Psychology of Guerrilla War

#59 by ranjit on February 11, 2007 11:06pm PT

There are two standards..

When the practioners of the religion of peace kill a whole bunch of non-muslims, that`s a historic battle..part of a glorious past to be commemorated.
When non-muslims whack a bunch of muslims, that`s a historic wrong that needs to be righted...

when muslims occupy non-muslim lands, that land becomes muslim forever and the occupation needs to be celebrated as part of a glorious past..
when non-muslims occupy muslim lands, that`s a historic wrong that justifies terrorism...

Re:zeemax#49

[..There is no previous example where a handful of warriors waylaid and drained a hugely powerful adversary of its resources, bided their time, then forced them to come and fight on inhospitable turf, and destroyed them. ...]

Zeemax, I have always wondered why most muslims want to insist, until they go red in the face, that their relgion is a religion of peace. Since the 7th century AD, Islam is one long saga of warfare all across Arabia, Persia, Byzantium, North Africa, Europe, Central Asia and India. Whether it is guerilla warfare or regular warfare or looting/plundering of temples or beheading people, its a continuous string of violence that goes on till this day.

As you have admitted in your posting, right from the beginning, the violence was aggressive in nature in terms of conquering non-muslims and converting them to Islam. Why dont the other muslims just accept reality and admit that Islam is a religion of war and aggression? Why this charade about peace and spirituality, when it is all about conquest and domination? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

#56 by Tehsinabbasi on February 11, 2007 10:26pm PT

It`s not a conflict because the frenchies who wanted to split had a fair shot and they were in a minority. In the case of Israel and palestine, the majority of Israelis and the majority of palis want exact opposite things. If you asked a majority of Israelis to vote on whether they want to give the palis everything the palis want, a majority of israelis would say no...likewise the palis...

you need to make an apples to apples comparison here...

#53 by hamidm2

You`re calling these girls Prophet`s concubines?

I guess nothing further remains to be said or heard.

Stay well.

#55 by arjun2

Not true - there was no referendum in Czechoslovakia. Had it gone to a referendum there werent enough votes for it to pass. The leaders just decided to make the split. I am curious to know what you have to say about Canada.

#54 by Tehsinabbasi on February 11, 2007 8:31pm PT

The Czechoslovakia example doesn`t apply...there was no conflict there..the issue was resolved through a referendum..the majority of the people wanted the split and so it happened..

a conflict is when both sides want the same thing..like Pakistan wants Indian Kashmir and India won`t give it away..or the palis want the right of return but the Israelis don`t want to give it to them...

#44 by arjun2

``Can you think of a conflict that has been resolved by talks without 1) large amount of bloodshed 2) one side gaining an advantage over another?

I can`t... ``

I thought I started out with 2 such examples that of Czechoslovakia and Canada in my post #8.

the prophet`s example - buyer beware !

LAHORE: Barbers in Bajaur Agency have decided not to shave men’s beards following threats by unidentified men, the BBC Urdu service reported on Sunday. In an emergency meeting summoned at Inayat Kallay, five kilometres from Bajaur Agency’s main town Khar, local barbers decided that they would stop shaving men.

............and the example of the prophet`s concubines

ISLAMABAD: Over 700 policewomen from Punjab have been summoned to the capital as the district administration prepares contingency plans for an operation to end seminary students’ occupation of a children’s public library. Female students of Jamia Hafsa occupied the library over three weeks ago to protest at the demolition of Amir Hamza Masjid.

#51 by SR

Yes .. Yes .. so Suetonius killed 80,000 Britons (icluding women, children and animals as per the link you provided), but it does not detract from my statement that mine is bigger than yours ... !

:~)

Re: # 49 zeemax {``... I have no point ... I have already made my point ...``}

Okay, okay... alright... so yours is BIGGER than mine ... I give up.

So, let`s see, what else? Ah... what`s the difference between a golfer and a skydiver?


``?``


The golfer goes... Wham...! ``Oooooh shit..``

The skydiver goes... ``Oooooh shit..`` Wham...!

