Know Pakistan

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#44 by majumdar

Majumdar Saheb, it is the Arab, Chinese and Malysian excess capital coming in which earlier used to go to Europe and the US.

Zeemax sahib,

(No. Sorry. I can`t elaborate. It would be much beyond your comprehension.)

I am sorry if u think so. But I wish u could have elaborated but if u dont think its worth ur time it is OK. btw, what is M-e-K?

Regards

#42 by majumdar

No. Sorry. I can`t elaborate. It would be much beyond your comprehension.

Zeemax sahib,

(The changing regional shifts which have been a disaster for everyon else, have on quite the opposite been a boon to Pakistan. )

What have been these shifts, how have they been a disaster for which countries and how has it been a benefit for Pakistan. Can you elaborate?

(Pakistan`s full name includes Mamlukat-e-Khudad. )

Whaht does M-e-K mean? And has Pakistan lived upto whatever that is supposed to mean.

Regards

India ka Agent hai sala....

#38 by okhla99

By 2020, Pakistan would have emerged as an economic power commensurate with its potential.

Inshallah! I have no doubt it will. But actually even in the next few years it will be well on its way up. The changing regional shifts which have been a disaster for everyon else, have on quite the opposite been a boon to Pakistan.

Pakistan`s full name includes Mamlukat-e-Khudad. Never forget that.

Re: # 37

Dubai port did not get contract which is good it had vested interest in failure of big G. It is awarded to Port of Singapore and they are going to pay $500 million dollars. With Desalination plants coming main constraint of water will be history. Modern tech makes oasis in deserts and big G is high tech miracles.

<< What does all this tell us? That in order to fight our demons, we must first know them. >>

We should also know our strengths. Geographic Location, skilled & unskilled workforce, an economy that is taxiing on the runway, waiting to take off. The big G is one of the factors in the equation but is by no means the all in all.

By 2020, Pakistan would have emerged as an economic power commensurate with its potential.

#36 i guess you are talking about the guadwar port. outsource it to dubai world ports...lots of indians.

Re: # 34
Big G is going to change everything over long term. With tax holiday for 40 years and concessions its going to Rival Dubai and is going to be largest oil and processing unit, huge chemical and rdfinery complexes and nerve center of oil Industry like what was london city say 150 years ago. Everything takes time, but thing has started moving slowly but even supersonic jet moves slowly initially.

Re: # 34
Big G is going to change everything over long term. With tax holiday for 40 years and concessions its going to Rival Dubai and is going to be largest oil and processing unit, huge chemical and rdfinery complexes and nerve center of oil Industry like what was london city say 150 years ago. Everything takes time, but thing has started moving slowly but even supersonic jet moves slowly initially.

#33 yar jeemax, i love your optimism, its just irritating when you get so coy. cummon, spill the beans, what is the secret sauce..spell it out without cryptic one-liners.

...contd#31...

.....Tehseen, lest you misunderstand, by Munafiqs I mean the author and some others who have scant technical knowledge and rely upon sensationlism or headlines in cheap rags and flaunt those as fact. Not you.

Rgds.

...contd#31...

.....Tehseen, lest you misunderstand, by Munafiqs I mean the author and some others who have scant technical knowledge and rely upon sensationlism or headlines in cheap rags and flaunt those as fact. Not you.

Rgds.

#30 by Tehsinabbasi

That is exactly what I`m saying, albeit much to the disappointment perhaps of some munafiqs who never wish their own country well.

#29 by zeemax

So are you saying that Pakistan has smartened up and ready to leap frog?

#27 by bbabu

Malaysia is several notches above Pakistan.

True as of now, but it wasn`t just 20 years ago. Neither was S. Korea, nor China 30 years ago which was closed to the outside world till the Nixon visit in 1972 (which Pakistan had facilitated). So Pakistan went seriously wrong and lost direction, which it is adopting again.

All these countries leap-frogged in a couple of decades or less. One thing good about globalisation is that now it is possible to leap-frog, instead of a slow-sustained indigenous development. You just need to be smart. That`s all.

