I, Consumer

There should be a message sent to Olwell Milk Company on making such a stupid ad and giving it colors of glamourous living. That milk brand is just a status symbol more than a necessity: For all fools who think milk will make pretty then :P

``Agar doodh peenay say koi Gora ho sakta tou Bhains ka katta duniya mai.n sab say Gora hota``

Therefore stop becoming fodder of these ads and push these companies to show their active ingredient i-e Formaline that is now a key core preservative in these tin keeping the white liquid working unspoiled for months. This is a harmless chemical that remains undissolved in a human body for more than length of person`s life. In Pakistan in order to meet the demand and supply equation the multinational corrupts in milk products is at its beam. This issue should be bared in public and these companies should be accountable for risking life of Pakistanis.

Re: # 134

This is a Harmful Chemical that remains un-dissolved in body of Humans with its intake for years and is dangerous to cause many chronic diseases as cancers. The milk companies just advertise their UHT treatment of milk as this thing keeps the milk alive but you can yourself put all brands of milk`s samples to a laboratory test and will find presence of heavy amount of formalin in it. This is against international standards and laws but the multi-millionare companies are hiding this to be a part of public awareness.
People should know what are they taking in and how much worse it can make the situation. The liquid that can be kept in the shelves for months is the most harmful thing to be taken. These milk companies for many years have been showing anti-campaigns against the milk hawkers that they are dirty, the pots are uncleaned. But believe me a dilute milk is far far better then formalin-injected milk pack. Their strategies is to make public away from street hawkers of dairy milk supplies as to make their market exceed. And they have been successful in it. Now everyday you hear a new brand making its way in market. How is this possible where the cattles are unable to produce to meet the requirements of the state. But Olwell or Good Milk you will find in the front shelves of a Dukan in a remote area of Pakistan besides a candy product.
This industry boom is alarming because it has roots of corrupt minds. This message should be in public and the health sector should do something about it. We dont want our generations to be ruined by hands of these capitalists.
Stop having these milk packs and spread this message in masses...

Farheen ! If u see the add of Olwell its not just like u described

`` a guy standing at his window, a pretty girl stepping out of her limo and some people working out in the gym``.

There is some thing more in this add. Being a marketer & advertising person, we should see & decide, what are the values & norms exist in the consumer world.

There is a HOT debate is continue on the marketing circles, regarding Olwell milk, kindly review one point of view in attached article. A MUST READ STRORY

http://www.womenrightsinislam.com/OLWELLTVC.htm

The dark/light , black/white, impure/pure , dirty/clean polarities are polarities that mould the collective conciousness of all the great religions and civilizations.
In the black world the white man was a devil. A white man looks like a ghost to those whose collective sensibilities reverse the value attached to the polarity of black/white to white/black and attach approbative sense to the polarity of blackness.
As I said , White or Islamist, Hence Beautiful!!!
There is no conection!!

masadi: snakes are animals. they are not hypocrites. you are welcome to call me a hypocrite if you are offended that i am not writing what you would like to see me write - but how dare you insult snakes or any other of God`s little creatures!!

snakes bite only so they can catch prey or in self-defense - unlike scum like you about whom the less said the better.

and stop reciting ``I am leaving on a jet plane`` as you board the plane. the airline staff will think you have been smoking something!!

#115, {``... white skin people are used to makeover a theme that our population is immune to believe. This skin color issue is as much expansive as of the industrial tactics of advertisments is concerned in a global way.
The more concerned thing is that our industry is only a producer of cosmetic soaps, some creams and mouthwashs and toothpastes. .. This Eid there was an acute shortage of many medicines in the drug stores that are life savers and gives relief to the infected diseases that are viral in this season. .... All these cosmetic havoc is just drifting our nation from major problems that needs to be engineered and taken care of.
We majority of us have no idea what to do if a product fails our satisfaction. Can we speak for our consumer rights in courts.
What are they giving us in the form of milk. Which active ingredient is letting a milk a perished entity to survive more than months unspoiled. However only tetra packaging doesnt do miracle. Are our kids taking poison. And the milk brands are increasing as our buffaloes are increasing every length of day. Of an estimate there are not enough cattles to give milk for Karachi itself. Nor there is enough fodder. Then how milk is flowing like in heaven. Why these multimillionare companies not argued by the nation. There is scarcity of pure milk in evey town of Pakistan then how these mills are making milk in first instance.

Advertisments targeting comes in second phase. We are not in any position to crrirtize a product from becoming a part of our surrounding. The companies will keep healing us with mouth watering creams and our tears by rose petal tissues. We will have a handsome pack of milk thinking it a best dairy product and will slowly converge to the absolute diseases of cancers, but thats already late. Our doctors are selling them for soap ads, cream ads as if there is no tomorrow for them. ``}


Chowk Staff,
Do I have to pay extra for the Chowk Subtitles Service?

#127, masadi sahib {``..on the other hand the hypocrite/snake tahmed believes the same, even more strongly than hamid, but he hides it behind other attributes of being beautiful and lo and behold he applies all those fine attributes moreso to the white man/woman than to anyone else. ...and the snakes and lying hypocrites like tahmed...``}

Masadi Sahib,
I like your taste in identify reptilian hippopotami. :) May Allah bless you for your clarity of thought and accuracy in observation. Thanks.

