Huntington's Clash of Civilizations Thesis
M Asadi February 2, 2007
#363 Posted by DavidHume on March 23, 2007 6:52:32 am
Edward Said`s lecture is available online at [youtube.com] (search for ``Myth of the Clash of Civilizations``).
The War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells can be found at Project Gutenberg [gutenberg.org].
Huntington`s essay in .pdf can be found at [http://www.allannoble.net/articles_by_samuel_huntington.htm].
The idea of clashing civilizations originated in a debate between Francis Fukuyama and Samuel Huntington in the early 1990s following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Samuel Huntington`s now famous essay ``The Clash of Civilizations?`` (1993) was a response to Francis Fukuyama`s book The End of History and the Last Man (1992).
First, the “clash of civilizations” is not a gimmick, it is a broad conceptual tool used to understand what one sees in the world. Like all theories it is parsimonious and can therefore be criticized. This is how academics make a living. A theory does not have to be right it just has to be helpful and Huntington gave the world a helpful theory. That theory: “It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation-states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future.” [Read a newspaper lately?]
Second, most of Huntington’s critics have never read his essay (later printed as a book).
This makes it easy to misrepresent his position. Said of course read the essay/book and masterfully creates a straw-man and whacks and whacks it. He uses Huntington as a foil for his own personal world-view (which he had held long before Huntington put pen to paper). The fact Bernard Lewis was the source of the phrase “clash of civilizations” I am sure was unforgivable. Said of course wrote Orientalism (1978) which made orientalist a dirty word.
Third, Said was an American. Said was a Christian. Said was a secularist. I wonder if his admirers are aware of these facts. His criticism of Huntington was a criticism of anyone, where-so-ever, who would attempt to classify large segments of people into monolithic blocks. Said was addressing an American audience in the speech linked above. Said was addressing an American audience in his essay “The Clash of Ignorance” [The Nation, October 2001]. Said was a part of the American dialogue. His desire was to transcend the barriers that keep us apart, and create a common humanity. Using Said only as a hatchet man against America is to do a horrible injustice to him. Everything he said/wrote is equally applicable to you and yours.
In conclusion, 1) Huntington gave political scientists a workable theory; what decision-makers do with it is another matter (the theory is descriptive not prescriptive as Said would have us believe). 2) Said used a critique of Huntington as a foil to advance his own world-view (a world-view shared by millions of his fellow Americans). 3) It is completely disingenuous to use Said as a one-sided critic. His message went much deeper. 4) People should actually read the books for themselves and make up their own mind (Said did not write scripture). Sapere aude!!
[in memoriam Edward Wadie Said 1935-2003 a great American]
The War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells can be found at Project Gutenberg [gutenberg.org].
Huntington`s essay in .pdf can be found at [http://www.allannoble.net/articles_by_samuel_huntington.htm].
The idea of clashing civilizations originated in a debate between Francis Fukuyama and Samuel Huntington in the early 1990s following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Samuel Huntington`s now famous essay ``The Clash of Civilizations?`` (1993) was a response to Francis Fukuyama`s book The End of History and the Last Man (1992).
First, the “clash of civilizations” is not a gimmick, it is a broad conceptual tool used to understand what one sees in the world. Like all theories it is parsimonious and can therefore be criticized. This is how academics make a living. A theory does not have to be right it just has to be helpful and Huntington gave the world a helpful theory. That theory: “It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation-states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future.” [Read a newspaper lately?]
Second, most of Huntington’s critics have never read his essay (later printed as a book).
This makes it easy to misrepresent his position. Said of course read the essay/book and masterfully creates a straw-man and whacks and whacks it. He uses Huntington as a foil for his own personal world-view (which he had held long before Huntington put pen to paper). The fact Bernard Lewis was the source of the phrase “clash of civilizations” I am sure was unforgivable. Said of course wrote Orientalism (1978) which made orientalist a dirty word.
Third, Said was an American. Said was a Christian. Said was a secularist. I wonder if his admirers are aware of these facts. His criticism of Huntington was a criticism of anyone, where-so-ever, who would attempt to classify large segments of people into monolithic blocks. Said was addressing an American audience in the speech linked above. Said was addressing an American audience in his essay “The Clash of Ignorance” [The Nation, October 2001]. Said was a part of the American dialogue. His desire was to transcend the barriers that keep us apart, and create a common humanity. Using Said only as a hatchet man against America is to do a horrible injustice to him. Everything he said/wrote is equally applicable to you and yours.
In conclusion, 1) Huntington gave political scientists a workable theory; what decision-makers do with it is another matter (the theory is descriptive not prescriptive as Said would have us believe). 2) Said used a critique of Huntington as a foil to advance his own world-view (a world-view shared by millions of his fellow Americans). 3) It is completely disingenuous to use Said as a one-sided critic. His message went much deeper. 4) People should actually read the books for themselves and make up their own mind (Said did not write scripture). Sapere aude!!
[in memoriam Edward Wadie Said 1935-2003 a great American]
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#362 Posted by masadi on February 11, 2007 9:21:58 pm
Putin says U.S. wants to dominate world
Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:02PM EST
MUNICH, Germany (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, in one of his harshest attacks on the United States in seven years in power, accused Washington on Saturday of attempting to force its will on the world.
The White House said it was ``surprised and disappointed`` by Putin`s accusations but added Washington expected to continue to work with Moscow in areas such as counter-terrorism and reducing the spread and threat of weapons of mass destruction.
In a speech in Germany, which one U.S. senator said smacked of Cold War rhetoric, Putin accused the United States of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it ``one single master``.
Attacking the concept of a ``unipolar`` world in which the United States was the sole superpower, he said: ``What is a unipolar world? No matter how we beautify this term it means one single center of power, one single center of force and one single master.``
``It has nothing in common with democracy because that is the opinion of the majority taking into account the minority opinion,`` he told the gathering of top security and defense officials.
``People are always teaching us democracy but the people who teach us democracy don`t want to learn it themselves.``
The news should have been captioned
Putin rises from deep slumber, or it could find its way into an ad for Folgers Coffee
Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:02PM EST
MUNICH, Germany (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, in one of his harshest attacks on the United States in seven years in power, accused Washington on Saturday of attempting to force its will on the world.
The White House said it was ``surprised and disappointed`` by Putin`s accusations but added Washington expected to continue to work with Moscow in areas such as counter-terrorism and reducing the spread and threat of weapons of mass destruction.
In a speech in Germany, which one U.S. senator said smacked of Cold War rhetoric, Putin accused the United States of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it ``one single master``.
Attacking the concept of a ``unipolar`` world in which the United States was the sole superpower, he said: ``What is a unipolar world? No matter how we beautify this term it means one single center of power, one single center of force and one single master.``
``It has nothing in common with democracy because that is the opinion of the majority taking into account the minority opinion,`` he told the gathering of top security and defense officials.
``People are always teaching us democracy but the people who teach us democracy don`t want to learn it themselves.``
The news should have been captioned
Putin rises from deep slumber, or it could find its way into an ad for Folgers Coffee
#361 Posted by arjun2 on February 11, 2007 4:03:48 pm
After Tata, it`s Birla: Magic of metalAdd to Clippings
MUMBAI: After the Tatas snapped up Corus, this is another great Indian takeover in the wings. The A V Birla Group has bid for the Canadian aluminium giant Novelis Inc for $6 billion (or about Rs 26,400 crore). If this mega transaction goes through, Novelis and A V Birla company, Hindalco, will jointly become the world’s largest aluminium rolling company, one of the biggest producers of primary aluminium in Asia, and India’s leading copper producer.
At a packed press conference here today, Kumar Mangalam Birla, chairman of the A V Birla group, maintained a remarkably straight face as he announced Hindalco’s plan to take over Novelis, based in Atlanta, US. If there was any excitement surrounding the impending deal, Birla did not betray it. ‘‘We are very excited,’’ was all he would offer.
For various reasons, the Hindalco story is an astonishing one. To start with, it demonstrates that Tata Steel’s acquisition of Corus wasn’t a one-off case of Third World chutzpah. Instead, there is serious Indian money chasing equally serious global assets.
Two years ago, for instance, when an Indian company went shopping abroad, it paid, on average $32 million to close a deal. At the end of 2005, for all the 136 purchases made by Indian companies, $4.3 billion were paid. By the first half of 2006, Indian companies started looking at marginally bigger targets and the average deal size went up to $47 million. They ended the year acquiring 145 companies and paid a little over $8 billion. It’s been only 42 days since 2007 begun and three Indian companies have committed close to $19 billion.
MUMBAI: After the Tatas snapped up Corus, this is another great Indian takeover in the wings. The A V Birla Group has bid for the Canadian aluminium giant Novelis Inc for $6 billion (or about Rs 26,400 crore). If this mega transaction goes through, Novelis and A V Birla company, Hindalco, will jointly become the world’s largest aluminium rolling company, one of the biggest producers of primary aluminium in Asia, and India’s leading copper producer.
At a packed press conference here today, Kumar Mangalam Birla, chairman of the A V Birla group, maintained a remarkably straight face as he announced Hindalco’s plan to take over Novelis, based in Atlanta, US. If there was any excitement surrounding the impending deal, Birla did not betray it. ‘‘We are very excited,’’ was all he would offer.
For various reasons, the Hindalco story is an astonishing one. To start with, it demonstrates that Tata Steel’s acquisition of Corus wasn’t a one-off case of Third World chutzpah. Instead, there is serious Indian money chasing equally serious global assets.
Two years ago, for instance, when an Indian company went shopping abroad, it paid, on average $32 million to close a deal. At the end of 2005, for all the 136 purchases made by Indian companies, $4.3 billion were paid. By the first half of 2006, Indian companies started looking at marginally bigger targets and the average deal size went up to $47 million. They ended the year acquiring 145 companies and paid a little over $8 billion. It’s been only 42 days since 2007 begun and three Indian companies have committed close to $19 billion.
#360 Posted by arjun2 on February 10, 2007 5:05:39 pm
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Musharraf 15th in list of ‘worst dictators’
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: President Pervez Musharraf once again finds himself in unwelcome company, having been included by Parade magazine, distributed with every daily newspaper in America on Saturdays, among the “world’s worst dictators”.
The listing is drawn up in part from reports by international human rights organisations and the US State Department. The editors’ own prejudices must also play a part. The numbering and placement of the name is determined by the perceived severity of the dictatorship. The Pakistani leader was No 17 last year but has moved up two places to No 15 this year.
On top of the list stands Omar al-Bashir of Sudan, followed by Kim Jong-Il of North Korea, Sayyid Ali Khamenei of Iran, Hu Jintao of China, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Than Shwe of Burma, Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan, Muammar al-Qaddafi of Libya, Bashar al-Assad of Syria, Teodoro Obiang Nguema of Equatorial Guinea, King Mswati III of Swaziland, Isayas of Afewerki of Eritrea, Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, Choummaly Sayasone of Laos. Meles Zenawi of Ethiopia, Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Paul Biya of Cameroon and Vladimir Putin of Russia.
The longest ruling leader on the list of 20 is Qaddafi, who has been in power since 1969. The oldest of the rulers is King Abudllah who is 83, and the youngest King Mswati III of Swaziland who is 38.
#359 Posted by zeemax on February 10, 2007 12:07:40 am
#350 by SR
.. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point....
You know, one lives and learns. And, I have learnt lately that regardless of how strongly one believes he may be right, he may actually be wrong. I have lately come to realize that the `consumerism` driver and the liquidity boom let loose by this economic team in Pakistan (for whom I have now developed some respect after watching results) was the only `real` workable option under Pakistan`s politico-economic as well as it`s foreign relations stance post 9/11.
Let me elaborate as suggested:
I have been on record as voiceforously criticising Pakistan`s decision not to mop-up the post 9/11 influx of some $ 18 billion by issuance of fresh Government bonds for infrastructure development, and instead to let it remain in the money market. This would have been perfect in any other scenario, but the Debt/GDP ratio at that time was close to 100%, and the Government taking on further debt would have driven the ratio through the roof, plus multiplying the fiscal deficit, both reflecting negatively in Pakistan`s sovereign ratings. Instead, the excess liquidity did the following (much in the same order):
1) Drove commercial borrowing interest rates down from 21% to 2.25%, boosting corporate profits, re-investment and capacity utilization.
2) Stock market boom and foreign portfolio investment resulting from (1).
3) Real Estate market escalation and influx of high-quality foreign builders/developers, cement and allied 200 (+) tertiary industries growth.
4) Consumer finance and auto-manufacturing /household appliances boom resulting in huge capacity additions and entry of manufacturers/assemblers.
5) Banking sector profits tripling due to all of above strengthening their balance sheets and entry of large foreign players/take-overs/mergers.
6) Reduction of direct borrowing from central bank, fiscal deficit, and budget deficit and sufficient fiscal space for increase in Public Sector Development Programmes (PSDP).
7) Reduction in debt/GDP from 100% to 56% and improvement in sovereign ratings.
8) Entry and bench-marking in international sovereign as well as corporate bond/GDR markets with over $ 4 billion hugely oversubscribed issues due to (7).
9) Reduction of cost in foreign borrowing due to reduction of country-risk premiums, and in domestic borrowing through lowering of rates in National Savings Schemes.
10) Overall FDI conducive atmosphere beginning to attract serious long-term foreign flows.
In short, although myself personally have always favoured a domestically/internally driven growth, but Pakistan did the opposite i.e. taking the externally driven path. At the end of the day, I guess whatever works is the best. The above is working very well.
The risks, are (a) the savings/investment to GDP is very low. This must improve with increase in wealth and dis-incentivizing capital flight by residents and; (b) the current account deficit. This was inevitable given the above route. However, in the words of the Resident Director of World Bank based in Islamabad - ``It is fixable``.
Cheers!
(P.S) Best of luck and wishes in your venture with Bulleya. I have no doubt that with your combined talents, success will not be very far from the word `go`.
.. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point....
You know, one lives and learns. And, I have learnt lately that regardless of how strongly one believes he may be right, he may actually be wrong. I have lately come to realize that the `consumerism` driver and the liquidity boom let loose by this economic team in Pakistan (for whom I have now developed some respect after watching results) was the only `real` workable option under Pakistan`s politico-economic as well as it`s foreign relations stance post 9/11.