#23 by harimau

I wasn`t referring to you. As you had explained once, you`re an equal opportunity abuser :)

Re: # 6

I do not mean to put Pakistan down. But I want to point out that Malaysia is several notches above Pakistan.

Chowk Staff,
Please delete my message #24 below. It is not related to the topic and I posted it here by mistake.
Thanks,

Sorry,
Wrong thread. My apologies

Manto Payee, I am very disappointed in your lack of judgment

Manto Bhai,
I have always admired your sense of logic, your vision for Pakistan, and even your aspirations for high office. I have supported you against Injuns, against Moolas, and even against those who would deny you membership in Muslimhood.

While I have disagreed with your views concerning the misfortune that is called partition of 1947, I am even more disappointed by your hasty and illogical altercation with Ms. Nadia. I consider her bravery, courage, and determination to take on a whole gang of goons to be the model of Pakistani feminininininity. Moreover, being a Shia of the Asna Ashuri persuasion, she is twice the Shia that you are. This of course is due to your becoming a Smiley, who while Shias, only believe in half of the saintly leaders we call Eye Maams.

When your own community of Sunnis, or ``losers`` as coined by the rag what covereth and protecteth, ejected your esteemed father and persecuted you because of your former faith, it was the Shia Smileys who gave you a home.
What did you do in return?
You joined a gang of hooligans in picking on a single Pakistani Shia female as she struggled to ward off the evil witches who were ganging up and hurling all kinds of abuse and venom at her.
If I were in your place, I would have protected and defended the solitary victim - but then from the results of various threads, it is obvious that she whipped some ass and I am sorry to note that one of them was yours.

I hope that you apologize to Nadia for your faux pas.
Thanks,
Salim Chauhan

Ref zeemax #20

[Oak, you still have not understood the motivations of some Indian posters. Do not take them seriously. Except for a few who can be counted on fingertips, all others watch Pakistan closely for anything negative they come across on the internet, and flaunt that as some kind of victory.]

Actually, that seems to be the specialty of Ayesha Sarwari whose iLog consists of nothing but news items from India.

On the other hand, my iLog is clean. I have NOT posted anything about a 16-year-old girl being raped and paraded naked through the village some 50 miles outside Karachi for her brother`s sin of marrying some girl against the wishes of her parents. Thus is honor avenged in the Land of the Pure.

Ref oak #19

[Indian allusions to Pakistan`s sanitation in a derogatory manner shows a distinct lack of class.]

You wouldn`t be sh!tting me now, would you?

Search Chowk interacts for ``railroad tracks`` and see how many Pakis have posted about Indians defecating on railroad tracks.

When I come back with the same thing, suddenly your arse is burning. Too much mirchi, I suppose.

[It also has distinct overtones of seeing the people of Pakistan as an undercaste.]

Hey, no matter what your mommas and papas have been telling you about being direct descendants of Prophet Mohammad Himself or of Genghiz Khan, the fact remains that you are all low-caste converts to Islam, the Religion of Peace.

zeemax....if u are objective, then pigs just flew.

rgds,

devkant.

#19 by oak

Oak, you still have not understood the motivations of some Indian posters. Do not take them seriously. Except for a few who can be counted on fingertips, all others watch Pakistan closely for anything negative they come across on the internet, and flaunt that as some kind of victory. More often than not, the contentions they make are factually incorrect.

I don`t know why is that. There is rivalry, sure, but I think Pakistanis have grown out of it except the Kashmir issue. Not the Indians who just do not accept Pakistan as an entity and try to put it down all the time over trivial matters. As for the post you mentioned, the poster knows well enough the conditions in which a large majority of Indians live ... even in their supposedly booming towns such as Bombay, Calcutta etc where millions sleep and defecate on the streets and wash clothing in sewers, and mothers gouge out their children`s eyes to make them beg. Even now. If they were ever to visit Pakistan, they would know the difference as all Indians who come here do, and leave with glazed eyes.

My advice is to ignore all Indians on Chowk who are not interested in any objective discourse, but merely Pakistan bashing on one ptretext or the other.