As a short, dark and ugly dravidian, i feel better knowing hamidm2 has a daughter that looks like me :)

zeemax writes <<< Hamidm has a hell of an inferiority complex. Skin colour has nothing to do with attractiveness ... rather it is the grace, poise, bone structure, carriage, personality,and so forth which is attractive to either sex >>>

Zeemax mian don`t be so hard on hamid 2pack, atleast he is being honest in telling us about the object of his worship, he links beauty with being white....on the other hand the hypocrite/snake tahmed believes the same, even more strongly than hamid, but he hides it behind other attributes of being beautiful and lo and behold he applies all those fine attributes moreso to the white man/woman than to anyone else.

The white race has been the dominant agenda setter for a while now, and they explicity and implicity impose a relationship of superior/subordinate on the races they rule over in order to colonize minds and souls....that is the reason why white appears the `most beautiful` to the colonized minds and the aspects of the attributes you mention that appear `beautiful`` are linked more with being white or like-white. Few have the good fortune to rescue themselves from the belly of this beast and the human wasteland aka America, after which colonized minds are destroying their true personalities to imitate their masters. You should feel sorry for them, go easy on the poor souls, these rank racists, the explicit truthful ones like hamid and the snakes and lying hypocrites like tahmed...

I don`t believe in this consumerism driving economies. Well at least not for ever...automation is driving the production compenent directly attributable to humans to diminimus relevancy. In another 100 years, we are not going to be making anything..we will be buying and selling things made by machines and speculating on their derivatives.

#120 by saminasha2 on January 8, 2007 7:51am PT


I think its a bit bizarre that you are so threatened by Black Civilizations that you half wittedly reduce the Black world to a female body part


I do the same for whites, orientals and other asians...Am I threatened by those civilizations too?

Re: # 124

that is a question for Dr. Sohail, Arjun, not this board....

Akheya kise ne Majnoo kuN,
teri Laila rang di kali.
Ageyon Majnun Jatt farmaiya,
teri akh na wekhan Aali.
Chitte verk Koran de jitay siyahe rang di kali.
Akhe Ghulam Farid, jithe dil adrape,
hove rang di gori ya kali

#119 Will there be a test on this poem? Are we to memorize it? Should we also be able to parse the sentences??

Re: # 121

have a go at the sonnet :)

Stukay,

I think its a bit bizarre that you are so threatened by Black Civilizations that you half wittedly reduce the Black world to a female body part, the achievement and history of all African Americans to your brief experience at a low wage job. The first claim made is mind boggling in its ignorance and the second claim is a facetious and pernicious attempt at the model minority myth. Especially since you werent truly in the same socio-eco bracket of the community in which you were laboring.

The busy girl buys beauty
The pretty girl buys style
And the simple girl buys
What she`s told to buy
And sees her world
Through the brightly lit eyes
Of the glossy romance of fashion
Where she can learn...
Top tips for the gas cook
Successful secrets of a sexual kind
The daily drill for beautiful hair
And the truth about pain

What was Anna Ford wearing?
What did Angela Rippon say?
What will you do
When you wake up one morning
To find that God`s made you plain
In a beautiful person`s world?
And all those quick recipes
Have let you down
And you`re 20½ and not yet engaged
Will you go look for the boy who says
I love you let`s get married and have kids

The busy girl buys beauty
The pretty girl buys style
And the simple girl buys
What she`s told to buy
Through the brightly lit eyes
Of the glossy romance of fashion
Where she can learn...
Top tips for the gas cook
Successful secrets of a sexual kind
The daily drill for beautiful hair
In a mail order paradise...


Billy Bragg

#117 by arjun2

Hey .. thanks for the unexpected honour of not attacking Paks/Jehadis in this post ... how come? If you`ve turned a new leaf then perhaps we can have a conversation about consumerism ... otherwise it will end up in the same name calling.

#116 by zeemax on January 8, 2007 5:33am PT


consumerism PROVIDED the basic necessities of survival with dignity have been provided to all and sundry,


That`s a failed approach...consumerism boosts the economy and that is what makes it possible for the most vulnerable sections of society to get their basic needs...roti kapda aur makan...somebody had to make that bottle of shampoo...and that somebody probably needed bricks laid...which created opportunity for a bricklayer somewhere...

Author,

Thus ads set standards for things like success, beauty and other stuff. Now more than ever, people consider success to be a post paid connection and glamour to be locked into a bottle of shampoo.

Very well said. This is the crux of the matter and deepens the social divide between the haves and the have nots.

There`s nothing wrong with consumerism PROVIDED the basic necessities of survival with dignity have been provided to all and sundry, alongwith equal opportunity to aspire to attain further goodies. It is all a matter of use of resources. You can make capital goods first to generate further capital, or consumer goods to be consumed and add to the garbage heap. After all, how many brands of soap does one need? The aim is just to wash one`s stupid mug.

In short, consumerism is good for the fully developed countries with saturated capital industries, who need constant product differentiation and built-in obsolescence to create further demand, but poison for us folks who import paper clips from China.

Thanks for the article. I was too busy with Saddam (R.I.P) to read it earlier !

Beautiful, white skin people are used to makeover a theme that our population is immune to believe. This skin color issue is as much expansive as of the industrial tactics of advertisments is concerned in a global way.
The more concerned thing is that our industry is only a producer of cosmetic soaps, some creams and mouthwashs and toothpastes. We have no concerns in the health industry to have easily available medicines of chronic diseases. There are 1001 brands of soap that are claiming to remove the germs and safeguarding against diseases. I am sure teh old lifebouy can still serve the purpose if all the medicated soaps and their slogans go away. A cold cream with one brand name can smoothen skins. The whole psychy of dark people is played in the region where people are not aware that if they get sick they wont get medicine easily. This Eid there was an acute shortage of many medicines in the drug stores that are life savers and gives relief to the infected diseases that are viral in this season. But we know ``Shan Masala`` can cook everything that we think in mind. All these cosmetic havoc is just drifting our nation from major problems that needs to be engineered and taken care of.
We majority of us have no idea what to do if a product fails our satisfaction. Can we speak for our consumer rights in courts.
What are they giving us in the form of milk. Which active ingredient is letting a milk a perished entity to survive more than months unspoiled. However only tetra packaging doesnt do miracle. Are our kids taking poison. And the milk brands are increasing as our buffaloes are increasing every length of day. Of an estimate there are not enough cattles to give milk for Karachi itself. Nor there is enough fodder. Then how milk is flowing like in heaven. Why these multimillionare companies not argued by the nation. There is scarcity of pure milk in evey town of Pakistan then how these mills are making milk in first instance.