Let me elaborate as suggested:
I have been on record as voiceforously criticising Pakistan`s decision not to mop-up the post 9/11 influx of some $ 18 billion by issuance of fresh Government bonds for infrastructure development, and instead to let it remain in the money market. This would have been perfect in any other scenario, but the Debt/GDP ratio at that time was close to 100%, and the Government taking on further debt would have driven the ratio through the roof, plus multiplying the fiscal deficit, both reflecting negatively in Pakistan`s sovereign ratings. Instead, the excess liquidity did the following (much in the same order):
1) Drove commercial borrowing interest rates down from 21% to 2.25%, boosting corporate profits, re-investment and capacity utilization.
2) Stock market boom and foreign portfolio investment resulting from (1).
3) Real Estate market escalation and influx of high-quality foreign builders/developers, cement and allied 200 (+) tertiary industries growth.
4) Consumer finance and auto-manufacturing /household appliances boom resulting in huge capacity additions and entry of manufacturers/assemblers.
5) Banking sector profits tripling due to all of above strengthening their balance sheets and entry of large foreign players/take-overs/mergers.
6) Reduction of direct borrowing from central bank, fiscal deficit, and budget deficit and sufficient fiscal space for increase in Public Sector Development Programmes (PSDP).
7) Reduction in debt/GDP from 100% to 56% and improvement in sovereign ratings.
8) Entry and bench-marking in international sovereign as well as corporate bond/GDR markets with over $ 4 billion hugely oversubscribed issues due to (7).
9) Reduction of cost in foreign borrowing due to reduction of country-risk premiums, and in domestic borrowing through lowering of rates in National Savings Schemes.
10) Overall FDI conducive atmosphere beginning to attract serious long-term foreign flows.
In short, although myself personally have always favoured a domestically/internally driven growth, but Pakistan did the opposite i.e. taking the externally driven path. At the end of the day, I guess whatever works is the best. The above is working very well.
The risks, are (a) the savings/investment to GDP is very low. This must improve with increase in wealth and dis-incentivizing capital flight by residents and; (b) the current account deficit. This was inevitable given the above route. However, in the words of the Resident Director of World Bank based in Islamabad - ``It is fixable``.
Cheers!
(P.S) Best of luck and wishes in your venture with Bulleya. I have no doubt that with your combined talents, success will not be very far from the word `go`.
#358 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2007 10:54:17 pm
#357 by hamidm2
...last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees...
Next time try getting your stock of premium scotch from across the border for Rs. 1500/litre in Lahore. These horrible hindoos are not completely good-for-nothing I guess ...
...last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees...
Next time try getting your stock of premium scotch from across the border for Rs. 1500/litre in Lahore. These horrible hindoos are not completely good-for-nothing I guess ...
#357 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2007 6:01:26 pm
Re: # 345
SR,
..... i refer you to ayaz amir`s column in today`s dawn .........
..........i go to islamabad at least once a year and you are right in that booze is freely available in islamabad, but it is still a clandestine affair and you still have to make `arrangements` whether they are at a restaurant or through your special bootlegger or the indian high commisssion (the horrible hindoos know how to make a rupee!)......... ayaz mentions that there are six `good` bootleggers in isloo, but he is a very `connected` person - i know of only three .......
p.s. last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees - which, i think, is unislamic profiteering ........
SR,
..... i refer you to ayaz amir`s column in today`s dawn .........
..........i go to islamabad at least once a year and you are right in that booze is freely available in islamabad, but it is still a clandestine affair and you still have to make `arrangements` whether they are at a restaurant or through your special bootlegger or the indian high commisssion (the horrible hindoos know how to make a rupee!)......... ayaz mentions that there are six `good` bootleggers in isloo, but he is a very `connected` person - i know of only three .......
p.s. last year a 20 dollar fifth of beefeaters gin was going for 5000 rupees - which, i think, is unislamic profiteering ........
#356 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 3:45:06 pm
#353 by bulleya on February 9, 2007 2:56pm PT
neither of you has any conviction in actions........
Jeez Louise..is this the same capt clueless who, in the heady days after 9/11, was telling us that he wanted to quit his job and join the American invasion of afghanistan(because the Americans needed handholding he told us)..
you only went to canuckistan because if you didn`t ICE was going to deport your rear back to pakiland...t-shirt with paki flag and all....
heck...urstruly is at least honest about being a sleeper cell...
neither of you has any conviction in actions........
Jeez Louise..is this the same capt clueless who, in the heady days after 9/11, was telling us that he wanted to quit his job and join the American invasion of afghanistan(because the Americans needed handholding he told us)..
you only went to canuckistan because if you didn`t ICE was going to deport your rear back to pakiland...t-shirt with paki flag and all....
heck...urstruly is at least honest about being a sleeper cell...
#355 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 3:30:07 pm
Re: # 351 bulleya {``...any talented person i can get my hands on is welcomed to consider this......give me about two months and then i will contact you...}
If you contact me soon, I could put you in touch with others of similar conviction and intent.
...SR
If you contact me soon, I could put you in touch with others of similar conviction and intent.
...SR
#354 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 3:02:25 pm
#350 by SR on February 9, 2007 1:39pm PT
Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
Gee..it looks like pakis, allah`s chosen people(allah`s jews if you will), are going to miss that boat too..
Oh the irony..
India`s Infosys in talks with banks for its Islamic banking IT solutions
New Delhi, Feb 5, IRNA ,
Targeting the Islamic Banking community, which needs customized Information Technology (IT) solutions, India`s Infosys Technologies is aggressively looking at tapping the burgeoning segment having already bagged a beta customer -- Arab National Bank.
Infosys Finacle Vice President and Business Head Merwin Fernandes said here on Monday, ``We already have got the first customer Arab National Bank and are developing full-fledged banking solutions for them, (that is) expected to be operational by the end of this year,`` reported Press Trust of India.
He said the company is in talks with several Tier-I and II banks in the Middle East and South East Asia region and is hoping to bag few more orders soon.
Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
Gee..it looks like pakis, allah`s chosen people(allah`s jews if you will), are going to miss that boat too..
Oh the irony..
India`s Infosys in talks with banks for its Islamic banking IT solutions
New Delhi, Feb 5, IRNA ,
Targeting the Islamic Banking community, which needs customized Information Technology (IT) solutions, India`s Infosys Technologies is aggressively looking at tapping the burgeoning segment having already bagged a beta customer -- Arab National Bank.
Infosys Finacle Vice President and Business Head Merwin Fernandes said here on Monday, ``We already have got the first customer Arab National Bank and are developing full-fledged banking solutions for them, (that is) expected to be operational by the end of this year,`` reported Press Trust of India.
He said the company is in talks with several Tier-I and II banks in the Middle East and South East Asia region and is hoping to bag few more orders soon.
#353 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2007 2:56:59 pm
hamidm2 mian #344: ``........ urstruly lives in america and HATES everything about it and it is quite possible he is actively working to undermine it by robbing parking meters and spitting on the sidewalk .......... i, on the other hand, live in the us and love it``
....you and urstruly are more alike than you realize........i have been saying this for a long time.....perhaps you thought i was joking.......however, i was serious......by the way, there is nothing wrong with being similar to urstruly (or being similar to you)........
......urstruly and you have centered your views around profit and loss....neither of you has any conviction in actions........urstruly hates the usa, but when he realized his profit was based there, he made a deal with the devil and disregarded his beliefs.......he, thus, lives in the usa, while simultaneously criticizing it as the mother of all evils......
.......you hate religion and the religious right, but when you realized your profit was based there, you made a deal with the devil and jumped on the evangelical bandwagon of george bush and disregarded your beliefs......you, thus, support the religious right of the usa, while simultaneously criticizing religion as the mother of all evils.......
......both urstruly and you, go on and on (and on and on) about problems in pakistan and call for violent actions against those problems......you think there are too many maulvis in pakistan, he thinks there aren`t enough......both of you keep criticizing some part of pakistan, some institution, some group, some individual for destroying the place.....both of you keep highlighting how far behind pakistan is falling.........but......
but...i can bet a million dollars neither of you will ever go there and do anything yourselves.....both of you want someone else to fix the place, so you can return there and retire in comfort........
.......both of you are dead sure (200% sure) that your ideas are correct and everyone else is a fool.........come hell or highwater, neither of you will ever see anything even remotely wrong with your respective belief systems........to the point, that it is literally impossible to ever get either of you to change your opinion on anything.......
after thousands of replies and exchanges on this site that both of you must have particiapated in, with hundreds of interactors, i highly doubt there has been a single change in your respective views and beliefs, from the day you joined......they are identical to what they were when you started interacting here, on day one.......
.....so in a nutshell, both of you are far too sure of yourselves, far too convinced of your ideas, ridicule others far too much, and are far too quick to look at profits over convictions and principles.......
p.s. don`t take the above personally.......i like beating up on you once a year, when i feel you are starting to get too big for your britches......
....you and urstruly are more alike than you realize........i have been saying this for a long time.....perhaps you thought i was joking.......however, i was serious......by the way, there is nothing wrong with being similar to urstruly (or being similar to you)........
......urstruly and you have centered your views around profit and loss....neither of you has any conviction in actions........urstruly hates the usa, but when he realized his profit was based there, he made a deal with the devil and disregarded his beliefs.......he, thus, lives in the usa, while simultaneously criticizing it as the mother of all evils......
.......you hate religion and the religious right, but when you realized your profit was based there, you made a deal with the devil and jumped on the evangelical bandwagon of george bush and disregarded your beliefs......you, thus, support the religious right of the usa, while simultaneously criticizing religion as the mother of all evils.......
......both urstruly and you, go on and on (and on and on) about problems in pakistan and call for violent actions against those problems......you think there are too many maulvis in pakistan, he thinks there aren`t enough......both of you keep criticizing some part of pakistan, some institution, some group, some individual for destroying the place.....both of you keep highlighting how far behind pakistan is falling.........but......
but...i can bet a million dollars neither of you will ever go there and do anything yourselves.....both of you want someone else to fix the place, so you can return there and retire in comfort........
.......both of you are dead sure (200% sure) that your ideas are correct and everyone else is a fool.........come hell or highwater, neither of you will ever see anything even remotely wrong with your respective belief systems........to the point, that it is literally impossible to ever get either of you to change your opinion on anything.......
after thousands of replies and exchanges on this site that both of you must have particiapated in, with hundreds of interactors, i highly doubt there has been a single change in your respective views and beliefs, from the day you joined......they are identical to what they were when you started interacting here, on day one.......
.....so in a nutshell, both of you are far too sure of yourselves, far too convinced of your ideas, ridicule others far too much, and are far too quick to look at profits over convictions and principles.......
p.s. don`t take the above personally.......i like beating up on you once a year, when i feel you are starting to get too big for your britches......
#352 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 2:52:55 pm
#349 by Kulharee on February 9, 2007 1:13pm PT
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going.
Absolutely...but these pakistanis are contributing by not doing the whole islamic nutcase thing..bricks over bombs, if you will...
the whole point here is that malaysia is successful despite the islamic influence, not because of it...same thing for india..if it were up to the BJP, they`d be building cow-pee research institutes instead of incentivizing Infosys etc..another fine example: Dubai..with it`s liberal drive-most-pure-paki-muslims-nuts culture..
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going.
Absolutely...but these pakistanis are contributing by not doing the whole islamic nutcase thing..bricks over bombs, if you will...
the whole point here is that malaysia is successful despite the islamic influence, not because of it...same thing for india..if it were up to the BJP, they`d be building cow-pee research institutes instead of incentivizing Infosys etc..another fine example: Dubai..with it`s liberal drive-most-pure-paki-muslims-nuts culture..
#351 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2007 2:33:14 pm
SR#350: ``Well, you don`t seem like you are just bullshitting, so yes, let`s talk.....``
...rest assured i am not bs-ing.....if all goes well, in about 45 days or so, i will be leaving my beloved canada......life should be a journey and not a destination.....so destiny beckons, once again......(sidenote: if all does not go well, then i will still be in canada).........
i have been trying to figure this out, for over two years, and even discussed in over dinner with the one to two poeple on chowk, who have met me.......nothing seemed to be working...however, now i am pretty close......
.....we will basically be doing projects in uae and then as an off-shoot of those, get pakistani projects......i will need to build up team(s) of people on the banking side for pakistan (and uae)......so any talented person i can get my hands on is welcomed to consider this......give me about two months and then i will contact you.....
``This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. ....``
.......you are preaching to the choir.....this is the area i am concentrating on now....we actually have a study group, which meets regularly to discuss this......malaysia is the center of this.......islamic banking is making millionaires out of people who have even just a little bit of knowledge in this field.......there is an ex-shariah court judge of pakistani who now sits on the shariah boards of hsbc and other banks........must be raking it in........
......who says maulvis don`t know how to do business.......
......this is where the next IT boom is going to be in banking software, in my opinion......as all other financial fields are quite well understood and have quite a few software and banking products in place......interestingly, some of the earliest software products in this field are coming from indian companies.......
...rest assured i am not bs-ing.....if all goes well, in about 45 days or so, i will be leaving my beloved canada......life should be a journey and not a destination.....so destiny beckons, once again......(sidenote: if all does not go well, then i will still be in canada).........
i have been trying to figure this out, for over two years, and even discussed in over dinner with the one to two poeple on chowk, who have met me.......nothing seemed to be working...however, now i am pretty close......
.....we will basically be doing projects in uae and then as an off-shoot of those, get pakistani projects......i will need to build up team(s) of people on the banking side for pakistan (and uae)......so any talented person i can get my hands on is welcomed to consider this......give me about two months and then i will contact you.....
``This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. ....``
.......you are preaching to the choir.....this is the area i am concentrating on now....we actually have a study group, which meets regularly to discuss this......malaysia is the center of this.......islamic banking is making millionaires out of people who have even just a little bit of knowledge in this field.......there is an ex-shariah court judge of pakistani who now sits on the shariah boards of hsbc and other banks........must be raking it in........
......who says maulvis don`t know how to do business.......
......this is where the next IT boom is going to be in banking software, in my opinion......as all other financial fields are quite well understood and have quite a few software and banking products in place......interestingly, some of the earliest software products in this field are coming from indian companies.......
#350 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 1:39:16 pm
Re: # 342 bulleya {``.....pakistan has had quite a turnaround in its banking sector......infrastructure, IT of banks etc.......there are foreign companies lining up to buy these banks now.......a lot of projects begging to be delivered, with no skillsets available......i have been in contact with various individuals from india, as that is the only way to do these projects....and am days away from getting something going.......
how are your skills in the risk management, assets and liability management and islamic banking space?....``}
Yes, I agree, tremendous strides have been made, and are still being made, in the finance sector. But that is mostly on the surface. And the multinationals and big banks will mostly benefit from it. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Masadi that most of these developments are not going to enhance the lives of ``ordinary`` Pakistanis... The 80%, that is, who live in single bedroom dwellings. That was the reason I mentioned Public Health and not Finance. There is indeed tons of money to be made in finance. But the ``need`` of the unwashed masses, as hamidm calls them, is Education and Health.
