My People!

#40 by Tehsinabbasi on February 10, 2007 8:23pm PT
#34 by Zeena

Does a common American think in general terms rather then individual terms? ]]]

Tehsinabbasi sahib

There is one rule of thumb for the progress of any community, nation and country. Generalization Vs Individualization.

Both are important for the strength of any given nation. Generalization leads us to think for the whole community as one unit , selflessly to achieve one goal only.

Individualization in positive way is also significant for adding more power to achieve the destiny for the progress of any given country.
Individualization in it`s real sense leads a person to recognize his/her uniqueness in terms of self interests for acquiring their goals to be recognized as a productive individual.
Real choices in lifestyle decision result from person-centred planning.

And, individualization in negative way leads an individual towards extremely selfish ways, where he/she will only think , me, me, me...............and in this me, me, me, process they ultimately take part in any country`s regression leading to recession and finally downtrodening.........................

In America, what I have observed there is more generalization and positive individualization which has led the country to the most developed country of the world and where each and every citizen has equal respect regardless of their status.

There are set rules, laws are followed in generalized terms, absolutely not on individual terms.

In Pakistan my observation is every set of class has different laws to follow. Rules are different for different classes. In America there is no such thing as classes.

Nobody gives a fig to any class, everyone feels proud and take pride in whatever he/she is..........

In Pakistan people have negative individualization and least generalization.........................in terms of country`s progress......I hope it helps.

Re: # 26

So if you take a piece of original tbhought, and express it in more grammatical fashion, that idea becomes yours? Is that your understanding of intellectual property?

#43 by bulleya
So what you are saying is that the huddled masses which are 99 percent of the population, should decide on the best course for change, because they know where their welfare lies. You also mention that they are illiterate, rural, without electricity, totally cut off from the national economy, but you still insist that they should be in charge and chart the course for change in Pakistan.

This is like suggesting that the patient should be in charge of his own recovery. Don’t you think that a doctor who is experienced in treating disease who has the most knowledge of diagnosing the problem and prescribing the solution, is better suited then the patient himself struggling to find his own cure?

tehsinabbassi#42: ......i think for us to decide what kind of revolution should take place is, in and of itself, an elitist idea......whatever the huddled masses decide is what should happen..........if they want a clergy led revolution, then that is what it should be......if they want socialism, then that is what it should be......

huddled masses of pakistan - illiterate, rural, with no access to electricity, sanitation facilities, running water, hounded by people like us (or at least by our friends and relatives), totally cut-off from the national economy - are the overwhelming majority of pakistan......

......considering the fact that less than 1% of pakistan has access to the internet and less than 1% can write decent english, makes all of us on chowk the super elite.....1% should never decide what the remaining 99% wants or who should lead the revolution of the remaining 99%...........

my point isn`t that there should be a revolution........my point is that us elites, trying to blame each other, without blaming ourselves collectively is the problem.......it is the whole group of us, who are connected to each other, who for some strange reason still consider ourselves, ``middle class,`` when in fact we are in the less than 1% of pakistan that is the problem.......doesn`t matter if we are in the army, navy, civil services, business, ngos, education, or in the peace corps.........

the day all of us lose our influence and privelages and the day the huddled masses get as much influence as all of us is the day things will improve.......doesn`t mean there has to be a revolution........as i said, i don`t know what it will take for the above to happen........but until the above happens, things won`t improve.........and if the above happens, then our privelages and living standards will go down, while those of the huddled masses will go up.....

#38 by bulleya

Let me go over your post para by para.

Please I am not suggesting anything, but Hadrat Umar Farooq would definitely qualify as such ‘a lone honest benevolent dictator’.

A revolution of the huddled masses would you call it as a peasant, labor revolution – in other words a socialist revolution. Sorry to give it established names but that is the closest I can approximate it to be. Wouldn’t this be a dictatorship of the proletariat? Somebody or some group will be in charge, this group would take on power in the name of the peasants and laborers. How are we certain this elite would remain uncorrupt, especially their progeny as it happened in all socialist countries, and wouldn’t we agree that as a system socialism has been thoroughly discredited and has been reduced to nothing more then the annals of history.

