A Lovers’ Quarrel with Airport Profiling

atif

Excellent article!!!! You rock................

#178, #179

Lapdog, go screw yourself.

Or better still, go jump kiss the ass of your moronic suicidal jihadis and jihadans!

Then in the end, you can just hang around!

Like the Saddam!

... correction ...

BJ Kumar has now turned evangelical christian and quoting Bible ...

#176 by bjkumar

So I see BJ Kumar has now turned christian and quoting Bible ... rotfl ...

Ama Yaar ... you`re better as a sikhra ... at-least you provide good laughs at bara bajay .. (12:00 noon).

#174 by zeemax on January 13, 2007 10:06am PT


I see the jihadi elephant in the room using Israel as an excuse for flying planes into buildings...

#175 (add-on)

Besides, it was all their land, anyway!

#173 Zee

Ama yaar, Israel rocks!

And you know it!

.... contd ... forgot the punchline ...

8) Check mothers for baby milk, but won`t say a word to Israel.

;-)

...and your adopted country is helping matters by opening two new fronts ... Somalia and Iraq/Iran border (as if the existing ones are not enough). Wonderful ...

It will:

1) Invade Afghanistan, but won`t say a word to Israel.

2) Invade Iraq, but won`t say a word to Israel.

3) Allow Lebanon to be bombed and innocents killed, but won`t say a word to Israel.

4) Bomb Somalia and kill 150 sheep-herders, but won`t say a word to Israel.

5) Replenish 20,000 killed and wounded in Iraq for the same futile job the previous ones got killed/wounded doing, but won`t say a word to Israel.

6) Engage Iran and Syria in violent conflict, but won`t say a word to Israel.

7) Commit more sons to slaughter and be slaughtered, but won`t say a word to Israel.

Do you see the elephant in your drawing room .. you dummies?

ballukhan:

You are holding a very low bar for suspicion. But I agree with you that profiling could be refined to reduce its impact.

Re: # 169

It is a legitimate query to elicit response regarding a visa seeker`s belief in the country`s political order. These questions are rightly asked by the visa officer from the visitor seeking a visa. And I would not mind answering to it if it gets raised by the airport security or even airlines security personnel since it only heightens my security of not being on an aircraft being targetted by a suicidal maniac.

It is a question like `` Do you believe that the democratic system in the country must be replaced by a Communist/Islmaist/Hindutva/Christain laws`` that gets asked the moment we find Communists , Hindutvadis and Christians blowing up the planes and commiting bombings of innocent civilians. Recall the days when the communists used to hijack and blow up planes and such questions were invariably asked because belief in such political order does indicate a possibility (though not a certainity) that the person does agree to the radical political goals and may go to an extent for its fulfilment. Such persons may facilitate, collaborate, provide ideological or propagandist support to those who may actually commit the violent acts.
The extent to which the person is commited to his political goals and the extent to which he may go to use violence to achieve his political goals depends upon other factors that need to be factored in the final ``Risk assessment`` such as his ``age group`` (based upon the empirical observation that old age radicals above 40 years do not often themselves commit suicide bombings) etc.

In the present context an Islamist`s interpretation of the Shariat Laws envisages a polity that is contrary to modern liberal democratic order. It is one of the parameters whose answer indicates a heightened factor of risk. When this risk factor gets added with other factors like person`s family and educational back ground, his age group, the pattern of his visits, the reasons for his visit and various other factors that may indicate his probability to be a potential risk then he should be certainly kept under surveillance during the flight or when he lands in the country.
The problems that present day ``profiling`` throw up is with the action authorities take when their software indicates that the person could be of higher risk. At least America needs to sort it out and should not arrest people just because their software indicates a higher risk.
But my take is that this is just the begining and things would be sorted out in a way that profiling would almost become un-intrusive for those who have nothing to be afraid of!!!

Oh calm down! Take your shoes, belt etc. off before getting in the x-ray line. Oh BTW make sure the gels etc. (tooth paste, shampoo.....) fit in quarter pounder bag.

In Pakistan we profile 100% hindu as well as Arab visitors. Now you know how they feel.

Ballukhan:
`` Do you believe that the democratic system in this country should be replaced by Shariat Laws``

I dont know if I would agree with such a question, as belief in shariat does not necessarily mean a person wants to blow the plane.

I would, however, accept this as a legitimate question to ask a potential immigrant to the country as this would say something about his/her willingness to accept the value system of this society.

``do we have conclusive proof that profiling works? for example, the us industrial prison complex is filled with brown and black men. thanks to dna technology, we are finding that several are not guilty of the crimes for which they were sentenced and imprisoned. Many critics in the US contend that their ``crime`` was being of color and male.

there is something wrong in basic, ethical principle to target brown and black people of arab or s asian descent in airports and on subways-it is a form of racism that speaks more loudly than any justification. ``

Profiling should not be confused with racism. A more appropriate word for it is ``Risk-Assessment``. Every person who handles Large Financial or scientific Projects or IT Security knows about it and there are specialized software tools that do the ``Risk Assessment``. Incidently, the latest risk to the Airlines industry is coming from the Islamists of specific bent and behavioural pattern. So, it is understandable that the issues of nationality and religious beliefs are considered in the Risk Assessment of the passangers.

