Huntington's Clash of Civilizations Thesis

I don`t see why hindoos keep yapping about mittal. It is like if Hungarians started yapping about George Soros.

How much investments does mittal have in hindooland or Soros in Hungary?

ahmedmadani writes <<< Actually I feel United states is destroyer of Empires, they have no affilation to anybody >>>

The US has a global empire explicitly of military bases in over 120 nations, not to mention the several hidden ones, has partaken in war after war, not against empires but tiny nations post ww2, and dominates global trade and finance that effectively results in domination of the political economy of the developing nations. IT still shares the spoils with the old empires who are kept at a decent level of development due to its policies post world war2 and the Marshall plan, extracting several times more from the colored developing world than it ever gave Europe.

It has a bloody history built upon the foundations of genocide, and its founding rapists who were slave owners and quite wealthy themselves drew up a system of government that ensured that those that controlled wealth would never be challenged, masked in flowery language about the ``people`` and life libery and pursuit of happiness which the system is designed to deny to the many at the expense of the few, revealed clearly by wealth and income stats in the US, not to mention the people of color and women among them that form the underclass, completely excluded from not only liberty and happiness but life itself as they die at three times the rate of the average.

Re: # 229 Chauhan:

Did I spell it right? Recently I met one Chouhan who wanted to distinguish himself from local Chavan. It was amusing that he was in search of some historical roots to be close to the rising super power. He was saying his last name was Chou-Han like Chou-In-Lie. Seemed a big Lie! I do not know why some of us try to search roots in distant land or ideology. We try to know more about French History ... only about great grand dad if it`s going to give us easy ride to power and glory .... instead if we learn more from the weaknesses of the great grand dad.

>I am all for independence, for self-government, and for righteousness. Unlike you, I do not use selective events from history to justify current actions that may border on fascism.
<

The exhibits might be selective. But if you have some artifacts which might refute the conclusions one uninitiated might draw please send them to the organizers of the exhibition.

>BTW, I am glad you discovered Sivaji`s talents at playing undertaker or was it taxidermy that you had in mind?
<

I not only know how to spell your esteemed last name but also your hifi abracadabra.

``undertaker`` and ``taxidermy`` are pure French to me. Please write simple English. Are you referring to Jizia tax? Was it so heavy that the people who were taxed (Hindus) besides skin (dermy) nothing was left.

This exhibition would teach the uninitiated:

1. For Dharma to prevail be strong and united in all respects ... economy, arms and technology.
2. Alien ideology how well sounding may be it`s still not yours. You can learn from it but you need to develop organically what suits to the local environment and the soil.
3. You should rever heroes such as Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru GovindSinghji who were son of the soil because they fought the Adharma and sacrificed their lives and family.
.
.
.
Many more ... I wont spell them out here. There might be great Islamic civilization in a distant land but what India encountered was pure barbarism. What came to India`s shore was filthy marauding beasts. It seems the shit travels faster than the good of the civilization. Today Coke and M&M reaches faster than open courseware of MIT.

Shivaji was an ideal son, brother, father (may be little negligent), administrator, strategist, leader and a visionary. He was the leader who grew among the people, for the people and because of the people whom he lead.

I do not know which artifact in the exhibition you think is very selective. Again for your ready reference:
This exhibit will show to Indians that the state power needs to be in the hands of people with higher consciousness for Dharma to prevail. When Indians did not care who rules in Delhi, the result is the worst among us got the chance to destroy dharma (Natural Law and Justice) and spread Adharma (Violence, which violates natural justice). The seed of this ``worst`` is the undue attachment to the distant ideology ... it may not be even an idea but mere material book of ``words`` in alien language you do not understand or relate.

