Punjab: The Land of Five Rivers

heyy u didnt describe MUTAN very well ...
where is multani khusa,
multani sohan hulwa,
multani kurta,
bed sheetz??????????
wat abt gate way of multan??? itz not only the city of saints ..
it is also known as the city of sun ......shah shams ke sehr main .....
...multani mitti ??saraiki language???

Re: # 50


[.....The word Raja has equivalence to word Regis in Latin which again means King etc. ]

Not surprisingly, well considered Kamath.....

We read that the first ‘word’ ever to pass from the lips of a human would probably have been `UG` !!

But, that `UG` was probably understood by the entire population of the world as it was.

The land mass known as Earth was torn apart and, as a consequence, so was it`s inhabitants; to all the farthest corners of the world and through the distances created by this event, its inhabitants became predisposed to oblivion.

The unification of a people is not achieved by proliferating beliefs but rather by improving means of communication; not only within the confines of one’s own borders but beyond, into territories occupied by others.

Re: # 49

Never before in the history of mankind has so much dialogue been exchanged between peoples of other nations!!!

It is important to retain one`s knowledge of one`s own language.

It is equally important to learn more about another`s time and space and language in order to fully appreciate the varying points of view that exist today.

It is neither a coincidence (here`s that word again Dr Sohail!!) nor an accident that we converse in what is sometimes called the `universal language` as it only by this means that we can openly communicate and allow ourselves to be understood by more than just `our own kind`, whatever that `kind` may be.

Let`s embrace the opportunity and move forward and further still......

Re: # 47

[................ Yes, the harsh reality of partition is there - today. Yes, there have been several wars and a lot of bloodshed between the two. There have been more wars and even more bloodshed between Muslims of the two main sects]......................

Several??? There have been wars and bloodshed for millions of years!!!!!

Yes, it is definitely time to stop the rediscovery, reinvention and perpetuation of our past.

Yes, leave the past in the annals of history where it belongs and move forward in time to the present day and beyond!!

Re: # 46

Well said................

Re: # 37

Viz:http://www.dailyindia.com/show/105136.php/NRI-girl-wins-title-Miss-World-Punjaban

---

2006-

Ludhiana, Jan. 19 (ANI): Japjee Khera, an NRI girl has been crowned `Miss World Punjaban 2006` - the most beautiful Punjabi girl in the world.

``Living in the West, one must live in close quarters with one`s own language and culture. When you walk, people don`t identify you with clothes but with your personality. One should develop such an image while living abroad,`` said Japjee, after winning the title.

``The most beautiful, talented, and a true Punjabi`` Japjee, won out of 250 contestants, who participated in the ninth exclusive international beauty pageant.

``I want to open centres around the world where everyone can come and learn the Punjabi language. It`s not limited to the people of Punjabi origin; even Englishmen can also learn the language. I want to make people aware of Punjabi culture and traditions. Along with, I will continue my studies further to achieve the best,`` she added.

Having already pledged to donate her eyes after her death, she is now aspiring to start her career in films and has already acted in a Punjabi TV serial with ETC channel.

The `Miss World Punjaban` contest envisages bringing Punjabi girls on stage. Any Punjabi girl, who is beautiful, and has an extensive knowledge of Punjabi culture, its traditions and rituals, are eligible for the contest.

It was Jasmer Singh Dhatt`s idea to organise such events and he began with the Punjaban title 13 years ago. He then took it to `Miss World Punjaban`.

``Miss World Punjaban is a unique contest and not like the others where western style is being followed and girls are put on stage in short dresses. It`s a competition where the beauty is judged on the complete personality and not solely on her physical charms. Living in any part of the world, the Punjabi girl, who is 17 to 25 years old, loves Punjabi culture, and 5` 4`` tall or more can participate in the competition,`` said Dhatt.