In the future , when hindu or christian extreme elements would get frequently into the business of blowing passanger airlines we would certainly find these religious beliefs getting into parameters of the software that increase the risk to the passanger airlines.

As , I said earlier- if a security guy asks a question like `` Do you believe that the democratic system in this country should be replaced by Shariat Laws`` then that is a question that does not bewilder me because I know that I would not struggle to fake the answer.

#164 by saminasha2 on January 11, 2007 7:38am PT

You need to get a new dictionary...throw away the one that says facetious means questions you don`t have answers to...

#162 saminasha: and after answering #165, please provide answers to the following question:

What is the cost of an airliner loaded with passengers (think of each individual as being a sister or a brother or child or a parent) blowing up in the sky?

Between the cost of profiling and the cost of the reason for profiling, there is a vast gap. That is why I find these complaints about ``profiling`` to be so self-centered. Are we really so full of ourselves that we cant understand what is at stake here?

#162 saminasha: you ask ``What are the costs of that? `` (i.e. profiling at airports).

Very good question. Please choose from one of the following possible answers:

1. zero.
2. zilch.
3. nada.
4. sipher.
5. not worth a second thought.

Re: # 163

arjun,

youre going to be fined 50 dollars for every facetious question you ask. So far your tab is 12, 400.00. (eye roll)

#160 by saminasha2 on January 11, 2007 6:04am PT


we are finding that several are not guilty of the crimes for which they were sentenced and imprisoned.


What % of people on death row have been found innocent? And are you saying no white person has been found innocent after a DNA test?

Re: # 161

tahmed,

my point is that for the infintesimal (sp?) number of legitimate suspects that are actually rightfully id`ed, three entire races have been tarred with suspicion-the performance of that suspicion takes place in thousands of airports everyday on an ongoing basis.

What are the costs of that?

saminasha: look at chowk profiles and then tell me if a poster is an indian is he/she going to be more pro-indian than pro-pakistani? similarly, if a poster is a pakistani, he he/she going to be more pro-pakistan than pro-india? and the vast majority of posts and articles on chowk have to do with such ``tribal instincts`` rather than with objective discussions on science and economics and so forth. the fact is that most people find it easy to identify with a community they grew up in, and a small minority will go to extremes.

Think about this before saying that profiling makes no sense.

Re: # 159

do we have conclusive proof that profiling works? for example, the us industrial prison complex is filled with brown and black men. thanks to dna technology, we are finding that several are not guilty of the crimes for which they were sentenced and imprisoned. Many critics in the US contend that their ``crime`` was being of color and male.

there is something wrong in basic, ethical principle to target brown and black people of arab or s asian descent in airports and on subways-it is a form of racism that speaks more loudly than any justification.

Re: # 145

``measure the psychic effects of airline profiling.``

I know that I have nothing in my Imaan to psyche me up. OTH I find those who easily get swayed by the Islamist propaganda and start getting psyched up and shouting ``I have a bomb, give me a drink!!`` are the one`s who find all this profiling scary because it makes them confront their innermost thoughts of violence towards the ``other lifeworlds``.
Profiling works. It may be imperfect, but once the software gets more accurate to match the profile with the risky behaviour through experience, we are more likely to take early corrective action to remedy those with fractured psyche of ``conspiracy theories`` and propensity for violence towards ``other lifeworlds``.

attaboy ICE...deport their asses back..

Convicted Pakistani’s family detained in NY



NEW YORK: A day after a Pakistani man was sentenced to 30 years in prison for an unsuccessful plot to bomb a busy subway station, federal immigration authorities detained his parents and sister with the intent to deport them, a newspaper said on Wednesday.

Shahwar Matin Siraj, 24, was sentenced on Monday in Brooklyn federal court for a 2004 plot to blow up the Herald Square subway station in a congested shopping district.

A spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement told the New York Times that Siraj’s father, Siraj Abdul Rehman, 54, was arrested after a final deportation order was filed against him. Siraj’s mother, Shahina Parveen, 50, and his sister, Sanya Siraj, 19, were arrested and detained on other immigration violations, the newspaper said.

The family has lived in the US since 1999 and had been seeking asylum since 2003. Spokesman Mark Thorn said he could not say why the actions were taken a day after the man was sentenced, the newspaper reported, but said only that criminal cases take precedence over administrative ones.

Mona Shah, the family’s lawyer, told the New York Times that she knew of no final order of removal entered against Rehman. “It’s absolutely disgusting that they’ve picked him up under the guise of a deportation order,” Shah told the Times. “Fine, punish the son. But why punish them like this?”

All three of Siraj’s family members were picked up Tuesday morning at their home in Queens and are being held at a facility in Elizabeth, New Jersey.

``Since when did other countries became the benchmark for US to look at? ``

It`s not right to be Number One all the time..Ab ham doosrey countries ko chance dey rahein hain aagey badhney ka.

DM Sahib #146 {``Those are excellent examples of spurious analogies. Equally spurious response would be as follows:
`99% of women are innocent, but 100% of the female whores are women.`
Therefore, ignore men when looking for whores [unless in Caribbean vacation spots frequented by horny women :)] ``}

DM Sahib,
Really? Horny women in Caribeean vacation spots! :)
Sir, I am amazed at your knowledge of hot spots and horny women. There is still summer in your hair. Could you please share your elixir with Chacha Buttees?

