Huntington's Clash of Civilizations Thesis
M Asadi February 2, 2007
#363 Posted by DavidHume on March 23, 2007 6:52:32 am
Edward Said`s lecture is available online at [youtube.com] (search for ``Myth of the Clash of Civilizations``).
The War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells can be found at Project Gutenberg [gutenberg.org].
Huntington`s essay in .pdf can be found at [http://www.allannoble.net/articles_by_samuel_huntington.htm].
The idea of clashing civilizations originated in a debate between Francis Fukuyama and Samuel Huntington in the early 1990s following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Samuel Huntington`s now famous essay ``The Clash of Civilizations?`` (1993) was a response to Francis Fukuyama`s book The End of History and the Last Man (1992).
First, the “clash of civilizations” is not a gimmick, it is a broad conceptual tool used to understand what one sees in the world. Like all theories it is parsimonious and can therefore be criticized. This is how academics make a living. A theory does not have to be right it just has to be helpful and Huntington gave the world a helpful theory. That theory: “It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation-states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future.” [Read a newspaper lately?]
Second, most of Huntington’s critics have never read his essay (later printed as a book).
This makes it easy to misrepresent his position. Said of course read the essay/book and masterfully creates a straw-man and whacks and whacks it. He uses Huntington as a foil for his own personal world-view (which he had held long before Huntington put pen to paper). The fact Bernard Lewis was the source of the phrase “clash of civilizations” I am sure was unforgivable. Said of course wrote Orientalism (1978) which made orientalist a dirty word.
Third, Said was an American. Said was a Christian. Said was a secularist. I wonder if his admirers are aware of these facts. His criticism of Huntington was a criticism of anyone, where-so-ever, who would attempt to classify large segments of people into monolithic blocks. Said was addressing an American audience in the speech linked above. Said was addressing an American audience in his essay “The Clash of Ignorance” [The Nation, October 2001]. Said was a part of the American dialogue. His desire was to transcend the barriers that keep us apart, and create a common humanity. Using Said only as a hatchet man against America is to do a horrible injustice to him. Everything he said/wrote is equally applicable to you and yours.
In conclusion, 1) Huntington gave political scientists a workable theory; what decision-makers do with it is another matter (the theory is descriptive not prescriptive as Said would have us believe). 2) Said used a critique of Huntington as a foil to advance his own world-view (a world-view shared by millions of his fellow Americans). 3) It is completely disingenuous to use Said as a one-sided critic. His message went much deeper. 4) People should actually read the books for themselves and make up their own mind (Said did not write scripture). Sapere aude!!
[in memoriam Edward Wadie Said 1935-2003 a great American]
The War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells can be found at Project Gutenberg [gutenberg.org].
Huntington`s essay in .pdf can be found at [http://www.allannoble.net/articles_by_samuel_huntington.htm].
The idea of clashing civilizations originated in a debate between Francis Fukuyama and Samuel Huntington in the early 1990s following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Samuel Huntington`s now famous essay ``The Clash of Civilizations?`` (1993) was a response to Francis Fukuyama`s book The End of History and the Last Man (1992).
First, the “clash of civilizations” is not a gimmick, it is a broad conceptual tool used to understand what one sees in the world. Like all theories it is parsimonious and can therefore be criticized. This is how academics make a living. A theory does not have to be right it just has to be helpful and Huntington gave the world a helpful theory. That theory: “It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation-states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future.” [Read a newspaper lately?]
Second, most of Huntington’s critics have never read his essay (later printed as a book).
This makes it easy to misrepresent his position. Said of course read the essay/book and masterfully creates a straw-man and whacks and whacks it. He uses Huntington as a foil for his own personal world-view (which he had held long before Huntington put pen to paper). The fact Bernard Lewis was the source of the phrase “clash of civilizations” I am sure was unforgivable. Said of course wrote Orientalism (1978) which made orientalist a dirty word.
Third, Said was an American. Said was a Christian. Said was a secularist. I wonder if his admirers are aware of these facts. His criticism of Huntington was a criticism of anyone, where-so-ever, who would attempt to classify large segments of people into monolithic blocks. Said was addressing an American audience in the speech linked above. Said was addressing an American audience in his essay “The Clash of Ignorance” [The Nation, October 2001]. Said was a part of the American dialogue. His desire was to transcend the barriers that keep us apart, and create a common humanity. Using Said only as a hatchet man against America is to do a horrible injustice to him. Everything he said/wrote is equally applicable to you and yours.