The power of the financial institutions is growing by leaps and bounds everyday. The economy is turning from a cash / barter economy to a financial economy with more and more leverage being built into the system. The monetary base is growing far faster than the real economy and that concerns me for the long run. There is gross misallocation of capital taking place and that is building many structural distortions into the economy. Unfortunately, the army of MBA`s and US trained ``finance wizards`` are taking the country`s economy on the route of consumerism, as opposed to what other success stories in Asia have done. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point.
But coming to your point, yes, there is much work to be done and the time to do it is now. I spoke to several people in finance and learnt that the skillsets are lacking all the way around. For instance, they are about to open a commodities exchange this month yet the regulators do not understand the very basics of derivatives and risk transference. The whole field is not even in its infancy. It`s in its embrionic stage.
Well, you don`t seem like you are just bullshitting, so yes, let`s talk.
This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. Everyone and their mother will be clamoring for these so-called ``Islamic financial products`` by year-end 2009, if not sooner. Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
As for skillsets, you know I`ve always made it quite clear that I am a layman. That`s why I don`t fall in those same traps that Harward MBAs do. Whatever little I may know is purely self-taught through the university of hard knocks. My association with finance and economics is from my personal interest as a trader / speculator of some 20 years standing. Recently, however, I did have a brief synopsis in a John Wiley publications book authored by Dr. Alexander Elder. (click here) It`s no big deal, but I`m not totally annonymous any more.
Send me an email if you like: My last name spelled backwards at google`s mail service.
...SR
how are your skills in the risk management, assets and liability management and islamic banking space?....``}
Yes, I agree, tremendous strides have been made, and are still being made, in the finance sector. But that is mostly on the surface. And the multinationals and big banks will mostly benefit from it. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Masadi that most of these developments are not going to enhance the lives of ``ordinary`` Pakistanis... The 80%, that is, who live in single bedroom dwellings. That was the reason I mentioned Public Health and not Finance. There is indeed tons of money to be made in finance. But the ``need`` of the unwashed masses, as hamidm calls them, is Education and Health.
The power of the financial institutions is growing by leaps and bounds everyday. The economy is turning from a cash / barter economy to a financial economy with more and more leverage being built into the system. The monetary base is growing far faster than the real economy and that concerns me for the long run. There is gross misallocation of capital taking place and that is building many structural distortions into the economy. Unfortunately, the army of MBA`s and US trained ``finance wizards`` are taking the country`s economy on the route of consumerism, as opposed to what other success stories in Asia have done. Perhaps zeemax will elaborate further on this point.
But coming to your point, yes, there is much work to be done and the time to do it is now. I spoke to several people in finance and learnt that the skillsets are lacking all the way around. For instance, they are about to open a commodities exchange this month yet the regulators do not understand the very basics of derivatives and risk transference. The whole field is not even in its infancy. It`s in its embrionic stage.
Well, you don`t seem like you are just bullshitting, so yes, let`s talk.
This so-called ``Islamic banking`` is going to be the next BIG fad on Wall Street... I kid you not. Everyone and their mother will be clamoring for these so-called ``Islamic financial products`` by year-end 2009, if not sooner. Its going to expand like a bubble and the horrible hindus will make zillions selling them, if you don`t watch out. I know of an excellent ``Islamic finance`` prospect in development. It`s operationally based in NY, registered in Bahrain, and ready to be marketed as I write.
As for skillsets, you know I`ve always made it quite clear that I am a layman. That`s why I don`t fall in those same traps that Harward MBAs do. Whatever little I may know is purely self-taught through the university of hard knocks. My association with finance and economics is from my personal interest as a trader / speculator of some 20 years standing. Recently, however, I did have a brief synopsis in a John Wiley publications book authored by Dr. Alexander Elder. (click here) It`s no big deal, but I`m not totally annonymous any more.
Send me an email if you like: My last name spelled backwards at google`s mail service.
...SR
#349 Posted by Kulharee on February 9, 2007 1:13:03 pm
Re: # 348
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going. So please give credit where it is due.
Arjun, I beg to differ. The credit also goes to 1000s of Pakistani labors who keep the construction boom in Kuala Lumpur going. So please give credit where it is due.
#348 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 12:53:44 pm
#347 by zeemax on February 9, 2007 12:44pm PT
peemax...the ummah sure as heck doesn`t get credit for malaysia`s success...heck..malaysia succeeded to the extent it did despite the ummah`s influence...Indian and chinese origin malays contribute a lot to malaysia`s success...that`s soo not par for the course for an islamic country....
peemax...the ummah sure as heck doesn`t get credit for malaysia`s success...heck..malaysia succeeded to the extent it did despite the ummah`s influence...Indian and chinese origin malays contribute a lot to malaysia`s success...that`s soo not par for the course for an islamic country....
#347 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2007 12:44:14 pm
... and another chut`ya tries to take credit for Malysia`s success on some godforsaken hellhole called Kela-laa (banana-laa for the really dumb ones) or something where monkeys swing on trees ... haha
effing idiots ...
:~)
effing idiots ...
:~)
#346 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2007 12:35:57 pm
So all some chut`yas could pick out of #329 was the spellings of Mohatir and bars and nightlife in an Islamic countey .. haha
Effing idiots ...
:~)
Effing idiots ...
:~)
#345 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 12:30:48 pm
Re: # 344 hamidm {``...ONE problem with pakistan - the fact that i have to make `arrangements` to have a drink when i am there ...``}
What nonsense... your information is either outdated or you hang around with morons when you go there. I visited Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad last month and found the picture to be radically different.
All hotels, clubs and even several restaurants (particularly in Karachi) can accommodate you. Spirits and beers are available almost everywhere. But except for the UN club and Canadian club in Islamabad, wine is somewhat more difficult to come by. Since I do not drink any spirits or beer due to medical reasons, and wine is about the only thing I drink any more (that too just one glass with dinner) I didn`t benefit from this liberated atmosphere. There are many other private clubs in all three cities, particularly in Islamabad, that have open bars and disco dancing, etc... but that is for the youth. We old foggies missed the boat on that years ago. The atmosphere seems very different than it was in the days of Zina-ul Haq`s or his protege...
Everyone talks about Musharraf`s ``enlightened moderation`` and gets on with it. My wife and I are facultative vegetarians so it didn`t matter to us, but it may interest you to know that even pork products are available, at least in Islamabad. So have no fear saying good bye to Michigan when the time comes. I for one, frankly, felt ``safer`` in Islamabad, than I do in Washington DC.
The one hedonistic pleasure that was no good was the obsolete, smelly, distasteful and highly dissatisfactory charas... The shit not only stinks, it also tastes awful. Even the best of the best was like a candle before the sun if you compare it to the great Californian hydroponic product.
It isn`t out of a whim that I accept Romair`s ``invitation``... I really won`t mind moving to Isloo. But I`ll have to order some good seeds from Amsterdam first.
...SR
What nonsense... your information is either outdated or you hang around with morons when you go there. I visited Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad last month and found the picture to be radically different.
All hotels, clubs and even several restaurants (particularly in Karachi) can accommodate you. Spirits and beers are available almost everywhere. But except for the UN club and Canadian club in Islamabad, wine is somewhat more difficult to come by. Since I do not drink any spirits or beer due to medical reasons, and wine is about the only thing I drink any more (that too just one glass with dinner) I didn`t benefit from this liberated atmosphere. There are many other private clubs in all three cities, particularly in Islamabad, that have open bars and disco dancing, etc... but that is for the youth. We old foggies missed the boat on that years ago. The atmosphere seems very different than it was in the days of Zina-ul Haq`s or his protege...
Everyone talks about Musharraf`s ``enlightened moderation`` and gets on with it. My wife and I are facultative vegetarians so it didn`t matter to us, but it may interest you to know that even pork products are available, at least in Islamabad. So have no fear saying good bye to Michigan when the time comes. I for one, frankly, felt ``safer`` in Islamabad, than I do in Washington DC.
The one hedonistic pleasure that was no good was the obsolete, smelly, distasteful and highly dissatisfactory charas... The shit not only stinks, it also tastes awful. Even the best of the best was like a candle before the sun if you compare it to the great Californian hydroponic product.
It isn`t out of a whim that I accept Romair`s ``invitation``... I really won`t mind moving to Isloo. But I`ll have to order some good seeds from Amsterdam first.
...SR
#344 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2007 10:56:53 am
romair mian,
...... i think you are missing the big difference between me and urstruly :
........ urstruly lives in america and HATES everything about it and it is quite possible he is actively working to undermine it by robbing parking meters and spitting on the sidewalk ........
.......... i, on the other hand, live in the us and love it and i LOVE pakistan too - there are many many many things i love about pakistan, specially the liberating concept of domestic help and the ability to pee any where you want .......... that is why i plan to retire there ........ but i do have ONE problem with pakistan - the fact that i have to make `arrangements` to have a drink when i am there which i blame on the ideology being pushed by the mullahs and their flock of sheep ........ this fascination with an outdated bedouin ideology also prevents us from making material progess in business, industry and tantric sex .......
p.s. it seems that ayaz amir shares my concerns - see his column in today`s dawn
#343 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2007 10:08:26 am
hamidm2 mian#: ``...... so, even though i feel sorry for the millions of unwashed and unemployed abduls roaming the streets of pakistan and will gladly give them a couple of rupees, i do not intend to give up 24 hour electricity, central air, and clean public restrooms to help them out ............... ``
....this is fine....nothing wrong with enjoying the good life......what is wrong is to, then, spend the whole day talking about problems in pakistan and why others aren`t fixing them......a favorite trait of you and your alter-ego mr. truly..........
.......why not just enjoy your days in pleasant dearborn, michigan and not worry about pakistan.......
....this is fine....nothing wrong with enjoying the good life......what is wrong is to, then, spend the whole day talking about problems in pakistan and why others aren`t fixing them......a favorite trait of you and your alter-ego mr. truly..........
.......why not just enjoy your days in pleasant dearborn, michigan and not worry about pakistan.......
#342 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2007 10:04:53 am
SR#: 332: ``Let`s get started. You put the money and I`ll take my mouth with me to put it in. Okay, I`ll put my money too, just to be fair....``
....if you are serious, then please keep in touch....no money or investment is required.....only certain skillsets are required.....and you may not need to move to islamabad.......though much of the work will be in islamabad and in karachi.........
........pakistan has had quite a turnaround in its banking sector......infrastructure, IT of banks etc.......there are foreign companies lining up to buy these banks now.......a lot of projects begging to be delivered, with no skillsets available......i have been in contact with various individuals from india, as that is the only way to do these projects....and am days away from getting something going.......
how are your skills in the risk management, assets and liability management and islamic banking space?...........
....if you are serious, then please keep in touch....no money or investment is required.....only certain skillsets are required.....and you may not need to move to islamabad.......though much of the work will be in islamabad and in karachi.........
........pakistan has had quite a turnaround in its banking sector......infrastructure, IT of banks etc.......there are foreign companies lining up to buy these banks now.......a lot of projects begging to be delivered, with no skillsets available......i have been in contact with various individuals from india, as that is the only way to do these projects....and am days away from getting something going.......
how are your skills in the risk management, assets and liability management and islamic banking space?...........
#341 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 10:00:49 am
#339 by Kulharee on February 9, 2007 9:39am PT
oh..it`s peemax quoting mahathir..
that`s funny..a lot of western electronics companies make electronic products in malaysia because of, sit down for this, wage arbitration. yup..the same wage arbitration some people told us was a sign of slavery...
And when mahathir was the president, he used the Indian side of his brain and not his self-destructive ummah side to govern..he may have not been down with the whole west opressing the ummah homies thing but he had no problem is doing a lot of business with the west..
mahathir talks..and homies like zeemax just lap it up...never mind the fact that not one of the ummah nations has achieved as much as malaysia....
oh..it`s peemax quoting mahathir..
that`s funny..a lot of western electronics companies make electronic products in malaysia because of, sit down for this, wage arbitration. yup..the same wage arbitration some people told us was a sign of slavery...
And when mahathir was the president, he used the Indian side of his brain and not his self-destructive ummah side to govern..he may have not been down with the whole west opressing the ummah homies thing but he had no problem is doing a lot of business with the west..
mahathir talks..and homies like zeemax just lap it up...never mind the fact that not one of the ummah nations has achieved as much as malaysia....
#340 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 9:55:31 am
Things are looking up in Pakiland...If this keeps up, jihadi will be purged from the paki DNA in about 2 generations..
``>Education: signs of hope
By Pervez Hoodbhoy
Third, the White Paper team, headed by a respected retired civil servant, Javed Hasan Aly, starts with the premise that Pakistan seeks progress and prosperity: “Recognising education as a right of the citizen, it is the aim of the state of Pakistan to provide equal and ample opportunity to all its citizens to realise their full potential as individuals….preparing them for life, livelihood, and nation-building.”
This is in stark contrast to earlier education policies which saw Pakistani education as a tool to forcibly remake children’s minds. An official document, issued 11 years ago by the same ministry, had required that school children be taught to “make speeches on jihad and shahadat”; be aware of “India’s evil designs against Pakistan”; that they must “demonstrate by actions a belief in the fear of Allah”; go on field trips to “visit police stations”; and must “collect pictures of policemen, soldiers and National Guards”. (These are direct quotes.)
``>Education: signs of hope
By Pervez Hoodbhoy
Third, the White Paper team, headed by a respected retired civil servant, Javed Hasan Aly, starts with the premise that Pakistan seeks progress and prosperity: “Recognising education as a right of the citizen, it is the aim of the state of Pakistan to provide equal and ample opportunity to all its citizens to realise their full potential as individuals….preparing them for life, livelihood, and nation-building.”
This is in stark contrast to earlier education policies which saw Pakistani education as a tool to forcibly remake children’s minds. An official document, issued 11 years ago by the same ministry, had required that school children be taught to “make speeches on jihad and shahadat”; be aware of “India’s evil designs against Pakistan”; that they must “demonstrate by actions a belief in the fear of Allah”; go on field trips to “visit police stations”; and must “collect pictures of policemen, soldiers and National Guards”. (These are direct quotes.)
#338 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2007 9:37:00 am
romair mian,
``.....so, once again, i give you the offer: are you willing to quit your job and join me, and put your money where your mouth is? ...anyone can be a critic... ``
are you crazy ! ....... as much as i love pakistan, i love the good life better and since i don`t believe in houris and have no interest in young boys, i intend to live it to the fullest, right here in the good old usa where i can get a decent steak and beer any time i want .......