Thanks for adding to my frivolous analogies to demonstrate how nonsensical profiling can be and how incomplete its application for the benefit of humanity.

anil #142, {``Although if you can partner with Arjun and collaborate on analogies, one liner galore, you can start a show to compete Shah Rukh Khan`s Kaun Banega Carorepati.``}

Anil Bhai,
I am already Arjun`s partner in his quest to identify AND solve all of Pakistan`s problems. He identifies them and I try to solve them.
No one can compete against Shah Rukh Khan - he is Bagwan and Khud Aa and the second cousin of God the Father from his brother-in-law`s side. :)

burpinder #141 {``Mirasi Muslim Bilal, an Indian who boarded the flight from Vienna, suddenly started shouting that he was carrying several bombs with him and would blow up the plane after which the captain of the aircraft sent a distress signal.

Sources said Bilal had consumed alcohol in excess during the journey and was demanding more, but the crew refused to serve him saying the aircraft was about to land. ``}

Burpy Bhai,
Now we understand why there were laws against providing firewater to Injuns. :)

they didnt ask all the passengers to turn on their laptops only that looked suspicious. you were probably one of them, nothing to be ashamed off. This is where muslims should be proud of themselves that they are singled out for their good deeds.

The Shahawar Matin Siraj story.

#147 Why should Pakistan allow these criminals in?

#149 - duh! and they stopped doing it because late model laptops cannot be packed with explosives, right? if i were to profile you, i would put you in the category of ``smart asses`` who try to get ahead of themselves.

reason they asked to turn on the laptop is to ensure that it is not packed with plastic C4 explosives.
you are welcome.

#137 ``With all its flaws and lop-sided foreign policies USA will still rank much higher in civil liberties if compared to the land of faithful’s. ``

Yes indeed, if you want to feel good about it, then yes, US has better civil liberties than Angola, Cameroon, Saudi Arabia and many others. But I thought USA was the benchmark that every country looked up to. Since when did other countries became the benchmark for US to look at? When you have to defend the declining civil liberties in US in this manner, then there really is an issue.

Salim #138 - Yes, I thought the instruction to turn on the laptop was strange. But then, we hadnt yet seen the pre-midterm election fear campaign of last year whereby our water bottles and shaving gels were branded as instruments of terrorism.

The family of the young Pakistani terrorist who was yesterday sentenced to 30 years for plotting to blow up Herald Square in NYC is claiming political asylum on the basis of being Ismailis. Since when have Ismailis been persecuted in Pakistan? These morons should be sent home packing, of course after serving their sentences.

Salim#123:

Those are excellent examples of spurious analogies. Equally spurious response would be as follows:

``99% of men are innocent, but 100% of the rapists are men.``

Therefore, ignore women while looking for rapists.

`99% of women are innocent, but 100% of the female whores are women.`

Therefore, ignore men when looking for whores [unless in Caribbean vacation spots frequented by horny women :)]

``89% of Eye Talians are good singers and chefs, but 97% of Mafioso are Eye Talians.``

Not true any more but, if so, ignore non-Italians when looking for mafiosos.

``96% of Japanese are good airline passengers, but 100% of the Kamikaze pilots have been Japs.``

Don`t look elsewhere but Japan when looking for kamikaze pilots.

``64% of Indian Hindus are vegetarians, but 75% of riotous murderers in India are Hindus``

So, ignore Sikhs and Muslims when looking for killers of Sikhs or Muslims during the riots.

Re: # 144


We need a national study to measure the psychic effects of airline profiling. A few people`s empirical feedback cannot be taken as totality.

Just as terrorism is all about scaring innocents- counter terrorism and security also works on scaring the potential terrorists. It is all right till they get their profiling in proper place so that they do not unnecessarily create inconvenience or affront to me.

Pardon the sarcasm but after all this humiliation do you still say a prayer or two for the 19 assholes that caused this problem to begin with? after all they were part of the Muslim Ummah hence your brothers.

Re: # 140

Salim Sahib:

``....pedophiles happen to be middle-aged white men....``

For them my solution will be even more radical. Castrate them put all, without exception, in an island near Falkland Island, and call it Castrated Island. Onlly will fix the problem at the source, by this analogy, children will not need to be protected. Pedophiles need to be punished.

I do enjoy your analogies. For that you do not need to prepare for GMAT for Harvard, Wharton or Stanford MBA. Although if you can partner with Arjun and collaborate on analogies, one liner galore, you can start a show to compete Shah Rukh Khan`s Kaun Banega Carorepati.

atif, next time try this :)))

---

Passenger triggers bomb scare at airport

---

Print article | E-mail article | Post comment | View comments

New Delhi Jan 7: A drunk passenger travelling on board a Delhi-bound Austrian airlines aircraft from Vienna created a scare at the airport here when he claimed that he was carrying explosives and would blow up the plane.

The high-voltage mid-air drama began shortly after 10.30 pm last night when the Boeing 767 aircraft carrying 300 passengers and crew was approaching Delhi, sources at the airport said.

Mirasi Muslim Bilal, an Indian who boarded the flight from Vienna, suddenly started shouting that he was carrying several bombs with him and would blow up the plane after which the captain of the aircraft sent a distress signal.