In conclusion, 1) Huntington gave political scientists a workable theory; what decision-makers do with it is another matter (the theory is descriptive not prescriptive as Said would have us believe). 2) Said used a critique of Huntington as a foil to advance his own world-view (a world-view shared by millions of his fellow Americans). 3) It is completely disingenuous to use Said as a one-sided critic. His message went much deeper. 4) People should actually read the books for themselves and make up their own mind (Said did not write scripture). Sapere aude!!
[in memoriam Edward Wadie Said 1935-2003 a great American]
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#362 Posted by masadi on February 11, 2007 9:21:58 pm
Putin says U.S. wants to dominate world
Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:02PM EST
MUNICH, Germany (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, in one of his harshest attacks on the United States in seven years in power, accused Washington on Saturday of attempting to force its will on the world.
The White House said it was ``surprised and disappointed`` by Putin`s accusations but added Washington expected to continue to work with Moscow in areas such as counter-terrorism and reducing the spread and threat of weapons of mass destruction.
In a speech in Germany, which one U.S. senator said smacked of Cold War rhetoric, Putin accused the United States of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it ``one single master``.
Attacking the concept of a ``unipolar`` world in which the United States was the sole superpower, he said: ``What is a unipolar world? No matter how we beautify this term it means one single center of power, one single center of force and one single master.``
``It has nothing in common with democracy because that is the opinion of the majority taking into account the minority opinion,`` he told the gathering of top security and defense officials.
``People are always teaching us democracy but the people who teach us democracy don`t want to learn it themselves.``
The news should have been captioned
Putin rises from deep slumber, or it could find its way into an ad for Folgers Coffee
Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:02PM EST
MUNICH, Germany (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, in one of his harshest attacks on the United States in seven years in power, accused Washington on Saturday of attempting to force its will on the world.
The White House said it was ``surprised and disappointed`` by Putin`s accusations but added Washington expected to continue to work with Moscow in areas such as counter-terrorism and reducing the spread and threat of weapons of mass destruction.
In a speech in Germany, which one U.S. senator said smacked of Cold War rhetoric, Putin accused the United States of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it ``one single master``.
Attacking the concept of a ``unipolar`` world in which the United States was the sole superpower, he said: ``What is a unipolar world? No matter how we beautify this term it means one single center of power, one single center of force and one single master.``
``It has nothing in common with democracy because that is the opinion of the majority taking into account the minority opinion,`` he told the gathering of top security and defense officials.
``People are always teaching us democracy but the people who teach us democracy don`t want to learn it themselves.``
The news should have been captioned
Putin rises from deep slumber, or it could find its way into an ad for Folgers Coffee
#361 Posted by arjun2 on February 11, 2007 4:03:48 pm
After Tata, it`s Birla: Magic of metalAdd to Clippings
MUMBAI: After the Tatas snapped up Corus, this is another great Indian takeover in the wings. The A V Birla Group has bid for the Canadian aluminium giant Novelis Inc for $6 billion (or about Rs 26,400 crore). If this mega transaction goes through, Novelis and A V Birla company, Hindalco, will jointly become the world’s largest aluminium rolling company, one of the biggest producers of primary aluminium in Asia, and India’s leading copper producer.
At a packed press conference here today, Kumar Mangalam Birla, chairman of the A V Birla group, maintained a remarkably straight face as he announced Hindalco’s plan to take over Novelis, based in Atlanta, US. If there was any excitement surrounding the impending deal, Birla did not betray it. ‘‘We are very excited,’’ was all he would offer.
For various reasons, the Hindalco story is an astonishing one. To start with, it demonstrates that Tata Steel’s acquisition of Corus wasn’t a one-off case of Third World chutzpah. Instead, there is serious Indian money chasing equally serious global assets.
Two years ago, for instance, when an Indian company went shopping abroad, it paid, on average $32 million to close a deal. At the end of 2005, for all the 136 purchases made by Indian companies, $4.3 billion were paid. By the first half of 2006, Indian companies started looking at marginally bigger targets and the average deal size went up to $47 million. They ended the year acquiring 145 companies and paid a little over $8 billion. It’s been only 42 days since 2007 begun and three Indian companies have committed close to $19 billion.