If you want to refute some facts, for your ready reference here it goes again

“Aurangzeb, as he was, according to Moghol Records”.
Place: Habitat Centre. Palm Court

Date: 16th to 20th February 2007

Time: 9 Am to 8 Pm

For any information, contact:

François Gautier

41 Jorbagh, New Delhi 110003
Tel: 24649635 / 9811118828
Aurangzeb as he was according to Mughal Records

Aurangzeb, Emperor Shah Jahan’s sixth son, was born on 24th October 1618 at Dohad in Madhya Pradesh, and wrested India’s crown from his father before the end of June 1658, after defeating his brother Prince Dara Shukoh’s armies, first at Dharmat near Ujjain (15th April 1568) and the second, led by Dara himself, at Samugarh on 29th May 1658. The War of Succession to the richest throne in the world was practically over with this victory, and Aurangzeb secured his position by making Murad, his brother and accomplice in his impetuous pursuit for power, his prisoner, by treachery, on 25th June. He had already made his old father Emperor Shah Jahan a prisoner in the Agra Fort (8th June 1658). Shah Jahan survived his confinement by nearly eight years and the disgraceful manner of his burial (Exhibit No.5) will ever remain a stigma on this unscrupulous son Aurangzeb’s advent to the throne in his father’s life time was not welcomed by the people of India, because of the treacherous manner it was achieved; , but public opinion became all the more hostile towards him when Prince Dara Shukoh, the favourite son of Shah Jahan, the translator of the Upanishads (Exhibit No.2), and a truly liberal and enlightened Musalman, was taken prisoner on the Indian border, as he was going to Persia. Dara was paraded in a most undignified manner on the streets of Delhi on 29th August 1659. The French Doctor, Bernier, was an eye-witness to the scene and was deeply moved by the popular sympathy for Dara (Exhibit No.3) which so much alarmed Aurangzeb that he contrived to have a decree from his Clerics announcing death-sentence for his elder brother on the charge of apostasy (Exhibit No.4).

Throughout the War of Succession, Aurangzeb had maintained that he was not interested in acquiring the throne and that his only object was to ward off the threat to Islam, which was inevitable in case Dara Shukoh came to power. Many, including his brother Murad, were deceived by this posture. After his formal accession in Delhi (5th June 1659) he posed as a defender of Islam who would rule according to the directions of the Shariat, and with the advice of the Clerics or Ulama for whom the doctrines, rules, principles and directives, as laid down and interpreted in the 7th and 8th century Arabia, Persia and Iraq, were inviolable and unchangeable in all conditions, in all countries, and for all times to come.

One of the main objectives of Aurangzeb’s policy was to demolish Hindu temples. When he ordered (13th October 1666) removal of the carved railing, which Prince Dara Shukoh had presented to Keshava Rai temple at Mathura, he had observed “In the religion of the Musalmans it is improper even to look at a temple”, and that it was totally unbecoming of a Muslim to act like Dara Shukoh (Exhibit No.6, Akhbarat, 13th October 1666). This was followed by destruction of the famous Kalka temple in Delhi (Exhibit No.6, 7, 8, Akhbarat, 3rd and 12th September 1667).

In 1669, shortly after the death of Mirza Raja Jai Singh of Amber, a general order was issued (9th April 1669) for the demolition of temples and established schools of the Hindus throughout the empire and banning public worship (Exhibit Nos.9 & 10). Soon after this the great temple of Keshava Rai was destroyed (Jan.-Feb. 1670) (Exhibit No.12) and in its place a lofty mosque was erected. The idols, the author of Maasir-i-Alamgiri informs, were carried to Agra and buried under the steps of the mosque built by Begum Sahiba in order to be continually trodden upon, and the name of Mathura was changed to Islamabad. The painting (Exhibit No.13) is thus no fancy imagination of the artist but depicts what actually took place.