Sources said Bilal had consumed alcohol in excess during the journey and was demanding more, but the crew refused to serve him saying the aircraft was about to land.

On being refused drinks, Bilal threatened that he would blow up the flight, they added.

Airport officials said they received an emergency call at 10.45 pm, minutes before the plane was to land.

The aircraft landed at 10.56 pm under full emergency conditions and bomb disposal squads of the CISF and Delhi Police rushed to the plane and carried out an extensive search after which the claim was declared a hoax.

Bilal was immediately taken into custody by airport security personnel and handed over to the police. He has been booked under charges of criminal intimidation (Section 506 of the IPC), sources added.

PTI

#139, Anil Sahib,
If Muslims comprise 20% of the world`s population, yet only 0.5% of the AIDS victims, would it be fair to NOT test Muslims for this virus in any proactive attempt at detecting public health hazards?

If 90% of pedophiles happen to be middle-aged white men, would it be fair to protect one`s children against all mature white men and even subject these potential predators to intense character scans at the entrance of all public parks, playgrounds, and at both Disneyland and Disneyworld?

There are numerous such analogies. :)

Re: # 136

Salim sahib:

In that case I am certain you can find 100% analogies also. Else you may have problem in your GMAT.

Atif,
Speaking of condoms, if you had packed the oversized yet small, made in India Siva Lingam brand condoms, and if you had rubbed off the excess Fair N Lovely cream, you could have easily passed as an Indian and avoided the embarrassing and time-consuming scrutiny involving the rubber gloves. Also, if, instead of a bag pack, you had carried a laptop case, even a fake one with a stack of old Hustler magazines inside, you would have breezed through security like an old chacha powered by a nihari-induced jet stream. Obviously you have paid no attention to the informative survival material that was contained in my article.

With all its flaws and lop-sided foreign policies USA will still rank much higher in civil liberties if compared to the land of faithful’s. I think as American Muslims we should not be complacent and we must be politically active in order to make sure that our rights are protected in this land that we have chosen out of our free will to reside in. This is no time to be scared or intimidated. However we should also pick our battles. If as a policy Americans are profiling ALL Muslims in airports then it must be condemned and it usually is taken to task by organizations such as CAIR etc. I don’t think that’s the case however.

I was president of MSA while I was going to school, I have been active in several different charity organization and is also on the board of my mosque. I travel twice every week and not once I get any different treatment from rest of the travelers. Taking shoes, belts, coins off are a universal phenomenon now which applies to all. It’s a sign of immense low-self esteem to name your kids sam, shawn etc. just so they can fit in and God-forbid people would find out that they are muslims, but at the same Muslims must be loyal and constructive citizens of this country that has given them uncanny prosperity. American public at-large must not get this feeling that we are opportunistic thugs who are just filling bags with dollars and will move back to “Sheikhupura” as soon as lil rasheeda (or “rash” as we insist that she identifies herself) comes home knocked up.

Like it or not, this is home people, we need to make sure that its “comfortable” but we can’t be whiny lil bitches either that complain and moan at every insignificant thing. By all means check my pocket koran, ask me questions about it, I shouldn’t be offended, they way I see it its an opportunity for dawah.

#134, Anil {``The last one ``fit`` nahin hota hai. Also you had to come down more than 1/3rd of the way to reach it. Your analogy has to be about Gujjus in Godhra. ``}

Anil Bhai,
Yes, I was referring to Gujarat, but also the anti-Sikh ritos in Delhi of 1984 and Ahmedabad, Jubbulpur, and other incidents in India`s post-independence history.

#130 Arjun {``n a related development, Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi said in an interview published on Tuesday that nationals from Britain, Canada, Pakistan and Sudan were among those captured or wounded during the ouster of Somalia’s Islamist rulers.``}

Arjun Bhayya,
Now I don`t feel so bad - obviously this was a contingent of Commonwealth guys. :)

Re: # 123

Salim sahib:

``99% of men are innocent, but 100% of the rapists are men.
99% of women are innocent, but 100% of the female whores are women.
89% of Eye Talians are good singers and chefs, but 97% of Mafioso are Eye Talians.
96% of Japanese are good airline passengers, but 100% of the Kamikaze pilots have been Japs.
64% of Indian Hindus are vegetarians, but 75% of riotous murderers in India are Hindus ``

The last one ``fit`` nahin hota hai. Also you had to come down more than 1/3rd of the way to reach it. Your analogy has to be about Gujjus in Godhra.

Atif,
Instead of pretending to be a young Tom Cruise, strutting your semi-naked butt all over your Roxbury apartment while waiting for Rebecca De Mornay to show up, you should have been brushing up on CAIR`s pamphlet on prolific practical profiling positions. Also, of course you would draw attention because of the inconsistencies among your shoe size, your obviously small and effeminate hands, and that bulge you bragged about. It`s time you pulled out those heavy-duty Nike socks that don`t fool anybody and just cause you to undergo a full body cavity search.