MUMBAI: After the Tatas snapped up Corus, this is another great Indian takeover in the wings. The A V Birla Group has bid for the Canadian aluminium giant Novelis Inc for $6 billion (or about Rs 26,400 crore). If this mega transaction goes through, Novelis and A V Birla company, Hindalco, will jointly become the world’s largest aluminium rolling company, one of the biggest producers of primary aluminium in Asia, and India’s leading copper producer.
At a packed press conference here today, Kumar Mangalam Birla, chairman of the A V Birla group, maintained a remarkably straight face as he announced Hindalco’s plan to take over Novelis, based in Atlanta, US. If there was any excitement surrounding the impending deal, Birla did not betray it. ‘‘We are very excited,’’ was all he would offer.
For various reasons, the Hindalco story is an astonishing one. To start with, it demonstrates that Tata Steel’s acquisition of Corus wasn’t a one-off case of Third World chutzpah. Instead, there is serious Indian money chasing equally serious global assets.
Two years ago, for instance, when an Indian company went shopping abroad, it paid, on average $32 million to close a deal. At the end of 2005, for all the 136 purchases made by Indian companies, $4.3 billion were paid. By the first half of 2006, Indian companies started looking at marginally bigger targets and the average deal size went up to $47 million. They ended the year acquiring 145 companies and paid a little over $8 billion. It’s been only 42 days since 2007 begun and three Indian companies have committed close to $19 billion.
#360 Posted by arjun2 on February 10, 2007 5:05:39 pm
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Musharraf 15th in list of ‘worst dictators’
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: President Pervez Musharraf once again finds himself in unwelcome company, having been included by Parade magazine, distributed with every daily newspaper in America on Saturdays, among the “world’s worst dictators”.
The listing is drawn up in part from reports by international human rights organisations and the US State Department. The editors’ own prejudices must also play a part. The numbering and placement of the name is determined by the perceived severity of the dictatorship. The Pakistani leader was No 17 last year but has moved up two places to No 15 this year.
On top of the list stands Omar al-Bashir of Sudan, followed by Kim Jong-Il of North Korea, Sayyid Ali Khamenei of Iran, Hu Jintao of China, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Than Shwe of Burma, Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan, Muammar al-Qaddafi of Libya, Bashar al-Assad of Syria, Teodoro Obiang Nguema of Equatorial Guinea, King Mswati III of Swaziland, Isayas of Afewerki of Eritrea, Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, Choummaly Sayasone of Laos. Meles Zenawi of Ethiopia, Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Paul Biya of Cameroon and Vladimir Putin of Russia.
The longest ruling leader on the list of 20 is Qaddafi, who has been in power since 1969. The oldest of the rulers is King Abudllah who is 83, and the youngest King Mswati III of Swaziland who is 38.
#359 Posted by zeemax on February 10, 2007 12:07:40 am
#350 by SR
.. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point....
You know, one lives and learns. And, I have learnt lately that regardless of how strongly one believes he may be right, he may actually be wrong. I have lately come to realize that the `consumerism` driver and the liquidity boom let loose by this economic team in Pakistan (for whom I have now developed some respect after watching results) was the only `real` workable option under Pakistan`s politico-economic as well as it`s foreign relations stance post 9/11.
Let me elaborate as suggested:
I have been on record as voiceforously criticising Pakistan`s decision not to mop-up the post 9/11 influx of some $ 18 billion by issuance of fresh Government bonds for infrastructure development, and instead to let it remain in the money market. This would have been perfect in any other scenario, but the Debt/GDP ratio at that time was close to 100%, and the Government taking on further debt would have driven the ratio through the roof, plus multiplying the fiscal deficit, both reflecting negatively in Pakistan`s sovereign ratings. Instead, the excess liquidity did the following (much in the same order):
1) Drove commercial borrowing interest rates down from 21% to 2.25%, boosting corporate profits, re-investment and capacity utilization.
2) Stock market boom and foreign portfolio investment resulting from (1).
3) Real Estate market escalation and influx of high-quality foreign builders/developers, cement and allied 200 (+) tertiary industries growth.
4) Consumer finance and auto-manufacturing /household appliances boom resulting in huge capacity additions and entry of manufacturers/assemblers.