This was followed by Aurangzeb’s order to demolish the highly venerated temple of Vishwanath at Banaras (Persian text, Exhibit No.11), Keshava Rai temple (Jan.-Feb. 1670) (Persian Text, exhibit No.12 and Painting, Exhibit No.13), and of Somanatha (Exhibit No.14). To save the idol of Shri Nathji from being desecrated, the Gosain carried it to Rajputana, where Maharana Raj Singh received it formally at Sihad village, assuring the priest that Aurangzeb would have to trample over the bodies of one lakh of his brave Rajputs, before he couldeven touch the idol (Exhibit No.15)

Aurangzeb’s zeal for temple destruction became much more intense during war conditions. The opportunity to earn religious merit by demolishing hundreds of temples soon came to him in 1679 when, after the death of Maharaja Jaswant Singh of Jodhpur in the Kabul Subah, he tried to eliminate the Rathors of Marwar as a political power in Rajputana. But Maharana Raj Singh of Mewar, in line with the great traditions of his House, came out in open support of the Rathors.. This led to war with both Mewar and Marwar during which the temples built on the bank of Rana’s lake were destroyed by his orders (Exhibit No.23, Akhbarat 23rd December 1679) and also about three hundred other temples in the environs of Udaipur. (Exhibit No.25, Text), including the famous Jagannath Rai temple built at a great cost in front of the Maharana’s palace which was bravely defended by a handful of Rajputs (Exhibit Nos.20, 21).

Not only this, when Aurangzeb visited Chittor to have a view of the famous fort, he ordered the demolition of 63 temples there which included some of the finest temples of Kumbha’s time (Exhibit No.22). From Marwar (in Western Rajasthan) alone were brought several cart-loads of idols which, as per Aurangzeb’s orders, were cast in the yard of the Court and under the steps of Jama Masjid (Exhibit No.19). Such uncivilized and arrogant conduct of the Mughal Emperor alienated Hindus for ever, though they continued to be tolerant towards his creed.

In June 1681, orders, in a laconic two-liner, were given for the demolition of the highly venerated Jagannath Temple in Orissa (Exhibit No.24, Akhbarat, 1st June 1681)., Shortly afterwards, in September 1682, the famous Bindu-Madhav temple in Banaras was also demolished as per the Emperor’s orders (Exhibit No.27, Akhbarat, Julus 26, Ramzan 20). On 1st September 1681, while proceeding to the Deccan, where his rebel son Prince Akbar, escorted by Durga Das Rathore, had joined Chhatrapati Shivaji’s son, Shambhaji, thus creating a serious problem for him, Aurangzeb ordered that all the temples on the way should be destroyed. It was a comprehensive order not distinguishing between old and newly built temples (Exhibit No.26, Akhbarat, Julus 25, Ramzan 18). But in the district of Burhanpur, where there were a large number of temples with their doors closed, he preferred to keep them as such, as the Muslims were too few in number in the district. (Exhibit No.28, Akhbarat 13th October 1681). In his religious frenzy, even temples of the loyal and friendly Amber state were not spared, such as the famous temple of Jagdish at Goner near Amber (Exhibit Nos.30, Akhbarat, 28th March and 14th May 1680). In fact, his misguided ardour for temple destruction did not abate almost up to the end of his life, for as late as 1st January 1705 we find him ordering that the temple of Pandharpur be demolished and the butchers of the camp be sent to slaughter cows in the temple precincts (Akhbarat 49-7).

The number of such ruthless acts of Aurangzeb make a long list but here only a few have been mentioned, supported by evidence, mostly contemporary official records of Aurangzeb’s period and by such credible Persian sources as Maasir-i-Alamgiri.