As the security gal started to inspect your bag pack, it was your clue to start inspecting the fortitude of her fasteners. Such a gesture would have gotten you arrested for harassment, but to my knowledge, no one has ever made it to gitmo just for participatory mutual inspection at the airport security station. You did not tell us whether you were one of the flying Eye Maams on your way to an Eye Maam conviction in DC. If so, you should have resisted saying your prayers in Arabic out loud in the boarding area. Instead you should have been in the First Class lounge relaxing and getting into a three sheets to the wind attitude. For more advice, please refer to the index of topics in my article on this subject.

Atif,
What I found amusing in the early days of airport security was the insistence of inspectors to turn on your laptop. What I found really amusing was when you finally turned it on, the stupid inspectors would poke their seemingly disposable heads as close to the potential explosive device as possible. Either they were always betting on a negative result or somehow, no one can resist getting a closer look once the screen lights up.

atif: little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing. that does not change the fact that the blame for the reichstag fire was placed on communists by the nazis, not on jews.

also note that even more dangerous is crying wolf when there is none as i have been trying to bring to your attention below. because the fact is that homeland security staff are merely doing their job to protect society from real wolves of the 9/11 kind and making them appear to be the problem does not make their job easier.

It makes sense to profile pakis..

Pakistanis among several captured: Ethiopian PM

#126,

With your supply of condoms to last a decade for an entire army division, you were obviously not going to DC. which has as many condoms per square inch as Amsterdam. :))

I suspect that you had borrowed some tips from your own previously notorious article and were preparing to go to Allama Iqbal International, which still has a shortage of sanitary dispensers. :)

No wonder you got a deep cavity search at Logan - claiming to be flying into IAD, while dressed in a bright blue shirt with your skin substantially lightened by an overdose of Fair N Lovely - resembling the late Egyptian flyboy. 8-|

Of course, it would be asking too much of you to claim that you are an Indian. :)

saminasha: #51 this is what i was referring to - ``.the guys who ask the questions are usually Latino and they dont understand why I`m on the Special Line. ``

you should have quit while you were ahead. :-) i mean - what does being Latino have to do with all this?? and, OK, so these are staff then. i mean they can either be staff or passengers and if they are none of the above then what the hell are they??

#126 by atif2 on January 9, 2007 3:20pm PT


the much bigger issue facing this great nation is the erosion of civil liberties.


jihadi2: you don`t give a damn about this great nation or it`s civil liberties...you`re whining because your honor and dignity have been somehow lowered..

salim # 120 ``Now, putting one gross of condoms and a slightly mutilated copy of Playboy was an excellent ploy.``

FYI, some of us keep condoms for more than just a ploy :) Indeed, your article of long ago to dodge just such profiling at the airport sometime comes to mind. Unfortunately the problem with getting profiled is that there are things - such as your name, that cannot be covered even with a family size pack of condoms, or the last 12 issues of Playboy in backpack...

scout #124 - I did not get antagonized either :) However, I think profiling is just one of the issues - the much bigger issue facing this great nation is the erosion of civil liberties. When you hear about people who are put behind bars without any charges, you realize that getting profiled is nothing more than a nuisance. Lets hope that this climate of fear, perpetuated by this administration to further its dark global agenda, eases as the awareness in general public grows.

On a positive note, Cindy Sheehan - the woman whose son died in Iraq, has taken her protest to Guantanamo Bay. She has linked her son`s death to the abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay...her son was killed in the same month that first pictures of Abu Gharaib came to light.

#124 Just grin `n bar it.

atif,

i wasn`t trying to antagonize you, i really liked your article and yes it does spread awareness but your target audience is limited. that`s why i wanted to know what you are doing SPECIFICALLY to counteract being profiled. one of my husband`s friend has this exact same problem and is seeing a lawyer. it`s inconvenient but he`s sick and tired of having to go through the same shenanigans when traveling.

on a second note, we always welcome your photographs, so pictures of your protests would be great

DM Sahib #3 {``The fact is that, as the cliche goes, while 99% of Muslims/Arabs are innocent, 100% of those whom the authorities fear are troublemakers, are also Muslims/Arabs``}

DM Sahib,
While I fully support airport safety and the fight against terrorism, I cannot subscribe to this logic. Please consider:

99% of men are innocent, but 100% of the rapists are men.
99% of women are innocent, but 100% of the female whores are women.
89% of Eye Talians are good singers and chefs, but 97% of Mafioso are Eye Talians.
96% of Japanese are good airline passengers, but 100% of the Kamikaze pilots have been Japs.
64% of Indian Hindus are vegetarians, but 75% of riotous murderers in India are Hindus

113 by arjun2 on January 9, 2007 1:53pm PT
it`s always funny when the people who`re most likely to be holocaust deniers claim the status of victimhood by comparing themselves to jews in nazi germany(who, according to the worldview of these islamofascists, were going well in that era)


It fits the theme of this article. here you have an indignant chutif 2 who is making fun of poor workers at the airport because he has to bear the shame of being associated with a terrorist.

Kidding aside…

Profiling is a bad thing. Most profiling methodologies are probably highly mistake-prone. Further, those methodologies are implemented by ordinary individuals in less than perfect ways. The vast numbers of people who get profiled are innocent individuals who perhaps feel rather humiliated – as is human. And as expected, the vast majority of the remainder of the population does not care too much about profiling because – based on the very facts that it IS profiling and targets specific ethnic groups ensure that most of them would not undergo it.

