Muharram 10: ’Ashura: Commemorating Imam Hussain- The Prince of Martyrs

kaal

I am sorry to read about your sister, may Allah grant her eternal peace and tranquility.

#143 by kaalchakra

(Having just lost my younger sister - I loved her very much - )

Kaal. I am sorry. May the Dear Departed Soul Rest in Eternal Peace.

#142 by Urstruly

Again, Urstruly is right. Learning from experience, one gets to the knowledge that there are many things beyond a person`s will and reach no matter what, and indeed a person is quite helpless at times till he calls upon Allah. And then, miracles begin to occur.

There have been many such instances in my life. Whenever I have called upon Allah to help when I was in dire straits, I have always come out ahead through doors opening from all directions clearly showing me which to take, when it would have been a matter of seconds for me to miss them altogether and back to misery.

So, I have Faith. That is enough. Intellect counts for nothing. Allah does. Too many questions lead to kufr. I really believe that.

Zee

can`t claim to comprehend the Great Buddha`s mind, and some Buddhist would know better, but it may be related to the basic Indian idea that God/Ultimate Reality can be ``known`` ONLY through negation....the moment you begin to ``describe`` God, you have fully lost Him/It.

So the Indian sages would traditionally describe the absolute, the transcendental, infinite reality as neti, neti (not this, not this).

May be the Buddha was telling us that the question of existence or nonexistence cannot be settled by us humans in an absolute sense, since absolute knowledge is simply beyond human ken. (Having just lost my younger sister - I loved her very much - I think I have a sense of what he meant, although I do not ``understand`` it).

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Urstruly

I know...there is a reason why this whole nautanki of Sufism is beneath contempt.

Re: # 143kalchakraa

i am realy sorry to know about your sister.

may her soul rest in peace.

Re: # 143

Sufism is not nautanki; it is true and valid as long as it remains with in the well defined limits.

Zeemax & Kaal

Even if we give the benefit of doubt to Hallaj and assume that he was only being too philosophical (being on opium or bhang, being too full of himself, or simply having mind altering delusions could be some other possible explanations) it is no brainer that he violated another one of the oath that a Muslim makes with Allah. The oath is in the Chapter Al-Kafiroon (Atheists; Disbelievers). Here is the translation of the Chapter/oath:


AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

Say: O unbelievers!

I do not serve that which you serve,

Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:

Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,

Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.


This oath stipulates in no uncertain terms, our relationship with God and this relationship is only and only that of a servant or a worshipper; no matter what we do we cannot become Him or part of Him. Mansur Hallaj claimed to be the Absolute Truth, which violates the first oath that we discussed in the post below, because only Absolute is the Allah Himself.

Look at the title of this Chapter i.e. Atheists or Disbelivers. Almost every Ateists whom you will ask will claim that he belives in nothing, but in fact that is his belief. Hence Qura`n puts forth such a forcefull and irrefutable argument to atheists that only a stubborn one would claim that he can`t see the point. Elsewhere in Qura`n Allah challenges atheists that this Cosmos is the proof of His existence, what is the proof that you have. Such challenge can only come from the Devine. The text of the chapter makes it clear how disbelivers worship their own stubborness and hold it as a god itself.

Kaal,

I`m still pondering over this:

The Fourfold Negation:
The Buddha denied that we exist, denied that we do not exist, denied that we both exist and do not exist, and denied that we neither exist nor do not exist.

Do you know what it`s about?

#138 by kaalchakra

No. Iqbal was not a poet at all. Iqbal was a Mussalman ... no other Mussalman like him.

#136 by kaalchakra

(Finger waving icon)

Zee, Iqbal was a poet.

... add on #135 ... (forgot to write).

Still, Iqbal`s ``Khudi ko kar bulund itna key har taqdeer sey pehley; Khuda bandey sey khud poochey bata teri raza kya hai?`` makes one wonder what the hell did he mean by that?

Just to show how far poor Hussain Mansour bin Al-Hallaj had strayed from Islam consider the basic mahavakyas (Great Aphorisms) of Hinduism - which is complete polytheism and full shirk:

Aphorism 1: The Ultimate Knowledge/Truth/Consciousness is God.
Aphorism 2: I am God.
Aphorism 3: You are That.
Aphorism 4: This Atman is God.

#133 by kaalchakra

Kaal,

He actually represented a full return to non-Islam.

I`m not too sure about that. Perhaps he didn`t. Perhaps he did. I don`t know.

I once mentioned on these boards that my Father is an Islamic scholar (He used to be an agnostic whilst living in Quebec in the 50s but that`s another story). I never believed him nor listened to him but when he turned 70 (Mashallah he is still kicking ass at 83), he thought he was going to die soon. So he wrote a letter (no phonecall ... but a letter) to all of us sons and a daughter living abroad as well as our young cousins etc. In those six pages he explained what it was all about. What I felt striking and somewhat repelling was that he did not state anything as expression of any opinions of his, but a statement of the absolute reality. I confronted him over this and invoked Al-Hallaj. Here he stopped me firmly with a lot of sadness in his eyes. He said that where Al-Hallaj had reached, don`t even tread towards that path. Because one step further, is `Kufr`.

I took him on his word. I don`t go towards that direction anymore. I didn`t ask him to elaborate further though I wanted to, but I saw clearly he was badly shaken.

Kaalchakra, this is a very complex matter. The further you peel off the layers, the further you get into an abyss. I would rather take the blind faith in Allah & conduct as prescribed by Him. It is sufficient for me.

When Kerry Packer was dead for 8 minutes, and people asked him about it, he had said `` I was on the other side, and there was nothing there``.

Again my profuse apologies should I have treaded on any sensitive issues.

Re #103 Kulharee,

Relevant issues … although not expected to get straight answers from ullema and faithful members of the ummah here ...

Dear Prophet (pbuh) and early Muslims too faced similar persecution as they followed message of Islam. The system then had become too corrupt to be reformed from within, and was eventually dismantled with patience, effort, sacrifices, and more. Same is the case now.

This explains the manner in which ullema have united against Ahmadi-Muslims. Ullema have thrown Quran behind their backs and continue to violate Islamic teachings in most basic manner. This underscores how teachings of Islam have suffered at the hands of its own followers … very much the way teachings of Judaism had suffered at the hands of its own ullema during the times of Christ (pbuh). And hence the ahadith about reappearance of Christ …

In context of reappearance of Christ, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophesized that ullema of his followers in the latter days would be Allah’s vilest creations. Your post supports fulfillment of the Prophet’s words … even as they continue to humor Zahra …

Zee, it was great that you wrote #132. I typed in the following a little while ago but didn`t post it, not wanting to appear to be putting words in your mouth. But please do feel free to provide corrections where necessary. Regards.

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Ustruly

That was a great post. ``The only god is allah whose prophet is Mohammad`` indeeds seems to be the uniquely Islamic understanding of tauheed.

Without putting words in his mouth, Zee, IMHO, is unlikely to have any basic disagreement with that Islamic claim. Nor would he interpret tauheed to mean the actual freedom (in any real Islamic society) to assert that one is Allah. As such Hussain Mansour bin Al-Hallaj represented much more than just a heresy. He actually represented a full return to non-Islam.