I In obedience to the Quranic injunction, he reimposed Jizyah on the Hindus on 2nd April 1679 (Exhibit No.16), which had been abolished by Emperor Akbar in 1564, causing widespread anger and resentment among the Hindus of the country .A massive peaceful demonstration against this tax in Delhi, was ruthlessly crushed (Exhibit No.17), This hated tax involved heavy economic burden on the vast number of the poor Hindus and caused humiliation to each and every Hindu (Exhibit No.18). In the same vein, were his discriminatory measures against Hindus in the form of exemption of the Muslims from the taxes (Exhibit No.31, Akhbarat 16th April 1667) ban on atishbazi and restriction on Diwali (Exhibit No.32), replacement of Hindu officials by Muslims so that the Emperor’s prayers for the welfare of Muslims and glory of Islam, which were proving ineffective, be answered (Exhibit Nos.33, 34). He also imposed a ban on ziyarat and gathering of the Hindus at religious shrines, such as of Shitla Mata and folk Gods like Pir Pabu (Exhibit No.35, Akhbarat 16th September 1667), another ban on their travelling in Palkis, or riding elephants and Arab-Iraqi horses, as Hindus should not carry themselves with the same dignity as the Muslims! (Exhibit No.36). In the same vein came brazen attempts to convert Hindus by inducement, coercion (Exhibit No.41) or by offering Qanungoship (Exhibit No.44, 45, 46) and to honour the converts in the open Court. His personal directions were that a Hindu male be given Rs.4 and a Hindu female Rs.2 on conversion (Exhibit No.43,Akhbarat 7th April 1685). “Go on giving them”, Aurangzeb had ordered when it was reported to him that the Faujdar of Bithur, Shaikh Abdul Momin, had converted 150 Hindus and had given them naqd (cash) and saropas (dresses of honour) (Exhibit No.40, Akhbarat, 11th April 1667). Such display of Islamic orthodoxy by the State under Aurangzeb gave strength and purpose to the resistance movements such as of the Marathas, the Jats, the Bundelas and the Sikhs (Exhibit No.46). .

On the 12th May 1666, the dignity with which Shivaji carried himself in the Mughal court and defied the Emperor’s authority, won him spontaneous admiration of the masses. Parkaldas, an official of Amber (Jaipur State) wrote in his letter dated 29th May 1666, to his Diwan. “Now that after coming to the Emperor’s presence Shivaji has shown such audacity and returned harsh and strong replies, the public extols him for his bravery all the more …” (Exhibit No.37). When Shivaji passed away on April 1680 at the age of 53 only, he had already carved a sufficiently large kingdom, his Swarajya, both along the western coast and some important areas in the east as well.

Aurangzeb could never pardon himself for his negligence in letting Shivaji escape from his well laid trap and wrote in his Will (Exhibit No.48) that it made him “to labour hard (against the Marathas) to the end of my life (as a result of it)”. He did not realize that it was his own doing: the extremely cruel manner – even for those times - in which he put to death Shivaji’s son, Shambhaji (Exhibit No.38) made the Maratha king a martyr in the eyes of the masses and with that commenced the People’s War in Maharashtra and the Deccan which dug the grave of the Mughal empire.

Till the very end Aurangzeb never understood that the main pillars of the government are the affection and support of the people and not mere compliance of the religious directives originating from a foreign land in the seventh-eighth centuries.

His death after a long and ruinous reign lasting half a century, ended an eventful epoch in the history of India . He left behind a crumbling empire, a corrupt and inefficient administration, a demoralized army, a discredited government facing public bankruptcy and alienated subjects, .