The event was organised by Punjabi Sabhayacharak Sath, a brainchild of Jasmer Singh Dhatt. (ANI)

Re: # 62

viz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_(India)

``The Punjabi culture is one of self-dependence, self-reliance and hard work, which have made Punjabis statistically on average the wealthiest in India. These character traits comes from Punjab`s difficult history, particularly due to the number of outside invasions, (Greeks, Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Mughals and Afghans), and retaliation from Punjabis in response to these incredibly hostile acts. This heroism of Punjabis was highlighted with Alexander the Great`s invasion of Punjab. One of the most notable being the Punjabi King Porus & his army`s defence of Punjab. In a letter to his mother he wrote, ``I am involved in the land of a leonine and brave people, where every foot of the ground is like a well of steel, confronting my soldier. You have brought only one son into the world, but everyone in this land can be called an Alexander.”[1] Some of India`s best intellectuals, business people, sports people, artists, military and political leaders come from this state. Punjabis customarily value and show great respect for their traditions and history. Traditional historic Punjabi culture is renowned for its tolerance, progressive and logical approach to life. The state is the location of one of the world`s first and oldest civilizations, the Indus Valley Civilization, India`s first civilization. As a consequence it has some of the richest cultural history in the world``


viz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_people

Punjabi Population:- approximately 120 million

Pakistan: 72,000,000
India: 30,056,000
United Kingdom: 1,051,000
Saudi Arabia: 526,000
Canada: 298,000
Myanmar: 119,000
UAE: 110,000
United States: c. 100,000
Malaysia: 83,000
Australia: 78,000
New Zealand: 12,000
Singapore: 10,000

viz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Punjabis.JPG

Bulleh Shah- Punjabi poet
Guru Nanak - Founder of Sikhism
Noor Jehan - a Pakistani Punjabi actress
Nawaz Sharif - Prime Minister of Pakistan

I`m sure this list can be extended - this call goes out to all 120 million to assist Faizanhafeez o in his quest to find ``the notable men and women Punjab has produced``

Re: # 4
Close, but not entirely correct, the author is more accurate.

Studies have shown that the planet Earth was formed approximately 4.5 BILLION years ago. Once the gases subsided and the molten materials cooled, solid rock formed and Earth’s geological history began.

It was not till about 4 THOUSAND MILLION YEARS LATER that the first animals walked the earth. This is the period in time more commonly referred to as THE PRECAMBRIAN ERA. This period is generally accepted as extending from 4.5 million years (Hadean Period) through to 543 million years (Neoproterozoic Period); it also includes several other important periods within this time frame.

It is also during the Precambrian Era, which represents about seven-eighths of the Earth’s history, that, not only the most important geological events took place, but the most important events in biological history took place. As the atmosphere became more enriched with oxygen and just before the end of the Precambrian Era, the first animals evolved

Although homosapiens had already evolved and dispersed all over the world by the Holocene period, the last 10,000 years is known as Anthropogene, arbitrarily known as the “Age of Man”. This is the period of humanity`s recorded history and the rise and fall of its civilizations.

It was during the early part of the Precambrian Era that the first tectonic plates arose and began to move, exposing more and more land mass.

The Tethyan Trench existed in the northern part of the Tethys Ocean during the Jurassic Era. The Jurassic Era occupying the period 200 million to 144 million years ago. This trench CLOSED the Tethys Ocean during the latter part of the Miocene Era (about 5 million years ago). The Tethys Ocean existed between the continents of Gondwana and Laurasia before the opening of the Indian Ocean.

India, Indonesia as well as the Indian Ocean now occupy the area once covered by the Tethys Ocean.

It is therefore more probable that the area surrounding the modern day Kalar Kahar was formed during this time and not less than 15 million years ago as you claim.

I’m very interested in learning more about the Panthassalic Ocean if you’d care to elaborate.

Too sketchy!

It did not mention even the city of Attock, situated at the point on the Indus river whereat Alexander, the great, crossed the river and established the city, the correct name of which, in my view, is Attic or Attica, meaning relating to Athens (Athens wala) which got corrupted to Attock, where a famous Attock Fort built by Akbar, the great, also stands majestic at the bank of the river. So here the two Greats left their enduring marks on history of India. Again, Sikandar Hayyat Khan, the great, who was the first governor and prime minister of the United Punjab, also belonged to Attock District.

the reason why guys from Pak have gonoe to India is to see the various temples and study how the deities and temples are arranged so as to have a similar sort of layout... as you can imagine there are not that many big Hindu temples in Pak!

Dost Mitter # 60

(BTW, are you still in Sri Lanka?)

Yes. Still in Colombo. Will be here until Oct 07.

