The Princess and the Alley Cats

Re: # 68 Yes, I`m white. That`s why this bothers me - racism. Not everyone over here is like the big brother contestants. The UK has many very positive links with India and Pakistan and I don`t like seeing that damaged by a few select people who don`t represent Britons as a whole.

As for why I`m on a desi/pak site, *that`s* a different matter.... :)

This all makes me wonder how Indians/Pakistanis view British, what they think they are really like.
I know for my part what a lot of British think of Indians and Pakistanis, (positive and negative) and some of the misconceptions and attitudes.
Tell me - you don`t really think we are *all* like Jade Goody and Danielle Lloyd...do you? *cringe*

#67 by abskii

wtf are you? I`m sorry ... you sound like you`re a white caucasian, not just the complexion. Care to explain?

Re: # 55 This is an issue too. In many ways, racism against whites just is not recognised. Yet it painfully exists and I have been on the recieving end many times.

I agree that if I were to be in the Desi big brother house, my colour would be commented on, I`d be referred to as `the English one`, my language criticised, and if I used fake tan `oh, she`s trying to be brown. I fear it wouldn`t be pointed out as racist (whether it was or wasn`t is a different matter), and any complaint I made about it treated much differently.

#65 by sadna

I didn`t `cleverly` leave anything out. It was just that particular para didn`t call for any comment. It was just a rant on your part calling someone `white trash` which is racist too, without going further into the reason why Goody did it in the first place, which I explained in my other answers. She`s from a cockney background but knows enough about hindu desis.

As for the rest of your post, remember, respect is earned, never demanded. And you guys don`t even demand it, let alone `earn` it ...

#64

``You make many interesting arguments. Let`s walk through these, shall we? ``

Yet you cleverly left this statement of mine out :

``How the heck can ``white trash`` consider themselves representative of or equal to upper class English or desi society is the rant of this author too. So you have racism and class prejudice on Jade Goody`s side countered by racism and class prejudice of those who consider themselves her betters.

Shilpa who managed to avoid that pitfall and break the rules by doing so is the one zeemax blames. ``

Shilpa avoided the pitfall of being racist in her response. If this is a hindu characteristic according to you, then fine, I am happy about that. It isn`t a hindu characteristic according to me, I think it is just good sense.

Your premise is that Shilpa/Imran can have dignity and self respect only if she/he are respected/accepted by whites. My premise is that Shilpa can have dignity and self respect only if she behaves with dignity and self respect. This demonstrates that your and my value systems are too different to offer further scope for agreement or discussion.

As for Imran Khan he is a hypocrite about women however depraved you consider Western society to be. And btw, the hudood ordinances are not the only source of grievious violations of women`s basic rights going on in that region.

#46 by sadna

You make many interesting arguments. Let`s walk through these, shall we?

I think the bigger problem is Imran Khan not accepting white women er society on their own terms ...

True. Only on his own terms. And the British society didn`t complain, did they? Rather they embraced him.

...and though he was happy to enjoy the freedom granted to white women to sleep around, he has not been willing to speak out against the tribal restrictions on women`s basic rights(forget about their right to sleep around) in his own home region.

Also true. When he was a playboy in the upper crust of the white society, he became aware of its moral bankruptcy which is why he married Jemima who loved him for what he was, and willing to accompany him back to Pakistan, rather than any other rich socialite with whom he could have lived happily ever after in a mansion in Knights bridge.

The second part of your statement is factually incorrect. He supported the bill against the hudood ordinance, as well as supports end of tribal justice system wherever it is prevalent, in favour of strengthening of the judiciary. That`s his party`s name in fact.

See, if you don`t accept that the world is divided into two classes, one privileged and the other irrelevant, you can`t win Zeemax`s and his fellow elites` approval. Zeemax thinks the white woman was racist because she didn`t defer to the higher class desi woman.

I really don`t know how you arrive at the interpretation of what I had said. I had never brought Shilpa`s higher class into it. The white woman was racist because even though she is unrefined, loud, ugly, barely coherent, still she had her white skin on her side where she felt confident enough to abuse Shilpa with impunity. And Shilpa accepted all of it in a tacit recognition of her adversary`s `single` strong asset overpowering all of her own.

Shilpa who managed to avoid that pitfall and broke the rules by doing so is the one zeemax blames.

