Nehru’s Legacy: Time to pay tribute

Hahaha...Good to see this liar is still fumbling with his bundle of prevarications! The Ahmadi Ismali cracker I tied to his tail is going to crackle for a long time.


I wonder : Why don`t all his well connected tribesmen go to Abdus Salam`s grave, in a long convoy of their expensive cars, and just restore his tombstone?

(Aside : He will start jumping around the word expensive cars, so I have highlighted well-connected).

#720
You`ve yet to explain why Jinnah demanded that Congress surrender its legislative majority in the executive and that non League Indian Muslims give up their right of representation in 1945 and 1946.
After that you have to explain why Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus were supposed to subject themselves to a Muslim League constitution when not only had Jinnah had always denied their right to have any say in creation of Pakistan but also when his party had just toppled a Unionist-Sikh-Congress coalition with so much violence that 30000 nonMuslims were in refugee camps by March 1947.
After that you have to explain why Congress is termed stupid because it did not to hand over to Muslim League an entire nonMuslim-majority state Assam and large areas of nonMuslim majority population in Punjab and Bengal (the total nonMuslim populations of these provinces were 6.7 million, 12 million and 27 million approx).
Then you have to explain why Congress is termed stupid not hand over a bulk of the Indian Army to Pakistani control while still paying for it and not only that yield control of defence and foreign affairs of their India to Pakistan until the time Pakistan decided to seccede.

Since you can`t explain these points, there is nothing more to be said.

santana, i read one book of history by k.s. lal based on your recommendation from bhratvani, and i must say it was one of the worst-written book. total waste of my good-money. i mean its ok to write opinianated history, but you got to make a good job of writing.

Certain Truths have been said by manto and certain untruths by the spin doctors of Nehru e.g. Ranjit.

Ok Ranjit Why did India let go of the Chittagong Hill Tracts in 1947 98% Hindu (Reangs) + Buddhist (Chakmas). What about the Hindu majority districts of Sindh and Karachi city. In contrast Mr Jinnah wrested the Muslim majority of district of Sylhet from India.

Partition was not any act of statesmanship by Nehru but a fait accompli he accepted unnerved by the violence unleashed by the league and a failure to be a man like Patel the sword will be met by the sword. This timidity was in full show in 1962 also.

The huge poverty that you see in this country and esp the environmental degradation and loss of water is a direct consequence of the stupid policies this criminal inflicted on India.

The progress this country has made is in spite of Nehru and his progeny not because of him. Hundreds of millions of Indians would have starved if it were not for the munifence of the americand who fed us with their surplus grain from 1953 till 1967 all because of these stupid policies. We have a 150 million fifth columnists the followers of that peadophile errand boy of the moon god.

Please keep on giving us intellectually dishonest arguements of the greatness of the motherland due to the that denationalised macaulayite thug lover of muslims, marxists and missionaries and Hindu self hater called Nehru. You are in the august company of a huge majority of charlatans who are afraid to speak the truth.

And before ANY OF YOU NEHRU LOVERS REPLY TO THIS POST GO TO bharatvani.org read Growth and Genesis of Nehruvianism and rebut anything said in this book with facts and logic.

Forget the rubbish Manto writes he is a liar like all his co religionists but try and see 1 truth he says 300 million of the poorest people in the world are our co citizens and are in such a shape DESPITE INDIA BEING THE SINGLE LARGEST RECIPIENT OF CIVIL FOREIGN AID IN THE WORLD FROM 1952 TO 1968, in 1 word Nehru

#734 by masanamuthu on January 12, 2007 6:03am PT


It is the rate of progress that matters.


manto has different standards for different things...If Azim Premji became a billionaire many times over, it`s because he has a hindu sounding last name and his father was rich anyway...

#731 by Mantolives on January 12, 2007 5:46am PT


Ahmadi community in Pakistan has 100% literacy rate.... what does that tell you?


Indian women have opportunities to make a name for themselves and be newsmakers, like Indra Nooyi and Kiran Shaw...