Recently visited Nuwara Eilya in hill country from where Rawana (of Ramayana) belonged. Saw the Sita`s temple.

Do come .... my son has migrated to Canada from US. Will visit you probably in end 2007.

regards

nhk

#62 by faizanhafeez on January 23, 2007 11:21am PT
{``Can anyone guide me to a source: book or a web site which lists the notable men and women Punjab has produced. ``}


Hafeez Sahib,
There is a two paragraph pamphlet entitled ``Punjabi Civilization`` by Fakhr Butt. It has a comprehensive list of three names of notable men and women that Punjab has produced.

Where is the author? No where to be seen to replyto reader`s comments!
Kamath

Where is the author? No where to be seen to replyto reader`s comments!
Kamath

#63

thanks

Re: # 61


http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/panja.html

Can anyone guide me to a source: book or a web site which lists the notable men and women Punjab has produced.
Generally it appears that Punjab in comparison (area and population) has produced more notables then any other state of similar size in the subcontinent, close matches would be Bengal or UP.
My knowledge of Punjab history and especially of other states is sketchy.
Help and guidance will be appreciated.

#36 by Urstruly on January 22, 2007 11:25am PT
Re: # 31
drlokraj

My information about the picture is also from a sikh website, which tells a slightly different acoount. Anyway thanks for the information.

Interesting to know that there are sikhs who dont know their own history!
Can you post the link for that website?

nazarhayatkhan:

``Presently, a team of 5 archeologist is visiting India to import gods to inhabitate the seven archeological sites in the Katas Raj area.``

Thanks for the good news. [One would have thought, though, that with a large Hindu population in Sindh, they would not need to go to India for statues]

BTW, are you still in Sri Lanka?

To all Indian Punjabis --

talk to your older generation people. They will fondly recall the phrase
``Jin Lahore naheen vekhyaa, oh janmyaa ee naheen``...

Another beutiful place worthy of mention is the hydro-works at Panjnad. Anyone been there?

Ranjit #44

Just look at people like .... zeemax, they would not hesitate to personally dispatch you to the afterworld, simply because of your religion. ``

Ranjit Bhai, please believe me I have no such intention ... :-)

Re: # 30
Is there one can see such pictures of long gonr time, they are evocative.
I will real like see such old pictures. Some good pictures of long gone era can be found in Winton Churchill work ``history of english speaking people``

Re: # 53
Let me explain what I mean. That liberating sublime ethos , sublimation, let live and let live and finding middle ground ( Buddhist ethos or millue whatever one can say)is not found in modern punjab or nonviolence or middle ground. In astonishing efficiency and killing all Punjabi`s purified their areas and and largest demographic change took place in short time. There is still not sympthy or emphathy for what they did to humans. They all justify for all reasons. There is no repentence or real sad feeling . That is reason I said they are very practical people, get over and start again is strength.

Dost Mitter

Since last time you visited Katas Raj, the place has undergone a renovation. This renovation has been done with technical assisstance from India. Finally, there seems to be some change of heart in the Punjabis here to look after the ancient heritage.

Presently, a team of 5 archeologist is visiting India to import gods to inhabitate the seven archeological sites in the Katas Raj area.

nhk

I hope writer will write about Punjab in last 100 years it will be more interesting . As many people have wrong Idea about Punjabi people as Agricultural and Sepoy people with hardworking ethics. I do not understand what is connection left between long past Buddhist time as people either follow Muslim , sikh or hindu religion. There may be under current but its hard to fathom if you look at typical Punjabi Munda. Punjabis are like americans of southeast asia in subcontinet with good qualities and propertise.

Re: # 49
Mr. K similarity is specially good in numbers one to ten.( ITs amazing for uninformed while its so natural who can think of migration of people and scientic things) Arab claim they invented numerals then persians copied then indians/Pakistanies copied, keep in mind noth south and or west east direction many( not all) large asian rivers river.
The indogermanic language have speciality of changing verb form with according to gender and tense also in classical sense any word can be placed at most places in sentence all this makes more difficult and one has to remember lot.
Incidently russian kind of follows similar grammer. Instead of words I look to grammer to find roots then German and Sanskrut grammer is ``SAME`` russian is similar. Many people gravitate to see language similar if words are similar that is wrong way, the DNA of language is GRAMMER not words. I have reasonable reading capacity in German and russian and this noted long back and due to Grammer DNA imprints. ( Hindi and URDU Grammer is same , though people are of different race)
Have good day.