....... look, i feel sorry for homeless people and will give the man who says he `will work for food` a buck or two, but there is no way i will invite him to come in and sleep on my couch .......... much less, leave the comfort of my home to live with him under the bridge ! .......... i leave that up to people like masadi and mother teresa .........
...... so, even though i feel sorry for the millions of unwashed and unemployed abduls roaming the streets of pakistan and will gladly give them a couple of rupees, i do not intend to give up 24 hour electricity, central air, and clean public restrooms to help them out ............... in any case, their problems are much bigger than i can solve ........... of course it makes me sad when they blow themselves up because they have nothing to live for, but it is really not my fault - the fault lies with their regressive and obscurantist ideology pushed by their venal leadership which keeps them mired in misery while the rest of the world marches on ..........
....... but don`t let me stop you - if you want to do something `for` pakistan, go ahead ....... i wish you the best of luck and in a couple of years i would be more than happy to entertain you in islamabad from nov to march .......... just make sure the followers of the imam of lal masjid, maulana masadi, do not plant ied`s in the blue area ...........
#337 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 9:34:33 am
Kul...did someone quote mahathir?
Born in Alor Setar, the capital of the northern state of Kedah, Mahathir said in his autobiography that he had Indian ancestry (from his father), with its origins tracing back to Kerala in India, while his mother was a Kedah-born Malay.
Born in Alor Setar, the capital of the northern state of Kedah, Mahathir said in his autobiography that he had Indian ancestry (from his father), with its origins tracing back to Kerala in India, while his mother was a Kedah-born Malay.
#336 Posted by Kulharee on February 9, 2007 9:26:22 am
Re: # 335
Arjun, misquoting is the least of Masadi’s issues. It’s his bigoted and dogmatic opinions that are laughable. Masadi’s only motivation is hatred of the west as he feels threatened by muslims having a positive opinion of the western values of democracy, freedom of expression and religion among many other (he refers to them as dimwits and idiots). Some joker above was quoting Mahathir (not Mohatir) saying that muslims have forgotten the teachings of Quran, while having absolutely no clue of this bigoted anti-Semite joker. Kuala Lumpur has some of the best bar scene and night-life in the entire Islamic world. Sure, Mahathir is going to tell others to follow Islamic ways.
Arjun, misquoting is the least of Masadi’s issues. It’s his bigoted and dogmatic opinions that are laughable. Masadi’s only motivation is hatred of the west as he feels threatened by muslims having a positive opinion of the western values of democracy, freedom of expression and religion among many other (he refers to them as dimwits and idiots). Some joker above was quoting Mahathir (not Mohatir) saying that muslims have forgotten the teachings of Quran, while having absolutely no clue of this bigoted anti-Semite joker. Kuala Lumpur has some of the best bar scene and night-life in the entire Islamic world. Sure, Mahathir is going to tell others to follow Islamic ways.
#335 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 8:54:47 am
#322 by masadi on February 8, 2007 9:50pm PT
For the genius who asked for a link to the Population reference bureau`s World population data sheet, use your favourite search tool and type in ``world population data sheet 2006``,
masadi...either you`re stupid or you think we are...
here...let me quote YOUR post..
According to the US census bureau`s 2006 world population data sheet,
For the genius who asked for a link to the Population reference bureau`s World population data sheet, use your favourite search tool and type in ``world population data sheet 2006``,
masadi...either you`re stupid or you think we are...
here...let me quote YOUR post..
According to the US census bureau`s 2006 world population data sheet,
#334 Posted by arjun2 on February 9, 2007 8:51:28 am
#325 by masadi on February 8, 2007 10:57pm PT
Not really, you are deceptive in the broader sense and in the narrower sense quite idiotic and dishonest.
Dishonest? At least he hasn`t quoted non-existent ``facts`` from the US census bureau...nothing more dishonest than pulling facts out of your rear...
Not really, you are deceptive in the broader sense and in the narrower sense quite idiotic and dishonest.
Dishonest? At least he hasn`t quoted non-existent ``facts`` from the US census bureau...nothing more dishonest than pulling facts out of your rear...
#333 Posted by dost_mittar on February 9, 2007 6:25:56 am
SR#331:
This David Green guy is brilliant!
#332:
Maybe chowk will result in some good after-all. :)
This David Green guy is brilliant!
#332:
Maybe chowk will result in some good after-all. :)
#332 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 3:23:59 am
Re: # 315 bulleye {``...........so, once again, i give you the offer: are you willing to quit your job and join me, and put your money where your mouth is? ...anyone can be a critic... ``}
Forget Hamidm and Urstruly... hypocrites both. I`ll quit my job... but oops.. I don`t have one, so no worries there... Come one let`s go. I`m sick of this dark, foggy island any way. I`ll even go to hell to get some sun. Pack your bags and let`s move to Islamabad. I understand there is a lot of work to be done. Let`s get started. You put the money and I`ll take my mouth with me to put it in. Okay, I`ll put my money too, just to be fair.
There are many areas that need work. We can`t do everything of course. So let`s each do what we can. I`ve been looking at the Public Health sector. There are huge gaps. Even the magnitude of the problems is not fully know. Hepatitis, Dengue, Malaria, tuberculosis, you name it. There is a huge HIV/AIDS epidemic waiting to burst out like a monster from the sea. The available data have HUGE gaps in them and no one knows even the extent of the problem, let alone have any idea of how best to tackle it. I`m willing to give three years of my remaining life to this proposal... challange others, let`s stop farting around and do something. If you`re really serious let`s really do it.
As for the hamidm`s and Urstruly`s, I`ll say this, either shit or get off the pot.
...SR
Forget Hamidm and Urstruly... hypocrites both. I`ll quit my job... but oops.. I don`t have one, so no worries there... Come one let`s go. I`m sick of this dark, foggy island any way. I`ll even go to hell to get some sun. Pack your bags and let`s move to Islamabad. I understand there is a lot of work to be done. Let`s get started. You put the money and I`ll take my mouth with me to put it in. Okay, I`ll put my money too, just to be fair.
There are many areas that need work. We can`t do everything of course. So let`s each do what we can. I`ve been looking at the Public Health sector. There are huge gaps. Even the magnitude of the problems is not fully know. Hepatitis, Dengue, Malaria, tuberculosis, you name it. There is a huge HIV/AIDS epidemic waiting to burst out like a monster from the sea. The available data have HUGE gaps in them and no one knows even the extent of the problem, let alone have any idea of how best to tackle it. I`m willing to give three years of my remaining life to this proposal... challange others, let`s stop farting around and do something. If you`re really serious let`s really do it.
As for the hamidm`s and Urstruly`s, I`ll say this, either shit or get off the pot.
...SR
#331 Posted by SR on February 9, 2007 2:58:56 am
How to tell if your EMPIRE is CRUMBLING?``
My good friend, David Greene, a patriotic American, has come up with some sure-fire indicators which can ascertain that the Empire is crumbling. He says, and I quote:
``You`ve built yourself an empire, eh? ... Well, now you`ve got to do what everybody does when they have an empire, of course. You`ve got to worry about it falling apart, mate!
But how to tell for sure? Let me see if I can be helpful. Here are some rules of thumb to keep in mind, thirty-six sure-fire indicators that your empire is falling apart:
1) You know your empire`s crumbling when the folks who are gearing up their empire to replace yours start blowing up satellites in space. And then they don`t bother to return your phone calls when you ring up to ask why.
2) You know your empire`s crumbling when those same folks are cutting deals left, right and center across Asia, Latin America and Africa, while you, your lousy terms, and your arrogant attitude are no longer welcome.
3) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re spending your grandchildren`s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).
4) You know your empire`s crumbling when it`s considered an achievement to pretend that you`ve halved the rate at which you`re adding to the massive mountain of debt you`ve already accumulated.
5) You know your empire`s crumbling when you weaken your currency until it looks as anemic as a Paris runway model, and you`re still setting record trade deficits. (Hint: Because you`re not making anything anymore.)
6) You know your empire`s crumbling when ``the little brown ones`` (thank you George H.W. Bush - certainly not me - for that lovely expression) in country after country of ``your backyard`` blow you off and proudly elect anti-imperialist leftist governments.
7) You know your empire`s crumbling when you can`t topple those governments and replace them with nice puppet regimes - like in the good old days - even if you wanted to. And you badly want to.
8) You know your empire`s crumbling when one of their leaders comes to the United Nations and makes fun of your emperor, calling him the devil, and joking about smelling sulphur where he just stood. And though a few folks cringe, everybody laughs.
9) You know your empire`s crumbling when just about your entire military land force is tied up in a worse-than-useless war launched on the basis of complete fabrications, that every day is actually making you less - not more - secure from external threat.
10) You know your empire`s crumbling when almost half the soldiers in that war are high-paid mercenaries, and you don`t dare institute a draft.
11) You know your empire`s crumbling when you send soldiers into war with two weeks training and a lack of armor, and then you keep them there for three, four and five rotations.
12) You know your empire`s crumbling when a member of the Axis of Evil can test missiles and explode nuclear warheads, and all you can do about it is mumble some pathetic warnings about how they better not do that again or there will be consequences.
13) You know your empire`s crumbling when you even think that there is an Axis of Evil.
14) You know your empire`s crumbling when a rag-tag military hodge-podge of irregulars has you pinned down in an endless fight you can`t win, but also can`t lose.
15) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re too dumb to even ban Humvees as a first step toward ending your dependency on a foreign-owned crucial resource.
16) You know your empire`s crumbling when you trade your prior moral leadership on human rights issues for global disgust at your torture, `extraordinary rendition` (a.k.a. kidnaping for torture) and the dismantling of nine centuries worth of civil liberties progress.
17) You know your empire`s crumbling when you blow off international law that you once helped create, and undermine the institutions of international governance that you once helped build.
18) You know your empire`s crumbling when opinion polls confirm that every month you`re more and more despised throughout the world.
19) You know your empire`s crumbling when you can`t even pull off the hanging of a tin-pot murderous former dictator without turning him into a hero.
20) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re the richest country in the world, but nearly 50 million of your people don`t have basic health care coverage.
21) You know your empire`s crumbling when the World Health Organization ranks your healthcare system 37th `best` in the world, just above Slovenia, and just below Costa Rica. (And far below Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia and Morocco.)
22) You know your empire`s crumbling when instead of making it easier for citizens to obtain a higher education, you`re making it harder and more expensive.
23) You know your empire`s crumbling when your government gives tax breaks to industries as a reward for exporting your jobs elsewhere.
24) You know your empire`s crumbling when the so-called `opposition` party can`t even turn that obscenity into a viable campaign theme and use it to clobber the worst emperor in your history.
25) You know your empire`s crumbling when your middle class has been stagnant for three decades, while the wealth of the hyper-rich continues to climb through the roof.
26) You know your empire`s crumbling when your reaction to that is to exacerbate the problem by enacting tax policies that massively increase further still the gap between the rich and the rest.
27) You know your empire`s crumbling when the predatory class has taken over your government and is stripping the country of everything not bolted down to the floor. And then it sells the floor itself, as well, to your rivals.
28) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re spending tens of billions of dollars you don`t own on new nuclear warheads and space weapons that don`t work, to be used against an enemy you don`t have.
29) You know your empire`s crumbling when one of your cities drowns and your government does next to nothing before, during and after.
30) You know your empire`s crumbling when a massive environmental nightmare is looming around the corner, and your emperor not only ignores it, but claims it isn`t real while taking steps to exacerbate it.
31) You know your empire`s crumbling when your emperor is warned by a CIA briefer of an imminent terrorist attack of vast proportions, and responds by remaining on vacation and dismissing the briefer with the words: ``All right. You`ve covered your ass, now.``
32) You know your empire`s crumbling when the same emperor drops everything to fly across the country from his vacation home in order to sign a bill intervening on the wrong side of a personal medical drama involving a single family.
33) You know your empire`s crumbling when gays and immigrants are used as diversionary issues to keep people from thinking about the pillaging of their country and their wallets actually taking place. And it works.
34) You know your empire`s crumbling when people are getting more religious and less scientific, not the other way around.
35) You know your empire`s crumbling when your political leaders start to be chosen by dynastic rules of succession.
36) And you especially know your empire`s crumbling when the most idiotic child of one of the least accomplished leaders in its history is not only crowned as the next emperor, but is even revered for a time by most of the public as a great one.
Can you spell ... Caligula? Nero? George III?
Rome? Britain? Spain?
Any gusses, anyone?
My good friend, David Greene, a patriotic American, has come up with some sure-fire indicators which can ascertain that the Empire is crumbling. He says, and I quote:
``You`ve built yourself an empire, eh? ... Well, now you`ve got to do what everybody does when they have an empire, of course. You`ve got to worry about it falling apart, mate!
But how to tell for sure? Let me see if I can be helpful. Here are some rules of thumb to keep in mind, thirty-six sure-fire indicators that your empire is falling apart:
1) You know your empire`s crumbling when the folks who are gearing up their empire to replace yours start blowing up satellites in space. And then they don`t bother to return your phone calls when you ring up to ask why.
2) You know your empire`s crumbling when those same folks are cutting deals left, right and center across Asia, Latin America and Africa, while you, your lousy terms, and your arrogant attitude are no longer welcome.
3) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re spending your grandchildren`s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).
4) You know your empire`s crumbling when it`s considered an achievement to pretend that you`ve halved the rate at which you`re adding to the massive mountain of debt you`ve already accumulated.
5) You know your empire`s crumbling when you weaken your currency until it looks as anemic as a Paris runway model, and you`re still setting record trade deficits. (Hint: Because you`re not making anything anymore.)
6) You know your empire`s crumbling when ``the little brown ones`` (thank you George H.W. Bush - certainly not me - for that lovely expression) in country after country of ``your backyard`` blow you off and proudly elect anti-imperialist leftist governments.
7) You know your empire`s crumbling when you can`t topple those governments and replace them with nice puppet regimes - like in the good old days - even if you wanted to. And you badly want to.
8) You know your empire`s crumbling when one of their leaders comes to the United Nations and makes fun of your emperor, calling him the devil, and joking about smelling sulphur where he just stood. And though a few folks cringe, everybody laughs.
9) You know your empire`s crumbling when just about your entire military land force is tied up in a worse-than-useless war launched on the basis of complete fabrications, that every day is actually making you less - not more - secure from external threat.