Re: # 7

Ranjit

Indian allusions to Pakistan`s sanitation in a derogatory manner shows a distinct lack of class. It also has distinct overtones of seeing the people of Pakistan as an undercaste. It is perhaps ironic that the ones who complain most vociferously about Pakistan are the ones who would never have given its people any breathing space in the first place.

Zeemax I`ll have to get back to you re: 9 at some point later.

majumdar

Professionally conducted surveys do not work like that anymore. A marigin of +(-) 5% is the maximum accepted. The questionnaires contain self verifying questions, and are designed to cross-check the responses. The surveyors are well-trained and not amateurs.

I think these are now pretty reflective, as against those of 15-20 years ago.

Urstruly,

Re: #14

That reminds me of my B-school days when we had to do Marketing Reserach projects. We would first finalise the conclusions we wanted to reach and then fill up the questionaires with spurious data that would help us reach the desired results.

Regards

13 by GT

Is consumption computed from household expenditure in the Pakistani census?

It is not computed through census, but through periodic Household Income & Expenditure Surveys (HIES) by the Federal Bureau of Statistics.

The complete 2001-02 detailed reports are here. A summary is here.

These surveys are held every couple of years or so. Though you can find latest data on wage growth and employment in the Economic Survey of Pakistan which is published yearly.

Re: # 14

I do not belive statistics, especially the Government statistics. When I was a university student, the relative of a calss fellow, who worked for Gallop approcahed us and asked us if we would like to make some money on the side. They were conducting a survey for a pharmaceutical company which sold cosmetics in Pakistan; probably Lever Brothers, I don`t remember now. We were given questionaires and we were required to go from neighborhood to neighborhood, knock at people`s doors and ask them the questions. First we tried honestly and tried to question some people but we quickly figured out that people were thinking that either we were scoping their household for a robbery or we were after their girls. So one night we sat down in our dorm and filled out close to 5000 questionaires by ourselves. The deadline was two weeks later; after which we handed over the questionaires. So there Gallop with 97% margin of error,

Re: # 8 by urstruly,

Urstruly Sahib,

If you look at the statistics of certain HDI categories like net school enrolment etc., Pakistan has been doing quite well (2002-2005) (see Federal Bureau of Statistics). In some cases the development has been phenomenal, given the time period. If you believe the statistics (which I have no reason to disbelieve), you have to agree that the dictatorship has brought about some good.

Regards.

Author (or anyone):

I have two questions:

(1) Is consumption computed from household expenditure in the Pakistani census?

(2) What is the exact recall period?

Regards.

#11 by Urstruly

#10 was mine posted on the BPO board ... It sometimes happens when two interactors post at the same time ... oh well ... chowk`s bugs ...

#10 is not mine.

I wrote to zeemax for his #9 that I understand the technicality of the point you are trying to make but I belive that by improving the data gathering techniques we can overcome the issue. My point is that a conserted effort o made by powers that be - both foreign and local - not to improve on those techniques because it does not serve their political interests.

#208 by jang

a scarcity of qualified human resources.

That`s exactly my point. You don`t add domestic skills in servicing knowledge based economies. You do it by `becoming` a knowledge based economy. And you can`t do it by service sector. It has to be manufacturing for moving up in the value-addition chain.

#8 by Urstruly

Urstruly, criticism accepted as fully valid. I have always held that human development index is the best gauge of any country`s development, and certainly not the caloric intake which is as you rightly say, is dehumanising.

But some sort of a reliable measure is needed for the sake of planning. The calorie intake is the most measurable and verifiable through the cross checking with the data available to compute the vital sensitive price index. The Human Development Index is full of bugs and flaws and is only done through surveys with a huge margin of error, and not empirical data.

So, though I agree with your point, we can only make do with the best available data on poverty for want of a better one.