Re: # 6
The author did not bother to to do any independent reading of history here.
Recently Razi Azmi the Dailytimes colomnist wrote that ``writing history in Pakistan is history`` few years ago, prof. Ayesha Jalal , a McArthur Foundation scholar and Prof of Indian History at Tuft lamented that in Pakistan there no more historians but only idealogues!

K.K.Aziz a esteemed and reputrable Pakistani historian wrote a book called ,``Murder of History`` in Pakistan. His observations after so many books in Pak School sytem showed selective, distorted and falsified history fed down the throats of young people . All done in the interest of promoting Two Nation Theory and intensely nationallistic in nature.

Oh well what can you do?

Kamath

BTW: similar things have been attempted by BJP in India too!

Re: # 47

BTW I am sure you perhaps know that the word Rajput comes from the word Raja-Putra- a Sanskrit word- which means son of Raja - a prince!

The word Raja has equivalence to word Regis in Latin which again means King etc.

Kamath

Re: # 16
Sceptical:
I have studied the history of Indo-Iranian branch of family of the Indo-European languages. Interestingly once I read the comparison of an old hymn in old Persian against and its translation to old Sanskrit. They are so close! eg; Arya -mehr vs Arya xxxx etc. The word aap i also means water in Afghani langauge!

Just a musing here! Perhaps Persians are the only people who did not loose their langauge to Arabic after Muslim invasions of Persia which-perhaps prevented catstropic loss of Persian langauge, history, soul and its quintessence. Thanks to Allah!

Just imagine what happened to langauge of the Copts and others in the Middle Eastern people. All was wiped out and replaced by Arabic.. Unfortunately, great deal of Persian language today I am told - is Arabized. What a pity!

Kamath

#43 {``salim bhai
dukhti ragh pay haaTh mat rakho
The area was called `Saptsindhu` before the name `Punjab` came into existence.``}

Hakeem Sahib,
My apologies for inadvertently sprinkling salt your wounds. :) The tragedy of Punjab is a subset of the greater tragedy of the ripping apart of Hindustan. :( Let`s solve the bigger problem and the smaller mistakes will obviously correct themselves - Kashmir, Punjab, Pandits, Bangladesh, oppression of Ahmedis, ...


You are right about Saptsindhu. Also, not too long ago there was a ``Doab,`` the area of UP between Ganga and Jamna.

Ranjit #44 {``Sirjee, I understand your pain but it is time for us Indians to stop looking at the other side of the border. .... Just look at people like urstruly or zeemax, who are punjabi muslims and rajputs at that. Yet they would not hesitate to personally dispatch you to the afterworld, simply because of your religion. ``}

Ranjit Bhai,
I disagree with you vehemently. Yes, the harsh reality of partition is there - today. Yes, there have been several wars and a lot of bloodshed between the two. There have been more wars and even more bloodshed between Muslims of the two main sects. Just look at the Shia/Sunni fratricide in Iraq, the Sunni/Sunni bloodletting in East Pakistan/Bangladesh, the Sunni/Sunni genocide in Darfur, and now Somalia. So, please don`t write off your brethren by race, by language, by custom, and most importantly by a shared heritage just on the basis of religion. Muslims have killed Hindus, Hindus have killed Sikhs, and Sikhs have killed Muslims, and then each has killed the other two and worse, each has also killed many sharing the same religion.

As a Pakistani Rajput, I have nothing but love and affection for my brethren across the border - Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, and Christian. Long live the land we all love as Hindustan.

article seems like something out of a cheap Paki promo mag that you see lying round some travel agents in PK...

Punjab is nice in the spring when you see green fields and orange orchards in full bloom... all other times of year it is horrible to be in... winter is too cold and summer is too hot... only say cause i have been there then and know the score... khair fer vi Punjab is pretty...

jindey ravo

PS

Its stupid to say one religion`s women followers are pretty... if you have three Punjabi Jutt women, one a Sikh one a Muslim, and one a Hindu, how can you say one is prettier than the other cause she is Muslim/Sikh/Hindu when in fact they are the same race who happen to follow a different religion!!!

the sooner we get rid of these myths the better!!!!

