Muharram 10: ’Ashura: Commemorating Imam Hussain- The Prince of Martyrs

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Re: # 68

The problem with arguing with idiots is that they drag you down to their level and beat you up at their turf. There is absolutely no need to bad mouth Mirza sahib or any other personality revered by any other religion, or the person arguing or cussing you, even if they do. It is explicitly forbidden by our Master (pbuh). It is counter productive and sets us astray from our mission, which is to convey the Message to as many people as we can.

Naqshbandi

Following is the transliteration of the part of Salat usually referred to as attahayato lillahe...

``All greetings, blessings and good acts are from You, my Lord.
Greetings to you, O Prophet, and the mercy and blessings of Allah.
Peace be unto us, and unto the righteous servants of Allah.
I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah.
And I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger.

As it is evident from the text, the words O prophet is a figure of speech or an informal refernce; what it is not is an invokation.

As far as Hazrat Abu Bakr`s uttering the phrase ``Ya Mohammad`` during the battle of Yamama is concerned, we need more refernce to clarify the point. The tradition does not elaborate on the circumstances. It could very well be a figure of speech as explained above. But since it contradicts Qura`n and it is not suppoted by any other hadith, the conclusion that it grants us permission to invoke ghair Allah is preposterous. If we do cost benefit analysis of such invokations it is easy to see that they give an impression of shirk and there is more chance for it rather than the opposite as we see it in case of ordinary people who mindlessly invoke ghair Allah.

Re: # 67
Yes and i am also infatuated with Mirza Ghulam Ahmed qadiyani as well. No wait, its all you ma Qadiyani dawg!

... not my thing, but apparently it turns you on ...

Re: # 65

Moving to farangiland is one thing, but licking their bung-hole is quite another.

... you still seem upset about losing khilafaat ...
It`s time to move on, buddy ...

+++

Look, Urstruly, Naqsh, myself ... we all have moved to farangi land. What`s does that tell you ... ?

Re: # 63
And aren`t u suppose to be licking the boots of ur british masters? Oh wait you ARE doing that, Ma BAD!

re #62:

... aren`t you supposed to be blowing people up somewhere ...
Apparently it`s the new kind of jihad …

Bad Muslim.
No banana.

Re: # 61

O saattariyyaaa, ...abbayy qadiyanii kii nasal tujh koo dunya ka orr koii kaam nahii hayy?? Jabb takk jottayy naa preinn baaz nahii aatayy tumm logg. Orr jabb partayy heinn to rein reinn kartayy hoo.

#60 ... thanks for sharing...
Now get a life, you moron ...

for those who don`t know: assalamu alayka AYYUHA NABIYU wa rahmatullahi wa barakatahu.... means Peace be upon YOU, O` PROPHET and the mercy of Allah and his blessings...

you cannot `scan` these references and thus dismiss them. u haven`t even answered my point that IF saying Ya Muhammad was shirk why did Hazrat Abu Bakr say it in Yamamah after the Prophet had honoured the Next World with his Presence? (alayhisalatuwasalam)? Why did Imam Zayn al Abidin alayhisalam (real name Ali bin Hussain ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib alayhimus-salam), the son of Imam Hussain and the 4th Imam, say the following:

Ya Rahmatulil alameen
Adrikni Zayn al Abidin!

In namaz why do you read al-tahiyyatu lillahi wa salawatu wa tayyibaat. assalamu alayka AYYUHA NABIYU wa rahmatullahi wa barakatahu....

In Arabic saying Ayyuha Nabiyu = Ya Nabi. ?

Urstruly (#57),

… I totally agree … you simply can’t trust these Ahle-Sunnah Ala Hazrat Imam Malik Wallahu Barelvi Sufian-e-karam W`ahle-ba`it traditional Hanafi bastards …

… march on mard-e-momin … we`re all pulling for you …

Naqshbandi

Do you even bother to check the references before you post them? The Quranic refernces to support the POV that it is OK to invoke dead people for help are absolutely irrelevant.

The first refernces is from the Chapter 28 : The Stories (Al-Qasas) that describes the story of Moses when he was a young man:


The Stories 28:15

And he (Moses) entered the city at a time when its people were not watching: and he (Moses) found there two men fighting,- one of his own religion, and the other, of his foes. Now the man of his own religion appealed to him against his foe, and Moses struck him with his fist and made an end of him. He said: ``This is a work of Evil (Satan): for he is an enemy that manifestly misleads!``

So here a living person is calling for help to another living person. I fail to see how it could be extrapolated to include invoking dead people for help.


The second reference is from Chapter 18: The Cave (Al-Kahaf), which describes the story of the king and prophet named Dhul-Qarnain (pbuh), who visited upon a nation in a far away land and following is the dialogue that happened between those people and Dhul-Qarnain

The Cave : 18:94

They (the people of that far away land) said: ``O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?

18:95

He (Dhul-Qarnain) said: ``(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:


It is quite obvious from the text that Dhul-Qarnain is directly asking those people to help him build a protective wall. He is not invoking any dead people to help him errect the wall.


I have also scanned through the text of many hadith in the refernce but couldn`t find anything that supports your point of view.

#53,

Nothing much ... just enjoying the pissing contest ...

So tell us once again what you think of Maudoodi ... (there is this word you used ... which sounds very much like Maudoodi ... only ``u`` was replaced with ``r`` ...

... and Urstruly is still upset with you, you know ...)