Kismet and Muqaddar

According to myself ur both tales were a bit far from the topic........But anyways Topic was interesting & keep it up........Thanx

Hallo - very interestingly put! How about `Muqaddar ka Kismet`? Next time maybe...

-zensufi-

First of all I also want to raise same point of Mr. Khurram (double ``r``) that how choices can be considered free if all the occurrences are considered predetermined...???

Secondly ... I see this topic whole differently from your perspective. For me term ``Qismet`` refers to what is believed to be the ``predictable`` future. It has more to do with such superstitions as belief in the linkage of human life events with such things as `palm line patterns` and/ or movement and circulation of heavenly bodies like stars and planets in the sky. In this context, this Qismet or the belief in Qismet is a form of superstition because here we establish an illogical/ invalid cause-effect relationship. This superstition is one of the ideological remains of mainly ancient civilization of Masopotemia.

Muqaddar on the other hand, in my assessment, is not any superstition but in fact it is a pure meta physical or religious belief. Unlike Qismet, in Muqaddar we do not believe that future events can be predicted on the basis of such things as palm line patterns, or movements of stars/ planets in the sky or any like thing etc. What we believe as `Muqaddar` is just that all what has happened, all what is happening and all what shall happen is pre-decided or pre-determined.

As Qismet depends on let`s say palm line patterns or on movement of calestrial bodies, so in this way, a believer in Qismet would also have the belief that coming life events can be controlled or changed if any change in palm line patterns or position of stars on sky etc. is changed. In this way, future events are quite flexible in Qismet because they can be changed. There is another related practice which is commonly known as ``fall geeri``. People use to take ``fall`` before taking decisions on certain matters. Since they believe that certain undesirable future happenings can be avoided by properly acting in accordence with what is directed by ``fall``, so it means that people, in this case, ``successfully`` ensure that the course of future events may happen in particular desired way. In ``fall geeri``, at first people get the surity of success and then undertake to perform task. This fall geeri also relates with Qismet and not with Muqaddar.

Qismet, as believed, depends on certain ``cause-effect`` relations. We believe that events have happened so and so because palm line patterns are such and such, or that position of stars in sky is such and such. We ``predict`` that let`s say, new year shall be good or bad for this or that class of people because position of stars in sky is such and such. In Muqaddar, on the other hand, there is no ``cause-effect`` relation at all. Events have happened in this particular way just because they had to occur only in this particular way. We do not know, in Muqaddar, that shall new year be good or bad for this or that class of people? But we do know that whatever shall happen in new year, shall happen in a predetermined way. We do predict some general phenomenon in Muqaddar also. But in Muqaddar, the basis of our predictions are our religious beliefs and not any such thing as palm line patterns etc. What general phenomenon we predict in Muqaddar is like day of judgment shall come, or that our own religion shall be dominent on the day of judgment etc. etc. In Muqaddar, we do not predict about routine life events of individual humans. In this way, generally, Qismet is considered predictable whereas Muqaddar is not considered predictable. Qismet can be changed but Muqaddar cannot be changed. Qismet is a form of superstition whereas Muqaddar is a form of meta physical or religious belief.

Here I have not negated your perspective. Actually this type of subjective issues can be analyzed from various angles and perspectives. Secondly, the purpose to analyze subjective issues like this one may not be to reach at one particular truth. The better purpose can be to explore the nature and type of issue in question from as many perspectives as we can. We cannot reach at truth on this type of issues. But we can try to determine the nature, type and extent of the issue by analyzing it from various perspectives.

Thanks And regards!

Re: # 12

First of all, it is Zahra and not Zehra.

Secondly, I did not find any logical explanation in your write-up about luck, fate and destiny. It seemed like you were trying to prove certain concepts based on your beliefs/perceptions than the widespread notion. It will be an overkill to plug-in ``logic`` in this subject which is already full of too many concepts :) These concepts should be narrated in a very clear and simple manner.

[According to my perception, the importance of prayer is more `human nature` than that of religious phenomenon. Because it`s human nature that whenever he finds himself in a situation where no human help can be anticipated, he calls his creator. ]

Quite contrary to your perception, prayer is a spiritual or religious(for some) phenomenon led by the belief that God is at a much higher level than human beings.

Last but not least, prayer is a divine experience in itself. Let`s leave it at that.

Thanks.

Re #11 ``Yes God knows, but he lets his men to selects the way of their own choice``

I think you didn`t get my point. If all is known beforehand then choice is an illusion.

@SR

@Wasif

@Sattar


Thanks, for your say on the article.



Regards,

Re: # 8


@Zehra

Sorry, I forgot to add a disclaimer to the article that, ``The writer is a novice learner and doen`t aim to prove any theory, but to explore some abstract concepts.

Anyways thanks for your say. Well, i`ll be grateful to you if you please present some logical explanation of your say ``I do not believe that kismet is luck. I believe that ``kismet`` is fate and ``muqaddar`` or ``taqdeer`` is destiny. ``

Further i totally agree with your concept of ``Importance of prayer in all religions``. According to my perception, the importance of prayer is more `human nature` than that of religious phenomenon. Because it`s human nature that whenever he finds himself in a situation where no human help can be anticipated, he calls his creator.



Regards,

Re: # 6

@Khurram,



Yes God knows, but he lets his men to selects the way of their own choice. He checks how efficiently his men use the gift of wisdom. And in favour of my say, i`ll quote translation of few Quranic Verses.