10) You know your empire`s crumbling when almost half the soldiers in that war are high-paid mercenaries, and you don`t dare institute a draft.
11) You know your empire`s crumbling when you send soldiers into war with two weeks training and a lack of armor, and then you keep them there for three, four and five rotations.
12) You know your empire`s crumbling when a member of the Axis of Evil can test missiles and explode nuclear warheads, and all you can do about it is mumble some pathetic warnings about how they better not do that again or there will be consequences.
13) You know your empire`s crumbling when you even think that there is an Axis of Evil.
14) You know your empire`s crumbling when a rag-tag military hodge-podge of irregulars has you pinned down in an endless fight you can`t win, but also can`t lose.
15) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re too dumb to even ban Humvees as a first step toward ending your dependency on a foreign-owned crucial resource.
16) You know your empire`s crumbling when you trade your prior moral leadership on human rights issues for global disgust at your torture, `extraordinary rendition` (a.k.a. kidnaping for torture) and the dismantling of nine centuries worth of civil liberties progress.
17) You know your empire`s crumbling when you blow off international law that you once helped create, and undermine the institutions of international governance that you once helped build.
18) You know your empire`s crumbling when opinion polls confirm that every month you`re more and more despised throughout the world.
19) You know your empire`s crumbling when you can`t even pull off the hanging of a tin-pot murderous former dictator without turning him into a hero.
20) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re the richest country in the world, but nearly 50 million of your people don`t have basic health care coverage.
21) You know your empire`s crumbling when the World Health Organization ranks your healthcare system 37th `best` in the world, just above Slovenia, and just below Costa Rica. (And far below Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia and Morocco.)
22) You know your empire`s crumbling when instead of making it easier for citizens to obtain a higher education, you`re making it harder and more expensive.
23) You know your empire`s crumbling when your government gives tax breaks to industries as a reward for exporting your jobs elsewhere.
24) You know your empire`s crumbling when the so-called `opposition` party can`t even turn that obscenity into a viable campaign theme and use it to clobber the worst emperor in your history.
25) You know your empire`s crumbling when your middle class has been stagnant for three decades, while the wealth of the hyper-rich continues to climb through the roof.
26) You know your empire`s crumbling when your reaction to that is to exacerbate the problem by enacting tax policies that massively increase further still the gap between the rich and the rest.
27) You know your empire`s crumbling when the predatory class has taken over your government and is stripping the country of everything not bolted down to the floor. And then it sells the floor itself, as well, to your rivals.
28) You know your empire`s crumbling when you`re spending tens of billions of dollars you don`t own on new nuclear warheads and space weapons that don`t work, to be used against an enemy you don`t have.
29) You know your empire`s crumbling when one of your cities drowns and your government does next to nothing before, during and after.
30) You know your empire`s crumbling when a massive environmental nightmare is looming around the corner, and your emperor not only ignores it, but claims it isn`t real while taking steps to exacerbate it.
31) You know your empire`s crumbling when your emperor is warned by a CIA briefer of an imminent terrorist attack of vast proportions, and responds by remaining on vacation and dismissing the briefer with the words: ``All right. You`ve covered your ass, now.``
32) You know your empire`s crumbling when the same emperor drops everything to fly across the country from his vacation home in order to sign a bill intervening on the wrong side of a personal medical drama involving a single family.
33) You know your empire`s crumbling when gays and immigrants are used as diversionary issues to keep people from thinking about the pillaging of their country and their wallets actually taking place. And it works.
34) You know your empire`s crumbling when people are getting more religious and less scientific, not the other way around.
35) You know your empire`s crumbling when your political leaders start to be chosen by dynastic rules of succession.
36) And you especially know your empire`s crumbling when the most idiotic child of one of the least accomplished leaders in its history is not only crowned as the next emperor, but is even revered for a time by most of the public as a great one.
Can you spell ... Caligula? Nero? George III?
Rome? Britain? Spain?
Any gusses, anyone?
#330 Posted by ballukhan on February 9, 2007 1:16:05 am
Hamid mia ...... the Islamists hate you because the mirror that you hold against them makes them shudder!!!
The Islamist elites are indeed the worst offenders. The mullahs and ayotollahs are indeed the crap of this world. And armchair propagandists like Asadi serve a very important function to keep the Islamists sending their cannon fodder of innocent ummah to kill themselves and keep their message of hate alive.
The Islamist elites are indeed the worst offenders. The mullahs and ayotollahs are indeed the crap of this world. And armchair propagandists like Asadi serve a very important function to keep the Islamists sending their cannon fodder of innocent ummah to kill themselves and keep their message of hate alive.
#329 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2007 12:35:12 am
#309 by hamidm2
Quote:..... you are right .... but what pisses me off is that a lot of pakis, including usually brialliant people like ahmedmadani sahib, are influenced by these ranting fools and raving lunatics ............ and what pees me off even more is tha fact that while we wallow in our misery the horrible hindoos are getting on with the job of living and laughing all the way to the bank ............ Unquote.
Hamidm, what will piss you off even more is that what brialliant people like ahmedmadani sahib is saying as well as what your nemesis masadi saheb is saying is exactly ... ditto ... what Mohatir Mohammed says. And this is someone who`s no Mullah and who turned around his small country of 24 million from a lazy ex-colonial plantations backwater to a technological powerhouse of almost $13000/- per capita GDP in 22 years flat.
That`s more than the hindoos can ever dream of achieving in a 100 years. AND, he did it by confronting USA and Britain`s interference. Not only confronting, but abusing them left right & centre. It is the same Mohatir Muhammad who says that the only reason of decline of Muslims is that they abandoned the teachings of Quran.
That`s what I say and so do masadi and ahmedmadani, as well as some other people.
Now, you say the horrible hindoos are getting on with the job of living and laughing all the way to the bank ... who told you that?
Do you count only the horrible hindoos on Chowk as people ... ??? Do you know the projected 9.2% of growth in hindooland this year consists of just 2.7% of growth in the `primary` sector (i.e. agriculture) on which 2/3rd of its population depends for survival? This will ADD to poverty, not lower it because it doesn`t even cover population growth. For comparison, Pakistan`s growth in this sector has been between 7-9% traditionally over many years (barring crop failures) much surpassing population growth @ 3%. In reduction of poverty alone, Pakistan is doing MUCH better than hindooland.
So while SOME hindoos will laugh all the way to the bank, 2/3rd of them ALL will weep all the way to their `chita`.
In the ultimate analysis of the matter, Hamidm, you just hate Pakistanis, and Arabs, and Islam, and Hindoos, and Mexicans, and Africans, and all other assorted colored folks. You only love the white-skinned goras because they gave you your 3-car garage. Why not honestly admit it and be done with it?
:~)
Quote:..... you are right .... but what pisses me off is that a lot of pakis, including usually brialliant people like ahmedmadani sahib, are influenced by these ranting fools and raving lunatics ............ and what pees me off even more is tha fact that while we wallow in our misery the horrible hindoos are getting on with the job of living and laughing all the way to the bank ............ Unquote.
Hamidm, what will piss you off even more is that what brialliant people like ahmedmadani sahib is saying as well as what your nemesis masadi saheb is saying is exactly ... ditto ... what Mohatir Mohammed says. And this is someone who`s no Mullah and who turned around his small country of 24 million from a lazy ex-colonial plantations backwater to a technological powerhouse of almost $13000/- per capita GDP in 22 years flat.
That`s more than the hindoos can ever dream of achieving in a 100 years. AND, he did it by confronting USA and Britain`s interference. Not only confronting, but abusing them left right & centre. It is the same Mohatir Muhammad who says that the only reason of decline of Muslims is that they abandoned the teachings of Quran.
That`s what I say and so do masadi and ahmedmadani, as well as some other people.
Now, you say the horrible hindoos are getting on with the job of living and laughing all the way to the bank ... who told you that?
Do you count only the horrible hindoos on Chowk as people ... ??? Do you know the projected 9.2% of growth in hindooland this year consists of just 2.7% of growth in the `primary` sector (i.e. agriculture) on which 2/3rd of its population depends for survival? This will ADD to poverty, not lower it because it doesn`t even cover population growth. For comparison, Pakistan`s growth in this sector has been between 7-9% traditionally over many years (barring crop failures) much surpassing population growth @ 3%. In reduction of poverty alone, Pakistan is doing MUCH better than hindooland.
So while SOME hindoos will laugh all the way to the bank, 2/3rd of them ALL will weep all the way to their `chita`.
In the ultimate analysis of the matter, Hamidm, you just hate Pakistanis, and Arabs, and Islam, and Hindoos, and Mexicans, and Africans, and all other assorted colored folks. You only love the white-skinned goras because they gave you your 3-car garage. Why not honestly admit it and be done with it?
:~)
#328 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 8, 2007 11:54:02 pm
Re: # 321
Today I read story from communist india state. They have declared IT as essential services and are providing total protection against strikes. Same way they have offered all concessions to Mr.Tata to build steel factory and noncommunists are opposing it. So how come this situation/ India is strange country and this magic makes tourist come to India is my feeling.
I read your commentary. I understand equity markets is best way to develop capital. It has no preference in sense it rewards the business which is doing better and punishes industries which are not working good or do not produce valuable goods or services. It took me long time almost 6 decades to understand equity markets make allocations of capital according to need and efficiencies . The equity markets are amazing tool for prosperity.
But there is sector which need capital we can not apply criterias applied for business. Like hospitals, elementary schools, transport and subsidies or national airline, cricket team and national steel mill ,are required as welfare, entertainment and working of society. It is possible above can be run by corporations but still subsides are required.
I have problem with Govt subsidising poverty as poverty increases.
Today I read story from communist india state. They have declared IT as essential services and are providing total protection against strikes. Same way they have offered all concessions to Mr.Tata to build steel factory and noncommunists are opposing it. So how come this situation/ India is strange country and this magic makes tourist come to India is my feeling.
I read your commentary. I understand equity markets is best way to develop capital. It has no preference in sense it rewards the business which is doing better and punishes industries which are not working good or do not produce valuable goods or services. It took me long time almost 6 decades to understand equity markets make allocations of capital according to need and efficiencies . The equity markets are amazing tool for prosperity.
But there is sector which need capital we can not apply criterias applied for business. Like hospitals, elementary schools, transport and subsidies or national airline, cricket team and national steel mill ,are required as welfare, entertainment and working of society. It is possible above can be run by corporations but still subsides are required.
I have problem with Govt subsidising poverty as poverty increases.
#327 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 8, 2007 11:22:10 pm
Re: # 317
Thanks MR.HP for supporting my point of view regarding works of M.Asadi.
If I say nobody gives value as I am local person, but your support helps as you have travelled world and have seen people in politics , which is concentrated economics as Mr.Asadi has shown. It is courageuos on you part to support his point of view.
You have good day
Thanks MR.HP for supporting my point of view regarding works of M.Asadi.
If I say nobody gives value as I am local person, but your support helps as you have travelled world and have seen people in politics , which is concentrated economics as Mr.Asadi has shown. It is courageuos on you part to support his point of view.
You have good day
#326 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 8, 2007 11:13:29 pm
Re: # 320
Mr. Mohor11..... Now I am not going to take objection to what you wrote.
The director could have handled situation quite easily saying , we are working on this and Govt of KSA was very horrified and are looking in this matter and matter could have been closed. She did not looked as lady when she tried to justify extreme hatred. She would have been very dignified if she could have said I am just director the policy guide lines are from higher authority and you need to talk to them, we just follow policy. It would have looked quite right also if she would have said I believe in all that stuff. Stupidity and cheating and insincerity is difficult to hide.
I am not religious but agnostic person but do not like show disrespect to any religion as all full strange things. But I like reading things about religion as they have wonderful stories . I do not discuss or comment on religion or religious stuff as in religion heart controls and that symbolism is quite obvious in all religions. When muslim bends his head in worshipping its symbol of not head controlling but heart. When Christian enters church and takes out hat and puts hand on heart , he is signaling I leave my rational mind and heart controls. When hindu bends and makes salute to idol with hands near his heart its signaling of heart over brain. It is good , humanly to to leave these things to faithful and believers. A believer suffers all his life and discussion does not help but he becomes bitter , you can not help him to carry his cross, everybody has to carry his own cross who is religious and he suffers happily. Religion and rationality do not overlap.
As I suggested to Mr. Ranjit you study Pro. Masadi and Mill they you can criticise him if not then should not make many comment.As in real analysis ( algebra) the things are not easy at start and many ideas need time , or in eigen value problems, eigen vectors, idea of tensor are not easy to grasp in few minutes. My experience in higher maths is some times discussion with student you are teaching helps lot. Some times some profound ideas take time to crystalise in your mind. Now M.Asadi ideas are not easy to grasp. It takes time to understand the complex analysis of subjective view of objective world. His ideas are like banana flower, In that flower you take one layer and there still another layer. Same way his ideas have ideas inside and you need to understand those. They are not easy. Some times you have to be investing yourself like you look at diamond. Some times he puts ideas little raw and your mind needs to work on like diamond cutting and polishing to understand ideas. Mr. M.Asadi is left lion of Chowk and he is giving his point of view and should be accorded in that order. He has put his ideas which are combination of idea construction, emotion and spiritual distillation. He has offered to discuss these but do not approach with prejudice but look at as a child with curiosity. Any way these are my suggestion .
You have good day.
Mr. Mohor11..... Now I am not going to take objection to what you wrote.
The director could have handled situation quite easily saying , we are working on this and Govt of KSA was very horrified and are looking in this matter and matter could have been closed. She did not looked as lady when she tried to justify extreme hatred. She would have been very dignified if she could have said I am just director the policy guide lines are from higher authority and you need to talk to them, we just follow policy. It would have looked quite right also if she would have said I believe in all that stuff. Stupidity and cheating and insincerity is difficult to hide.
I am not religious but agnostic person but do not like show disrespect to any religion as all full strange things. But I like reading things about religion as they have wonderful stories . I do not discuss or comment on religion or religious stuff as in religion heart controls and that symbolism is quite obvious in all religions. When muslim bends his head in worshipping its symbol of not head controlling but heart. When Christian enters church and takes out hat and puts hand on heart , he is signaling I leave my rational mind and heart controls. When hindu bends and makes salute to idol with hands near his heart its signaling of heart over brain. It is good , humanly to to leave these things to faithful and believers. A believer suffers all his life and discussion does not help but he becomes bitter , you can not help him to carry his cross, everybody has to carry his own cross who is religious and he suffers happily. Religion and rationality do not overlap.
