Last Gasp of the Imperial Misadventure

US soldiers authorized to kill Iranians in Iraq: report

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US soldiers have been authorized to kill or capture Iranian operatives found in Iraq, the Washington Post has reported, citing US government and counterterrorism officials.

The authorization covers Iranian Revolutionary Guard and intelligence officers found in Iraq, but not Iranian civilians or diplomats, the Post reported.

#80 by freethinker

Gill Saheb, excepting Firdous-e-Bareen of the old man of the mountain .... woh dekha hai ... :)

masadi:

Another thing:

``Firdoss jo tera haiy kissi ney naheen dekha
Afrang ka har kar`iya haiy firdoss ki maanand`` (Iqbal)

Mr. masadi, ponder.

Mohammad Gill

masadi: #78

In your passionate hatred for the west, you have shut your eyes and mind on the merits of democracy that is operative in the west. i had said in my earlier post that nothing in the world is perfect. Everything can be improved if there is a system for improvement. The west is continually improving itself.

If one knows one`s weaknesses, there is hope that he/she can try to remove them. On the other hand, if he/she believes that he/she is perfect, there is no hope of any improvement. The west has a system which they continue improving. We have only theories, ideology, and big mouths.

A democratic government has a constitution which is man-made and can be modified according to the changing needs.

In the past, slavery was legal. The blacks were inhumanly exploited and victimised. In due time, it was declared constitutionally illegal. There is no doubt disparity exists even now but things are constantly changing for the better.

Moreover, everything is relative. Do you have any other alternative and better form of government which is working in any country of the Muslim world? Mr. masadi, open your eyes and your mind. Maybe, you`ll learn a few good things from the west.

Be well,

Mohammad Gill

freethinker writes <<< But the western democracy which is pragmatic and not totally ideological really works....The first time I became aware that as a human being I had some rights, was in Britain when I went there for my graduate education.... >>>

A typical over-generalized response from someone who has adapted to worshipping the West. Western ``democracy`` is not democracy, it does not work either for the world or for masses within those countries- if we take the example of the US ~ only when socialistic principles are incorporated within such ``democracies`` do they get any semblance of decency and humanism. You cannot generalize from your personal experience when aggregate statistics reveal that minorities suffer on all indicators within these so called democracies, are ghettoized and considered alien and segregated. The first time I discovered how fake and artificial humanity can become, how objectified they get and how they can consider other human beings ``less`` both personally and institutionally is when I ventured into the West, any my personal experience is borne out by data, so all I can say Mr. Gill is that in your intoxication you weren`t observing close enough.

freethinker writes <<>>

A typical over-generalized response from someone who has adapted to worshipping the West. Western ``democracy`` is not democracy, it does not work either for the world or for masses within those countries- if we take the example of the US ~ only when socialistic principles are incorporated within such ``democracies`` do they get any semblance of decency and humanism. You cannot generalize from your personal experience when aggregate statistics reveal that minorities suffer on all indicators within these so called democracies, are ghettoized and considered alien and segregated. The first time I discovered how fake and artificial humanity can become, how objectified they get and how they can consider other human beings ``less`` both personally and institutionally is when I ventured into the West, any my personal experience is borne out by data, so all I can say Mr. Gill is that in your intoxication you weren`t observing close enough.

Feroz writes <<< There can be no last gasp of imperialism as long as history lasts because that would be the end of the history itself. >>>

History ``ends`` everytime an institutional structure changes. There is no logical necessity for history to repeat itself. Many factors come together to determine that ``history``, merely defaulting to historical determinism is an easy escape, or an attempt at legitmizing the status quo. The ``imperialism`` of the past is not the same as current day imperialism, neither is there any guarantee that it will be the same in the future. With every change come new hopes for liberation and new challenges that the imperialists have to face, otherwise they would never alter the structures that ensure their domination.

Here is a very pertinent excerpt for a great American soldier`s speech.

``War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we`ll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn`t go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn`t a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its ``finger men`` to point out enemies, its ``muscle men`` to destroy enemies, its ``brain men`` to plan war preparations, and a ``Big Boss`` Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country`s most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from a Lieutenant to a General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.``

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, Commandant US Marine Corps

I have noticed with some amusement that certain people have become very silent in several of these matters. These are the ones who used to spew a lot of hot air and smoke telling everyone how America was not an imperialist power and why Iran war was such a wonderful idea. What happened? Are they now embarrased for the nonesense they believed and vomitted out on these pages? Or were they just plain idiots who are too scared to squeek? Just wondering.