5) Banking sector profits tripling due to all of above strengthening their balance sheets and entry of large foreign players/take-overs/mergers.
6) Reduction of direct borrowing from central bank, fiscal deficit, and budget deficit and sufficient fiscal space for increase in Public Sector Development Programmes (PSDP).
7) Reduction in debt/GDP from 100% to 56% and improvement in sovereign ratings.
8) Entry and bench-marking in international sovereign as well as corporate bond/GDR markets with over $ 4 billion hugely oversubscribed issues due to (7).
9) Reduction of cost in foreign borrowing due to reduction of country-risk premiums, and in domestic borrowing through lowering of rates in National Savings Schemes.
10) Overall FDI conducive atmosphere beginning to attract serious long-term foreign flows.
In short, although myself personally have always favoured a domestically/internally driven growth, but Pakistan did the opposite i.e. taking the externally driven path. At the end of the day, I guess whatever works is the best. The above is working very well.
The risks, are (a) the savings/investment to GDP is very low. This must improve with increase in wealth and dis-incentivizing capital flight by residents and; (b) the current account deficit. This was inevitable given the above route. However, in the words of the Resident Director of World Bank based in Islamabad - ``It is fixable``.
Cheers!
(P.S) Best of luck and wishes in your venture with Bulleya. I have no doubt that with your combined talents, success will not be very far from the word `go`.
.. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point....
You know, one lives and learns. And, I have learnt lately that regardless of how strongly one believes he may be right, he may actually be wrong. I have lately come to realize that the `consumerism` driver and the liquidity boom let loose by this economic team in Pakistan (for whom I have now developed some respect after watching results) was the only `real` workable option under Pakistan`s politico-economic as well as it`s foreign relations stance post 9/11.
Let me elaborate as suggested:
I have been on record as voiceforously criticising Pakistan`s decision not to mop-up the post 9/11 influx of some $ 18 billion by issuance of fresh Government bonds for infrastructure development, and instead to let it remain in the money market. This would have been perfect in any other scenario, but the Debt/GDP ratio at that time was close to 100%, and the Government taking on further debt would have driven the ratio through the roof, plus multiplying the fiscal deficit, both reflecting negatively in Pakistan`s sovereign ratings. Instead, the excess liquidity did the following (much in the same order):
1) Drove commercial borrowing interest rates down from 21% to 2.25%, boosting corporate profits, re-investment and capacity utilization.
2) Stock market boom and foreign portfolio investment resulting from (1).
3) Real Estate market escalation and influx of high-quality foreign builders/developers, cement and allied 200 (+) tertiary industries growth.
4) Consumer finance and auto-manufacturing /household appliances boom resulting in huge capacity additions and entry of manufacturers/assemblers.
5) Banking sector profits tripling due to all of above strengthening their balance sheets and entry of large foreign players/take-overs/mergers.
6) Reduction of direct borrowing from central bank, fiscal deficit, and budget deficit and sufficient fiscal space for increase in Public Sector Development Programmes (PSDP).
7) Reduction in debt/GDP from 100% to 56% and improvement in sovereign ratings.
8) Entry and bench-marking in international sovereign as well as corporate bond/GDR markets with over $ 4 billion hugely oversubscribed issues due to (7).
9) Reduction of cost in foreign borrowing due to reduction of country-risk premiums, and in domestic borrowing through lowering of rates in National Savings Schemes.
10) Overall FDI conducive atmosphere beginning to attract serious long-term foreign flows.
In short, although myself personally have always favoured a domestically/internally driven growth, but Pakistan did the opposite i.e. taking the externally driven path. At the end of the day, I guess whatever works is the best. The above is working very well.
The risks, are (a) the savings/investment to GDP is very low. This must improve with increase in wealth and dis-incentivizing capital flight by residents and; (b) the current account deficit. This was inevitable given the above route. However, in the words of the Resident Director of World Bank based in Islamabad - ``It is fixable``.
Cheers!
(P.S) Best of luck and wishes in your venture with Bulleya. I have no doubt that with your combined talents, success will not be very far from the word `go`.
#358 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2007 10:54:17 pm
#357 by hamidm2
...last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees...
Next time try getting your stock of premium scotch from across the border for Rs. 1500/litre in Lahore. These horrible hindoos are not completely good-for-nothing I guess ...