Broke what rules? Shilpa didn`t break any rules. She was expected to be a submissive desi, and that`s exactly what she was. No surprises there. That`s my beef with her.

She should have been firm and confronted her adversaries on the same racist grounds by telling her to go back to her cockney upbringing, or better yet, go look in a mirror. Instead, she retreated in the face of an assault to weep silently in the background.

Alas, that is the mindset of particularly the desis of hindu background, no matter how successful they may be in their own little spheres. They must display enough dignity to announce that the days of colonised `locals` are long gone, and now they have come back in their own.

That`s what Imran Khan did. That`s why they all laid at his feet.

I saw some clips on youtube. Shilpa showed remarkable attitudes of grace akin to our region. She was always well dressed and tidy rather than the tramps three others looked. The third one who kept biting the pillow seemed most sheepish. Shilpa was cornered due to events in the show and showed dignity, poise and grace. Perhaps the most damaging thing to Goody were the conclusive comments of Shipa`s friend who was consoling her when she wept.
Cheerios

#57 by nb Re: # 41

....Imran never was accepted, and has a pretty strong accent.

He was/is totally accepted. His accent is neither British nor the typical lilting Desi, but a uniquely confident version of his own with influence of neither.

Did you ever read the Vanity Fair article about the marriage whien they still lived in Pakistan? Do you read what the Harpers and Vanity Fairs of the world say now?

I have read some of that sort but I guess they would be saying how their house had basic facilities etc ... that`s how Imran chose to live, with family and not apart in luxury. But that`s not why the marriage broke up. It was because of Imran`s preoccupation with politics and the opposing parties attacking Jemima as a Jewess and a thief (the antiquities issue). Nothing racist in the British press as far as Imran is concerned. Why do you think is that?

#58 by nb ...contd...

... and why is it important to you and arjun in this context?...

It`s not important to me, but it is important to Arjun because that`s the only thing he finds to get an iota of pride in being a desi. Isn`t there anything else?

#58 by nb

Agha Hasan Abedi of BCCI. His was not buying up a bunch of steel factories, but buying up the entire world financial system. He almost succeeded mind you, but when you`re lending your private jet to Jimmy Carter for visits to China, or becoming the central banker for much of Africa, or managing the national reserves of Peru, Colombia and Panama, it becomes a very dangerous game.

#48 by arjun2

That`s not what Lord Goldsmith`s daughter, or Goldie Hawn, or for that matter the Princess of Wales thought of either Imran or Dr. Hasnat when she went to Faisalabad to meet his mom and would have got married to him if he hadn`t distanced himself for some reason.

There is a more fundamental issue here.

Re: # 28
who was it that Pakistan produced, and why is it important to you and arjun in this context?

Re: # 41
I`m sorry, you have no idea of what you are talking about....Imran never was accepted, and has a pretty strong accent. You clearly have no idea of the British upper classes. I am not one of them obviously, but I do know this. Did you ever read the Vanity Fair article about the marriage whien they still lived in Pakistan? Do you read what the Harpers and Vanity Fairs of the world say now?

{``The reality is that most Brits are poorly educated, narrow minded and with little thirst to learn and experience anything beyond their `pie and mash` dinners and British beer.``}

Farouq Sahib,

OK, OK, I believe you if you are referring to Tony Blair. But how about the millions of Oxford and Cambridge-educated English gentlemen and ladies with perfect BBC accents who ride their well-behaved ponies to a polite game of polo and discuss important international issues in Hyde Park in a manner much more civilized than the misfits of Chowk?

Imran was a superstar in England BEFORE he went out with and then married Jemima because of his cricketing prowess and his very good looks.

He is the only overseas desi who has achieved that in the UK (and Australia).

---

kaalchakra post 32: exactly.

indian and pakistani society is much more racist than Britain is. Imagine if this was BB India/Pak (is there one?) and a C-list British celeb (say Daniella Lloyd) was the only white housemate and 3 desi female housemates made fun of her culture and called her a gori or made insinuations about her , do you think so many desis would make such a big deal out of it?

Desis live in the West and slag it off! I was in a little Turkish cafe the other day and a couple of India middle aged men were sitting on the table next to mine. I didn`t know them but they were talking about how `haraami` these Europeans are and they kept on saying `yeh itne behncho* hain`.