The truth of the matter is that facts cannot be argued with. NO COUNTRY, not even the former evil Soviet Union has committed as much foreign aggression over the last century and a half as has the United States. If there is one force of International Terror and Evil that surpasses ALL OTHERS, it is the ``FEDERAL GOVERNEMT`` of the United States.

Following is an abbreviated chrnology of US imperial aggression:

ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.
CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners` strike.
HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d Alene mining region.
OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914.
HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA 1907 Troops ``Dollar Diplomacy`` protectorate set up.
HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners` strike by Army.
MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I 1917-18 naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.
RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks
PANAMA 1918-20 Troops ``Police duty`` during unrest after elections.
HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.
CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.
HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov`t nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal`s return.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; ``carpet-bombs`` countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov`t.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994-? Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be ``terrorist`` nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998-? Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime. Forces also engaged in neighboring Pakistan.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002 Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Muslim Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into US combat missions in Sulu Archipelago next to Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Second Gulf War launched for ``regime change`` in Baghdad. US, joined by UK and Australia, attacks from Kuwait, other Gulf states, and European and US bases.

...SR

Re: # 59 Urstruly {``... first point is if voting (computer based as you suggested or paper based) then why not make it compulsory under penalty of law for every adult to vote...``}

You seem to have misunderstood my contention. I say NO casting of ballots at all.

(``...it is unimportant who has the right to cast votes. What really matters is who counts those votes...`` Josef Stalin)

The computer should randomly SELECT a list of viable representatives from the general voters` lists. This would produce a ``representative sample`` which will more accurately reflect (thus ``represent``) we the people... Just like ``jury duty``, this should be called ``Congress Duty``... So there will be no need to secure re-election money and do dastardly deeds for it. Plus the staffers will keep them advised and informed. As it is, most of the work is done by the staff. The professional politicians mostly spend their time in self-promotion any how. They do very little.

I tell you that honesty is politics will increase ten fold once professional politicians are out and ``Joe Average`` gets in there. Surely you`ll also have the school teachers, engineers, doctors, lawyers in there in addition to machinists, truck drivers, court room clerks and plumbers.

There will be many more fresh perspectives than we get from the Harvard MBAs and Yale Lawyers today. Of course, certain screening criteria would have to be applied. For example, before starting their term of office the finalists would be put through a crash course of sorts and then somehow ``tested`` to rule out the total imbiciles.

...SR

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If we take into account the cases of Algeria, Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, Vanzuella etc. it is quite evident that West will never let a democratic rule flourish in any muslim country unless it is corrupt, unconstitutional, consist of puppets, and thugs; pakistan, egypt, afghanistan, iraq etc are good examples

Zeemax: #66

Our ideology may be the best one in the world but are we satisfied with the kind of government that we have in Pakistan or in any other Muslim country? The different forms of western democracy are working for the common good of their people. Nothing is perfect in the world; we can find faults in everything. But the western democracy which is pragmatic and not totally ideological really works.

I don’t know where you are presently living but I tell you of my personal experiences. The first time I became aware that as a human being I had some rights, was in Britain when I went there for my graduate education. Although I was not a British citizen, I had more or less the same rights that they had. Life of a common man is quite peaceful in the U.S. where I currently live.

I worked in the Detroit Water & Sewerage Department and I rose quickly through the cadres and superseded many whites who were born citizens simply because my credentials were superior to theirs. I don’t mean everything is hunky-dory here. I experienced racial discrimination when I was looking for my first job. I felt bitter but I also realized that the discrimination in Pakistan was far worse. I don’t mean to win any points in any argument but I honestly believe that it would be good for Pakistanis and other Muslims if we could adopt a western style of democratic government in our ethnic countries. If the label of the “western” is hurtful, try to Islamize it.

I also love Iqbal’s poetry but I don’t agree with his philosophy. This philosophy is keeping the Muslim world backward.

With regards,

Mohammad Gill

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Re: # 63

Dear ferozk:

I might have misunderstood it but I think the author did not mean to say we are witnessing the death of imperialism. I think the author was trying to opine that the current period is the last gasp of imperial misadventure [in Iraq]. I guess, there is good worth to this opinion.

You are right imperialism will stay alive and well for as long an innate desire for adventure and innovation for producing material in surplus is present in humans.

Regards, Tahir

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