Zeemax

Why definition of poverty is so controversial? Why can`t Pakistan have its own definition of poverty; screw IMF or WB. I find the definition of poverty as `number of calories per day per person` as degrading, inhuman, and cruel. Human beings are not farm animals. They need education, health, sanitaion, clean water, shelter, clothing, roads, infrastructure and savings for rainy days. If a government is failing on all these accounts then the people of that country are not living below poverty line; they are living below the line that separates humanity from animals. Everytime the issue of poverty is raised in this country the fauji a-holes slap us back with figures from IMF, ``oh look IMF doesn`t consider us poor``. Yes those gucking blood sucker soodkhors do not consider us poor because we are still making our payments on the debt our thug rulers incurred in our name, through unjust taxation. Zeemax, it is time that we start thinking on our own and reject anything that these a-holes feed us as a gospel from IMF. Can`t, for once in our life, we think on our own, what is good for us or at least what is good; do we even know that anymore??

Re:harimau#2

[...[......eight tenths have no sanitation.]

Since Pakistan doesn`t have an extensive railroad network like India does, clearly Pakistanis don`t squat on the railroad tracks like Indians do, as Pakis are wont to point out on Chowk.

So where exactly do Pak citizens answer the call of Nature?]

Harry, this article is a slap on the face of all Pakistanis who have been making fun of India`s poor people, while ignoring the shitty conditions of their own people (pun intended). The reason is that the Pakistanis who interact on chowk belong to the elite class of Pakistan. People like Mantolives, Hamidm or HP belong to that priviliged class that controls everything in Pakistan, lives a life of luxury, loots the country dry and does not leave even the crumbs for the poor people. Their distorted and delusional sense of reality gets manifested by their boasts about how affluent Pakistanis are, when their only data points are people belonging to their own class.

I have two Pakistanis working for me in my company. Both are ordinary middle class guys from Karachi. They are both very smart and extremely hard working. They tell me that virtually every Pakistani would give an arm and a leg to leave Pakistan. Its a cruel society controlled entirely by a bunch of elites. Ordinary people have no chance to progress in life. The only way to get good jobs or promotions are via contacts and sifarish. When the middle class or the poor try to get uppity, the elites wave the Koran and shove Islamic slogans down their throats. Ironically, the one institution where there is some chance to show any merit in Pakistan is the army.

#5 by oak

I gave the answer to your question re Why the reduction in my #4 i.e. because of the liquidity boom of 2002 onwards, asset price escalation, and about 20% of cumulative GDP growth.

It has nothing to do with the general`s policies. It has everything to do with 9/11 and reverse capital flight plus fiscal space due to 30 years rescheduling of foreign debt.

In fact, if the above windfall had not been mostly wasted on consumption led growth, and the liquidity soaked up and spent on mega projects, Pakistan would have been at par with the likes of Malaysia by now. I had written an FP article about that.

Re: # 1

Author, Zeemax

Four tenths of the population live below the poverty line Author quoting from 1998 census

The current poverty figure is around 24%. Zeemax

Why the reduction. Is it due to the resetting of the criteria for poverty or due to the `enlightened` governance of the jurnaal sahib?

...contd...

I`m sure you will find this of interest. This is from the Household Integrated Economic by Quintiles Survey of 2001-2002 by the Federal Bureau of Statistics.

It is presented graphically as follows. The highest bar is Rs. 11,116/- per month household income and you can extrapolate the others likwise. Both the urban as well as rural incomes are given by province.


The picture is not as bad as you paint it, my friend. Pakistan is not a desperately poor country by far. The Pakistan average rural household income by quintiles was Rs. 6,031/- p.m. in 2001-2002 which translates into $ 3.35 per day, while the same for urban areas is $ 5.50. It must also be noted that these figures will be significantly higher now because of the liquidity boom of 2002 onwards, asset price escalation, and about 20% of cumulative GDP growth.

Check this out:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4237353244338529080&sourceid=searchfeed

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Author,

Are these figures from the 1998 census?

Two thirds of the country live on less than $2 a day. Unemployment is 3.6%. Four tenths of the population live below the poverty line.

If they are, then these are vastly outdated. The current poverty figure is around 24%. Also, the poverty measure now used is the minimum required calory intake rather than $ 1 or 2 a day which has also been outdated. IFI`s like World Bank and IMF etc accept the 24% figure to be correct.