Article is informational type and I don`t think the author tried to make any political point by mentioning something or not mentioning something. Although pakistanis generally start their history with advent of Islam, signs of preislamic and inbetween histories is all around us. Lahore museum is a good example. it has good amount of pre-vedic, pre-islamic, budhist, sikh and british colonial era pieces.
as for boundaries of Punjab...some people think name is punj do-aabs meaning 5 regions between the rivers starting with Sindh river.

Re:drlokraj

Sirjee, I understand your pain but it is time for us Indians to stop looking at the other side of the border. It is an alien land inhabited by alien people who want nothing to do with us. That is the harsh reality, cruel as it may sound. Yes, there are superficial similarities but putting that aside, those people would get tremendous pleasure and satisfaction from killing you and your kids, if they ever got the chance. Just look at people like urstruly or zeemax, who are punjabi muslims and rajputs at that. Yet they would not hesitate to personally dispatch you to the afterworld, simply because of your religion.

The reality is that what happened to our west is a testimonial about the total defeat of hinduism in those lands. We did not protect what we had received from our forefathers. We did not robustly compete with the new faith and prevent mass conversions from day 1. We did not try to lure the recent converts back to hinduism. We did not try to unite with our fellow co-religion followers across north india to defend our faith. We did not even try to understand the robust nature of our competition. In other words, we did not put up a fight in the theological or practical space. Why was that? Because we DID NOT CARE. We did not care about our land, our religion, our people and our way of life. As a result, we lost all of it. Now what is the point of sobbing and crying about it? We are like the Palestinians who look at Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa and cry at night, wishing that their forefathers and fought to the last person before losing it. Similarly we look at Lahore and Karachi and cry about it, totally impotent to do anything anymore.

The only realistic thing to do is to learn a lesson for the future and not repeat that mistake again. I dont think we hindus have still learnt the lesson, based on how lackadaisically we take India for granted. As late as the 1990s, the Kashmiri pandits got kicked out of Kashmir and are rotting in refugee camps, while they daydream about Srinagar. Even today, the demographics are changing in our border areas, especially in Bengal. While I am not advocating communalism or negating secularism, I do wish that we recognize that India is the last best hope for hindus and zealously guard it. If we lose it, we will lose everything.

#39,42

salim bhai

dukhti ragh pay haaTh mat rakho

The area was called `Saptsindhu` before the name `Punjab` came into existence.

As for East Punjab, all I can say is that Punjab without Lahore is like:

UP without Lucknow
Bengal without Calcutta
Maharashtra without Mumbai
Agra without the Taj
Kashmir without the Vale
England without London
Brazil without Rio
Italy without Rome
Palestine without Jerusalem
Turkey without Istanbul
Hilton without Paris

#39, {``anybody has any photos of the afore-mentioned paki beauties, who supposedly in live in the narrow streets in Rawalpindi?... ``}

Mohar Bhayya,
Before you ask me to expand on the ``clearance`` issue, let me just say that Punjab is also the food basket of the subcontinent. :)

Mohar #37 {``anybody has any photos of the afore-mentioned paki beauties, who supposedly in live in the narrow streets in Rawalpindi?... ``}

Moohar Bhayya,
The beauties are secluded in the narrow streets because of a clearance issue. :)

Nadeem,
Thank you for sharing this interesting article about what to see in Punjab. Yes, Punjab is truly blessed with rivers and mountains and historical sites. Punjab is incomplete without Amritsar, Panipat, Sirhind, Simla, and other places in the east. Sutlej and Beas are definitely two of the fiver rivers - Jhelum, Chenab, and Ravi being the other three. Counting the Indus as one of the five is not historically correct. In ancient times, there may have been a land of 7 rivers - when you count Ganga and Yamuna also. :) Also, from a modern perspective one cannot ignore Jullundur, Patiala, Ambala, and Ferozpore.

Any time you break something in half, you are left with only half the beauty, half the value, half the power, and half the effect.

#4 {``Kalar Kahar was probably formed less than 15 million years ago (not 600 million!!) ``}

One thing this guy really knows something about is old age. I guess he was right there witnessing the formation of Kalar Kahar.