Having said all of that, in the present climate, profiling is not going to go away unless and until we can come up with something better.

Something more objective, something less intrusive!

Something else!

Something based on future technology – which is yet to come along.

But is certain to come along, because once a need has been identified, there WILL be an invention and a solution.

And when such technology comes along, there would be no need to profile because everything about everyone everywhere will be known ahead of time.

Then we can all be happy except those who worry about their privacy.

Atif,
This is a very interesting and well-written anecdote. You manage to captivate the audience by using the 2nd person quite effectively and your description of the ordeal is very graphic. I wish that you had referred to my serious article pertaining to this subject and could have circumvented some of the negative outcomes of your suffering. Now, putting one gross of condoms and a slightly mutilated copy of Playboy was an excellent ploy. Of course, you should have loudly announced your possession of ten bottles of Chivas Regal as soon as you got out of your cab driven by the Somali driver. Your other shortcoming, other than the obvious physical one, was your timidity in not leaping over the counter to grope the airline agent`s knockers as she printed your boarding pass. Anyway, I found your article both humorous and timely. Good job.

#103 {``what i wrote to atif of course is not affected by that, and i wonder what you think of this question - what i call crying wolf over trivialities while the real wolf (e.g. in the form of immigration restrictions for people who would have otherwise come to the west and improved their lot) gets in and does real damage to other people who are not as fortunate as we are.``}

First IamNadia and now this fool. I am going to demand that Chowk Staff provide permanent subtitles when either one of the two posts incomrehensible nonsense.

#116 (further thoughts)

Of course, the ``pleasure`` would have been rather one-sided.

while one sikh indeed was killed after 9/11, most of us sikhs are very grateful to this law-abiding nation which has wonderful warm people who showed us all forms of support during those confused times. we as a people understand that its the root-cause that needs adressing.

and no, plate-pissing is not what we do.

Ama yaar Atif,

It is good that this thing turned out to be only a lovers` quarrel!

I would hate to imagine what would have happened to you in case of full-fledged sex!

It would perhaps have been very heated and very passionate!! Some S&M, too?!

Re: # 103
tahmed sahib,

I said NO such thing about passengers.

Re: # 112
Atif..really, I mean, can you tell a Serb from a Bosnian apart? You really have no clue as to what you are trying to say. But please continue making a jackass out of yourself.

it`s always funny when the people who`re most likely to be holocaust deniers claim the status of victimhood by comparing themselves to jews in nazi germany(who, according to the worldview of these islamofascists, were going well in that era)

Urstruly # 110 - well said!

kulharee # 108 - ``are you really that dumb to differentiate between ethnic cleansing and racial profiling?``

A basic principle of marketing is that you first profile the market, before you target it. Similarly, to get to ethnic cleansing, you first profile that ethnicity. Seriously, jews will be better off having wise enemies, than stupid friends like you.

scout # 109 - ``i just want to know what YOU are doing since this whole thing has affected you so dearly``

Well, one obvious thing I have done is to actually go through the trouble of writing an article and publishing it on a website to create awareness about racial profiling. It may not be much, but it is something. And given the pak / India mud slinging that inevitably occurs on every chowk board, the message may have been drowned a bit. But I am sure serious folks like dost mittar, zeemax, urstruly, burpinder, samina, iron mask, tahmed and many other silent readers have this message revived in their minds, even if they don`t fully agree with it.

Secondly, but more importantly, I do not feel obligated to name the organization I send donations to, or list the protests that I have attended or the source of the money that I donate from. But if you are really dying to know, I would be glad to post some pictures on UP of some of the protests I attended :)

I think the best people to comment on profiling are the surviving family members of those thousands of sikhs who were lynched right after 9/11; their crime - they looked like Taliban.

atif2,

i just want to know what YOU are doing since this whole thing has affected you so dearly

Re: # 105

Atif – are you really that dumb to differentiate between ethnic cleansing and racial profiling? By your thinking, Muslims should get the hell out of Amrika... assume the position.

Re: # 79

``Avkrishna # 69 - please dont take each one of my comment seriously. some are meant in jest. regards.``

