Roadblocks to Moderation

Salam! My name is S.Adeel Haider..I m tayaba`s friend..she sent me the link or your article to read..i just went through it..nice work yaar...to be honest i felt like i am letting out my inner steam about the current affairs of this country..well written samreen!..Thanks and keep it up...

Re: # 14, teshah saheb,

Aadab,

Please excuse me to have used slightly arrogant language in my last post. I joined Chowk very recently and didn`t know you properly. Now that I have read many of your interacts, i-logs and other posts I feel honoured to have been chosen by you as a `good company`.

So, if I have hurt you in any way, kindly forgive me for two reasons. One, because I am a passionate and straight forward man and sometimes get carried away easily. And second, because my English is poor and lacks balance.

Hope you are well.

Regards,

Samar

Re: # 13, teshah saheb,

Aadab,

I`m happy that you are back. Hope you have completely recovered now. Please take enough water, fruits and vegetables.

Actually, when ladies start doing something different the men get disturbed. They don`t realize that ladies may not find much time now to carry out routine chores. Slight adjustment on their part can make the things right. No mother can neglect her children and the coming generations i.e. the children, will be used to the new situation even more easily because they don`t have the opportunity to compare.

As for the notion of `Mard being Muhaafiz of Aurat` I don`t at all agree to this. There must be many quotes in Quran which say Allah is the only Muhaafiz. Knowledge is a great equalizer and in this century even ladies can teach a lesson or two to the the Mards and even can be their Muhaafiz.

Samar

Re: # 11 & #12

samar1982

Adab

Thank you dear for caring about my well-being. I have actually been down with a serious attack of gastroenteritis or food poisoning causing fits of vomiting and loose motions resulting in extreme dehydration. But thank God, my daughter-in-law who is a doctor came to my rescue. She administered drip after drip all night and saved me from hospitalization which I hate very much. In fact it was the first time I came to appreciate the plus point of her professional acquirement, otherwise I had always been complaining about dereliction on her part of house-keeping, especially looking after her children.

I may tell you that I belonged to a very conservative Syd family whose women though highly respected lived in utter bondage like dumb cattle. It was I whose efforts broke that bondage and liberated them to go to colleges and universities though I had to face a lot of condemnation by my senior family members. But I believe we aught to keep in mind that as the Quran observed ``Aurat ka muhaafiz mard he`` (The guard of the woman is the man).

regards

Teshah Saheb,

Aadab,

What happened, sir? Are you OK? Now should I ask if I have hurt you?

I, too, was busy with my bank closing but was expecting you here.

Regards.

Samar

Re: # 10, teshah Saheb,

Aadab

Annoyed!? Why should I? I told you I am a MALE and I am proud of having a tinge of womanhood. This is a fact and I affirm it again in case you have somehow taken my last post sarcastic. It appears that Paki males treat such comments very offensive.

Though the condition of women has somewhat improved it can not be said to be satisfactory. In India this improvement has touched only to the upper strata of society. Even there thousands of cases of violence against women are pending in courts. What to say of day to day, routine discrimination

Yes, men are taking up the cause of women more seriously because they have understood that without emancipation of women society can not make economic progress. In my colony (in Bhopal, not a large city) at least 70 to 80 percent families have working women. At least in India it is heartening to note that girls are doing much better than the boys in all types of competitive examinations. Paki girls should be doing likewise, don`t they?

I feel very nice to see all this but could smell some apprehension on your part. If so, why?

Samar

Re: # 9
samar1982

Adab,

Sorry to annoy you. I want to know your gender only because the Hudood Laws under discussion being basically a gender issue one needs to know which side of the sex-divide one`s interactor is on as, unlike women, it is the male gender who are more vehement in supporting the female cause these days, paradoxically, when the women are generally in a better position than they were a view decades ago.

As re my antecedents, I am also a born Indian but of that part of India which later came to be known as West Pakistan, and still later as Pakistan.

regards

Re: # 8, teshah saheb,

Aadab,

I am pleased to hear from you so soon and request you not to bother much about your comment on my gender. I am a man and take pride in being endowed with some `niswaniat` too. Yes, it is true that I am a real softy if the matter relates to a fair sex. I can`t put up with slightest discrimination against women, hence my interest in Paki Hudood laws. It is not that here in India (yes, I am an Indian) women are living in some kind of woman`s paradise but at least the law does not approve of the injustice against them.

I too found your comments on various boards quite interesting and would like to interact with you. You already know me. So, kindly tell me something about you.

Samar

Re: # 7

Dear Samar

Thank you for your courteous response. I have little doubt that you may be an agnostic but what is intriguing about you, excuse me, is your gender. Your name (or just an ID) is gender-neutral but your write up smacks of `niswaniat`.

Again, you say in your Ilog that you are an Indian but your keen interest in Paky affairs, especially the Hudood laws, hints otherwise.

Any how, I find you a good company and would like to be introduced to you, if you don`t mind.

Re: # 6, teshah saheb,

Aadab,

That is a slip of tongue, may be, fingertips. In fact, through Koran I wanted to convey my massage (?), i.e. If at all you must believe in God, Allah, Parmeshwar or something beyond your five senses than eliminate others/everything between you and him/it who/which knows everything/nothing and is great, all powerful, beneficent (?) and just (?). Because I believe that beyond five senses it is impossible to know for any human being, be it the greatest of paigambers.

As for me, I am a firm agnostic. You know that, don`t you, sir?