Paki women have no such opportunities..they`re reduced to, in the words of el-presidente, getting themselves raped and getting canadian visas...you need to be a mukhtaran mai to become a newsmaker in pakiland...

perhaps, as the father of two girls, you should focus on creating opportunities for paki women rather than be obsessed what 2 dead people said...

Dalit CMs etc have made no difference mind you to the general state of Dalits... Ahmadi community in Pakistan has 100% literacy rate.... what does that tell you?

It is the rate of progress that matters. You forgot from where both the Dalits and Ahmadiyas started in the first place. while it upward for Dalits it is downward for Ahmadiyas (Pakistani Dalit Muslims who are not allowed into their holy mosques from the day when religion column was introduced..).. Agree??

Right now the main man behind the ruling coalition PML Q is Tariq Aziz who is an Ahmadi...

Also the woman behind the ruling military general is an Ahmadi.. that explains the 7 years of peace and efforts to remove the religion column. :-)

Re: # 730

Ayyappa Deeksha was were tough. Even some Christians and Muslims take it. You are doing it for 4 years?!!

Retired Chief Justice AN Ahmadi could be an Ahmadi. Any idea?

Harish Mian...

Manzoor Wattoo was a chief minister of Punjab no less as recently as 1997... Lets not forget Pakistan`s most famous Foreign Minister and Jinnah`s right hand man Zafrullah Khan was Ahmadi... and Pakistanis like M M Ahmad and Dr. Abdus Salam held high cabinet level posts .... Right now the main man behind the ruling coalition PML Q is Tariq Aziz who is an Ahmadi...

Dalit CMs etc have made no difference mind you to the general state of Dalits... Ahmadi community in Pakistan has 100% literacy rate.... what does that tell you? You won`t find an Ahmadi who doesn`t get by alright. We do have problems ... I have pointed them out myself... but none as severe as the discrimination that is rampant in your country.

#726 by Mantolives

Secondly... my father`s family have never faced any social problems in Pakistan but are highly prosperous and successful.

I can show you hundreds and thousands of Dalits who are highly successful and prosperous (some of them are right here on Chowk as well), we`ve even had a Dalit president and numerous CMs (have you ever had at least an Ahmadi Chief Minister, let alone PM/President?) yet I`m not so deluded that I`d deny that they face serious problems in India. So please tell us, what your point is.

The website I mentioned carries real stories of atrocities against Ahmadis from reputed sources such as Dawn, Daily Times (the paper you claim to work for), Jang, Nawa-i-Waqt, etc., yet here we have you plainly denying that any such thing happens in that utopia called Pakistan, on the basis that your dad never faced any ``social problems`` (whatever that means!) and owns ``large houses and expensive cars``. If it weren`t such a pathetic defense, it would be downright laughable.

# 720

Master Tara Singh (the sikh leader) had admitted in an interview before his death in 1967 ,that the decision to drive out all muslims was taken only after the slaughter of 3000 sikhs in the rawalpindi district in march 1947 by muslim leaguers. Sikhs knew that Jinnah wanted the whole Punjab & he would make all kinds of offers(?) to avoid the division of Punjab.
But no sikh was willing to TRUST Jinnah. It was decided to evacuate/withdraw all the sikhs/hindus from western most punjab(rawalpindi sector). But the problem aroused as to where they should be rehabilated. They had no idea as to where exactly the border line would be drawn. They simply had to rehabilated in those areas where sikhs/hindus were in complete majority. what about the lands/property(immovable assets) which they had to leave behind ? A way had to be found to replace them .

The only practical solution was to drive out the muslims from eastern punjab by all possible means. And it was executed with all the might , that sikhs could muster. Afterall it was a life & death matter for them. Sword was met by Sword. The chain reaction that it triggered , engulfed the entire punjab.

Jinnah & ML leaders did not expect this development & all its unexpected side effects.

Manto is crying over what they as muslims lost.

PS: I am travelling and I`ll read your comments later.