My apologies, Shouldn`t have come in between you and Arjun to begin with

Rgds,

#75 by arjun2 on January 9, 2007 11:51am PT

```` Why? chowk is a target rich environment for the agents hunting jihadis in America..````

I guess we have to blame Urstruly and Zeemax for the low priority of Chowk on FBI` radar.

I am sure they had high hopes initially. But once they figured that these two guys are paying their taxes promptly and only making empty noises here, they took it easy..

The only ones that would have been truly dangerous are Romair and Masadi. But luckily one migrated to Canuckistan and the other `left on a Jet plane` ;-)

tahmed # 91 ``hitler used the reichstag fire to go after the communists``

chacha - little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

tahmed # 100 ``the first (and as far as i know, the only) guy to be arrested under the patriot act (the other favorite topic in addition to airline security for many muslims) was an office holder of some kind in the ADL ``

chacha - little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

#92 - ``It is always the same mantra..``why us?``..`who did this to us?``.``

Dont you be making fun of jews...

Kulharee #90 ``what is stupid is that you think Holocaust was racial profiling, and your effort to equate current environment faced by some muslims is somehow equal to that.``

A proverbial stone thrown in the waters off Mexico turns into a hurricane in Florida. Jewish persecution in germany didnt occur all of sudden beginning 1933. To start off, someone must have written some small article in some small newspaper blaming them for the defeat of germany in WWI....and over years it turned into a flood gate of persecution. Please read up on the people you are defending, otherwise you do a disservice to them.

Scout # 102 - Its not a one man lobby, there are thousands of people in it and dozens of organizations who have taken it up. Please get some familiarity with how things work in DC...afterall you are a citizen, right? :)

bye (again, after having responded to the new posts i saw).

saminasha: i rechecked your post and i see that i misread (you meant latinos among passengers, not among the staff). sorry about the mistake and i take back what i wrote.

what i wrote to atif of course is not affected by that, and i wonder what you think of this question - what i call crying wolf over trivialities while the real wolf (e.g. in the form of immigration restrictions for people who would have otherwise come to the west and improved their lot) gets in and does real damage to other people who are not as fortunate as we are.

atif2,

it`s good to know you`re lobbying and have filed a lawsuit, could you care to share the details with us, how has the progress been?

#99 if you think 99% pakis are good, then as far as you are concerned, all pakis are good. :-) that is the bottom line for any group of people - a tiny minority grabs the headlines and conducts violence, the vast majority just want to get on with their lives.

kulharee, thanks. interestingly enough, the first (and as far as i know, the only) guy to be arrested under the patriot act (the other favorite topic in addition to airline security for many muslims) was an office holder of some kind in the ADL who was arrested for threatening to attack a mosque. :-)

this is just another example of the gap between reality and this crying wolf all the time.

Re: # 95; Tahmed, I do not consider 99% of Pakistanis bad. but that one percent are in the news every single day. You tell me how are we supposed to know whether atif muhammed, who studied in a madrassah is different from atif mohammed 2, who drives a cab in boston and is a hard working yet somewhat pissed off moron?

I could care less about India. I live in the US, my family is here and if indignant fools like atif have to get long cylindrical shiny objects shoved up their ass so that my family is a bit safer, I am all for it.

Re: # 73

tahmed,

i never implied that Latino security workers had poor command of English-thats your misreading!

bye bye.

Re: # 93
T Saab… it was formed in the US turn of the last century (or there about) to speak up against injustices… otherwise knows as the Anti Defamation League. Some believe it to be brainchild of the FBI.

#92 chaltahai: you can consider all pakis to be bad. b-a-a-a-d. real bad. india is no danger to pakistan even if it wanted to be. :-)

Re: # 92

Chaltoo the good ones don’t carry condoms. At least not in the carry on.

#89 ADL? please to spell out.

It is always the same mantra..``why us?``..`who did this to us?``...anyone can point out problems? Tell us how to differentiate between good pakis and bad pakis.

atif: as i recall, hitler used the reichstag fire to go after the communists, which he did. he did not need any pretexts to go after jews, having made his views on jews clear in his book.

the point you are trying to make is valid - but, like i said, the real danger is not that the US will put muslims in concentration camps (arjuns wishes notwithstanding), but that muslims will be left sitting high and dry as this great tide of migration to the west from developing countries takes place.

and by crying ``wolf`` where none exists, you leave the door open for the real wolf (who is not George Bush, rest assured, but guys like Putin who actually staged fake reasons to go after muslim chechens, to give just one of countless examples i could give).

Re: # 88

Atif, what is stupid is that you think Holocaust was racial profiling, and your effort to equate current environment faced by some muslims is somehow equal to that. Hitler didn’t need to profile Jews you idiot.

T Saab..you misunderstood me. I am only borrowing the lines from the ADL manifesto. And yes, you are absolutely right, it came out wrong. Everyone should speak up any discrimination. Personally (and I know that you are not interested in personal experiences) I welcome any scrutiny afforded to me at any place. It doesn’t make me any less (or bigger) of a person. It is not uncommon to people in new york to ask me if I am contractor, a cabbie, or a doctor…there are all kinds of guesses and whatnot.

kulharee #85 - ``The way to achieve that end (in my humble opinion) is to speak up against the morons who are the cause of such a system, rather than those who use it. ``

Great! When Hitler used the pretext of Riechestag burning to profile and arrest jews, the onus to prove their innocence was on jews! Got it.

P.S: You are very stupid.



arjun #86 - hahaha....who says an indian cant be funny :) See?!! Another reason to not profile indians as a permanently constipated bunch.

#85 kulharee - that makes it worse (i.e. you were being serious). :-(

as for ``those affected by profiling`` - please dont ever say that. you sound like a totally self-centered person who is bothered by the trivial manner in which it impacts you (the fact that airline security gives you an extra look).