Advertisments targeting comes in second phase. We are not in any position to crrirtize a product from becoming a part of our surrounding. The companies will keep healing us with mouth watering creams and our tears by rose petal tissues. We will have a handsome pack of milk thinking it a best dairy product and will slowly converge to the absolute diseases of cancers, but thats already late. Our doctors are selling them for soap ads, cream ads as if there is no tomorrow for them.

sobia: on #112, just to clarify: i didnt mean to #112 the way it reads - hamidm and stuka are in fact two of the smartest and most decent people on chowk.

This is crazy. Hamidm has a hell of an inferiority complex. Skin colour has nothing to do with attractiveness ... rather it is the grace, poise, bone structure, carriage, personality,and so forth which is attractive to either sex. Now if Hamidm was to argue that all these characteristics are more to be found in the white races than any other, I would accept that as a genuine argument being based on limited personal experience. However, I would tell him (from anecdotal evidence, I hasten to add) that Ethiopian hookers in Dubai charge about three times as much as the Italians, and about ten times as much as white Russians, precisely for the qualities mentioned above.

Anyway ... let him continue with misinterpreting Tazuk-e-Baburi and Ghalib`s references to siah `o` sufaid.

#107 sobia: please dont generalize about desi men. all of us are not as stupid as we look. :-)

aslam #109: true. that is why in #110 i am inviting the hamidm and stuka to behold on the left side of the decimal, not on the right. :-)

stuka/hamidm: you are arguing on the right side of the decimal when you measure beauty with skin color. i am trying to direct your attention to the left side of the decimal by saying that good health, hygiene, character, personality, manners, intellect, physique and even mystique (i.e. where advertizing comes in) are far more important factors.

Thus: to take stuka`s example, the fact is that europe has been way ahead of africa and asia the past few centuries, and this is reflected in the overall character, health, intellect and so on. europeans have the reflected glory of a highly successful civilization, while nigerians do not. italians have the image of living la dolce vita (the sweet life), while nigerians are infamous across africa (and now around the world thanks to their sending emails claiming to have millions of dollars they wish to put in your bank account) as being crooks. is thisaccurate? of course not. italians had the mafia, while nigerians had the nobel prize winner wole soyinka.

the makers of lux beauty soap dont want you to know this. i am liberating you from the tyranny of the advertisers by inviting you to focus on the left side of the decimal.

tahmed
all i can say on on this subject of skin colour is; beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

Re:sobia#107

[..i never knew till i read these posts how many complexes desi men have about their skin colour. sad...]

Really? So prior to reading this article on chowk, you had no idea about desi obsessions with the fair skin? Heck not just desis, even ABCDs know this and practice it to the fullest in terms of their dating habits. So give me a break!!

i never knew till i read these posts how many complexes desi men have about their skin colour. sad.

``Then why are pakis attracted to goats?``

arjun,

for the same reason you`re attracted to pakis, you want to tie us to a tree, slice our necks, and savor our biryani, you just cant cuz it`s illegal, so let us have our goats and you can fantasize.

{``Ads promote and shape certain values. Fair&Lovely has been forever promoting the concept that only fair skin women have the best in life. ``}

Farheen,
Good article and you have made your point well. Despite what we Muslims, especially those from India and Pakistan, there is definitely a bias, even in Muslim rags, about the preference for fair skin. Just consider the matrimonials, where it is often stated:

``Proud Punjabi parents, settled in US since Civil War, seeking suitable match for tall, beautiful, and very fair 43 year old innocently divorced girl, no issue, looking for tall, handsome, and very fair Punjabi male doctor, never married, practising in the US, with own practice and solid Muslim values.``

#84 {``Are pathans men stupid that they let go of their superior genes and blue eyes and white skins to marry plain brown eyed, dark skinned panjabi women?``}


No one has even accused Pathans of being brilliant. Even much wiser men, e.g. Sardarjis, have been duped in Hira Mandi.

Tahmed Chacha likes his women the way he likes his coffee - black and strong.

#99 Stuka {``Actually, they were prized for the zenith of their booty rather than beauty..``}

Stuka,
No doubt. The sistas have the best booty.

Airport battles some Muslim cabbies

Thu Jan 4, 12:20 PM ET

Officials at Minneapolis-St. Paul International airport are proposing stiffer penalties — including suspension of an airport taxi license — to Muslim cab drivers who refuse service to passengers toting alcohol or service dogs.

But Hassan Mohamud, imam at Al-Taqwa Mosque of St. Paul and director of the Islamic Law Institute at the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, one of the largest Islamic organizations in the state, said asking Muslims to transport alcohol ``is a violation of their faith. Muslims do not consume, carry, sell or buy alcohol, and Islam also considers the saliva of dogs to be unclean, he said.

``Mohar, if there is ever an option for desis to change their race to white, how many desis will sign up? How many will sign up in the other direction? I rest my case (and hamidm`s case)...
``

HAHAHA...true.