Re: # 725

Masanamuthu,

The 1953 riots was a stunt by the establishment to create a pretext for the removal of the Muslim League ministry and were the result of Maududi`s bakwas. However ... you must know that the Khawaja Nazimuddin`s Muslim League government responded valiantly by crushing Jamaat-e-Islami and putting an end to the riots.. and Pakistan`s judiciary passed the death sentence on Maududi, though it was later commuted... unfortunately.

While it is absolutely ridiculous the way in 1980s ... in Zia time, the 1974 amendment, wrong as it was, became the convenient stick to beat Ahmadis with... the situation has considerably improved. The laws brought uncontitutionally by Zia vis a vis posing as a Muslim... may exist... but I have never come across any of my relatives... all with Muslim names and all of whom very religiously publish Quranic ayats on cards that they send out to everyone... being arrested under them.

For the last 7 years... the government has always stood firmly against any such stunts.

Dear Harish mian,

The problem with you is that you are unable to understand that some of us do not adopt the faith of our parents because we may disagree with them. Had it been for any desire to hide my faith... I wouldn`t be mentioning my Ahmadi origins to begin with.

For one thing- but not the least-... I do not wish my irreligiousity to be attributed to my Ahmadi origins since my anti-religion views or liberalism is the anti-thesis of Ahmadi understanding of Islam. Yet some narrow minded sunnis might point to me and say- he speaks against Islam (not that I do) because he is an Ahmadi...

Secondly... my father`s family have never faced any social problems in Pakistan but are highly prosperous and successful. That should tell you something. Petty politics and manipulation by a military dictator means little, when you compare with the success of the Ahmadi community in Pakistan ... if there is a God, he sure loves them...

I am not being dishonest. Infact you are by hiding behind Ahmadi issue to hide your problems. While hundreds of millions of Indians are considered untouchable and therefore worthy to be thrown out of villages in India.... the constitutionally ``non-Muslim`` community of my father owns large houses and expensive cars in Pakistan.

While... the 1980s revivalism under General Zia-ul-Haq strengthened the same religious parties who had opposed Pakistan, the truth is that all religious parties have been forced to reconcile their religious ideas with the existence of the Pakistani nation state... for example Mullahs are opposed to women in politics and yet they are forced to field women candidates and they are also forced to fight elections like any other politicians...
Similarly... the Islamic ideological content today is forced to compete with Saba beauty soap and other capitalist ``monsters`` they hate... Israr Ahmed`s time on ARY Asia is just before Talking Divas ... last week`s topic: Gay Pakistanis coming out.

So in a way.. despite the bad rep ... much of what was aspired to has been achieved... though, the long term trends would only be recognised by a historian looking back with the 20/20 hindsight.


Why are you fooling yourself with some cosmetic stuff?.. Let`s ignore the non-Muslims in Pakistan. Take your (or rather your dad`s) community`s case. Don`t you agree that their situation is not improving and rather worsening?. Zia`s period was from late 70s. But wasn`t it 1974 when they were officially declared non-Muslims and in 1953, riots against them for the first time. I was thinking through the necessity of having a religion column in passports and read that they were introduced to prevent the Ahmadiyas from going to Hajj. What happened to the ``enlightened`` proposal from Musharraf to remove it?. Do you know of any of your Ahmadiya relatives going to Hajj of late?. Their case looks similar to the case of Dalits being denied entry into temples. I also read that it is legally a crime for an Ahmadiya to greet people in a Muslim way in Pakistan . Is that true?? From countercurrents.org

..
Ahmadis, who number between 3 and 4 million in Pakistan, are prevented by law from engaging in the full practice of their faith. Pakistan’s constitution declares members of the Ahmadi religious community to be “non-Muslims,” despite their insistence to the contrary. Barred by law from “posing” as Muslims, Ahmadis may not call their places of worship “mosques,” worship in non-Ahmadi mosques or public prayer rooms which are otherwise open to all Muslims, perform the Muslim call to prayer, use the traditional Islamic greeting in public, publicly quote from the Quran, or display the basic affirmation of the Muslim faith. It is also illegal for Ahmadis to preach in public, to seek converts, or to produce, publish, and disseminate their religious materials.