I can say a Shair too :

Meer ke deen o mazhab ko ab poochhte kya ho, unne to
Qushka khaincha, dair men baitha, kabka tarq islam kiya

If Meer is a Muslim, I am too. Otherwise I don`t bother. In fact I don`t know much about any religion, prophets and all and am not worried about that.

Samar

Re: # 5

Samar

``Our beloved messenger``! Which messenger, your beloved one, do you mean? The messenger of God or your personal one? That, in fact, is the root cause of the trouble. The moment we start personalising a messenger and his God and call him the best one as it belongs to us, the bigotry and fanaticism begins as depicted in this qawaali:

``Shahe Madinah, Yasrab ke waali
Saare Nabi tere dar te sawaali``

This one way traffic has also been stopped by the mullah now who have themselves occupied the high pedestal as self-styled demi-gods, like Ehbar of the Jews.

As regards the man he too have his messengers to God like Ghalib, the sage-poet, who had said:

``Kia woh Namrood ki khudaai thi
Bandgi mein mera bhala nah hua``

and:

``Ibne Maryam hooa kare koi
Mere dukh ki dawa kare koi``

``Call upon Allah or call upon the Beneficent God; whichever you call upon He has the best names`` 17/110

He is the best, no other! Our beloved messenger heard His voice and narrated it to others but they could not understand him. They started interpreting it and their attention diverted. this went on and on and brought us down to where we are now. So, eliminate others in between and believe in Him, who knows everything and is great, all powerful, beneficent and just.

Samar

Samreen

``The average Pakistani should also not lag behind in this regard. They should go against the mainstream and refrain from giving a free license to the mullahs to go ahead with anything and everything under the garb of Islam.``

Your call is very timely but I am sorry to say that it is a call in the wilderness. The `mainstream` (or, what means perhaps the same, average) Pakistani is a Muslim not by his volition but by submission to `Taghooti` Mullah. A Paky Muslm`s claim to Islamic faith shall not be accepted officially unless and until he submits a `Half Naama` declaring some fellow citizens of his as non-Muslims and even abuse their leader about whom they might not have even heard before. This variety of the Muslims which may be called `Halfi Muslims` is of all the world found in Pakistan only. Not only this they have even been led to believe that their god, called `Khuda`, is also un-Islamic, having been banned from mentioning in the official media. As it is, the situation is not only absurd but hopeless also. Only a fouji committed like Kamal Ataturk can liberate the people from the clutches of `deen-e-mullah`. Whatever hope we had from Musharraf had been dashed to the ground the day he surrendered to the `Zinaana Brigade` of the Taliban of Madrissah Hufzah in the very capital city of Islamabad, despite his `rut` for `writ`.

Charismatic

In one sense you do not face any special challenges. Religious extremists do exist in all societies. They also share much with their counterparts in other societies.

Alternatively, you could see if societies marginalize religious extremists differently, and meet with different degrees of success. That approach will shift focus from assigning superhuman abilities to some personally unfavored people (bad ``Mullahs,` or say `Brahmins` - in the case of us Indians) to understanding initial social conditions and uncovering social processes operating upon those conditions. It might afford a more polychromatic, more accurate view of the putative `roadblocks to moderation.`

(if it is any help, for instance, in dealing with the challenge of casteism in India, we found that beating up on Brahmins only goes so far. Beyond a point it deteriorates into mundane politicking among the privileged few more than serious attempt at social reform among the masses).

Best wishes.

Good Post.

``The only conclusion I could draw was that our ‘mullahs’ or ‘religious elite’ have hijacked Islam for their own petty and materialistic gains``

Yes, we know what the problem is, but how can it be solved?
You cannot expect the `mullahs` to give up their power without a fight. As long as there are enough people who will not challenge their ramblings, they will continue.

``Our president Pervez Musharraf, the champion of democracy and the liberal values, He needs to take practical steps like repealing the cursed ordinance altogether``

Musharraf cannot hope to fight and win, without the full and `active` support of the `majority` of `enlightened` public. He is already a marked man. Why should he fight a `two pronged` fight?. First he has to fight the `mullahs` and then he has to fight the majority of the people.

If I was in his shoes, I would not do anything against the mullahs. Build a massive `palace` for myself and my top generals. Then I would have 20,000 guards surrounding it and the Pakistani Airforce flying overhead... then do whatever I wanted to do, behind locked doors. Just like everyone else.

Oh? He`s already doing that? Good.

Leaders do not create the followers. Followers create the leaders. You get what you deserve!

``The average Pakistani should go against the mainstream and refrain from giving a free license to the mullahs to go ahead with anything and everything under the garb of Islam``

Going against the meanstream could get you into trouble. The average Pakistani already has enough troubles on his plate. But I do agree that it has to start with them.

Any ideas on a working plan and how to kickstart it? If we want change, don`t leave it for others to fight our battles.

Since long, I haven`t seen someone ponder upon a matter like this and I greatly appreciate that. It`s hundred percent true that our religious *mullahs* who`re actually supposed to be the *logical thinking ones* are nothing but religious extremists who do nothing except coerce our society to cling onto the past and not move into the future. Fundamental believes obviously remain the same but some of the derivations always have room for change according to the society we`re living in. But our *respected* mullahs do not regard this as something worth considering. They`ve delved themselves deep into the annals of islamic history instead of pondering upon the present islamic generation. I really hope people like us can bring some change to this style of thinking, though there is little chance of things changing since very few people realize their flaws nowadays. Specially our beloved *mullahs*...