A revolution led by the clergy? Well, we just saw this happen in Afghanistan with the Taliban, but beyond burqa, beards, cutting hands off, ban on music and other bans galore, they didn’t have anything else in their play book. No economic stimulation, no welfare or betterment of the masses, absolutely nothing but a barren land – there solution to everything is prayer and hope for pennies from heaven (oil fields). Can we or should we learn from their experience, or are we obligated to go through the same mistakes that our neighbors made.

We all agree that if the system corrects itself we would all gain from it in the long run. So back to square one - what can and should be done?

#36 by abu_safwaan

``lets not experiment with real democracy just because it might turn out to be as corrupt and as dictatorial as Army``

I think trying experiments willy nilly for the past 57 years hasn’t taken us any where. Don’t you think it is high time that we deliberate carefully and study all the pros and cons before embarking willy nilly towards another distant mirage?

#34 by Zeena

Does a common American think in general terms rather then individual terms?

#38 bulleya shaib

I appreciate your post as much as anyone can.

[[to give you one example.........no common man or woman in pakistan can even interact on this site and read this article, which is written for the common man, because it is written in a foreign language - english - and is being debated by a group of elites who have acccess to this elitist foreign language in a poor country of punjabi, sindhi, urdu etc. speakers..........how ironic!]]

Well said!! But, the problem is elites don`t come to this site either. Majority of chowkies are from common average middle class fsmilies including me. And , at least I am proud that I atleast take part in doing some progress in Pakistan in practical sense by visiting remote areas, giving those less privileged people my time and pure love and by listening to their problems.

Well, at the same time my friends in Pakistan make fun of my humanity and feelings for those less fortunates and discourage me for my work by labelling me as some sort of crazy.

I wish all of us who are writting here on chowk and taking part in these useless fights should get up and think what eachone of us can do to help eradicate poverty in Pakistan.

Sadly on chowk each one of us just abuse eachother, indians abuse pakis and vice versa.

And then Pakis abuse eachother. Men abuse women and don`t let them discuss any issues without being personal.

bulleya sahib

I do agree with your sincere posts............yes, we have to live like common masses to feel the pain and agony what they are going through.

tehsinabbasi#33........as i said i don`t know what the answer is........though i do have ideas......what i do know is what isn`t the answer......and one group of elites blaming the other and vice-versa, certainly, isn`t the answer........

.......the solution you are suggesting: the lone honest benevolent rich dictator, who comes to the rescue of the huddled masses, is a very rare phenomenon........not something one can rely one.......pakistan was able to get one in jinnah.........most countries only get one.....

........the rest has to be done by the huddled masses and by tiny day to day individual efforts of others - primarily the middle class.......the elites (of which we on chowk are a part) will always, openly or behind closed doors, intentionally or unintentionally, consciously or subconsciously oppose a revolution by the huddled masses.........as it will turn the elite into a common person......and most people on chowk have no idea how the common person in pakistan lives.......regardless of how much they (we) attempt to speak up for this common person, i doubt too many of us would want to be reduced to this common person`s lifestyle.......

........for example, it is quite possible that such a revolution in pakistan may be led by the clergy.......what happens then.....will that improve our lives, i.e chowk crowd lives.......will we still have our mtv.......it certainly wouldn`t improve my life........

.......but what if it improves the lives of the huddled masses.......what if they already have beards and don`t mind wearing a burqa and don`t have mtv and are thus not affected by mtv bans...........what if such a revolution gives them access to powerful circles for the first time.........

would all of us elite support it?.......i highly doubt it......

.........what if a people`s revolution of farmers and labourers occurs and the first laws they make state that there will be no private schools or colleges.......no aitichisons or lums.......and no one is allowed to spend the country`s foreign exchange by sending their kids abroad.......every pakistani will get the common man`s education - urdu medium - and will have to attend the exact same schools and colleges as the common man......

english will be removed from pakistan as the common man cannot speak it and, hence, cannot pass interviews in multinationals......like korea, china, japan, germany, france etc. everything will be in the local dialect (urdu or punjabi, sindhi etc.).....

