Muharram 10: ’Ashura: Commemorating Imam Hussain- The Prince of Martyrs

#143 by kaalchakra

(Having just lost my younger sister - I loved her very much - )

Kaal. I am sorry. May the Dear Departed Soul Rest in Eternal Peace.

Re: # 143

Sufism is not nautanki; it is true and valid as long as it remains with in the well defined limits.

kaal

I am sorry to read about your sister, may Allah grant her eternal peace and tranquility.

Thanks, Zee. It`s been a few weeks. I can`t even believe it, let alone understand it. But we move on... Sooner or later, all of us run up against the hard edge of reason, and that is where different kinds of ``faiths`` are born....

#148 by kaalchakra

Kaal, as we Muslims say ``From Allah we come, and to Him we shall return``.

That gives us solace for loss of loved ones.

We should be thankful for whatever time they spent with us, and wish them well in the hereafter.

Urstruly

Sorry, didn`t mean to offend any sufi who is fully committed to Islam.

Non-Muslims have a very screwed up idea of Sufism. That is what I meant by nautanki. Otherwise Sufism is one of the most useful tools of Islam and fits in perfectly within Islam`s overall spirit and objectives.

(Thanks for the condolences...It`s been difficult.)

Re: # 143kalchakraa

i am realy sorry to know about your sister.

may her soul rest in peace.

Before I sign off, Kaal, I shall pray for your dear sister. May Allah grant you the serenity and forbearance to face this irreperable loss.

With profound Regards.

Zee, Philosopher

Thanks again. Not to misuse this board for matam, but it hurts so much that I was not even in India when she suddenly fell sick and passed away. You are right. We seek solace in saying: From God, to God; or as I would have recited had I been able to carry her dead body: Only God`s name is true. The rest is all mud.

Anyways, it`s too painful. May I request all friends to not mention it anymore. Thanks a bunch to everyone in advance.

See you later, Zee.

Having messed up the atmosphere here and with work waiting to be done, I will sign off from this board too. Catch you all some other time, later :)

Kaal,

I just recited Surah-e-Fatiha for your Dear Sister. May she rest in peace. Ameen.

What you said:

Sooner or later, all of us run up against the hard edge of reason, and that is where different kinds of ``faiths`` are born....

.... is worth being written in gold.

Bye my friend ... for now.

Kaal:

My condolences.

About Hussain ibn Mansur al Hallaj (rahmatullah alayhi) -- to those who have spoken ill of this great saint of Allah and accused him of being all sorts of things and against Shariat please wash out your mouths and fear Allah! He said about the saints: Verily upon the Friend of Allah (saints) there is no fear and nor do they grieve. Most of the people of Ahl al Sunnah have considered al-Hallaj to be one of the saints of Islam who was punished by Allah for divulging a Secret which was between him and Allah alone.

Those ignoramuses who think he broke Shariah or didn`t respect it dont know that even on the day he was martyred, he prayed 1000 rakahs of namaz the night before.

He is listed in all of the classical biographical catalogues of the saints [awliya] such as the classic Tadhkirat al Awliya by Attar and Data Ali Hijiwiri`s Kashf al Mahjub.

Therefore it is better to be silent on matters way way beyond your (our) knowledge.

A drop of Hussain ibn Mansur`s understanding of Tawhid is more than all of ours combined.

Re: # 156

Naqsh

Plz, lets not make up things which are not even plausible. Divulging a secret between him and Allah? 1000 Rakat of namaz?

Assuming that it takes 1 minute to say one rakaat, which is pretty standard timing, it must take 16 hours straight non stop to finish 1000 rakaats, which seems humanly impossible. And who was taking count of all the rakaats. Did he tell his disciples next morning?

I have read the biographies of various auliyas in Farishta and Attar, which are considered standard among a certain sect and found it to be some alif laila. Almost all auliya in these books can fly, they have telepathic communication powers, they can be at two or more places at once, the infants fast from dusk to dawn, they raise the dead, walk through fires, talk to God, prophets, and other dead people, teleport, and just by looking at them people turn Muslims. Okay I accept that to be true because a miracles is a miracle because we do not understand the mechanism through which it works. But what I really find interesting is the fact that if you read the books written by these very auliya they themselves seem to be absolutely oblivious of their own powers. For example, Kashaf-al-mahjoob written by Ali Hajwairi does not mention any such miracles that are attributed to him. He does mention about Mansur Hallaj in his book but he is very clear that in his opinion Hallaj had an experience of Ma`araft (connection with Allah), which in his opinion is a state of mind, rather than an actual connection. There is a difference. It reminds me of an urdu saying that ``Pir Sahib nahiN urtay, mureed ki aqeedat unko uRatee hay``.

In case of Hallaj, I think from juristic point of view the Qazi of the time acted according to the Shariah law. If it were an Islamic government in India at the time, Mirza Quadiani would have been executed too. Mirza only claimed to be a mere prophet but Mansur claimed to be god himself (nauozubillahe min zalik)

Re: # 157

My fault: Isa alayhisalam said, ``Oh my disciples do not cast pearls before swine``--not that I am accusing you of being the latter. I should not expect a disciple of Mawdoodi to understand the karamat of awliya.

If you want to understand the phenomenon please listen to the following speech. It is in English. It is not by a `Barelwi`. He is from Nineveh in Iraq (aka as Karbala) and an Arab Sunni.

May Allah guide us all. ameen.
http://www.lailahailallah.net/Khutbahs/Khutbah108.wma -- part 1

http://www.lailahailallah.net/Khutbahs/Khutbah109.wma part 2

http://www.lailahailallah.net/Khutbahs/Khutbah110.wma part 3

Urstruly (#157),

Death sentences have been passed against many a prophet of god. If fanatics had their way, Jesus and Muhammad too would have been executed … let alone Mirza Sahib!

More you argue, more you fit the pattern of fanatics outlined in Quran …

Furthermore, the Pharaoh got killed as he chased a prophet and his people. Similar fate was met by Bhutto, Faisal, Zia … pharaohs of our times.

Ummah is now engaged in a futile battle, blowing up innocents and even its own. Your continued obsession with Ahmadi-Muslims underscores ummah’s moral and intellectual decline.

No wonder Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) called your kind “Allah’s vilest creation …”

Kal -- sorry to hear about the tragedy in your family in India. My heartfelt condolences to you and your family for the untimely demise of your favorite sister. She must have been a gentle soul like you are. What a loss. Please come back soon -- it`s an immense pleasure to converse with a rare intellect like you. Best wishes with best regards.