Know Pakistan

Re: # 8 by urstruly,

Urstruly Sahib,

If you look at the statistics of certain HDI categories like net school enrolment etc., Pakistan has been doing quite well (2002-2005) (see Federal Bureau of Statistics). In some cases the development has been phenomenal, given the time period. If you believe the statistics (which I have no reason to disbelieve), you have to agree that the dictatorship has brought about some good.

Regards.

Author (or anyone):

I have two questions:

(1) Is consumption computed from household expenditure in the Pakistani census?

(2) What is the exact recall period?

Regards.

#11 by Urstruly

#10 was mine posted on the BPO board ... It sometimes happens when two interactors post at the same time ... oh well ... chowk`s bugs ...

#10 is not mine.

I wrote to zeemax for his #9 that I understand the technicality of the point you are trying to make but I belive that by improving the data gathering techniques we can overcome the issue. My point is that a conserted effort o made by powers that be - both foreign and local - not to improve on those techniques because it does not serve their political interests.

#208 by jang

a scarcity of qualified human resources.

That`s exactly my point. You don`t add domestic skills in servicing knowledge based economies. You do it by `becoming` a knowledge based economy. And you can`t do it by service sector. It has to be manufacturing for moving up in the value-addition chain.

#8 by Urstruly

Urstruly, criticism accepted as fully valid. I have always held that human development index is the best gauge of any country`s development, and certainly not the caloric intake which is as you rightly say, is dehumanising.

But some sort of a reliable measure is needed for the sake of planning. The calorie intake is the most measurable and verifiable through the cross checking with the data available to compute the vital sensitive price index. The Human Development Index is full of bugs and flaws and is only done through surveys with a huge margin of error, and not empirical data.

So, though I agree with your point, we can only make do with the best available data on poverty for want of a better one.

Zeemax

Why definition of poverty is so controversial? Why can`t Pakistan have its own definition of poverty; screw IMF or WB. I find the definition of poverty as `number of calories per day per person` as degrading, inhuman, and cruel. Human beings are not farm animals. They need education, health, sanitaion, clean water, shelter, clothing, roads, infrastructure and savings for rainy days. If a government is failing on all these accounts then the people of that country are not living below poverty line; they are living below the line that separates humanity from animals. Everytime the issue of poverty is raised in this country the fauji a-holes slap us back with figures from IMF, ``oh look IMF doesn`t consider us poor``. Yes those gucking blood sucker soodkhors do not consider us poor because we are still making our payments on the debt our thug rulers incurred in our name, through unjust taxation. Zeemax, it is time that we start thinking on our own and reject anything that these a-holes feed us as a gospel from IMF. Can`t, for once in our life, we think on our own, what is good for us or at least what is good; do we even know that anymore??

Re:harimau#2

[...[......eight tenths have no sanitation.]

Since Pakistan doesn`t have an extensive railroad network like India does, clearly Pakistanis don`t squat on the railroad tracks like Indians do, as Pakis are wont to point out on Chowk.

So where exactly do Pak citizens answer the call of Nature?]

Harry, this article is a slap on the face of all Pakistanis who have been making fun of India`s poor people, while ignoring the shitty conditions of their own people (pun intended). The reason is that the Pakistanis who interact on chowk belong to the elite class of Pakistan. People like Mantolives, Hamidm or HP belong to that priviliged class that controls everything in Pakistan, lives a life of luxury, loots the country dry and does not leave even the crumbs for the poor people. Their distorted and delusional sense of reality gets manifested by their boasts about how affluent Pakistanis are, when their only data points are people belonging to their own class.

I have two Pakistanis working for me in my company. Both are ordinary middle class guys from Karachi. They are both very smart and extremely hard working. They tell me that virtually every Pakistani would give an arm and a leg to leave Pakistan. Its a cruel society controlled entirely by a bunch of elites. Ordinary people have no chance to progress in life. The only way to get good jobs or promotions are via contacts and sifarish. When the middle class or the poor try to get uppity, the elites wave the Koran and shove Islamic slogans down their throats. Ironically, the one institution where there is some chance to show any merit in Pakistan is the army.

#5 by oak

I gave the answer to your question re Why the reduction in my #4 i.e. because of the liquidity boom of 2002 onwards, asset price escalation, and about 20% of cumulative GDP growth.

It has nothing to do with the general`s policies. It has everything to do with 9/11 and reverse capital flight plus fiscal space due to 30 years rescheduling of foreign debt.

In fact, if the above windfall had not been mostly wasted on consumption led growth, and the liquidity soaked up and spent on mega projects, Pakistan would have been at par with the likes of Malaysia by now. I had written an FP article about that.

Re: # 1

Author, Zeemax

Four tenths of the population live below the poverty line Author quoting from 1998 census

The current poverty figure is around 24%. Zeemax

Why the reduction. Is it due to the resetting of the criteria for poverty or due to the `enlightened` governance of the jurnaal sahib?

...contd...

I`m sure you will find this of interest. This is from the Household Integrated Economic by Quintiles Survey of 2001-2002 by the Federal Bureau of Statistics.

It is presented graphically as follows. The highest bar is Rs. 11,116/- per month household income and you can extrapolate the others likwise. Both the urban as well as rural incomes are given by province.


The picture is not as bad as you paint it, my friend. Pakistan is not a desperately poor country by far. The Pakistan average rural household income by quintiles was Rs. 6,031/- p.m. in 2001-2002 which translates into $ 3.35 per day, while the same for urban areas is $ 5.50. It must also be noted that these figures will be significantly higher now because of the liquidity boom of 2002 onwards, asset price escalation, and about 20% of cumulative GDP growth.

Check this out:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4237353244338529080&sourceid=searchfeed

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Author,

Are these figures from the 1998 census?

Two thirds of the country live on less than $2 a day. Unemployment is 3.6%. Four tenths of the population live below the poverty line.

If they are, then these are vastly outdated. The current poverty figure is around 24%. Also, the poverty measure now used is the minimum required calory intake rather than $ 1 or 2 a day which has also been outdated. IFI`s like World Bank and IMF etc accept the 24% figure to be correct.