Re: # 254
Mr H2 I read your comment.Now you know that I am not smart but not stupid or mad. Now I have read his book on internet and also some work on internet of Prof Mills and it is good. I have observed his thoughts are powerful because they are true and bitter like strong medicine. Now he has described condition of dark skinned people in usa , they are humilated and denied human rights and used as fodder for white mans war against middle eastern people and only given jobs in military to die so white people do not have to fight war. Now lots of liberals say different things like they like dark people etc but white people reject them. And unfortunately blacks have also problems with violence. I read most desi killed in usa are not killed by indians or pakistanis though differnt race but blacks killed many and they can not understand race difference indian and pakistani race. Also they are not allowed to move in white areas and that is subtle way they just keep high prices of house in white areas. All over world blacks are forced to live in south of city, even in Tehran south have poor misery.Iranians are aryan and proud and they show recism against dark skinned people see in Abadan city. One Iranian who was guest here told me confidentially no Khandan white nice looking Irani with selfworth will marry bloody Kuzestani arabs and Habshis, these are people who were supporters od revolution. As masadi showed and noted 20 percent of wealth of usa is controlled by 0.5 percent and blacks get nothing. Now here it may be I think 60% controlled by 0.5 % but its not problem as its not racist it just the way nature intented. I looked at all distribution standard, poison and , bionimal all its natural look at areas under curve all occipied by band of 5% width. So its natural and logical and matehimatical but in usa is race related that is wrong. Now my brain is not working any way let me continue.
Now white people are good looking and smart etc but pervert and cunning. Now they cheat blacks all time. They are sentimental people and white people take advantage of their simple attitude. Mr. Clinton considerd himself black and blacks said he is brother but never screwed black women but he always showed preference for his white race is fact.It means whites are screwing black all time and they still consider Clinton and Mrs Clinton honorary black.
I have heard all races are exploiting them. Little chinese and koreans and vietnamise have started drug shops in black areas and they spread liquior and make money on backs of blacks . Their daddy`s and mothers teaching racism from childhood or oriental and desi`s also. Also desi do not marry blacks even for exception. Look at Rajiv, Rahul, Imran khan etc they will marry whit girls who did not do BSc or BA like that but will marry uneducated white women as they know that elites of desi are recist and they show to all slave desi they are superior. And unfortunately they do not love them but just use them as investment as venture capital and children as bonus, elite is useing their white skin to get children whiter so they can join elites of hindustan. That is very good point Prof. Masadi brought out enslavement is mental and that is devastating. I have also slave mentality and lover of white color and use to tell my females relatives to shun dark people for children will be even darker. But I read the writings and began to feel sad that I was controlled by international capitalist cultural ethos and has imbibed in my blood. I am try to get rid of myself such prejudices. At same time elite of Indo Pak always look for whiter mates and totally controlled ``white`` mental emperialism. I have seen lots of liberals but they are elite, I have met many parents who are liberal but they say good about color blind but they always seek whiter and treat bad daughter in laws bad who are little darker. Also they like to compensated by money if partner is dark, again elite mental slavery.
THat is how cultural elite works. They drink alcohol and sin , feast on dead bodies of pig.Wester elite has controlled our mental ethos that was Masadi said appealed me.
I think first many ignored M.Asadi and then they criticised and now want to make fun and show contempt for him which I do not agree. Now I do not have to agree to all portion of his thesis.
Only thing I and Mr.M.Asadi differ is the historical interpreation. ( I have not been to USA so there is good possibility , have no good knowledge).
My feeling about Emperialism of USA.
It is misnomer to consider USA as a Imperialist country but its opposite to that though it is led all times by elites.
USA was made first break of largest empire of that time the british empire and inspired others. They defeated English and spanish imperialists on Americas land. They told strenly europeans to keep way from imperial plans from America. President Munrow issued strict warning not make problems in america specially south.
They kicked spanish from Cuba.
They destroyed european empires in 1st world war, german emipre became history, Ottaman empire was finished and liberating arabs. In second war they destroyed again german and Japan empire. They finished soviet empire and always helped in little conflits for liberation some time by default ( pakistani rule in B.Desh) or serbian emperialism by force, they demolished white empire of south Africa. Actually I feel United states is destroyer of Empires, they have no affilation to anybody. Now they themselves have done wrong but its destroyer of empires , they are elemental not sofistaicated as europeans or modest and cunning as chinese or indian or pakistani race. They are crude destroyers of great empires. This is only I do not agree with Prof. M.Asadi.
Again hope stop redicule study masadi.
Any way people are not respectable, little indian IIT and management type think they are elite but they are at low caste compared to white elites.
Any way I will go for walk and enjoy. I want get way from hateful atmosphere here.

chaltahai writes <<< Now that 80% of americans are in the stock market directly or indrectly...what is the gripe? >>>

The vast majority of stocks are held by a very tiny percent of the population. 80% of America does not attend elite institutions, populate boards of corporations, employ the vast majority of Americans, populate think tanks and policy boards or run in elections or dominate the mass media. I would recommend you sharpen your critical thinking skills...