As I suggested to Mr. Ranjit you study Pro. Masadi and Mill they you can criticise him if not then should not make many comment.As in real analysis ( algebra) the things are not easy at start and many ideas need time , or in eigen value problems, eigen vectors, idea of tensor are not easy to grasp in few minutes. My experience in higher maths is some times discussion with student you are teaching helps lot. Some times some profound ideas take time to crystalise in your mind. Now M.Asadi ideas are not easy to grasp. It takes time to understand the complex analysis of subjective view of objective world. His ideas are like banana flower, In that flower you take one layer and there still another layer. Same way his ideas have ideas inside and you need to understand those. They are not easy. Some times you have to be investing yourself like you look at diamond. Some times he puts ideas little raw and your mind needs to work on like diamond cutting and polishing to understand ideas. Mr. M.Asadi is left lion of Chowk and he is giving his point of view and should be accorded in that order. He has put his ideas which are combination of idea construction, emotion and spiritual distillation. He has offered to discuss these but do not approach with prejudice but look at as a child with curiosity. Any way these are my suggestion .
You have good day.
#325 Posted by masadi on February 8, 2007 10:57:34 pm
hamid writes <<< i am a very simple minded person >>>
Not really, you are deceptive in the broader sense and in the narrower sense quite idiotic and dishonest. You know very well how communities in the same period you mention have been decimated/destroyed due to relocation of manufacturing jobs all over. The numbers and ranks of the poor have been growing still concentrated among race and gender, most have no net worth leave alone a house and the disparity of wealth and income is at an all time high. How does this mesh with your snowmobile wheeling working class? You know the facts and you know the truth, yet all you look at is bs and window dressing. Are you really that dumb or do you think we are dumb or maybe you have a combination of both which might explain why you quote George Bush so much...
Not really, you are deceptive in the broader sense and in the narrower sense quite idiotic and dishonest. You know very well how communities in the same period you mention have been decimated/destroyed due to relocation of manufacturing jobs all over. The numbers and ranks of the poor have been growing still concentrated among race and gender, most have no net worth leave alone a house and the disparity of wealth and income is at an all time high. How does this mesh with your snowmobile wheeling working class? You know the facts and you know the truth, yet all you look at is bs and window dressing. Are you really that dumb or do you think we are dumb or maybe you have a combination of both which might explain why you quote George Bush so much...
#324 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 8, 2007 10:28:30 pm
Re: # 321
Mr. Ranjit ... I was very happy for you explained me about things about IIT ans your other pertinent commentary. It is pleasure to interact with you. I have reverence and respect for people who study and lead good life. I have many questions about IIT but this is not proper place when we are discussing about essay by mr.M.Asadi.
It came to mind ( I am not sindhi) some times decisions made by leaders without great maturity come to haunt the community. GM was at forefront of Pakistan and passed resolution in Sindh legislature for it. When Sindhis departed from Pakistan Sindhi as a community was decapicatedn as mosteducated elites left for India.. Majority left sindhis were quite unsofesticated to withstand onslaught of Urdus and they were displaced and regression set in which is still continueing. GM regreted decision throughout life and repented. Sindhis have no value and all major cities have collapsed. Sindhis have become basically disadvantaged slight minority inhabiting rural part which is stark poor as other than indus it is a desert. This has poisoned relationship with Punjabis and as a reflex action they blame punjabis. Once I went to Thatta and was watching a poor Sindhi fisherman working on net. He said to me you Punjabis have made us poor and misery and he blamed all on Punjabis. He said you have taken our jobs. Then I asked him what you do, he said he catches fish. I never caught fish neither my father or forefathers I work in hotel management. I said when you can do my job I will depart. Over years I always felt very sad I answered that way as he was helpless man crying and insulted him. I feel still very sad about. I have great respect for Sindhi people for they are more cultured and do not use abuses as part of language like Punjabis and good natured people. In given pathetic conditions they love their land and language, they are still trying to stick to that. Some times you come visit fellow Sindhis they will feel better and feel inspiration to see Sindhi man doing so well in such tough and difficult place like. (intel vice CFO is sindhi person).
Have good day.
Mr. Ranjit ... I was very happy for you explained me about things about IIT ans your other pertinent commentary. It is pleasure to interact with you. I have reverence and respect for people who study and lead good life. I have many questions about IIT but this is not proper place when we are discussing about essay by mr.M.Asadi.
It came to mind ( I am not sindhi) some times decisions made by leaders without great maturity come to haunt the community. GM was at forefront of Pakistan and passed resolution in Sindh legislature for it. When Sindhis departed from Pakistan Sindhi as a community was decapicatedn as mosteducated elites left for India.. Majority left sindhis were quite unsofesticated to withstand onslaught of Urdus and they were displaced and regression set in which is still continueing. GM regreted decision throughout life and repented. Sindhis have no value and all major cities have collapsed. Sindhis have become basically disadvantaged slight minority inhabiting rural part which is stark poor as other than indus it is a desert. This has poisoned relationship with Punjabis and as a reflex action they blame punjabis. Once I went to Thatta and was watching a poor Sindhi fisherman working on net. He said to me you Punjabis have made us poor and misery and he blamed all on Punjabis. He said you have taken our jobs. Then I asked him what you do, he said he catches fish. I never caught fish neither my father or forefathers I work in hotel management. I said when you can do my job I will depart. Over years I always felt very sad I answered that way as he was helpless man crying and insulted him. I feel still very sad about. I have great respect for Sindhi people for they are more cultured and do not use abuses as part of language like Punjabis and good natured people. In given pathetic conditions they love their land and language, they are still trying to stick to that. Some times you come visit fellow Sindhis they will feel better and feel inspiration to see Sindhi man doing so well in such tough and difficult place like. (intel vice CFO is sindhi person).
Have good day.
#323 Posted by masadi on February 8, 2007 10:04:37 pm
HP mian thanks for the support, these damn fools (the likes of Hamid) are moved more by hatred of freedom, freedom to think and construct ones own society. They want to blindly follow the world generated in the most part by the Corporate Garrison State (aka USA) and its elite, which will ensure their enslavement and the misery of the vast majority of humankind. Their dimwitted, and cheap tactics for discrediting any and every research that goes against the main drift is labelling in the McCarthy fashion. Their buzz words are mullah, jihad and so forth.
They know that the mullah is more accomodative of them and their imperialistic friends than they are of me and ideas like mine. The mullah has constructed his entire religion and worldview in the image presented to him by the western elite. Even in worshipping God in the perverted way that he does, the mullah is not free, he is the slave of the West. Busy with defining his religion over issues of ``morality`` and specifically sexual morality, he has borrowed this outlook completely alien to Islam from the dark ages of Christianity, upon whose caricature the Western elite have molded their images of Islam. The mullah has further confused the ``means`` used by this elite, i.e. reducing everything to the least common denominator, for control, the so-called hedonism, as if they were ends by themselves of western society. Thereby he misses the big picture that goes much beyond his narrow view and provides misguided fodder for a `cat and mouse` game in which the immorality of both sides, the Western elite and the mullah are second to none....
They know that the mullah is more accomodative of them and their imperialistic friends than they are of me and ideas like mine. The mullah has constructed his entire religion and worldview in the image presented to him by the western elite. Even in worshipping God in the perverted way that he does, the mullah is not free, he is the slave of the West. Busy with defining his religion over issues of ``morality`` and specifically sexual morality, he has borrowed this outlook completely alien to Islam from the dark ages of Christianity, upon whose caricature the Western elite have molded their images of Islam. The mullah has further confused the ``means`` used by this elite, i.e. reducing everything to the least common denominator, for control, the so-called hedonism, as if they were ends by themselves of western society. Thereby he misses the big picture that goes much beyond his narrow view and provides misguided fodder for a `cat and mouse` game in which the immorality of both sides, the Western elite and the mullah are second to none....
#322 Posted by masadi on February 8, 2007 9:50:19 pm
For the genius who asked for a link to the Population reference bureau`s World population data sheet, use your favourite search tool and type in ``world population data sheet 2006``,
and when you get the pdf file check the number of people in India that live on less than $2 a day
and when you get the pdf file check the number of people in India that live on less than $2 a day
#321 Posted by Ranjit on February 8, 2007 7:23:46 pm
Masadi,
Check this link out -
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Govt_revives_selloff_Left_cries_foul_again/articleshow/1581099.cms
Look at how the Indian government timidly tries to divest its holdings in huge, money wasting, inefficient public sector companies, but our leftist/socialist elites reflexively oppose any structural economic reforms. In this case it is the Rural Electirification Corporation and the National Hydroelectric Power Corporation. There have been many such examples before. It is likely that these are typical sarkari public sector organizations which are highly overstaffed, probably produce marginal output, enjoy monopolistic status with life long job security for the employees. The people in the villages and towns do not get the electricity and stay in dark, thus choking actual economic progress or improvement in standard of living, while the leftists savor their ideological victory.
The government of Manmohan Singh wants to sell a minority stake in such companies and raise funds for rural development, while pressuring these organizations to be accountable and perform. So it is a double whammy as we are stuck with inefficient companies and there is no rural development either.
This is what I mean when I say that our local elites are our worst enemies. Their own narrow interest runs orthogonal to the national interest or they are just plain incompetent. Is the US forcing India`s elites to behave in this stupid manner? Nope. We behave like idiots and then wonder why the country is still poor and undeveloped.
Check this link out -
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Govt_revives_selloff_Left_cries_foul_again/articleshow/1581099.cms
Look at how the Indian government timidly tries to divest its holdings in huge, money wasting, inefficient public sector companies, but our leftist/socialist elites reflexively oppose any structural economic reforms. In this case it is the Rural Electirification Corporation and the National Hydroelectric Power Corporation. There have been many such examples before. It is likely that these are typical sarkari public sector organizations which are highly overstaffed, probably produce marginal output, enjoy monopolistic status with life long job security for the employees. The people in the villages and towns do not get the electricity and stay in dark, thus choking actual economic progress or improvement in standard of living, while the leftists savor their ideological victory.
The government of Manmohan Singh wants to sell a minority stake in such companies and raise funds for rural development, while pressuring these organizations to be accountable and perform. So it is a double whammy as we are stuck with inefficient companies and there is no rural development either.
This is what I mean when I say that our local elites are our worst enemies. Their own narrow interest runs orthogonal to the national interest or they are just plain incompetent. Is the US forcing India`s elites to behave in this stupid manner? Nope. We behave like idiots and then wonder why the country is still poor and undeveloped.
#320 Posted by mohar11 on February 8, 2007 4:44:48 pm
Mad-ani
That lady deserved the spanking she got on live television... if the educated people like her [ and you ] are not going to stand up and denounce the big0try that`s being practiced openly in name of religion, then who will?... she should have come clean - denounced the text books and resigned from her position right away...
But instead she hemmed and hawed, offered stupid excuses and made a complete fool of herself in full public view. It was clear that she believes in the fascism printed in those books...[ most muslims do] ... that`s why she didn`t denounce it...
that`s why you too are offering excuses - because deep down, you believe in the 7th century garbage that you guys have been re-gurgitating with your a$$es in the air and your heads in the sand, five times a day, each day for last 1400 years...
:)
That lady deserved the spanking she got on live television... if the educated people like her [ and you ] are not going to stand up and denounce the big0try that`s being practiced openly in name of religion, then who will?... she should have come clean - denounced the text books and resigned from her position right away...
But instead she hemmed and hawed, offered stupid excuses and made a complete fool of herself in full public view. It was clear that she believes in the fascism printed in those books...[ most muslims do] ... that`s why she didn`t denounce it...
that`s why you too are offering excuses - because deep down, you believe in the 7th century garbage that you guys have been re-gurgitating with your a$$es in the air and your heads in the sand, five times a day, each day for last 1400 years...
:)
#319 Posted by mohar11 on February 8, 2007 4:28:52 pm
Re: # 317 Islamabad Bob
[...Given my political contacts then and now, I feel I could have possibly made a small, a tiny difference...]
But instead, you turned yourself into the ranting and raving Islamabad Bob... what a waste :)
[...Given my political contacts then and now, I feel I could have possibly made a small, a tiny difference...]
But instead, you turned yourself into the ranting and raving Islamabad Bob... what a waste :)
#318 Posted by iron_mask on February 8, 2007 3:28:23 pm
Re: # 317 just as I thought all hope was lost, along comes HP and I thought now all is really lost.....but....
For once HP sauce makes some sense and talk some sense....thank you for your gracious condescension.
Masadi is a guy who is starting at -40 years...and will take a long time to do what you suggest....just a personal opinion....
For once HP sauce makes some sense and talk some sense....thank you for your gracious condescension.
Masadi is a guy who is starting at -40 years...and will take a long time to do what you suggest....just a personal opinion....
#317 Posted by HP on February 8, 2007 12:04:43 pm
Hamid-
Generally, I agree with Hamidm and understand where he is coming from. We need to confront the mullah and his sponsored backwardness at every step of the way and embrace modern thoughts and sciences right away. If we see someone attempting to resurrect the 7th century system or even the thoughts, and attempting to place that as Pakistan’s national policy, we need to counter that immediately. Obviously, we can’t do it in Pakistan and due to our own peculiar circumstances, we cannot influence pak intellectual scene in a big way. However, knowing what we know, and given our situation, if we can just communicate our opposition to mullah and mullahism on this forum or any other forum, we should do that. I see that Hamid in his intellectually honest way confronts every thing where he smells badboo of mullah and his ideology.
However, I think he is makes a mistake about Masadi. Asadi is a social scientist and is influenced by religion in his personal life. There is nothing wrong in being a follower of a religion. It is a personal matter. We need to see what he is advocating. He is not promoting mullahism. At this stage in his intellectual pursuit and inquiry, he sees the problems and in his own way identifies the source of the problem. He may or may not be right on all counts but at least he has the intellectual honesty to express what he thinks is wrong and we should respect that. At some point in time, he will also figure out what is right and what is the right mix for resolving problems.
Asadi is amitabh of the old days, an angry young man who would grow in stature as he continues to study human nature and several solutions for the miseries that are out there.
In fact, I wish I was Asadi type angry when I was younger. Given my political contacts then and now, I feel I could have possibly made a small, a tiny difference. That was not to be and here we are regretting what we missed. I hope asadi makes an impact and he will if he continues to show the emotions and the anger that he shows now. Good luck to him…I hope hamid too would respect him for that.