Case in point, how many desis consider it a compliment if they are mistaken for Italian..how many desis consider it a compliement if they are mistaken for Nigerian?

``You need only to look at the great civilizations of Egypt, Mali, Songhai and Timbuktu to know that African women were valued in their cultures as the zenith of beauty, regardless of European conceptions of beauty. ``

Actually, they were prized for the zenith of their booty rather than beauty..

``........ unfortunately, grandpa gopinathe`s genes have played a cruel trick on me i will have start saving for dowry of a car, a bang olufsen music system and the like, in addition to the bajaj scooter ........
``

that is rather unfortunate..especially if you come from the right side of the border. Oh well, u can always marry her off to a Malabari Muslim...fairness is always relative..

Re:hamidm#87

[.........thanks for your support ........ unfortunately, grandpa gopinathe`s genes have played a cruel trick on me.......]

Hamidm unkil, where is Mrs. Hamidm from - gopinath or non-gopinath stock? Looks like you let your abbajan down. At least he improved the gene pool. You should have gone for a gori blonde or at least iranian/turkish types to build up on the good job that your abbajan did.

#92 by tahmed32 on January 7, 2007 6:33pm PT


paki paki...

now quit stalking me...

isn`t the popular saying amongst western females.......``once you go black, you never go back``

#91 wow. that was almost non-rubbish. and monkey man forgot to howl ``paki paki`` at the end.

#12 by malik99 on January 6, 2007 9:13am PT


The standard of beauty and power has been ingrained in our minds thanks to being colonized until only a few decades ago. By white men. Yes it is true that being a white male in today’s world is an invaluable asset. You can be of average smarts, but people in East Asia, South Asia and Africa will treat you like royalty.


So you measure your own worth by what others think of you...you might have made it in life but if a bunch of rednecks call you a n-word, then your self-worth in your own eyes is reduced?

That`s your inferiority complex...the real consequence of colonization..

#88 paki-obsessed monkey man is here!!

that was a great attempt at being funny!! keep it up, and another 100 years you may actually be able to tell a joke without forgetting the punch line.

#86 stuka: shoplifters, like the goods they shoplift, come in all colors.

ask hamidm about this pathan political leader`s white pathan wife and the nature of the goods she was caught shoplifting by one of Masadi`s Evil Empire Security Guards at a british department store (I would let you know the nature of the goods she shoplifted, but this is a family website....)

as for skin color, do you know how the term ``blue blood`` (which is how european nobility were referred to) came about? due to dark skinned moors being the head honchos in muslim spain. File this one under ``Questions Hamidm Failed to Answer`` along with other previously asked questions like the thriving business in tanning saloons and people risking skin cancer on beaches and so forth.

Re: # 89

tahmed,

..... give it a rest !......... the fact of the matter is that even though a pasty/pale white can be `improved` with sun tanning, it is still better than being as dark as sin ! ......... i know, i know, hazrat bilal was black and all that, but that`s what landed him in slavery in the firsty place ........ it is not a lot of fun being dark skinned - ask any j2ee slave from kerala ........

Re: # 94

.............or just ask arjun .......

#63 by malik99 on January 7, 2007 12:59pm PT


My observation is that opposites attract


Then why are pakis attracted to goats?

``)...if I were working at a Duane Reade, you`d better hope I was doing whatever I could to not hang myself.....``

Load of crap...Asians work in 7-11s all the time and still remain polite..heck, I used to work at Cumberland Farms where the bul of the clientele was food stamp carrying blacks who were also the biggest shop lifters..yet, we carried on..worked for an honest dollar. So do thousands of other Asian Americans especially from South Asia..

Oh yeah, on the looks, Malik99 and his ``colonial theories`` are a load of bunkum..dunno about Bangladeshi types but amongst us Punjabis fairer is better looking than dark skin...if u are the daddy of a dark skinned girl, better start saving for dowry of a car, a Bang Olufsen music system and the like..fathers of gori daughters can give a Bajaj scooter.

Re: # 86

stuka,

........ thanks for your support ........ unfortunately, grandpa gopinathe`s genes have played a cruel trick on me i will have start saving for dowry of a car, a bang olufsen music system and the like, in addition to the bajaj scooter ........

#83 ali: we need someone to sing ``springtime for Hitler`` on chowk too.

#79 It takes a village.....

Another attempt at reforming hamidm: your talk about superior ``pathan genes`` and inferior ``panjabi genes`` is a common pathan conceit that I noticed among some otherwise perfectly sensible pathans. A pathan guy married to a panjabi woman he met in a college in Lahore, now an ageing guy, talks the same way. He told me he was thrilled that his son picked a peshawar girl and not a lahore girl - and was a bit confused when i asked him if he had gone to pick a girl or a bakra. but anyway...

Despite all this talk of genetic superiority, pathan men marry panjabi women in droves and vice versa, and you are merely an example of the product of one such marriage. So what gives? Are pathans men stupid that they let go of their superior genes and blue eyes and white skins to marry plain brown eyed, dark skinned panjabi women? Are pathan women stupid for the same reason?

lot of puzzlement here.. perhaps you know the answer

5 years ago, almost to the date, a wise person had THIS to say about hamidm
some self gloss is in order here: none of you dumbos saw thru the nazi like I did :)

famous ``black`` people who are NOT black .......

it has always seemed rather odd to me that people always say that tiger woods is black - he is not !.......... as far as i am concerned, he is the best thai golfer in the world

.... and neither is tyra banks, halle barry, denzel washington or the grey-eyed harold ford ......... mike tyson ? definitely black ..........