Re: # 23

we keep hearing about the ``most beautiful girls of pakistan``... but never seen any, not even photos... anybody has any photos of the afore-mentioned paki beauties, who supposedly in live in the narrow streets in Rawalpindi?... :)

Re: # 31
drlokraj

My information about the picture is also from a sikh website, which tells a slightly different acoount. Anyway thanks for the information.

Re: # 34

During that time, when I was growing up, it was hard for me to imagine that sikhs once lived among us. Until my teenage years when I saw the first live sikh on the mountain, the only sikh I knew was my great aunt. Legend had it that she elopped with the Colonel Sahib- my great uncle when he was stationed in Amritsar. What an elegant woman she was - at 75 or 80 when I saw her she seemed to be made out of flour dough; with her hair absolutely white as snowhite and an imported havana cigar in her hand she looked like Queen Elizabeth.

Urstruly#30:

The sikhnis your relatives talked about were from the same area; the sikhnis you saw could be from anywhere in Punjab or other parts of India. So, your relaitves may not have been wrong.

``This article is about ``The Land of Five Rivers``, which is Western Punjab, which is in Pakistan.

Sorry.``

Zeemax got a compartment in his Metric geography exam. Sutlej and Beas are in east Punjab.

The article was not bd at all, too bad the Author did not mention the village of Bhaun which has given birth to many famous and notable people..MS Oberoi of Oberoi hotels is from Bhaun.

Punjab (pre `47)

#30

Sikhs were not protesting for cutting wood or anything like that. If you look at the painting, there are lot of utensils etc. Actually, this train carried group of sikhs led by newly formed SGPC (Shiromani Gurudwra Prabandhak Committe) who were going to protest against the British backed mahant of the gurudwara Nankana Sahib and many local sikhs gathered at Hasan Abdal with langar for the travelling sikhs. The local govt. refused stop the train. It was then that the local sikhs decided to stop the train by all means and they decided to lay on the tracks. The train stopped after passing over some. This was the first major incident which occured during the gurudwara reforms movement. 120 of the pilgrim agitators were slain within the premises of the gurudwara with the support of the goons of the mahant (Sewa Das)provided by the british govt.

Re: # 26

The following picture is another gem of this area, the Gurdwara Punja sahib in Hasan abdal. This portrait is of an incident that happened in 1920s when British prevented Sikhs from cutting the wood in the area and they protested by lying down on the railway tracks. The area has not changed much despite explosive construction, most of it still remains below the treeline.



If you look closely on the very top of the mountain there is a building which is the Mousoleum of Baba Wali Qadhari. Legend has it that there was a querrel beween Baba Wali Qandhari and Guru Nanak on the water rights in the area. The querrel reached to a point when Baba Wali threw a rock the size of a buick to crush Guru sahib from the top of that mountain. Guru sahib fielded the rock with his bare hands and stopped it from rolling down. The very point where this rock was stopped a water spring emerged which runs to this day. The imprint of Gurus hand can be seen on the rock to this day.

This picture is in fact a mirror image, meaning what is on right is in reality on the left. It doesn`t show but this is quite a steep mountain, which me and my friend used to climb quite often. It is no ordinary climb; it is a three hour back breaking climbing. Me and my friends usually used to climb the mountain during the sikh pilgrimage time with water bottles and cups and used to offer water to the huffed and puffed sikhs climibing up or down the mountain; but the actual reason was to socialize with sikhs and their families especially the sikhnis. It was my parents who always told me that the sikhnis were some of the prettiest girls ever. But I am sorry to say, and I do not want to offend anyone, most of the sikhnis I met on the mountain were malnutritioned and bloodless; which I found quite shocking - the myth created in my mind by my parents was tarnished.

#27 pindi girls today are mere brats compared to the heavenly things of the 1960`s!!

Re: # 27

Sometimes I really miss my daur-e-jahiliyat :)

#25 - Indeed. I have spent hours thinking over the reasons for why Pindi girls are the most beautiful in Pakistan. I came to this conclusion that Pindi is the melting pot of punjabis, kashmiris and pathans. And hence the phenomena of seeing heart-stoppingly beautiful girls coming out of those old and shabby houses in the interior of Pindi.