If any of you have relevant concerns with the topic on hand, let me know and I will try my best to answer them, regarding distractions and off topic inquiries, I have entertained them long enough and have better things to do with my time. Let me know if I missed answering any relevant questions. I glance over the multiple responses, don`t have time to carefully study all of them, so missing questions hidden in them is easy but not deliberate.

dost writes <<< As far as the article itself is concerned, the autor could bring more credibility to his hypothesis if he were to provide evidence that Huntington was supported by the US war-mongering machine to formulate his `clash` theory >>>

I am in the ``business`` of writing sociological analysis of ideas, perceptions and realities and not mystery novels. I can see the latent function being fulfilled by the Huntington thesis. Whether an fbi agent contracted him on a back alley to get rights to use his work for US global domination, with promises of increased royalties, is not my concern, or something that I would bother to write about or consider as evidence...

hamid writes <<< ........... and you can see it in the attitude of the younger indian generation - they walk tall and proud unlike miserable folks like you >>>>

My dear ignorant ignoramus, as a percentage of corporate board members of the mighty corporations and ceo`s the indians are almost non existant. Their ``new economy`` has done almost nothing to alleviate poverty and the poverty figures there are as high or higher than they used to be, given real measures which we discussed long time back. It has created a new class of peons of the west and the west in its cultural hegemony has ensured that everyone wearing a fake GAP shirt feels proud and accomplished. Real independant and free thinking people are the ones who seek alternative directions to the misery the West has forced upon us historically and now institutionally in more subtle ways...

Re: # 255
[...Madani sahib wake up....]

Madani is a old coot who has lived his entire life with his head buried deep inside you-know-where... sorry about the strong language about a senior citizen, but by god, madani is a freak of highest order... :)

These people are unbelievable...

If this person is a director of education, then education takes a new meaning. She could have said that these books will be or have been removed, or those offensive chapters. Her multi-culturalism seems to be choice between Islam nor or hellfire later. Instead of opium, as lenin had called, it is fear of the later. Putting fear in young minds, and sill people do not see it.

Very sad state of education, in the richest Islamic state, where these books constitute educating young minds. Madani sahib wake up.

Re: # 250

ahmedmadani sahib,

......... as my favourite interactor, i am surprised and disappointed that you have chosen to defend this charlatan masadi ....you say, ``First you read all works of Prof. M. Asadi and also related works by Prof Mills `` ............ first of all, i don`t think he is a real professor - i doubt very much that any respectable university would give him a phd based on his reading of one book by somone named mills ........... now that he is back in pakistan, i am sure he will manage to get a phd from dr amir liaqat`s school or the jamia lal masjid`s islamic university, but that does not make him a scholar ............ the man is a flaming jihadi and is one stick of dynamite short of an explosion ........... secondly, i don`t think anyone with a brain and a job has the time or patience to read his islamo-marxist nonsense ...........

Re: # 252 mad-ani

After watching that video - the first thing this paki does is blame the poster and then blame interviewer, even abusing him as the ``white monkey``... instead of clearly condemning fascist practices by the islamofascists and saudis, this guy Mad-ani is actually defending them with excuses....

un-f****ing-believable...

Either way - the brits have a big problem in their hands... moreover, after this report - if that school is still open and operating in London, then good luck to the Brits, the ``white monkeys`` as Mad-ani calls them... :)

Re: # 251
I do think this white reporter R. Watson is recist type and has no sense how to behave with director of Education as he is aggressive and he is white monkey in my opinion. When middle east was doing agricultural activity white pale colored people were living in caves wearing coat of lives animals and eating insects and crawling like animals and eating food like animals. Due to lack of sunlight they are pink and cave dwelling mentality and vicious they just think of stealing ( animal instinct) and attacking and eating.. Now man crazy asking if you withdraw books when he knows that school books are authorised by elected school board not by professors. Just harrassing woman who is having PhD from white Univ and this monkey man is just highschool graduate person devoid of decency. But person who put this dirty laundry to dry here from English propanganda machine should be suied being arrogent and not gentleman.