........ look, the sooner you folks get over this confusion, the sooner you can figure out how to improve your gene pool ......... i will be eternally grateful to my father, a punjabi with a `wheatish` complexion and ordinary bania looks inherited from grandpa gopinath, for having the foresight to marry a pashtun with good durrani genes .......... it might not have done much for my intellect, but it certainly has saved me a lot of pain and suffering and allowed me to hold my head up high in public .........not to mention the anguish that other people would have had to suffer from looking at me across the dinner table ..........

......... and i am definitely not saying that all white people are good looking - there are people like prince charles, his sister, his wife and his cousin benny hill ........ but, even at their worst they are better on the eyes than a gaggle of gujjus who have been marrying their first cousins for ten generations

Re: # 79

you are one confused macaca... :)

Hamid Sahib,

Were none of Pakistan`s artists influenced by Shakespeare`s Dark Lady of the Sonnets? arguably the muse of his most profound work?


Dark as an Ethiope is high praise coming from the Bard:


``My mistress` eyes are nothing like the sun``


My mistress` eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips` red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damask`d, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak,--yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go,
My mistress when she walks, treads on the ground;
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.

Re: # 78

saminasha,

no, but here is what khushal khan khattak said about his love :

there is a boy across the river, whose bum is like a peach
alas i cannot swin

like the great khan, bard was a pervert !

PPl like blondes B/c they (blondes) are too dumb to know how they are exploited both as women and as objectified sex thing

Re:mohar#73

[... and I have no fascination for blondes... like I said - halley berry beats every white woman hands down... :)......]

Lahoulwilaquat (or a hindu version of that)!! This is like saying that you prefer immigrating to Sri Lanka instead of USA. :-)

Seriouly dude, dont give up on blondes. They are hard to attain but not impossible. ;-)

Re: # 76

Dude - I know it`s hard for you to believe, but I have no fascination for blondes... I like my woman the way I like my coffee - dark and delicious.... not bleached and bland... :)

Where is hamidm anyway?...

Most of the serial killers in America have been `white colored` ALSO

Why does everything on chowk have to be politically correct ???

Hamidm really has a point here and the way he has tried to explain it ``must`` impress all and sundry... (the comment about looking like gandhiji and talking a niece to bed had me laughing hysterically)...

And the point someone made about all these white people spending billions for a tan... the answer could be: ``the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence``... but the fact remains that when these people go out for a tan, they don`t actually want to come back looking like Kofi Annan or Condoleeza Rice...

Some people may like darker tones of skin - and everybody has a right to opinion - but conduct a survey any day of the week and white will well and truly come out on top.... and for heaven`s sake, white has got nothing to do with our colonial masters (who are, more often than not, pale-dead white), it`s fair skin that we`re talking about... Fair & Lovely does not get you an EU passport, it just gives you a fairer skin...

and coming back to the ``actual`` point of article... the ads are only intended to sell the products and (please) they also don`t have to be politically correct !!!

I don`t like the new Olwell`s ad much but the first ad for Olpers milk (btw Olpers is the ``parent`` milk of Olwell) was awesome... and the sheer `enormity` of the ad (with all the who`s who of Pakistani modelling industry) made me believe that this product must be good... mission accomplished....

and this flesh-flashing and stuff - it`s what the consumers demand and it`s a simple case of meeting their demands

P.S.: I am not white but I ain;t no Kofi Annan either...

P.S.A.: I don`t use Fair & Lovely

Re: # 72

Who said anything on chowk is politically correct?... political correctness and chowk are as far apart as possible...

Re:mohar#68

[..I don`t know... Hamidm, for sure, will be the first one to sign up... I will never do, I am fine with my brown skin, warts and all... :)

... what about you?... you signing up?...]

Yeah, yeah, we all know about desi pride and all that BS, even if it means giving up on being a C level exec in a corporation or bedding beautiful blondes. Now you will say that all that is possible being a desi, except that the probability is a hundredth as compared to being a white.

Anyway, speaking of racial transformation, here is a joke for u -

A young, hot, blonde guy finds a magic lamp. Upon rubbing it a genie appears. The genie gives him 3 wishes.

First the blond guy asks for ten million dollars and gets it. Then he asks for a beautiful blond girlfriend and he gets that too. Now he is totally confused about what else to ask for.

Finally he says, ``I am a Mechanical Engineering undergrad student and want a 4.0 GPA``. The genie says - ``Done!!``. And the blonde guy turns into a chinese. :-)

Re: # 70

And speaking of being an executive and bedding a blonde - I can be brown and still be an executive, just as numerous desis have been... and I have no fascination for blondes... like I said - halley berry beats every white woman hands down... :).... seriously, personally - I have always found desi women much more desirable than any other... in terms of color, beauty and personality... :)

that`s just me... now, you and hamidm go along and get blondes for yourselves...

Re: # 70

What ``desi pride``?... there is no such thing called ``desi pride``... all I am saying is - I am fine with being brown, with all the negatives goes with it... white race may be better than my race - so what?... that doesn`t mean I need/want to switch my race... I mean - given an option, would you switch your parents for ``better`` ones?... it`s that simple.... it has nothing to do with any ``pride``...

sri #66 human beings are notable for their lack of diversity biologically speaking. to the extent it exists, genetic diversity is in fact greatest among africans. as for beauty - ``Full many a flower is born to blush unseen, And waste its sweetness on the desert air”.