Regardless of the reason, on many of my visits to Pakistan I find myself roaming Moti bazaar where girls come with their mothers for shopping.

Urstruly#21:

Ah, those oranges! Yes, I had a bagful of them on my way from Taxila to Sirkup and Jaulian (a corruption, no doubt of Ja-walian because of a large number of walis in that area, Punja Saheb is supposed to be a place where Guru Nanak encountered one of those walis).

You are unduly harsh on those poor people trying to sustain an ancient art and craft of making statues and idols. Yes, they should be trained, but to improve the quality of their products, not to extinguish their virsa.

BTW, I was offered fantastic deals on ``genuine`` excavated idols.

Re: # 23

Excellent observation, I can attest to that. As a matter of fact, the whole Potohar region is bestowed with beauty and God`s grace. As a matter of fact as you travel southwest towards Mianwali, passing through Fateh Jang or Talagung etc. every other guy looks more handsome than Tom Sallek and Burt Reynold; I bet women would be prettier than that of Rawalpindi but that is the area where one can only see one eye of the women through chador.

I agree with everything Drlokraj said and also compliment the writer, although it mostly seems to be from a tourism site. I was born in a village near khewra and ketas and, so, have a special place in my heart for these areas.


nazarhayatkhan:

When I visited the Mohenjodaro musesum, a thought came to me that maybe, the Indus Valley Civilization did not vanish but merely morphed/evolved into another phase. The gods may have been precursor of some of the vedic gods, like Shiva and the artifiacts are quite recgnizable as the precursors of those that were used in Punjab until recent times.


zeemax:
uba and lokraj are right. As long as Kashmir is in India, all five rivers of Punjab originate there; in fact so does Sindh in Ladakh. Sutlun, Beas and Ravi, of course, flow through East Punjab as well.

#1 - I sugget the title for Rawalpindi should be be replaced to ``Rawalpindi - Along whose narrow streets live the most beautiful girls in Pakistan`` :)

yeah, i wrote the above sentence with a smile on my face...

If one knows the area and could recognize the landmarks, The Google Earth has some of the most breathtaking views of the Taxila area with incredible clarity.

I think under the headline of Taxila the writer has erroneously mentioned the name Sirsukh City, whereas the correct name is SirKupp named after a Raja who had the title ``Sirkupp`` meaning the headhunter. (headhunter=the guy who cuts off heads and not the guy who gets you a job).

A trip to Taxila espaecially in winter is great because of vast expanse of orange groves surrounding the area. Surprisingly even in winter the flora and fauna is incredible with blooming flowers, scent of fruit from orange groves, slightly mixed with a certain smell from horse droppings from the tongas that still run in the area.

However, as one gets closer to the highway, one sight especially turns my stomach, and that is the sight of sculptorers carving fake buddhist and sometimes hindu statues along the roadside. Accosrding to Pakistan`s most famous archeologist and internationaly recognized anthropogist Dr. Dani (forgot his first name) , these sculptorers are remanants of the Greek army that came along with Alexander. It might be true, since many have curley blonde hair and blue or green eyes. I wish these people are taught some better vocational skills so that they could abandon this vile practice of creating statues.

West Panjab name should be changed to Islamistan or something now that it is more or less pure, and Lahore should be renamed too. Its spropriate to align names with the reality.

by using pin-chuky attached with a network of pipeline land of balochistan can be fertile.but it needs good paper work first.

drlokraj: Instead of cursing the darkness, far better to light a candle.

Given your love and knowledge for important parts of panjabi culture, why not write an article on a specific topic. I agree that this article is too sketchy - but it is still a zillion times better than the article that never got written. So, lets see some action here....light a candle for bulleh shah. or for Puran Bhagat (I dont even know who this is).

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Re: # 3
In Persian also, ``panj`` means five and ``aab`` means water. Sanskrit and Persian belong to the Indo-Aryan group of langauges. Hence the similarity.

no comments on any ones personel capability and calibre.



I think, then the ensuing further discussion within that topic that carries a lot of weight.