...last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees...
Next time try getting your stock of premium scotch from across the border for Rs. 1500/litre in Lahore. These horrible hindoos are not completely good-for-nothing I guess ...
#357 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2007 6:01:26 pm
Re: # 345
SR,
..... i refer you to ayaz amir`s column in today`s dawn .........
..........i go to islamabad at least once a year and you are right in that booze is freely available in islamabad, but it is still a clandestine affair and you still have to make `arrangements` whether they are at a restaurant or through your special bootlegger or the indian high commisssion (the horrible hindoos know how to make a rupee!)......... ayaz mentions that there are six `good` bootleggers in isloo, but he is a very `connected` person - i know of only three .......
p.s. last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees - which, i think, is unislamic profiteering ........
SR,
..... i refer you to ayaz amir`s column in today`s dawn .........
..........i go to islamabad at least once a year and you are right in that booze is freely available in islamabad, but it is still a clandestine affair and you still have to make `arrangements` whether they are at a restaurant or through your special bootlegger or the indian high commisssion (the horrible hindoos know how to make a rupee!)......... ayaz mentions that there are six `good` bootleggers in isloo, but he is a very `connected` person - i know of only three .......
p.s. last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees - which, i think, is unislamic profiteering ........
#356 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 3:45:06 pm
#353 by bulleya on February 9, 2007 2:56pm PT
neither of you has any conviction in actions........
Jeez Louise..is this the same capt clueless who, in the heady days after 9/11, was telling us that he wanted to quit his job and join the American invasion of afghanistan(because the Americans needed handholding he told us)..
you only went to canuckistan because if you didn`t ICE was going to deport your rear back to pakiland...t-shirt with paki flag and all....
heck...urstruly is at least honest about being a sleeper cell...
neither of you has any conviction in actions........
Jeez Louise..is this the same capt clueless who, in the heady days after 9/11, was telling us that he wanted to quit his job and join the American invasion of afghanistan(because the Americans needed handholding he told us)..
you only went to canuckistan because if you didn`t ICE was going to deport your rear back to pakiland...t-shirt with paki flag and all....
heck...urstruly is at least honest about being a sleeper cell...
#355 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 3:30:07 pm
Re: # 351 bulleya {``...any talented person i can get my hands on is welcomed to consider this......give me about two months and then i will contact you...}
If you contact me soon, I could put you in touch with others of similar conviction and intent.
...SR
If you contact me soon, I could put you in touch with others of similar conviction and intent.
...SR
#354 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 3:02:25 pm
#350 by SR on February 9, 2007 1:39pm PT
Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
Gee..it looks like pakis, allah`s chosen people(allah`s jews if you will), are going to miss that boat too..
Oh the irony..
India`s Infosys in talks with banks for its Islamic banking IT solutions
New Delhi, Feb 5, IRNA ,
Targeting the Islamic Banking community, which needs customized Information Technology (IT) solutions, India`s Infosys Technologies is aggressively looking at tapping the burgeoning segment having already bagged a beta customer -- Arab National Bank.
Infosys Finacle Vice President and Business Head Merwin Fernandes said here on Monday, ``We already have got the first customer Arab National Bank and are developing full-fledged banking solutions for them, (that is) expected to be operational by the end of this year,`` reported Press Trust of India.
He said the company is in talks with several Tier-I and II banks in the Middle East and South East Asia region and is hoping to bag few more orders soon.
Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
Gee..it looks like pakis, allah`s chosen people(allah`s jews if you will), are going to miss that boat too..
Oh the irony..
India`s Infosys in talks with banks for its Islamic banking IT solutions
New Delhi, Feb 5, IRNA ,
Targeting the Islamic Banking community, which needs customized Information Technology (IT) solutions, India`s Infosys Technologies is aggressively looking at tapping the burgeoning segment having already bagged a beta customer -- Arab National Bank.
Infosys Finacle Vice President and Business Head Merwin Fernandes said here on Monday, ``We already have got the first customer Arab National Bank and are developing full-fledged banking solutions for them, (that is) expected to be operational by the end of this year,`` reported Press Trust of India.
He said the company is in talks with several Tier-I and II banks in the Middle East and South East Asia region and is hoping to bag few more orders soon.