That smelly, fly infested, beggar woman with limbs grotesquely enlarged from elephantisis begging for a kenyan shilling could, under different circumstances, have been a beautiful phd scientist whom would even charm the socks of even a hamidm. Nothing in her genes has to do with the condition she is in.

saminasha: the things one learns at chowk!! i had to google to find out what this ``Duane Reade`` so I could reply without seeming ignorant. So, I see it is a pharmacy store. I remain ignorant of how Duane Reade relates to my post....even googling will not help me pretend I am not ignorant on that one, so please help.... :-(

#60 by scout(new)

`` you should go to Alabama and see ``white heaven`` up close and personal, the missing teeth and incest warm your heart really ``

That`s nitpicking man. Surely you don`t mean just because some rural american white are heavily inbred retards all white people are ugly. It is ``universally`` well known and accepted that inbreeding leads to ugliness. So no argument there.

The genetic diversity among white people is simply mind boggling. Starting from red-head Celtic to dark haired Mediterranian, you will find all kinds of hair, eyes and textures. And that is the kind of mix you will see in American cities.

Re:mohar

[...but I am not exactly in awe with whiteman`s skin color... white is just another color... :)...]

Mohar, if there is ever an option for desis to change their race to white, how many desis will sign up? How many will sign up in the other direction? I rest my case (and hamidm`s case)...

Re: # 65
[...if there is ever an option for desis to change their race to white, how many desis will sign up?...]

I don`t know... Hamidm, for sure, will be the first one to sign up... I will never do, I am fine with my brown skin, warts and all... :)

... what about you?... you signing up?

My observation is that opposites attract.........as verified by Paula Abdul’s song of early 90s.

I have seen white men drooling over oriental girls, white men drooling over Indian girls, Indian men drooling over white girls, African men drooling over white and oriental girls, and Latin men drooling over any thing that resembles a female.

As Thomas Friedman has promised us that world is becoming flatter in terms of opportunities for becoming successful, I suspect that remnants of colonial slavery like Hamidm are a dying breed. As economic success around the world makes backward caste people like Sri realize that material riches are not the exclusive domain of whites, they too will start taking pride in who they are....

It is a side effect of colonialism that associated in our minds that whiteness is associated with riches and power.... In this day and age, movies like James Bond 007 continue to reinforce this idea in our minds that only a white man has the intelligence, quick thinking, and spice in his personality to play with a girl`s heart and enemy`s dead body at the same time. Why is it that 007 character, where as diverse people as Sean Conrey and Daniel Craig have played that role, no black man has ever been offered that role?

But the day a black lead actor will play 007 is not very far. Until then, let hamidm be hamidm.

Re: # 63

true - there is always a fascination with what each of us consider as ``exotic``...

Hamidm seems to be really bad case of ``colonial`` hangover... his obsession with white skin just doesn`t make sense... I mean - hey, I appreciate white man for all his accomplishments and what not - but I am not exactly in awe with whiteman`s skin color... white is just another color... :)

I am in two minds about the concept of beauty. For example, someone here mentioned about Nandita das.. I find her very beautiful too. On the other hand, I see these goras and I feel... ohmigod, am I in heaven or something...

Re: # 55

you should go to Alabama and see ``white heaven`` up close and personal, the missing teeth and incest warm your heart really

Re: # 55

sri,

......... i know exactly what you are talking about ..... there ARE some, but very very few, south indians and even africans who are quite attractive - but an exception does not make the rule ........... iman, nandita and aishwariya are freaks of nature but anybody who goes looking for beauty in kerala or somalia is a fool - the chances are better in sweden ..........

....... and please accept my sincere sympathies for the condition you were born into ......... make sure that you marry a fair high-caste woman so that your children will be spared the ignominy ......... good luck

Re : hamdim2 #8, 11, 42, 43, 49

Some Pakistanis want to be Arabs, some white, some just anybody else….


Here is a case for euthanasia…..

Regards,

Faruk

I am from a south indian backward caste background.

So as people can imagine, I look brown in the morning but by evening I look dark. My american colleagues on the other hand, look fresh as ever... I honestly feel these goras don`t even need to take shower every morning ( and sometimes I had that doubt also ).

I used to use fair & lovely on myself when I was India but stopped it after coming here.

in #50, to explain why certainty is bad for you: nothing you come across in life is certain except death and taxes. and they are working on that too.

#49 malik: confusion, by replacing certainty, is the first step towards enlightenment. :-)

time to run off to do some work. have a nice sunday my friends.

tahmed #44 ``instead of resorting to personal insults to hamidm ``

Is comparing hamidm sahib to Michael Jackson a personal insult? Are you differentiating between who is a ``good`` white and who is a ``bad`` white?

I thought being white was all that mattered. Now I am confused.

Re: # 49

malik sahib,

......... i really don`t mind you comparing me to michael jackson - the man just got a little carried away in his attempt to repair god`s shoddy workmanship ....... and regardless of the passion for boys that he shares with our turkic ancestors and bedouin prophets, he is a still a great entertainer ...........

........ i must find my copy of the baburnama to see what babur had to say about the virtues of a fair complexion and his disgust for the dark-skinned natives of india ........

#47 malik: hamidm could not, even if he wanted to, sing and dance on chowk. and in addition, he is not paid to be of service on chowk. he is here to kill some time chatting, and and if he can do this with good humor without being personally offensive, more power to him.

so, dont confuse things by comparing two very different situations.

tahmed # 41 writes - ``the fact is that blacks seem to seeking attention ..... (talking loudly in public places as if everyone around is interested in their witticisms, .... while singing and dancing .... as if they are paid to be glamorous ...This has nothing to do with skin color but merely an attempt at compensating for an inferiority complex resulting from a history of being treated like subhumans``

This very much defines Hamidm`s behaviour on chowk.....he too tries to come across as being witty, as if we really care what this nigger has to say.