Generally, I agree with Hamidm and understand where he is coming from. We need to confront the mullah and his sponsored backwardness at every step of the way and embrace modern thoughts and sciences right away. If we see someone attempting to resurrect the 7th century system or even the thoughts, and attempting to place that as Pakistan’s national policy, we need to counter that immediately. Obviously, we can’t do it in Pakistan and due to our own peculiar circumstances, we cannot influence pak intellectual scene in a big way. However, knowing what we know, and given our situation, if we can just communicate our opposition to mullah and mullahism on this forum or any other forum, we should do that. I see that Hamid in his intellectually honest way confronts every thing where he smells badboo of mullah and his ideology.
However, I think he is makes a mistake about Masadi. Asadi is a social scientist and is influenced by religion in his personal life. There is nothing wrong in being a follower of a religion. It is a personal matter. We need to see what he is advocating. He is not promoting mullahism. At this stage in his intellectual pursuit and inquiry, he sees the problems and in his own way identifies the source of the problem. He may or may not be right on all counts but at least he has the intellectual honesty to express what he thinks is wrong and we should respect that. At some point in time, he will also figure out what is right and what is the right mix for resolving problems.
Asadi is amitabh of the old days, an angry young man who would grow in stature as he continues to study human nature and several solutions for the miseries that are out there.
In fact, I wish I was Asadi type angry when I was younger. Given my political contacts then and now, I feel I could have possibly made a small, a tiny difference. That was not to be and here we are regretting what we missed. I hope asadi makes an impact and he will if he continues to show the emotions and the anger that he shows now. Good luck to him…I hope hamid too would respect him for that.
#316 Posted by arjun2 on February 8, 2007 11:51:14 am
#315 by bulleya on February 8, 2007 11:12am PT
more explosions take place in india than in pakistan
And yet the US doesn`t have a travel advisory against travel to India, like it does for Pakiland
And yet MNCs by the truckload are flocking to India..
And yet India isn`t a no-family posting, like Pakiland is...
captain clueless...you`ve mistaking your own self-serving logic and self-delusion with reality...again...
more explosions take place in india than in pakistan
And yet the US doesn`t have a travel advisory against travel to India, like it does for Pakiland
And yet MNCs by the truckload are flocking to India..
And yet India isn`t a no-family posting, like Pakiland is...
captain clueless...you`ve mistaking your own self-serving logic and self-delusion with reality...again...
#315 Posted by bulleya on February 8, 2007 11:12:04 am
hamidm2 mian#314: ``........... and really, pakistan doesn`t need to do anything extraordinary - they simply need to stop blowing things up and everything will be just fine ........... and there is nothing you or i can do to stop that - it is all up to the likes of masadi ...........``
....actually, this is not true......people are blowing up stuff all over the place.......more explosions take place in india than in pakistan......in fact, more happens in kashmir and the northeast of india than in all of pakistan........
......if the usa wasn`t an ocean away and did not have a strong police force, it would break the record of explosions......far more people are pissed off at the usa than at any country.....
.......so there will always be people wanting to blow things up, everywhere........the difference is that in most countries there are economic outlets for individuals, as well as economic stability in the govt. to counter these things......this is what pakistan lacks...
...and who creates these economic outlets......people who are empowered and who have benefited from the system (like you, i an urstruly).......if such people, after benefitting from the system take off to dearborn michigan, that, i suppose is ok.......but once they reach there, then they lose the right to complain about lahore, unless they, themselves are willing to do something about it.........
........so, once again, i give you the offer: are you willing to quit your job and join me, and put your money where your mouth is? ............anyone can be a critic..........
....actually, this is not true......people are blowing up stuff all over the place.......more explosions take place in india than in pakistan......in fact, more happens in kashmir and the northeast of india than in all of pakistan........
......if the usa wasn`t an ocean away and did not have a strong police force, it would break the record of explosions......far more people are pissed off at the usa than at any country.....
.......so there will always be people wanting to blow things up, everywhere........the difference is that in most countries there are economic outlets for individuals, as well as economic stability in the govt. to counter these things......this is what pakistan lacks...
...and who creates these economic outlets......people who are empowered and who have benefited from the system (like you, i an urstruly).......if such people, after benefitting from the system take off to dearborn michigan, that, i suppose is ok.......but once they reach there, then they lose the right to complain about lahore, unless they, themselves are willing to do something about it.........
........so, once again, i give you the offer: are you willing to quit your job and join me, and put your money where your mouth is? ............anyone can be a critic..........
#314 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2007 10:52:34 am
Re: # 311
romair mian,
..... ``just out of curiousity, exactly what have you done to improve anything in pakistan``.............. to be truthful - nothing, except buying a winter retirement home in islamabad and not adding to the trash on the streets when i am there ........ and the only other thing i intend to do is get a membership at the islamabad club - the only reason i haven`t done it yet is because i am afraid that it will be converted to a training camp for jihaids by duffers like masadi .........
........... and really, pakistan doesn`t need to do anything extraordinary - they simply need to stop blowing things up and everything will be just fine ........... and there is nothing you or i can do to stop that - it is all up to the likes of masadi ...........
...... if it makes you feel any better, there are plenty of folks, much much smarter and capable than you and i, who are doing wonderful stuff in pakistan ......but most of them have one leg either in dubai, or in toronto, because of the suiciders and homiciders who suffer form the masadi complex ...........
p.s. ... and how do you know urstruly is not doing anything ?....... he is picking up where sayyid qutub and masadi left off
romair mian,
..... ``just out of curiousity, exactly what have you done to improve anything in pakistan``.............. to be truthful - nothing, except buying a winter retirement home in islamabad and not adding to the trash on the streets when i am there ........ and the only other thing i intend to do is get a membership at the islamabad club - the only reason i haven`t done it yet is because i am afraid that it will be converted to a training camp for jihaids by duffers like masadi .........
........... and really, pakistan doesn`t need to do anything extraordinary - they simply need to stop blowing things up and everything will be just fine ........... and there is nothing you or i can do to stop that - it is all up to the likes of masadi ...........
...... if it makes you feel any better, there are plenty of folks, much much smarter and capable than you and i, who are doing wonderful stuff in pakistan ......but most of them have one leg either in dubai, or in toronto, because of the suiciders and homiciders who suffer form the masadi complex ...........
p.s. ... and how do you know urstruly is not doing anything ?....... he is picking up where sayyid qutub and masadi left off
#313 Posted by GT on February 8, 2007 10:43:19 am
Re: # 309 by hamidm2
Hamid,
You have indeed seen great things and more power to you and your gardener. Masadi has seen mostly bad things and more power to him too. Good or bad, the fact remains that the nexus between corporations and politicians exists ..... to a larger extent in some parts of the world and to a lesser extent in others.
Hamid,
You have indeed seen great things and more power to you and your gardener. Masadi has seen mostly bad things and more power to him too. Good or bad, the fact remains that the nexus between corporations and politicians exists ..... to a larger extent in some parts of the world and to a lesser extent in others.
#312 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2007 10:34:43 am
Re: # 310
GT,
i am a very simple minded person - instead of reading commentaries by tweedy professors and social(ist) `scientists`, i just look around .......... and what do i see?
....... when i arrived in this country the average middle class folks lived in a 16-1800 square foot house and i don`t remember seeing a three car garage .......... thirty years later a 3000 sq ft house with a three car garage is the norm ........... macomb county in michighan is still inhabited by uaw workers huge houses, cabins `up-north`, a boat or two and at least one snow-mobile .......... they still get health insurance, overtime, dental care and make 60-100K a year for working an average of 37 seconds out of a minute putting on tires on moving car - in between they have time to read the newspaper ........... of course some of these people are loosing their jobs to their brethern working for the japanese transplants in the south who work harder and earn their money (which is just as good, if not better).............
...... and of course, there is my lawn/snow/sprinkler guy from domeli, district jhelum, rawalpindi division, who has a kid at harvard business school and another at u of m law school ............. (sorry, but my kids are tired of hearing about him too !)
GT,
i am a very simple minded person - instead of reading commentaries by tweedy professors and social(ist) `scientists`, i just look around .......... and what do i see?
....... when i arrived in this country the average middle class folks lived in a 16-1800 square foot house and i don`t remember seeing a three car garage .......... thirty years later a 3000 sq ft house with a three car garage is the norm ........... macomb county in michighan is still inhabited by uaw workers huge houses, cabins `up-north`, a boat or two and at least one snow-mobile .......... they still get health insurance, overtime, dental care and make 60-100K a year for working an average of 37 seconds out of a minute putting on tires on moving car - in between they have time to read the newspaper ........... of course some of these people are loosing their jobs to their brethern working for the japanese transplants in the south who work harder and earn their money (which is just as good, if not better).............
...... and of course, there is my lawn/snow/sprinkler guy from domeli, district jhelum, rawalpindi division, who has a kid at harvard business school and another at u of m law school ............. (sorry, but my kids are tired of hearing about him too !)
#311 Posted by bulleya on February 8, 2007 10:28:04 am
hamidm2 mian:.....one keeps seeing comments from your side, regarding pakistan - where it should be and what it is and isn`t doing........just out of curiousity, exactly what have you done to improve anything in pakistan......(sending a few dollars a year to a charity doesn`t count)........
....if you haven`t done anything and aren`t even willing to live there, then don`t you lose the right to criticize the people who actually are living in pakistan, and trying to do something.....whether they are doing what you want or don`t want, at least they are taking the trouble to live in the place......
so instead of asking others in pakistan to do something, which will end up on goldman sach`s list(s), why don`t you go to pakistan and set up that something which will end up on such lists?
......i have always felt that the biggest problem pakistan has is that there are too many talkers and not enough doers......you and urstruly may have completely opposite ideologies, but deep down inside you are the same.........you both talk the talk, but never walk the walk..........both criticizing those in pakistan who are doing things with which you disagree, but never doing anything yourself to solve the problem.......
and before you (or either of you) say it is not possible, i would like you to let you know that there are people who have made such efforts......i went back for six months, looking for funding for company which i wanted to set up.......nobody was willing to fund it.......if all goes well, i will be back again in a few months, this time in a partnership with a multinational software company to do some projects there.......
infact, i am willing to give both urstruly and you the offer to work on these projects with me.......the two of you can quite your jobs and join me.......so how about putting your money where your mouth is?
....if you haven`t done anything and aren`t even willing to live there, then don`t you lose the right to criticize the people who actually are living in pakistan, and trying to do something.....whether they are doing what you want or don`t want, at least they are taking the trouble to live in the place......
so instead of asking others in pakistan to do something, which will end up on goldman sach`s list(s), why don`t you go to pakistan and set up that something which will end up on such lists?
......i have always felt that the biggest problem pakistan has is that there are too many talkers and not enough doers......you and urstruly may have completely opposite ideologies, but deep down inside you are the same.........you both talk the talk, but never walk the walk..........both criticizing those in pakistan who are doing things with which you disagree, but never doing anything yourself to solve the problem.......
and before you (or either of you) say it is not possible, i would like you to let you know that there are people who have made such efforts......i went back for six months, looking for funding for company which i wanted to set up.......nobody was willing to fund it.......if all goes well, i will be back again in a few months, this time in a partnership with a multinational software company to do some projects there.......
infact, i am willing to give both urstruly and you the offer to work on these projects with me.......the two of you can quite your jobs and join me.......so how about putting your money where your mouth is?
#310 Posted by GT on February 8, 2007 10:00:21 am
Re: # 309 by hamidm2
Hamid,
People can get their way through and to an extent they have done so over time. But you cannot totally ignore the nexus between huge corporations and governments. Furthermore, this nexus does not always produce results which are good for the unwashed masses. In fact almost always it is the other way round. Adam Smith wrote about it in 1776 .... Rajan and Zingales wrote about it in 2004 (?) ..... Paul Baran wrote about it somewhere in between. Competition coupled with democracy have a natural tendency to check the efficacy of these networks .... I am not convinced of other processes (Paul Baran is, he advocates socialism). So, ceteris paribus, systems which induce more competition and democracy should perhaps see lesser ills from such networks. So do disagee with masadi for all you want, but do not throw away the baby with the bathwater.
And on a sidenote, I am very happy that Goldman Sach`s is high on India. I hope it pleases my mother. She lives on a pension, refuses money from me and my sister, is unable to fix water seepage in many parts of her house, is fed up of rising food prices, cannot afford to buy books anylonger, cannot borrow books from the local library as the library is closed, worries a lot about the rising price of medicines etc. etc. ..... Heck I should simply send Goldman Sach`s report to the stupid old lady.
Hamid,
People can get their way through and to an extent they have done so over time. But you cannot totally ignore the nexus between huge corporations and governments. Furthermore, this nexus does not always produce results which are good for the unwashed masses. In fact almost always it is the other way round. Adam Smith wrote about it in 1776 .... Rajan and Zingales wrote about it in 2004 (?) ..... Paul Baran wrote about it somewhere in between. Competition coupled with democracy have a natural tendency to check the efficacy of these networks .... I am not convinced of other processes (Paul Baran is, he advocates socialism). So, ceteris paribus, systems which induce more competition and democracy should perhaps see lesser ills from such networks. So do disagee with masadi for all you want, but do not throw away the baby with the bathwater.
And on a sidenote, I am very happy that Goldman Sach`s is high on India. I hope it pleases my mother. She lives on a pension, refuses money from me and my sister, is unable to fix water seepage in many parts of her house, is fed up of rising food prices, cannot afford to buy books anylonger, cannot borrow books from the local library as the library is closed, worries a lot about the rising price of medicines etc. etc. ..... Heck I should simply send Goldman Sach`s report to the stupid old lady.
#309 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2007 8:52:18 am
Re: # 308
kulharee,
..... you are right .... but what pisses me off is that a lot of pakis, including usually brialliant people like ahmedmadani sahib, are influenced by these ranting fools and raving lunatics ............ and what pees me off even more is tha fact that while we wallow in our misery the horrible hindoos are getting on with the job of living and laughing all the way to the bank ............
..............an indian collegue just dropped of Goldman Sachs` january 22nd ``global economics paper #152`` on my desk which is very bullish on india ...... on the other hand, goldman sachs employees are forbidden from even travelling to pakistan where you can get blown up by masadi`s ideological brothers and sisters........ these people should be exterminated without prejudice ..........
kulharee,
..... you are right .... but what pisses me off is that a lot of pakis, including usually brialliant people like ahmedmadani sahib, are influenced by these ranting fools and raving lunatics ............ and what pees me off even more is tha fact that while we wallow in our misery the horrible hindoos are getting on with the job of living and laughing all the way to the bank ............
..............an indian collegue just dropped of Goldman Sachs` january 22nd ``global economics paper #152`` on my desk which is very bullish on india ...... on the other hand, goldman sachs employees are forbidden from even travelling to pakistan where you can get blown up by masadi`s ideological brothers and sisters........ these people should be exterminated without prejudice ..........