#353 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2007 2:56:59 pm
hamidm2 mian #344: ``........ urstruly lives in america and HATES everything about it and it is quite possible he is actively working to undermine it by robbing parking meters and spitting on the sidewalk .......... i, on the other hand, live in the us and love it``
....you and urstruly are more alike than you realize........i have been saying this for a long time.....perhaps you thought i was joking.......however, i was serious......by the way, there is nothing wrong with being similar to urstruly (or being similar to you)........
......urstruly and you have centered your views around profit and loss....neither of you has any conviction in actions........urstruly hates the usa, but when he realized his profit was based there, he made a deal with the devil and disregarded his beliefs.......he, thus, lives in the usa, while simultaneously criticizing it as the mother of all evils......
.......you hate religion and the religious right, but when you realized your profit was based there, you made a deal with the devil and jumped on the evangelical bandwagon of george bush and disregarded your beliefs......you, thus, support the religious right of the usa, while simultaneously criticizing religion as the mother of all evils.......
......both urstruly and you, go on and on (and on and on) about problems in pakistan and call for violent actions against those problems......you think there are too many maulvis in pakistan, he thinks there aren`t enough......both of you keep criticizing some part of pakistan, some institution, some group, some individual for destroying the place.....both of you keep highlighting how far behind pakistan is falling.........but......
but...i can bet a million dollars neither of you will ever go there and do anything yourselves.....both of you want someone else to fix the place, so you can return there and retire in comfort........
.......both of you are dead sure (200% sure) that your ideas are correct and everyone else is a fool.........come hell or highwater, neither of you will ever see anything even remotely wrong with your respective belief systems........to the point, that it is literally impossible to ever get either of you to change your opinion on anything.......
after thousands of replies and exchanges on this site that both of you must have particiapated in, with hundreds of interactors, i highly doubt there has been a single change in your respective views and beliefs, from the day you joined......they are identical to what they were when you started interacting here, on day one.......
.....so in a nutshell, both of you are far too sure of yourselves, far too convinced of your ideas, ridicule others far too much, and are far too quick to look at profits over convictions and principles.......
p.s. don`t take the above personally.......i like beating up on you once a year, when i feel you are starting to get too big for your britches......
....you and urstruly are more alike than you realize........i have been saying this for a long time.....perhaps you thought i was joking.......however, i was serious......by the way, there is nothing wrong with being similar to urstruly (or being similar to you)........
......urstruly and you have centered your views around profit and loss....neither of you has any conviction in actions........urstruly hates the usa, but when he realized his profit was based there, he made a deal with the devil and disregarded his beliefs.......he, thus, lives in the usa, while simultaneously criticizing it as the mother of all evils......
.......you hate religion and the religious right, but when you realized your profit was based there, you made a deal with the devil and jumped on the evangelical bandwagon of george bush and disregarded your beliefs......you, thus, support the religious right of the usa, while simultaneously criticizing religion as the mother of all evils.......
......both urstruly and you, go on and on (and on and on) about problems in pakistan and call for violent actions against those problems......you think there are too many maulvis in pakistan, he thinks there aren`t enough......both of you keep criticizing some part of pakistan, some institution, some group, some individual for destroying the place.....both of you keep highlighting how far behind pakistan is falling.........but......
but...i can bet a million dollars neither of you will ever go there and do anything yourselves.....both of you want someone else to fix the place, so you can return there and retire in comfort........
.......both of you are dead sure (200% sure) that your ideas are correct and everyone else is a fool.........come hell or highwater, neither of you will ever see anything even remotely wrong with your respective belief systems........to the point, that it is literally impossible to ever get either of you to change your opinion on anything.......
after thousands of replies and exchanges on this site that both of you must have particiapated in, with hundreds of interactors, i highly doubt there has been a single change in your respective views and beliefs, from the day you joined......they are identical to what they were when you started interacting here, on day one.......
.....so in a nutshell, both of you are far too sure of yourselves, far too convinced of your ideas, ridicule others far too much, and are far too quick to look at profits over convictions and principles.......
p.s. don`t take the above personally.......i like beating up on you once a year, when i feel you are starting to get too big for your britches......
#352 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 2:52:55 pm
#349 by Kulharee on February 9, 2007 1:13pm PT
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going.