step into the reality that people have to face - the hundreds of thousands of Pakistan who, like you and me, would have found their way to the west to make a life for themselves, and are now stuck. that is affect,

#76 by Kulharee on January 9, 2007 11:51am PT


But there should be nothing to be embarrassed about wanting to practice safe sex.


for jihadi2, safe sex is when the goat is heavily sedated...

Re: # 83

T Saab.. I wasn’t trying to be funny.

Atif, you can say whatever you want, but that’s not what you really mean, or even if you mean what you think you meant, it still means that there is more to it than that. The point is that your sophomoric effort at writing this essay aside, the issue of “profiling” is very hot and requires a thorough examination, and if those who are affected by it do not speak up (for why they are target of such a stupid practice) no one will speak up for them. The way to achieve that end (in my humble opinion) is to speak up against the morons who are the cause of such a system, rather than those who use it.

#83 i meant when you mean to be funny. hijackings and terrorism and what this is doing to the muslims (in terms of reduced chances of immigration to get better jobs and life styles in the west e.g.) is not something to be trivialized by focussing on the trivial impact it has on our personal lives.

#82 - ``but please write on something other than politics next time ``

taubo karo chacha...when we have pundits like you around, why should atif (of all people!), write about politics?

#79 atif: i agree that this article was written tongue in cheek (Kulharee, no tongue-puns please) and maybe i am making a bigger deal than it is.

but please write on something other than politics next time since i know you can do better. at least you made arjun`s day...... :-)

Scout # 77 - As usual, you are late in the game. Lobby, lawsuits, campaigns...all are underway. Inshallah, not just muslims, but my hindoo friends on this board - who are cheering profiling, will benefit too from this useless profiling too. Remember my hindoo friends, when germany burned in 1930s, it were not just the jews that burned with it, gypsies did too.

kulharee: you can be truly funny, but this time it fell flat. even jay leno has his bad days i guess. but thanks for the effort. :-)

#73 ``did we really need to know the kind of junk you carry with you? and why are you making such a fuss over the fact that the security people become alert when they see a young man of middle eastern/desi type looks?``

What junk? Condoms? Dont you use them? As for the ``fuss`` you allude to, let me do a tahmed on you: please cut and paste for me from the article where I have made a fuss of profiling. I even went ahead and called it a ``lovers` quarrel``. Its never too late in life to start making sense, Sultan of circular logic :)

Avkrishna # 69 - please dont take each one of my comment seriously. some are meant in jest. regards.

atif: i have not read the indians` posts here, but have no doubt they are having a great time at the expense not just of your article but stretching it to apply to all ``pakis``.

so if you get mad at me for pointing these things out to you - realize that you and urstruly can sometimes be a total embarrassment for any pakistani. you fit the caricature that pokershark (the hindu man pretending to be a muslim male fool as well as a muslim female fool) works so hard to put across on chowk.

but seriously, if you`re on some kind of list and feel that you shouldn`t be on the list, can`t you hire a lawyer and try to get yourself off the list instead of moping about it... actually DO something about it, lobby in DC whatever...

Re: # 73

T Saab.. Atif is the only condom carrying Desi frequent flyer (talk about cheap) . Others buy that at the hotel shop. Sure you pay more at the Hotel shop but it saves you embarrassment at the checkin. But there should be nothing to be embarrassed about wanting to practice safe sex. Atif was lucky that the security inspector was not a Mullah type, with long flowing beard, as I have seen a couple of those at JFK.

#69 by avkrishna on January 9, 2007 11:01am PT


is probably read only by FBI (I am sure even they would have delegated this site and it`s interactors to trash can by now)...


Why? chowk is a target rich environment for the agents hunting jihadis in America..

#36 atif/urstruly: as for arab airlines having the prettiest airhostesses, give me a break. from what i recall (and i used to travel a lot a few years back) most of them were european women with their hair bleached blonde, no doubt to cater to the cheap tastes and fantasies of arab men.

#54 atif: that was a question for saminasha. you ignored the questions i had for you which would have helped me remove my puzzlement on what exactly to make of your article. :-)

but more seriously - why is everything about your royal highness in this article? did we really need to know the kind of junk you carry with you? and why are you making such a fuss over the fact that the security people become alert when they see a young man of middle eastern/desi type looks? you should be glad they are alert, and appreciate that terrorists have had a special fascination with planes (not just 9/11, but also the shoe-bomber who was caught by an alert airhostess).

as for the question to saminasha - granted i was just trying to give saminasha a hard time since i know she means well. but nevertheless - the point i made is valid: she commented on the ethnicity of the security staff (Latinos) and on their poor command of english (!!). What does that have to do with their functions??

There is no circular logic here. Just plain common sense.

#70 by saminasha2 on January 9, 2007 11:04am PT

it doesn`t bother Indians because they know they`re not carrying box cutters and the search is just an additional step..

pakis OTOH...

Every suspected Pakistani to Jeddah when lands for Haj is x-rayed (for drugs), but not every Indian. Every flight from Columbia into the US goes thru the toughest scrutiny including x-ray searches of the passengers. Every inbound flight from the Islands into the US goes thru the same search. So profiling is alive and well. Wish Pakistan used profiling to single out Taliban supporters in the northern areas.

Re: # 64

chalta,

good for you! logically does that mean that all Indian men dont get special searches?

Re: # 59

``#50 - It turns out that when we muslims find something that is not to our liking, we stick around and try to change it...unlike injuns who simply bend over ``

Trying to change

... Like writing articles on Chowk, which among the US power centers is probably read only by FBI (I am sure even they would have delegated this site and it`s interactors to trash can by now)...

Or like Pakistanis who roll and bend over to every other captain of that rag-tag force, but not once fighting for their rights..

Comparisions from past are no longer valid, my friend

Rgds,
Avkrishna