Aparna Pande January 3, 2007
#1 Posted by Naqshbandi on January 3, 2007 10:48:10 am
I once read Wolpert`s biography of Nehru. One line has stayed with me for ever: Harrovian Pandit Nehru once remarked, ``I am the last Englishman to rule India!``
That says it all. But, to give the devil his due, he was a very good ruler for India. His land reforms which targeted the nawabs and maharajahs were a masterstroke.
That says it all. But, to give the devil his due, he was a very good ruler for India. His land reforms which targeted the nawabs and maharajahs were a masterstroke.
#2 Posted by Urstruly on January 3, 2007 10:58:16 am
I personally admire Nehru as a politician and a leader; his acute hatered for Muslims and Pakistan not withstanding.
#3 Posted by KaalChakra on January 3, 2007 11:32:47 am
Aparna
Do you also believe that Jinnah created Pakistan with the help of his typewriter and dog called Nehru?
Try developing a less elistist view of history (without going overboard and all `subaltern` on us).
Nehru was indeed a great man (that`s why we should feel free to abuse him, whenever that is necessary to move on to the next stage of development. Our abuses will not hurt him).
Do you also believe that Jinnah created Pakistan with the help of his typewriter and dog called Nehru?
Try developing a less elistist view of history (without going overboard and all `subaltern` on us).
Nehru was indeed a great man (that`s why we should feel free to abuse him, whenever that is necessary to move on to the next stage of development. Our abuses will not hurt him).
#4 Posted by avkrishna on January 3, 2007 11:40:54 am
Sorry to say, Nehru, however well intentioned he may be, has a mixed record with more negatives
His biggest achievements, as you pointed out are his contributions to the sustaining of
Democracy in India.
He also deserves a huge credit for the higher education and research institutions..
Personally, I would like to absolve him for the low rate of growth till 90`s as well as the mess of Public Sector. He started them with good intentions. Also there was healthy rate of growth in his first two terms. But things have quickly become worse from then onwards.
Also, dont give him credit for the Agri revolutions as well as large English speaking population. The former happened only when we faced an acute shortage of grain production. The latter happened due to British rule..
Non Alignment was another utopian, rightfully trashed, idea...
But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with Muslims which led to this Psuedo Secularist state of affairs in India.. We are now doomed to deal with this menace of Islamic fundamentalism..
Rgds,
Avkrishna
His biggest achievements, as you pointed out are his contributions to the sustaining of
Democracy in India.
He also deserves a huge credit for the higher education and research institutions..
Personally, I would like to absolve him for the low rate of growth till 90`s as well as the mess of Public Sector. He started them with good intentions. Also there was healthy rate of growth in his first two terms. But things have quickly become worse from then onwards.
Also, dont give him credit for the Agri revolutions as well as large English speaking population. The former happened only when we faced an acute shortage of grain production. The latter happened due to British rule..
Non Alignment was another utopian, rightfully trashed, idea...
But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with Muslims which led to this Psuedo Secularist state of affairs in India.. We are now doomed to deal with this menace of Islamic fundamentalism..
Rgds,
Avkrishna
#5 Posted by arjun2 on January 3, 2007 11:56:30 am
Nehru believed in economic autarky. A belief in Fabian socialism
He was a commie/socialist rat..the deader, the better...
#6 Posted by wiseguyin on January 3, 2007 12:22:28 pm
Re: # 2
> I personally admire Nehru as a politician and a leader; his acute hatered for
> Muslims and Pakistan not withstanding.
Turly, your jaat is truely pathetic ...... :D
> I personally admire Nehru as a politician and a leader; his acute hatered for
> Muslims and Pakistan not withstanding.
Turly, your jaat is truely pathetic ...... :D
#7 Posted by soysauce on January 3, 2007 1:13:38 pm
The spectacle of what is called religion, or at any rate organized religion, in India and elsewhere, has filled us with horror, and I have frequently condemned it and wished to make a clean sweep of it.
I want nothing to do with any religion concerned with keeping the masses satisfied to live in hunger, filth, and ignorance. I want nothing to do with any order, religious or otherwise, which does not teach people that they are capable of becoming happier and more civilized, on this earth, capable of becoming true man, master of his fate and captain of his soul. To attain this I would put priests to work, also, and turn the temples into schools.
-Nehru
I want nothing to do with any religion concerned with keeping the masses satisfied to live in hunger, filth, and ignorance. I want nothing to do with any order, religious or otherwise, which does not teach people that they are capable of becoming happier and more civilized, on this earth, capable of becoming true man, master of his fate and captain of his soul. To attain this I would put priests to work, also, and turn the temples into schools.
-Nehru
#8 Posted by nasah on January 3, 2007 1:56:43 pm
Re: # 4
``But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with Muslims.....``(avkrishna)
what a `failure`!.......:)
``But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with Muslims.....``(avkrishna)
what a `failure`!.......:)
#9 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 3, 2007 2:38:41 pm
{``He was polite to friend and foe. He never rigged elections or tried to have any opposition member or party assassinated or put in jail. He respected the views of others – there is a complete set of volumes which contain the letters he used to write to the chief ministers of various provinces asking for their opinions on various matters, even those related to foreign policy.``}
Aparna,
A well-written and fitting tribute to a great man - secularism, democracy, humility, persistence, and a stubborn commitment to principles are this leader`s permanent legacy for the united, strong, and confident India that owes Nehru so much.
I totally disagree with Urstruly about his baseless remarks labeling Nehru as anti-Muslim. In fact, culturally speaking he was more Muslim than the majority of the Muslim politicians from either India or Pakistan - present day included.