#308 Posted by Kulharee on February 8, 2007 7:46:09 am
Re: # 307
Hamid Sahib. Masadi Sahib is a pseudo-academic motivated by hatred of the west without a leg to stand on. This is fairly common in people with mediocre education and low self-esteem.
Hamid Sahib. Masadi Sahib is a pseudo-academic motivated by hatred of the west without a leg to stand on. This is fairly common in people with mediocre education and low self-esteem.
#307 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2007 7:23:14 am
masadi mian,
.......... i don`t have the time to respond to your impotent rage since i am busy propping up the system that gives you so much heartburn, but everything i have to say has been said by bernard lewis ........ he has rigthly pointed out that folks like you are inspired by sayyid qutub who in his two years in america could not get laid and therefore developed this insane jealousy and mad hatred for this great country ............ george bush has said it even better : ``they hate us for freedom, for our way of life, our beautiful women, our lone star beer and our twenty four ounce porterhouse steaks`` ............. even ahmedmadani knows it - he is just playing you for the fool that you are ...........
p.s. you should read bernard lewis - a man who knows what he is talking about - instead of wasting your time on some outdated commie named mills
#306 Posted by Ranjit on February 8, 2007 7:07:57 am
Re:ahmedmadani#287
[..You have some point. Are you management grad from IIT or Tech grad. ? Tech or management is considered of higher status?
You can write about IIT college. Do your white people work under you new about IIT ?
Please answer correctly or do not. I am curious about IIT college why its so valued. They say all (95%) IIT elites of India just use IIT as stepping step to exit India. Is that % correct....]
Madaniji, I did my B.Tech in Mechanical Engineering from IIT Delhi and came to the US in the eighties. Over here I did my M.S and Ph.D in Industrial Engineering and joined the IT division of a company after graduation. People in the company had started to hear about IITs at that time (early nineties). Even then, everyone respected that background quite a bit. Starting as an analyst, I moved up the ranks quite quickly and a few years later got promoted to a manager position. I had Americans working for me along with Indians, Chinese and Pakistanis. Afterwards, my boss, an American, switched to another company as a Chief Information Officer. A couple of years later, he recruited me to work for him in the new company at a sr. director level and lead an entire department with people belonging to all kinds of ethnic/racial/national backgrounds.
In the new company, IIT is very well known. In fact, my boss was recently recruiting a VP level position. Among all the resumes that came in, he found someone who was also from IIT Delhi. He immediately forwarded that resume to HR to bring that person in and we ended up hiring him. The fact that the person had worked in IBM for 20 years hardly registered with him, but the IIT brand caught his attention.
In general a MBA degree in India is more powerful that a Tech degree. Its probably true in the US as well, although Tech degree people are doing great too. It just depends from person to person. About the 95% number exiting India is concerned, that was in the past. Nowdays, only 15-20% IITians are exiting India since the Indian job market is so good. In fact a lot of people are returning to India to make their careers there.
[..You have some point. Are you management grad from IIT or Tech grad. ? Tech or management is considered of higher status?
You can write about IIT college. Do your white people work under you new about IIT ?
Please answer correctly or do not. I am curious about IIT college why its so valued. They say all (95%) IIT elites of India just use IIT as stepping step to exit India. Is that % correct....]
Madaniji, I did my B.Tech in Mechanical Engineering from IIT Delhi and came to the US in the eighties. Over here I did my M.S and Ph.D in Industrial Engineering and joined the IT division of a company after graduation. People in the company had started to hear about IITs at that time (early nineties). Even then, everyone respected that background quite a bit. Starting as an analyst, I moved up the ranks quite quickly and a few years later got promoted to a manager position. I had Americans working for me along with Indians, Chinese and Pakistanis. Afterwards, my boss, an American, switched to another company as a Chief Information Officer. A couple of years later, he recruited me to work for him in the new company at a sr. director level and lead an entire department with people belonging to all kinds of ethnic/racial/national backgrounds.
In the new company, IIT is very well known. In fact, my boss was recently recruiting a VP level position. Among all the resumes that came in, he found someone who was also from IIT Delhi. He immediately forwarded that resume to HR to bring that person in and we ended up hiring him. The fact that the person had worked in IBM for 20 years hardly registered with him, but the IIT brand caught his attention.
In general a MBA degree in India is more powerful that a Tech degree. Its probably true in the US as well, although Tech degree people are doing great too. It just depends from person to person. About the 95% number exiting India is concerned, that was in the past. Nowdays, only 15-20% IITians are exiting India since the Indian job market is so good. In fact a lot of people are returning to India to make their careers there.
#305 Posted by arjun2 on February 8, 2007 5:39:16 am
#290 by masadi on February 7, 2007 9:30pm PT
Stumped by well established facts, the idiot is reduced to attacking the source which happens to be American. If you are smart enough to check the sources used by the Population Reference Bureau to come up with the data sheet on world population, listed at the back,
since YOU made the claim that the US census bureau is collecting data on poverty in Pakiland and India, it`s incumbent upon YOU to produce a link or something to back up your claim..
remember..other people can get away with passing off BS as facts but a accomplished researcher like you is held to a higher standard...
Stumped by well established facts, the idiot is reduced to attacking the source which happens to be American. If you are smart enough to check the sources used by the Population Reference Bureau to come up with the data sheet on world population, listed at the back,
since YOU made the claim that the US census bureau is collecting data on poverty in Pakiland and India, it`s incumbent upon YOU to produce a link or something to back up your claim..
remember..other people can get away with passing off BS as facts but a accomplished researcher like you is held to a higher standard...
#304 Posted by masadi on February 8, 2007 3:51:30 am
zeemax mian, I have answered your question about Qutb on the other thread, sorry missed it as the peons of the West, whose tails are on fire, had me busy here...
#303 Posted by masadi on February 8, 2007 2:35:25 am
#299 your comments about IMF/WB are true but these institutions are dominated by the Western financial institutions, and therefore the US power elite and their colonial partners
#302 Posted by sri on February 8, 2007 12:14:11 am
#283 by philosopher
``The future belongs to Islam``
Each and every one of the Hindus understands the insidious nature of muslims who are blinded by the hatred spewed from that BullSht of a book from 7th century.
That`s why Hindus have aligned with BNP in UK and I feel where ever hindus are in sizeable chunk they will form alliances with groups who are against muslim immigration to western countries.
I have lived major portion of my childhood and youth in the old city areas of Hyderabad. Living so close to Muslim ghettos, I had witnessed ``muslim hospitality`` up close and personal during those countless number of communal riots. With the mental and physical scars as my witness, I can clearly see how lives can become hell in any community, city or country where Muslims become a sizeable population. Indeed many indians feel so too....
``The future belongs to Islam``
Each and every one of the Hindus understands the insidious nature of muslims who are blinded by the hatred spewed from that BullSht of a book from 7th century.
That`s why Hindus have aligned with BNP in UK and I feel where ever hindus are in sizeable chunk they will form alliances with groups who are against muslim immigration to western countries.
I have lived major portion of my childhood and youth in the old city areas of Hyderabad. Living so close to Muslim ghettos, I had witnessed ``muslim hospitality`` up close and personal during those countless number of communal riots. With the mental and physical scars as my witness, I can clearly see how lives can become hell in any community, city or country where Muslims become a sizeable population. Indeed many indians feel so too....
#301 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 7, 2007 11:54:58 pm
Re: # 298
Appreciate your encouragement, some times I get depressed by bad writing by some people but now I feel better somebody appreciates who is not slave of elite mentality. Kindly comment about my remark about World Bank and IMF, all big banks (MNC) city bank, Bank of england do same.
Thanks have good day Mr.M.Asadi.
Appreciate your encouragement, some times I get depressed by bad writing by some people but now I feel better somebody appreciates who is not slave of elite mentality. Kindly comment about my remark about World Bank and IMF, all big banks (MNC) city bank, Bank of england do same.
Thanks have good day Mr.M.Asadi.
#300 Posted by zeemax on February 7, 2007 11:52:51 pm
#278 by SR Re: # 273 masadi {``...Somebody else`s take on Huntington...``} He is not alone by any means. There is a fervent ongoing blog campaign amongst combative conservative circles. Following is an apt example... What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad.
Very interesting. However, these fervent blog campaigners should be asked as to which Book of Jihad was Elizabeth I using who invented `Privateering` as an officially sanctioned form of Piracy. Barbary States were doing exactly as the English, Dutch, French, Spanish and the Americans had been doing since upto 200 years earlier.
Some interesting excerpts from Wiki:
History of Privateering
England, and later the United Kingdom, used privateers to great effect and suffered much from other nations` privateering.
In the late 16th century, British ships cruised in the Caribbean and off the Spanish coast, trying to intercept Spanish treasure fleets bringing gold and silver from Mexico. This early privateering was justified by an attack by Spanish ships on Sir Francis Drake and Sir John Hawkins, who were trying to sell West African slaves to Spanish colonies, which the Spanish considered illegal.
At this early stage the idea of a regular navy (as distinct from a private ship) was not present, so there is little to distinguish this activity from regular naval warfare. The privateering certainly had the support of Elizabeth I, who on occasion lent ships to or bought shares in expeditions. Attacking Spanish ships was part of a policy of aggressive competition with Spain, and helped provoke the first Anglo-Spanish War. Capturing a Spanish treasure ship would enrich the Crown as well as striking a practical blow against Spanish domination of America and a spiritual blow against Catholicisim.
The Anglo-Dutch Wars
In the first Anglo-Dutch War, English privateers attacked the trade on which the United Provinces entirely depended, capturing over 1,000 Dutch merchant ships - more than twice the size of the English merchant fleet at the start of the war! During the subsequent [[Anglo-Spanish War (1654)|war with Spain), Spanish privateers, including many based in Dunkirk, reversed the favour and captured 1,500 English merchants, restoring Dutch international trade. British trade, whether coastal, Atlantic or Mediterranean, was also attacked by Dutch privateers in the Second and Third Anglo-Dutch wars.
The Eighteenth Century
During the Nine Years War, the French adopted a policy of strongly encouraging privateers, including the famous Jean Bart, to attack English and Dutch shipping. England lost roughly 4,000 merchant ships during the war. In the following War of Spanish Succession, privateer attacks continued, Britain losing 3,250 merchantmen and with Dunkirk privateers alone seizing 959 prizes.
Famous British Privateers
Probably the most famous British Privateer was Sir Francis Drake, particularly so in that he had such close contact with the sovereign. He was responsible for much damage to Spanish shipping, as well as attacks on Spanish settlements in the Americas in the 16th century. He also was instrumental in turning back the Spanish Armada from its attack on England.
Sir Henry Morgan was one of the most famous of all Privateers. Operating out of Jamaica, he carried on an audacious war against Spanish interests in the region, often using cunning tactics. His operation was prone to excessive cruelty of those he captured, including torture to gain information about booty, and in one case using priests as human shields. Despite reproaches for some of his excesses, he was generally protected by Sir Thomas Modyford, the governor of Jamaica. He is probably most famous for the enormous amount of booty he took, as well as landing his privateers ashore and attacking land fortifications, including the sack of the city of Panama with only 1,400 crew.
The USA
The United States Constitution authorized the U.S. Congress to grant letters of marque and reprisal; the Confederate Constitution likewise authorized the Confederate Congress. Robert Morris, the first American milliona
Very interesting. However, these fervent blog campaigners should be asked as to which Book of Jihad was Elizabeth I using who invented `Privateering` as an officially sanctioned form of Piracy. Barbary States were doing exactly as the English, Dutch, French, Spanish and the Americans had been doing since upto 200 years earlier.
Some interesting excerpts from Wiki:
History of Privateering
England, and later the United Kingdom, used privateers to great effect and suffered much from other nations` privateering.
In the late 16th century, British ships cruised in the Caribbean and off the Spanish coast, trying to intercept Spanish treasure fleets bringing gold and silver from Mexico. This early privateering was justified by an attack by Spanish ships on Sir Francis Drake and Sir John Hawkins, who were trying to sell West African slaves to Spanish colonies, which the Spanish considered illegal.
At this early stage the idea of a regular navy (as distinct from a private ship) was not present, so there is little to distinguish this activity from regular naval warfare. The privateering certainly had the support of Elizabeth I, who on occasion lent ships to or bought shares in expeditions. Attacking Spanish ships was part of a policy of aggressive competition with Spain, and helped provoke the first Anglo-Spanish War. Capturing a Spanish treasure ship would enrich the Crown as well as striking a practical blow against Spanish domination of America and a spiritual blow against Catholicisim.
The Anglo-Dutch Wars
In the first Anglo-Dutch War, English privateers attacked the trade on which the United Provinces entirely depended, capturing over 1,000 Dutch merchant ships - more than twice the size of the English merchant fleet at the start of the war! During the subsequent [[Anglo-Spanish War (1654)|war with Spain), Spanish privateers, including many based in Dunkirk, reversed the favour and captured 1,500 English merchants, restoring Dutch international trade. British trade, whether coastal, Atlantic or Mediterranean, was also attacked by Dutch privateers in the Second and Third Anglo-Dutch wars.
The Eighteenth Century
During the Nine Years War, the French adopted a policy of strongly encouraging privateers, including the famous Jean Bart, to attack English and Dutch shipping. England lost roughly 4,000 merchant ships during the war. In the following War of Spanish Succession, privateer attacks continued, Britain losing 3,250 merchantmen and with Dunkirk privateers alone seizing 959 prizes.
Famous British Privateers
Probably the most famous British Privateer was Sir Francis Drake, particularly so in that he had such close contact with the sovereign. He was responsible for much damage to Spanish shipping, as well as attacks on Spanish settlements in the Americas in the 16th century. He also was instrumental in turning back the Spanish Armada from its attack on England.
Sir Henry Morgan was one of the most famous of all Privateers. Operating out of Jamaica, he carried on an audacious war against Spanish interests in the region, often using cunning tactics. His operation was prone to excessive cruelty of those he captured, including torture to gain information about booty, and in one case using priests as human shields. Despite reproaches for some of his excesses, he was generally protected by Sir Thomas Modyford, the governor of Jamaica. He is probably most famous for the enormous amount of booty he took, as well as landing his privateers ashore and attacking land fortifications, including the sack of the city of Panama with only 1,400 crew.
The USA
The United States Constitution authorized the U.S. Congress to grant letters of marque and reprisal; the Confederate Constitution likewise authorized the Confederate Congress. Robert Morris, the first American milliona