I had already diagnosed his behaviour to be resulting from a history of our ancestors being treated like subhumans. But I guess I am not white enough for him to take my diagnosis seriously.

Hamidm

Malik99 has a point... :)... looks like you are trying to be more loyal than the king... whites themselves love to get a brown skin which is why they so hanker after getting tans - even at the risk of skin cancer and what not... and here you are waxing lyrical on white skin... :)

Michale jackosn was crazy - so are you... nothing is more beautiful than the brown/dark skin... Halley Berry beats evey white woman hands down... :)

Get over it dude - you are one confused macaca...

#43 hamidm: and ever seen those blobs of white skin in gyms?? beautiful?? give me a break!! think ``healthy``, not ``skin color``.

#43 hamidm: what is ``better looking``?? beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and your notion of beauty is way too simplistic. How else do you explain that black models are paid millions to get photographed??

malik#40 instead of resorting to personal insults to hamidm (which say nothing about hamidm, and plenty about you) if you have a reasonable argument, present it. every man has a right to an opinion presented in a reasonable manner - and if you cant respect that, then you are just another bakra that seeks to follow the herd and cant stand to see someone you consider to be a bakra like yourself straying from the herd and so resorts to namecalling.

hamidm: White + Tan = Brown. :-)

You are merely associating civilized behavior and outlooks with white and primitive behavior and outlooks with black. Behavior has nothing to do with skin color.

I dont care about political correctness - which I consider to be merely a way to avoid ugly facts. Thus, while this is like saying the emperor has no clothes, the fact is that blacks seem to seeking attention in public places in the US (talking loudly in public places as if everyone around is interested in their witticisms, ignoring the customer while singing and dancing behind the cash register as if they are paid to be glamorous rather than provide service - all of which I have seen. This has nothing to do with skin color but merely an attempt at compensating for an inferiority complex resulting from a history of being treated like subhumans. Some of the most dignified blacks I have seen have been in Africa, e.g., one of whom even pointed out to me when I was visiting Africa his disgust with such behavior on the part of some american blacks. but dont confuse behavior, which in turn stems from historical circumstances, with skin color

Re: # 41

tahmed unkil,

because working at duane reade`s calls for the utmost decorum? After eight hours of working with us, entitled Americans who bumrush every newly opened register, have intricately detailed explanations of why we havent returned product A until 10 months after we purchased it, doddering old women who have 10 coupons and decide they dont want 11 of B product because...whatever the heck the reason is, whiny toddlers knocking boxes of eye cream over (i made my nephew pick up the boxes and put them back)...if I were working at a Duane Reade, you`d better hope I was doing whatever I could to not hang myself.....

Re: # 41

tahmed,

.......... i am not talking about behavior or attitude - that is a totally different discussion ........ i am simply talking about aesthetics : barack obama is better looking than charley rangle and harold ford is better looking than obama - the more white blood you have, are the better looking you get .......... it is just chemistry, for god`s sake !

........ and please don`t make me dig through ancient urdu and persian poetry to prove my point that this is a universal standard that precedes the colonial era ........

Re: # 43

may i point out that the great harems of the zoroastrian and middle east valued beauty in the full spectrum of hue-especially when women were valued for beauty, proficiency in court arts and the ability to reproduce male heirs. You need only to look at the great civilizations of Egypt, Mali, Songhai and Timbuktu to know that African women were valued in their cultures as the zenith of beauty, regardless of European conceptions of beauty.

Can you or would you want to imagine Naomi Campbell even a shade lighter?

Re: # 58

great harem meaning harems that contained hundreds of women in dehumanizing sexual servitude to one extremely rich male (eye roll)

and great civilization meaning fully developed in arts, sciences, literacy, socio-economic and political organization. Egypt is a case in point.

Hamidm Sahib –

I always thought you were born in a wrong religion and a wrong country. But after seeing your interacts on this board, it is clear as day that you were born in wrong skin too. Maybe that explains your relentless attempts to act whiter than whites, since you could not be one physically.

You, Hamdim Sahib, are the Michael Jackson of Chowk......except that he managed to look whiter than whites and even have off-springs from white women. Whereas all you, the pseudo-white Hamdim, have to show for your whiteness are your worthless promotions of democracy, western values, and western dresses.

What a loser!

Re: # 40

malik sahib,

Roo-e-sukhan kisi kee taraf ho to roo-siyaah
Sauda nahin, junoon nahin, vaihshat nahin mujhey

If I have made a sarcastic comment on any body my face be black
I am neither demented, nor lunatic nor savage

............. are you suggesting that ghalib was born in the wrong skin ?

tahmed,

....... you are never going to get me to back down from my position that white, specially with a nice tan, is more beautiful than black ....... it has got nothing to do with colonial politics as malik suggested, it is all about aesthetics .......... i know it is not politically correct to say such things - specially when ms saminasha is around - but it is the goddamn truth and no amount of denial is going to make the truth go away ......... i don`t care how healthy a body and mind you have, if you look like gandhiji nobody is going to bed with you, unless you can talk a poor niece into it ...........

Re: # 38

``it is the goddamn truth..``

rotfl, hamid sahib, when you are in true form it is brilliant sight to behold....

in #36 the reference to hamidm is an attempt to get him to write another one of his interesting posts on this board. Not necessarily to just pick on him. :-)

The worst are the cigarette ads. Which sell people lung cancer by packaging the cancer-causing agent with healthy activities like sports.