Aparna,
A well-written and fitting tribute to a great man - secularism, democracy, humility, persistence, and a stubborn commitment to principles are this leader`s permanent legacy for the united, strong, and confident India that owes Nehru so much.
I totally disagree with Urstruly about his baseless remarks labeling Nehru as anti-Muslim. In fact, culturally speaking he was more Muslim than the majority of the Muslim politicians from either India or Pakistan - present day included.
#10 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 3, 2007 2:48:03 pm
#2 {``I personally admire Nehru as a politician and a leader; his acute hatered for Muslims and Pakistan not withstanding.``}
Urstruly Sahib,
Obviously my friend, you have overdozed on a steady diet of Paki propaganda that drives you to hate all Hindus (including those who have been consistently friendly with Muslims). In reality, Nehru represented the interests of Muslims much better than Jinnah and Ghoolam Mohammad and Ayyub Khan and Yahya Khan and Mujibur Rahman and Zia ul Haq and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir and Nawaz Sharif, and yes, Mushy Mushy Mush Mush. Please try to be fair.
Urstruly Sahib,
Obviously my friend, you have overdozed on a steady diet of Paki propaganda that drives you to hate all Hindus (including those who have been consistently friendly with Muslims). In reality, Nehru represented the interests of Muslims much better than Jinnah and Ghoolam Mohammad and Ayyub Khan and Yahya Khan and Mujibur Rahman and Zia ul Haq and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir and Nawaz Sharif, and yes, Mushy Mushy Mush Mush. Please try to be fair.
#11 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 3, 2007 2:52:06 pm
Nehru`s biggest mistake was not realizing the beneficial effects of the Craven A`s. Had he been a bit smarter he would have allowed the Cravens to take their toll and the inevitable TB would have solved the partition nonsense once and for all.
#12 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 3, 2007 2:57:19 pm
#7, {``I want nothing to do with any religion concerned with keeping the masses satisfied to live in hunger, filth, and ignorance. I want nothing to do with any order, religious or otherwise, which does not teach people that they are capable of becoming happier and more civilized, on this earth, capable of becoming true man, master of his fate and captain of his soul. To attain this I would put priests to work, also, and turn the temples into schools. - Nehru``}
Soysauce,
Simply brilliant and obviously spoken from great personal experience on the part of this freedom fighter from UP - a true jauhar, indeed.
Soysauce,
Simply brilliant and obviously spoken from great personal experience on the part of this freedom fighter from UP - a true jauhar, indeed.
#13 Posted by KaalChakra on January 3, 2007 3:01:55 pm
Soyasauce
Every one should read at least some works of Nehru before they become old and cynical. Whatever traces of idealism stay on are bound to leave a transformative impact...no matter what happens to mess things up later in life.
Every one should read at least some works of Nehru before they become old and cynical. Whatever traces of idealism stay on are bound to leave a transformative impact...no matter what happens to mess things up later in life.
#14 Posted by KaalChakra on January 3, 2007 3:21:07 pm
Not just Craven A`s, Nehru really imagined that he could get all Indians - Hindus and Muslims included - out of their destructive habits and mindsets, because as a rationalist he couldn`t imagine any other way. That `why-can`t-other-people-be-like-me?` self confidence really limited his appeal.
#15 Posted by nasah on January 3, 2007 3:42:06 pm
``But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with`` -- the Chineoa...``
But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with`` -- the immoral non recognition of freedom fighters like Mangal Panday, Bakht Khan, Bhagat Singh, and Subhash Bose....
``But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with`` -- the infrastructure for Oxen Cart``
``But his biggest of the biggest failur, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with Hindus and Muslims defecating along the railway lines -- with their crappy Hindu Caste butts and the Muslim peeing Personal laws -- for the whole world to see and laugh at.``
my dear aparna, my monday morning quaterback -- ``India’s success at democracy can be laid at the feet of`` -- NOT -- ``its very decentralized political systems before the British era`` -- which was decadent fuedal way backward and chaotic -- and NOT because -- ``India’s political elite, especially Nehru, deserve credit `too` `` -- ``India’s success at democracy can be laid -- exclusively at the feet of`` -- its very first Prime Minister Jawahar Lal Nehru...
....ah those heady days of -- Freedom at last! -- where have those flowers gone!
HazaroN saal nurgis apni baynoori pe ro tee hai -- kaheeN tub jaa kay hota hai chaman meiN deedawar paida.....period.
But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with`` -- the immoral non recognition of freedom fighters like Mangal Panday, Bakht Khan, Bhagat Singh, and Subhash Bose....
``But his biggest failure, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with`` -- the infrastructure for Oxen Cart``
``But his biggest of the biggest failur, along with Gandhi`s, is this fanciful idea of peaceful coexistence with Hindus and Muslims defecating along the railway lines -- with their crappy Hindu Caste butts and the Muslim peeing Personal laws -- for the whole world to see and laugh at.``
my dear aparna, my monday morning quaterback -- ``India’s success at democracy can be laid at the feet of`` -- NOT -- ``its very decentralized political systems before the British era`` -- which was decadent fuedal way backward and chaotic -- and NOT because -- ``India’s political elite, especially Nehru, deserve credit `too` `` -- ``India’s success at democracy can be laid -- exclusively at the feet of`` -- its very first Prime Minister Jawahar Lal Nehru...
....ah those heady days of -- Freedom at last! -- where have those flowers gone!
HazaroN saal nurgis apni baynoori pe ro tee hai -- kaheeN tub jaa kay hota hai chaman meiN deedawar paida.....period.
#16 Posted by KaalChakra on January 3, 2007 4:17:17 pm
wow, nasah ji, you really think Nehru played that significant a role?
(Please treat that as a serious question. I value your opinions enormously.)
(Please treat that as a serious question. I value your opinions enormously.)
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