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This topic has alreay being touched a number of times., on the chowk itself


http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00004056&channel=gulberg&start=0&end=9&chapter=1&page=1


A tale of five reivers by Nazar Hayat Khan , being among the bests.

and another related article

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00002813&channel=gulberg&start=0&end=9&chapter=1&page=1


Punjabi Heros that history forgot

again by Nazar Hyat khan being another.

#11 by uba

Which of the 5 rivers flow (or flowed before the treaty) through East Punjab?

Zeemax,

Indus Waters Treaty has neatly divided the rivers of Punjab, with 3 rivers being alloted to Indian Punjab. Also all the 5 rivers , flow thru india as well.

In that case, change the title of the article to ``West Punjab``-the land thru which 5 indian rivers flow.

#6 by drlokraj

drlokraj, (and others who have protested)

This article is about ``The Land of Five Rivers``, which is Western Punjab, which is in Pakistan.

Sorry.

the article is a bit sketchy....


probably a copy paste JOB , from a tourism boruchere that too of Pakistan.

and appears more like a half hearted attempt.

the author conveniently left out indian punjab.

rgds,

devkant.

#2
scout

you seem to have some deep,unresolved issues with someone from Punjab which always makes you see `aab` as `aib`. Is this a cognitive distortion or a perceptual distortion?

To come across anything written on Punjab is an emotional matter for me (and many more I believe) henece, no matter what, I will compliment the writer, but would like to comment on certain aspects:

- This article tells us only about West Punjab or Punjab on the Pakistan side, hence the title misleads. Punjab is also spread on the other side of the border - East Punjab or Indian Punjab which was further divided in 1966 to carve out Haryana and Himachal Pradesh out of it.

- The information is very very sketchy as if taken directly from some tourism book

- Budha did not attain enlightenment at Texila.

- I know it is not easy to do justice to history in such a small and sketchy aricle, but even then when you are touching some parts of history you are ignoring the most important facts like the place being first to confront most invasions into the subcontinent, the rise of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and Sikh Raj, the fact that Punjab was the last part of Indian subcontinent to be annexed to British India and then the parttion of 1947.

- Lahore has history which goes well before Ghaznavi and there is life beyond Islamic invasion and mughal reign. In fact, till 1947, Lahore was a hindu dominated city.

- Lahore was the most important cultural hub of pre 1947 India and also the most important centre of freedom struggle.

- nothing has been said about folk heros of Punjab likePuran Bhagat, Dulla Bhatti..... and the `lovers` mentioned here are `legendary` because of the people who wrote their tales ( Waris, Peelu and Hashim)

Dear Alam

You have missed two important pieces of information.

When the Indus Valley Civilization vanished, it was replced by the Vedic civilization. The beginning of the vedas - and of Dharma - now called Hinduism.

Taxila or Taksheela is the place of origin of Mahayana Buddism which spread to China, Bhutan, Burma, Thailand etc. Mahayana Buddhism is a liberal version of the original Thervada Buddism followed in Sri Lanka.

Katas Raj is far more significant than what you have mentioned. It is linked to the Kauravas and Pandavas story of Mahabharta etc etc. Some one can throw more light on this subject.

So Punjab has origins of three great religions:

Hinduism, Mahayana Buddhism and Sikhism.

The Punjab Tourist Development Corporation needs to study a bit more of ancient history.

nhk

Interesting write up. Kalar Kahar was probably formed less than 15 million years ago (not 600 million!!) as remnant of the ancient ocean you refer to - the Black Sea, Caspian Sea and Aral Sea being other, much bigger remnants of that ocean. 600 million years ago was what is referred to as the pre-Cambrian era when even that ancient ocean (the Tethys Ocean) had not yet even formed - what existed where Pakistan is now was also water, but forming what is known as the Panthassalic Ocean.

So, Kalar Kahar is the descendant of a distinguished family of oceans. A khandani lake. :-)

Re: # 2

The author here is right. The word comes from old Sanskrit where Pancha= five and Apa means water. Hence Five waters or Rivers.
kam

i always thought punjab means punj (five) ab (khamiyan)

I sugget that the title for Rawalpindi should be be replaced from ``Rawalpindi _Base camp to Adventure`` to ``Rawalpindi - The Base Camp for Coup d`etats``. Or if you really want to make some people happy change the title to ``Rawalpindi - A land of No Pharmacies``