Surah Furqan, 77, ``And Momins are those who even don`t accept Allah`s order without pondering on it.``

Further in Surah Anfal, 22 it`s quoted, ``And those are the worst creatures before Him who, don`t think and ponder.``



Regards,

Re: # 3


@Khuram

Thnx for your say. And yes, take time to have a detailed analysis of the article. I`ll appreciate if you discuss the other dimensions of the two terms.



Regards,

Re: # 1



Well, I myself am not able to have some proper definition of ‘Naseeb’. According to my capacity I can just relate and compare the term with the other two described above. I defined “kismet’ as a combination of ‘hard work’ and ‘opportunity’ and ‘Muqaddar’ as a series of such events covering the entire life of man. I think the term ‘naseeb’ has some close relations with the phenomenon mentioned above. As per my perception, ‘Kismet’ (taking it as a unit) is a term whereby ‘opportunity’ and ‘hard work’ both are dependent on physical efforts of the doer, some times these two variables are in abundant supply while in other times, these factors need to be physically attained, (here approaching to the opportunity can be included in this part). We can’t title the result of an event with ‘kismet’ if any of the two essential components of ‘kismet’ is missing. Where as ‘naseeb’ is something similar to ‘kismet’, as it also bases on ‘opportunity’ and ‘hard work’, but it differs from kismet where by one associates any un expected result with the will of creator, working hard on an opportunity, but in case if opportunity is away, not trying to approach it.


And regarding namaz and dua, i agree with Khuram.



Regards,

The subject is indeed interesting, but somehow there are too many stories embedded in this piece. It`s a difficult read. No offense meant to the writer, but there is someone on Chowk who is a great narrator and does a good job in keeping the readers` interest intact. I think we are spoiled :) I believe the writer is mixing some concepts here.

I do not believe that kismet is luck. I believe that ``kismet`` is fate and ``muqaddar`` or ``taqdeer`` is destiny. So far what I have heard from my elders and through my own readings, one can change the course of one`s life whether fate or destiny by putting in the ``right efforts in the right direction`` and asking the supreme power ``God`` to bless those efforts. Here, I agree with the writer.

The power of prayer is indeed very potent and effective. It`s just that we need to look at the signs that are revealed to us in different forms in response to our prayers. Sometimes, we are able to connect the dots. On other occasions, being human comes in our way and we are not able to connect the dots and comprehend the answer to our prayers. What to do in that case? I guess offer another prayer to grant us the wisdom and insight :)

In all religions, the concept of prayer has special significance. I am reminded of the following that I came across during a recent read. It`s touching and sweet.

``Ask and it shall be given to you
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock and it shall be opened unto you;

For everyone that asketh, receiveth;
And he that seeketh findeth;
And to him, that knocketh it shall be opened.``
Matthew 7:7-8

Re: # 5

What`s your point? Please illuminate.

``Point is to be noted here that only activities are scheduled by the creator, not the way of performing them, as Allah SWT has blessed humans with ‘wisdom’ and allowed them to select the way of their own choice to perform those predetermined activities``

But doesn`t an Omniscient God already know how we will perform these activities? Where is our choice if all is already known?

Ohhhhh what an important debate !!! I am overwhelmed.

Life can be likened to game of bridge. One knows only limited information but has to make decisions regarding the unknown, based on interpretation of clues.

The cards we are dealt at the beginning are like Muqaddar... we can`t change them. Free will, on the other hand, or Qismat as you have implied, is determined by how we bid and then play those cards.

...SR

Well... Miss. Qurratulain... your article is wonderful attempt to look into the depths of issues. We generally take many concepts as one and same ... but genius people like you can detect the differences between those and can try to determine the exact nature and meaning of each different concept in question.

I want to comment on your article in somewhat detail but may not do it just now, as Qismat main office jane ka time hai... perhaps.

Best wishes for your intellectual growth.



@ akberm

Yes dictionary meanings of Namaz and dua may be same ... but generally we refer to ``dua`` as ``individuals requests from God in isolation``. Whereas Namaz or more generally ``Ibadat`` is the combination of dua and uniform patterns of actions as are prescribed in the code of religion``. Dua, in this way, can be considered as pure personal relation with God. ``Ibadat`` is more a social phenomenon as it results in bringing uniformity of thinking and actions among people of society. It is Ibadat which ensures the continuity and perpetuity of a uniform religion in the society ... may be for all times to come.


@ sattar2

The saying of Hazrat Ali (RA) which you have quoted ... by chance I also have discussed the same saying on this link:
http://khuram.wordpress.com/2006/08/19/human-will-free-or-not/

Thanks and regards!

... a few thoughts come to mind ...

One is an anecdote related to Hazrat Ali (ra) that I read long time ago: A person asked him about how much control one has over his own destiny. Hazrat Ali asked him to lift one foot off the ground. The man complied. Then Hazrat Ali asked him to lift the other foot as well. The man expressed his inability to do so. Hazrat Ali responded that this is an example of what you do and do not have contorl over.

Other thoguht is a proverb I recall reading: Chance favors the prepared.

I wanted to share some thoughts here. The actual meaning of the word `Salaat` refered to in Quran is `Dua`, which means to Call Out. Namaz is a persian word of DUA ... When you say your DUA which is Salaat or in persian language Namaz you are calling Allah ... performing salaat. Therefore Salaat, DUA and Namaz are all same :)

Now, yes I agree with you that Kismet and muqaddar are the themes of endless debate. Now what is Naseeb :)?