Nehru’s Legacy: Time to pay tribute

#806 by devkant

“just like people have lost count of the number of minorities who were killed and driven away from pakistan. there?”
#815 by devkant

“for any mass scale attack, you need to have mass scale minorities.”

How these two statements gel?

#818,
I am sure minority numbers are increasing in India after all ``Hum panch hum Pachees`` has not come about from the thin air... In fact, Minority numbers are on the increase in India like the the rest of the population but percentages are pretty static.

Minority numbers in Pakistan are not decreasing but the percentages are. Now do you understand this statement?

``i am sure you can back this claim with proofs.``

Pakistani Census is on the net look it up...

i always used to think that mushy for all his faults at least freed the press in pakistan. but i guess i am wrong.

rgds,

devkant.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007 01 15 story_15-1-2007_pg3_1

Not such a free press

The South Asia Free Media Association (SAFMA) has put together a report on the freedom of the media in South Asia. But what concerns us here is the section on Pakistan. The country topped the list for abductions and killings of journalists during the past year. The tribal areas have been turned into no-go areas for journalists and the situation in Balochistan and interior Sindh remains quite dangerous for journalists.

In 2006 four journalists were killed while performing their professional duties. Mr Hayatullah, who was abducted in December 2005 allegedly by intelligence agencies in Waziristan for an expose, was found dead on June 16, sending out signals of personal risk to other journalists. Mr Munir Ahmed Sangi, a photographer of Sindhi-language daily Kawish, was shot dead while covering a clash between two tribes in Larkana on May 29. In Dera Ismail Khan, Maqbool Hussain Siyal, district correspondent of the Online News Agency, was gunned down by unidentified assailants on his way to meeting a PPP leader on September 14. The fourth killing was that of Malik Muhammad Ismail, editor of Pakistan Press International (PPI) Islamabad.

This year has started ominously too. Two days ago, Makhdoom Mohammad Rafiq, chief editor of Sindhi newspaper Nijaat, was killed by unidentified men, apparently in a dispute over property, in Khairpur.

According to SAFMA, intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies are quick to kidnap and harass journalists who breach their red lines. Intelligence agencies abducted Abdul Aziz Lasi, bureau chief of the Urdu-language daily Intikhab, from Hub because he took pictures of Chinese engineers killed in firing on the same day. While not all of the deaths and abductions were carried out by the state, too many incidents of very clear state involvement have come to the fore. This is not a good sign for the times ahead and the government must recommit itself to freedom of expression in the country.

Foreign journalists too are coming in the line of fire. Ms Carlotta Gall of the New York Times was roughed up by intelligence agents in Quetta a couple of months ago despite the fact that she had a valid visa to visit the province. Her Pakistani photographer Akhtar Soomro got a worse deal. This is a shameful precedent. How can we now expect the American media to be sympathetic to this regime if it too is at risk from the regime’s goons? So much for the ‘image of Pakistan’ that General Pervez Musharraf is trying to build. Clearly, some people are more loyal than the King and they are the ones who are harming not just his cause but that of Pakistan too. They must be corralled. *

HP...forget the bonded labour one. that was not for you, but only for queen cut and paste aisha.

``In 1951, that number was 400K so what do you think how 400k became 2.5 mil.? ``

i am sure you can back this claim with proofs.

of course you could not see and read the links that point to the increasing minority population in india. selective reading and knowledge is nothing new from you pakistanis and you are just following the great traditions of your people.

rgds,

devkant.

p.s.
i do not know about your census, but indian census is fairly reliable data.....there will always be some loopholes which i am fair enough to admit.

Re: # 795

Ranjit:

Interesting analysis.

Punjabi Muslims have very interesting sociology. A friends father, retired brig. from Indian army had a retired lt. gen. from Pakistani army as colleague in Libya about 20 years ago. The brigadier sahib narrated an interesting observation that the general made that Punjabi Muslims before partition were mercenaries, they always provided people to fight be for hindu kings, afghans, moghuls or recently british. They rarely ruled or built their own kingdom, they accepted land grant and share of revenue with other central authority. It could be for this reason they did not force conversion, but were just happy to be head in their own way in a pecking order.