But in general I agree - these ads actually promote stupid notions of ``beauty`` that many pakistanis have. And yet can never explain why billions (and several hours every month by many people) in the west by people trying to tan themselves to brown. Nor can they explain why black women are as much in demand as white women in the world of high fashion.

The fact is (contrary to what hamidm seems to think) that a healthy body and mind is what makes a person attractive. By detracting from this important point, ads in Pakistan (and elsewhere) work to the detriment of the health of the population.

The central point of this article is, as pointed out very correctly by malikjahanzeb, band karo yeh fahashi.

Ads are one of the most powerful tools of communication. My objection is at what these ads are communicating to the public. Why show something which the majority of people cannot relate to? The Olwell ad was what triggered me to write this piece. An ad that shows everything to a country where most of the people live below the poverty line and thus, cannot relate to it. Even those who can actually afford Olwell, the middle class of this country, lead lives that are very remote from what is depicted in the ad. And as far as those people are concerned who actually lie such a lifestyle, well they are a niche. And you don`t show your ad 24/7 on all channels if you are engaging in niche marketing.

There are many such ads, talkshawk being another one, that is revolting because it makes a mockery of consumer IQ. The sad part is that most of these people in MNCs are graduates of good universities and a vast majority belong to the middle class. Yet, when it comes to making ads, they either make something absolutely outrageous or copy from India.

Ofcourse, there is some brilliant work being done out there as well. MCB Visa, as mentioned in the article is one such example. The UBL Islamic Banking campaign is also an example of good marketing. The message of the ad is simple, everyone can use Islamic Banking and this is put forward in a brilliant tagline, ``Main bhi Ameen hoon``. And they don`t use any western models.

We need to ensure, somehow, that these marketers out there know that they can`t just keep on fooling us. Consumerism is creeping in our society and killing our values. It`s about time we raise our voice against it. Otherwise our future generations will never understand the true value of money. They don`t understand it even now, what with young business graduates flashing their credit cards everywhere and thinking they are the epitome of success.

The focus of this article was not Fair&Lovely.

Farheen Zehra

Re: # 35

farheen,

``Consumerism is creeping in our society and killing our values. It`s about time we raise our voice against it.``

.......... do you even realize how dumb that sounds ! ........ if consumers don`t consume, producers won`t produce and we will all be back in our mud huts with our `values` .......... and why do you have to raise your voice - why don`t you simply not buy the product that you don`t like ?......... the folks in advertising are simply doing their job by trying to sell their client`s product - if the product is harmful or illegal than the government should regulate it .........

.........this article is a piece of garbage and has nothing to do with advertising or marketing or product liablity ....... you are simply trying to push your islamist political agenda and seventh century morality down our throat ........... if we let you have your way all we will have is mullahs advertising maswaq and fat women in hijabs and niqabs showing off victoria`s secret lingerie ............ now, that is a disgusting thought !

I think the central idea of this article is:

`` Band kero yeh fahashi.......``

I have a vested interest in this-you mention Unilever and a close family member is very high up in the company. While working in India,we would talk about Fair and Lovely-he was very proud of it-it only does so well because it works, he`d say. I don`t think the company is responsible for the light skinned obsession. Indians have always used natural products-sandalwood powder, almond oil, uptan, etc both to improve their skins and to lighten them. I don`t even think it is as much of an obsession as it was 20 or 30 years ago, btw.

Re: # 28
NB this multinationalhas created that butteriing poison called ``Dalda`` . More people must have died by cosuming so called ``Vanspati``. Millions must have died eating that stuff and pouring hydrogeneted in their blood vains. Instead of G man ot J man multinational need to be forced atleast publish warning og stuff like of smoking products. But this good MNC and gives all other products of good Quality.
I have accounting question. Unilever heard is largest corp in this in Pakistan and India. Then wonder revenue of Indian Pakistani groups more than parent company in ``ton` of product sold ?
I neveer touched that poison or allowed to be used and had very hard time but as head of house one should not allow any body indulge in such bad food.

Re:shah2#24

[..I am sure there might be more dark brahmins than milky white ones....there r brahmin Oriya,south indians Marathi ...millions of them....]

Yeah, but I am a Sindhi brahmin. So you bet we have fair skin.

Anyway, I was just kidding around with hamidm....

Re: # 26
I thought all the Sindhi brahmins were killed..or almost all!

Re: # 27
The last Ruler Dhair was slaughtered b y MO bin kassim and his queens and daughter were taken to Damascus and due to some misunderstanding about sexual affairs with royals women, ruler of Damascus slaughtered Mo Bin. Dahir was Brahmin king and name of Capital was Brahmanabad. Budhist supported MO Bin and after he took care of yellow robed hindus also.
There something called Bhaiband. Most Sindhis know more classify related to places from where they came from. There are efforts going to capture tourist potential of Rich hindis specially new generation if they want visit place called Sindh which had Sindhi language as LinguaFranca. Now Karachi and hyderbad both are Urdu speaking and Sindhis retreating from 1947 and it appears they are loosing one citadel after another. Most so called sindhis are poor ``red Indians`` of sindh. ( Even sukkar, even Bhuttos places are under demographical metamorphism. They are not match for dynamic MQM followers and Punjabis has more Interest in MQM than sindhis as now Sindhis have MQM Governer. Its cruel world and dosile people are left behind. Most of Sindhis who lived in Karachi were Hindus and most educated of Sindhis. Sindhis made mistake by cutting or decapatting intelluctual class by ousting and they got what desired and are suffer and will suffer for recklessness combined with simplton attitude. Its history Sindhis are nothing in Sindh where it counts- Karachi.