Absolutely...but these pakistanis are contributing by not doing the whole islamic nutcase thing..bricks over bombs, if you will...
the whole point here is that malaysia is successful despite the islamic influence, not because of it...same thing for india..if it were up to the BJP, they`d be building cow-pee research institutes instead of incentivizing Infosys etc..another fine example: Dubai..with it`s liberal drive-most-pure-paki-muslims-nuts culture..
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going.
Absolutely...but these pakistanis are contributing by not doing the whole islamic nutcase thing..bricks over bombs, if you will...
the whole point here is that malaysia is successful despite the islamic influence, not because of it...same thing for india..if it were up to the BJP, they`d be building cow-pee research institutes instead of incentivizing Infosys etc..another fine example: Dubai..with it`s liberal drive-most-pure-paki-muslims-nuts culture..
#351 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2007 2:33:14 pm
SR#350: ``Well, you don`t seem like you are just bullshitting, so yes, let`s talk.....``
...rest assured i am not bs-ing.....if all goes well, in about 45 days or so, i will be leaving my beloved canada......life should be a journey and not a destination.....so destiny beckons, once again......(sidenote: if all does not go well, then i will still be in canada).........
i have been trying to figure this out, for over two years, and even discussed in over dinner with the one to two poeple on chowk, who have met me.......nothing seemed to be working...however, now i am pretty close......
.....we will basically be doing projects in uae and then as an off-shoot of those, get pakistani projects......i will need to build up team(s) of people on the banking side for pakistan (and uae)......so any talented person i can get my hands on is welcomed to consider this......give me about two months and then i will contact you.....
``This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. ....``
.......you are preaching to the choir.....this is the area i am concentrating on now....we actually have a study group, which meets regularly to discuss this......malaysia is the center of this.......islamic banking is making millionaires out of people who have even just a little bit of knowledge in this field.......there is an ex-shariah court judge of pakistani who now sits on the shariah boards of hsbc and other banks........must be raking it in........
......who says maulvis don`t know how to do business.......
......this is where the next IT boom is going to be in banking software, in my opinion......as all other financial fields are quite well understood and have quite a few software and banking products in place......interestingly, some of the earliest software products in this field are coming from indian companies.......
...rest assured i am not bs-ing.....if all goes well, in about 45 days or so, i will be leaving my beloved canada......life should be a journey and not a destination.....so destiny beckons, once again......(sidenote: if all does not go well, then i will still be in canada).........
i have been trying to figure this out, for over two years, and even discussed in over dinner with the one to two poeple on chowk, who have met me.......nothing seemed to be working...however, now i am pretty close......
.....we will basically be doing projects in uae and then as an off-shoot of those, get pakistani projects......i will need to build up team(s) of people on the banking side for pakistan (and uae)......so any talented person i can get my hands on is welcomed to consider this......give me about two months and then i will contact you.....
``This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. ....``
.......you are preaching to the choir.....this is the area i am concentrating on now....we actually have a study group, which meets regularly to discuss this......malaysia is the center of this.......islamic banking is making millionaires out of people who have even just a little bit of knowledge in this field.......there is an ex-shariah court judge of pakistani who now sits on the shariah boards of hsbc and other banks........must be raking it in........
......who says maulvis don`t know how to do business.......
......this is where the next IT boom is going to be in banking software, in my opinion......as all other financial fields are quite well understood and have quite a few software and banking products in place......interestingly, some of the earliest software products in this field are coming from indian companies.......
#350 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 1:39:16 pm
Re: # 342 bulleya {``.....pakistan has had quite a turnaround in its banking sector......infrastructure, IT of banks etc.......there are foreign companies lining up to buy these banks now.......a lot of projects begging to be delivered, with no skillsets available......i have been in contact with various individuals from india, as that is the only way to do these projects....and am days away from getting something going.......
how are your skills in the risk management, assets and liability management and islamic banking space?....``}
Yes, I agree, tremendous strides have been made, and are still being made, in the finance sector. But that is mostly on the surface. And the multinationals and big banks will mostly benefit from it. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Masadi that most of these developments are not going to enhance the lives of ``ordinary`` Pakistanis... The 80%, that is, who live in single bedroom dwellings. That was the reason I mentioned Public Health and not Finance. There is indeed tons of money to be made in finance. But the ``need`` of the unwashed masses, as hamidm calls them, is Education and Health.