I think Jiziya was a very potent to force a change, especially those who reached certain level of wealth through trading, as agriculture was mainly with Muslim Punjabis through land grant. For them converting to Islam must have been very attractive. Also, another force was Pirs to counter pandits. V. S. Naipaul in his book Beyond Belief writes how pandits words were used in Sindh and Punjab to kill them and install Pirs as replacements of God`s men. If the conversion was forced then chain reaction would not have stopped. If your point on equality is true, then African slaves would not be converted.

Devkant,

True that mostly I ignore your posts as there is nothing in them to read. I went back and looked at the post you mentioned.

There are 2.5 million Hindus in Sindh now. In 1951, that number was 400K so what do you think how 400k became 2.5 mil.?

After reading your both posts I am not sure you are worth the effort to go into the whole nine yards with you. so first prove any mass scale murder of minorities in the current Pakistan and especially of Hindus. And we move forward from there…

The links in you post # 173 you so proudly pointed out don’t mention any mass scale murder of Hindus in Pakistan…

One link deals with bonded labor…Are you saying there is no child and bonded labor in India?
The other link is to Pakistani population, what is that you want me look?

``#807 by HP on January 14, 2007 11:44pm PT
Devkant,

``isn`t the percentage of minorities in pakistan decreasing while in india``

Prove it! ``

gawd....you are so bludy pathetic. you are so unaware of your own country. check out my post #173 addressed to the queen of cut and paste - aisha.

after this post she has not returned to this board.

``Also prove any mass scale attacks on any minority in Pakistan after the partition riots. Cite one example of the scale of barbarianism that was seen in Gujarat... ``

for any mass scale attack, you need to have mass scale minorities. where do they exist in your pakistan. show me...show us all infact. this is one info we all wanna know. also go back by about a 100 posts and see stuff posted by vagabond and others. you will see plenty of stuff of how well you guys treat minorities.

#809 by ranjit on January 14, 2007 11:49pm PT
silly me. i should have known that pakistanis need someone to curse and kill for their faults. if not hindus and christians, the ahmedis, shias etc etc will also do. my apologies.

rgds,

devkant.

Anil,
I call him Sindhi.....He is my Sindhi brother a little misguided though... Sindhis are not communal. You are a Sindhi first and anything else later...

Ranjit is a little misguided after living in Delhi with Upians....

Re: # 805

HP & Ranjit:

Why don`t you call each other Sindhi?

Dada!

Don`t hide behind the Indian census..we know how censuses are done in both countries...

If census is the criteria, then go and check Pakistani census too...

HP sain,

(Prove it! )

As far as the indian part if concerned, you can get it from the Census of India. www.censusindia.net

(Pakistanis are actually creating new minorities....Ahmedi were not a minority before the partition....Give the credit where it is due..... )

LOL. Maybe in due course add some more, Ismailis, Bohras, Shias, Barelvis, Deobandis, Ahl-e-Hadith etc.

Regards

#806 by devkant

``just like people have lost count of the number of minorities who were killed and driven away from pakistan. ``


Also prove any mass scale attacks on any minority in Pakistan after the partition riots. Cite one example of the scale of barbarianism that was seen in Gujarat...

Re:devkant#806

[..talk for your self....isn`t the percentage of minorities in pakistan decreasing while in india increasing?????..]

Devkant, what are you talking about? With the ahmedis first and now the shias, minority percentage is growing every day in Pakistan. ;-) I even heard that they are fighting about sub-sects these days, barelvis vs. deobandis amongst Sunnis. Soon you may see yet another minority. He he!!

#806 by devkant

Pakistanis are actually creating new minorities....Ahmedi were not a minority before the partition....Give the credit where it is due.....

Devkant,


``isn`t the percentage of minorities in pakistan decreasing while in india``


Prove it!

``#796 by HP on January 14, 2007 11:06pm PT
People have lost count of number of Gujarats in India since the partition.... ``

indeed....just like people have lost count of the number of minorities who were killed and driven away from pakistan.

talk for your self....isn`t the percentage of minorities in pakistan decreasing while in india increasing?????

rgds,

devkant.

#803 by ranjit

At least I have no interest in lying about things that never happened.... But I Do agree that Hindus are the most noble people on the face of the earth. In fact, it pains me to call them Hindu...I should just call them saints....