Cheers,

...SR

...... contd .. #49 by zeemax

.....and you`re seeing this happening right now in Iraq ....

:~)

#47 by SR

I have no point Sir. I have already made my point which you have been unable to rebutt.

There is no previous example where a handful of warriors waylaid and drained a hugely powerful adversary of its resources, bided their time, then forced them to come and fight on inhospitable turf, and destroyed them.

Thanks.

:~)

moulana zee,

i have every reason to call your response:

``charon shaanay chitt``

plz correct me if you feel otherwise.

Re: # 34 zeemax {``...I checked on the battle you quoted. It appears that the 70-80,000 Brits who died did not die in battle, but were mostly civilians who were massacred by Boudica`s rebels when Suetonius abandoned three cities including Londinium (now London) while retreating to fight elsewhere....``}

In the 1700s a sea captain was confronted by a church parish of over a hundred who quoted from (their version of) the Bible and insisted that the Earth was flat. The sea captain insisted that it was round. He didn`t quote any sources. His only arguement was that he`d sailed around it himself.

I took my son to the (what is beleived to be) battle site of the Battle of Watling Street along what is now the A5 in Warwickshire. The Brits have re-discovered native pride in the person of Queen Bodica (this is the new, politically correct, spelling of her name), and therefore much historical research has been done and many memorials are seen all over the place.

The 70 to 80,000 dead civilians you correctly mention are not the ones I was talking about. Bodica`s followers were about a quarter million but the actual warrier are said to be only 140,000. The rest were followers. The destroyed what is now Colchester (where I attended summer school at the University of Essex in 1977) which was the Roman capital of Brition at the time. And yes, they destroyed all Roman villas and farms and even the small trading town, which is now London, but at the time was only a settlement 20 year old. Then they destroyed St. Albans. Suetonius was in North Wales at the time and he hurriedly assembled all the forces that were left in Britain and chose his battleground in what is now West Midlands (a 90 minute drive from the village where I am living now). Then he waited for the rebel army to arrive. It was those 80,000 dead rebel warriors I had referred to, not the 70-80K civilians killed earlier.

But really what is your point. You are getting carried off on a tangent here. I was merely pointing out to you, by giving Suetonius` example, that numerically far smaller armies have destroyed great enemies and that is not unique to Badr. I could just as easily cited examples of Giaus Marius against the Germanic tribes or of Lucius Cornellius Sulla against Archelaus of Pontus during the Mithridatic Wars... There are many, many such examples in ancient times, Alexander the Mediocre, for instance, would never have become The Great, had his small army not defeated the mighty Persian army of King Darius the incompetent who had no business losing that battle. Similarly Robert Clive had less than 3,000 men under his command at Plassi when Nawab Siraj-ud-Daula lost his nerve and lost with 25,000 men under his direct command (forget the additional 30,000 under his uncle, Mir Jaffar, who ``trecherously`` failed to come to his nephew Siraj-ud-Daula`s aid).

The only thing Badr proves is that Muhammad was a superior calibre commander than Abu Jehl. But then this numerical asymetry of forces at Badr wasn`t even your main point. You were claiming that the preceding desert raids were the very first GWs of history. That they clearly were not.

...SR

``my problem is that we hold them as up as paragons of virtue even today when most of us do not share a tent with a camel ..........``

Because without Mohammad`s great example, Islam is like the black cube in Mecca signifying Nothing, a kind of abyss. And we all know how great and respectful that pervert`s (pbuh) deeds were.

#41 by hamidm2

Mr Hamidm2,

You said ... :

...my problem is that we hold them as up as paragons of virtue even today...

Wonderful. Do you know why Jews are in Jerusalem today? Why they`re killing and being killed to remain there? Why`re they digging underneath Al-Aqsa to find that temple?

Because forget the 7th century where according to you we want to go back ... The Jews want to go back to 0.7th century (i.e. 70 AD) as a paragon of virtue .... haha .. your ideals.

What say you now?

:~)