The power of the financial institutions is growing by leaps and bounds everyday. The economy is turning from a cash / barter economy to a financial economy with more and more leverage being built into the system. The monetary base is growing far faster than the real economy and that concerns me for the long run. There is gross misallocation of capital taking place and that is building many structural distortions into the economy. Unfortunately, the army of MBA`s and US trained ``finance wizards`` are taking the country`s economy on the route of consumerism, as opposed to what other success stories in Asia have done. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point.
But coming to your point, yes, there is much work to be done and the time to do it is now. I spoke to several people in finance and learnt that the skillsets are lacking all the way around. For instance, they are about to open a commodities exchange this month yet the regulators do not understand the very basics of derivatives and risk transference. The whole field is not even in its infancy. It`s in its embrionic stage.
Well, you don`t seem like you are just bullshitting, so yes, let`s talk.
This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. Everyone and their mother will be clamoring for these so-called ``Islamic financial products`` by year-end 2009, if not sooner. Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
As for skillsets, you know I`ve always made it quite clear that I am a layman. That`s why I don`t fall in those same traps that Harward MBAs do. Whatever little I may know is purely self-taught through the university of hard knocks. My association with finance and economics is from my personal interest as a trader / speculator of some 20 years standing. Recently, however, I did have a brief synopsis in a John Wiley publications book authored by Dr. Alexander Elder. (click here) It`s no big deal, but I`m not totally annonymous any more.
Send me an email if you like: My last name spelled backwards at google`s mail service.
...SR
how are your skills in the risk management, assets and liability management and islamic banking space?....``}
Yes, I agree, tremendous strides have been made, and are still being made, in the finance sector. But that is mostly on the surface. And the multinationals and big banks will mostly benefit from it. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Masadi that most of these developments are not going to enhance the lives of ``ordinary`` Pakistanis... The 80%, that is, who live in single bedroom dwellings. That was the reason I mentioned Public Health and not Finance. There is indeed tons of money to be made in finance. But the ``need`` of the unwashed masses, as hamidm calls them, is Education and Health.
The power of the financial institutions is growing by leaps and bounds everyday. The economy is turning from a cash / barter economy to a financial economy with more and more leverage being built into the system. The monetary base is growing far faster than the real economy and that concerns me for the long run. There is gross misallocation of capital taking place and that is building many structural distortions into the economy. Unfortunately, the army of MBA`s and US trained ``finance wizards`` are taking the country`s economy on the route of consumerism, as opposed to what other success stories in Asia have done. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point.
But coming to your point, yes, there is much work to be done and the time to do it is now. I spoke to several people in finance and learnt that the skillsets are lacking all the way around. For instance, they are about to open a commodities exchange this month yet the regulators do not understand the very basics of derivatives and risk transference. The whole field is not even in its infancy. It`s in its embrionic stage.
Well, you don`t seem like you are just bullshitting, so yes, let`s talk.
This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. Everyone and their mother will be clamoring for these so-called ``Islamic financial products`` by year-end 2009, if not sooner. Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
As for skillsets, you know I`ve always made it quite clear that I am a layman. That`s why I don`t fall in those same traps that Harward MBAs do. Whatever little I may know is purely self-taught through the university of hard knocks. My association with finance and economics is from my personal interest as a trader / speculator of some 20 years standing. Recently, however, I did have a brief synopsis in a John Wiley publications book authored by Dr. Alexander Elder. (click here) It`s no big deal, but I`m not totally annonymous any more.
Send me an email if you like: My last name spelled backwards at google`s mail service.
...SR
#349 Posted by Kulharee on February 9, 2007 1:13:03 pm
Re: # 348
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going. So please give credit where it is due.
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going. So please give credit where it is due.
#348 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 12:53:44 pm
#347 by zeemax on February 9, 2007 12:44pm PT
peemax...the ummah sure as heck doesn`t get credit for malaysia`s success...heck..malaysia succeeded to the extent it did despite the ummah`s influence...Indian and chinese origin malays contribute a lot to malaysia`s success...that`s soo not par for the course for an islamic country....
peemax...the ummah sure as heck doesn`t get credit for malaysia`s success...heck..malaysia succeeded to the extent it did despite the ummah`s influence...Indian and chinese origin malays contribute a lot to malaysia`s success...that`s soo not par for the course for an islamic country....
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