.......there will only be a people`s army and everyone, rich or poor, will have to spend three years as a sepoy........every doctor and engineer will have to spend ten years of his/her life in the remote rural areas.........no new construction will occur in karachi, lahore and islamabad, until infrastructure is improved in remote baluchistan, sind, and central punjab.......i.e. the rich will have to pitch their time into the development of pakistan and not only the poor will do so........

will anyone on chowk agree to that?.........

as i said, we are the beneficieries of a corrupt system.........if the system ever corrects itself, pakistan will gain in the long run, however, we will lose out the first-world living standards that we enjoy.........

to give you one example.........no common man or woman in pakistan can even interact on this site and read this article, which is written for the common man, because it is written in a foreign language - english - and is being debated by a group of elites who have acccess to this elitist foreign language in a poor country of punjabi, sindhi, urdu etc. speakers..........how ironic!

#35 abu_safwaan

LOL.....hahahahah

You are acting like a two years old toddler. Your posts remind me of that. And of course an ugly two year old toddler picking his nose and stinking.................lol......

Your posts stink........can`t control my laugter.................

Grow up, kiddooooo.

Now, let`s discuss the topic @ hand........So, you think army should invade Pakis always....WoW!!!

Quite impressive, ideology, hain jiii.

Re: # 33

Brigadier Sahab you are absolutely dead on. No reason to try anything new, no need to replace the army thugs with another group, let status-quo rule the day, cause that`ll be inconveneant to you and ur family. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds, to make a case that well lets not experiment with real democracy just because it might turn out to be as corrupt and as dictatorial as Army. My my what wisdom and waht an smashing logic.

Re: # 28
Zeena bibi,

Marz doorkarnayy kayy liyayy zaroorii hayy kayy uskii tashqees hojayeyy. Masla aapkayy urduu mediumm honayy sayy qatayii nahii hayy, masla darsall aapkayy jahill honnay sayy hayy orr uss parr aapka yeahh israrr hayy kayy aapkoo sunna bhii jayeyy. Bibi jahill honna bazat-e-khud koii jurmm nahii hayy magarr jabb jahill ashqas apnayy aapkoo aql-e-kul samjhnayy lagein too kuchh jhnunjlahatt honnaa barhaq hayy.

Muhturma farmatii hein ``I beg your pardon. I am not the part of that corrupt system. I live in USA. I only visit Pakistaan for helping poor masses with the core of my heart`. Iss daffah aykk meharbanii kijyayy gaa kayy jinn paysoon sayy ``Poor`` kii madad karna maqsood thaa unn paysoon sayy aykk kitaab qareed lijayayy gaa..kyonkayy aapkoo shauq intahayii hayy harr mauzoo parr guftugoo farmanayy kaa..or aapkoo aata jata kuchh hayy nahii, too kitaabb parhein thorii mehnatt karkayy ilmm hasill kareinn phirr aakarr apnii qabliyatt jhariyayy gaa.

Khudara apnayy monhh miyan mithoo naa bana karein..``I help the poor` ``I am sooo honest`` i am soo charitable``, please give us a break, noone asked you for ur resume, and quite frankly it smells very insecurish

tehsinabbasi sahib

Who will break the cycle? Common Pakistanis will break it down. Only when common Pakistani start thinking in general terms and stop thinking in individual terms.

Why a common American gets much more rights and lmost equal and fair treatment? Why Pakistanis are hijacked by their own pseudo systems? Think.....

#31 by bulleya

But don’t you think that this is how it always starts. It is usually the one who as you say, looks himself in the mirror and sincerely goes about his business and then succeeds in getting the position of power and becomes a reformer. You would see this from the head of the government on down to private organizations. The person who actually brings about change is usually an exceptionally decent human being, but over a period of time the people around him, his family, friends, associates, hanger-ons start taking advantage of their position and before you know it you cannot distinguish them from the corrupt set up that they replaced.

So the question remains how do you break the cycle? Don’t tell me we haven’t tried to replace elites, power groups, every part of the power elite (except army of course) has been fair game. Now we are all set and ready to pounce on this last institution which has stood resolute for the period of our existence. Do you think these new comers, the huddled masses as you call them would they do better, or would they hijack us into a new direction with even greater corruption only to see the cycle repeat itself. Please don’t say that this is just an essential learning cycle in the lives of nations, because we just don’t have the time for such experiments any more.

bulleya

I beg your pardon. I am not the part of that corrupt system. I live in USA. I only visit Pakistaan for helping poor masses with the core of my heart. And please, don`t label me as a bragger here. As some Pakis do.

tehsinabbasi#30: .......i don`t know.......what i do know is that the elite should try to reform itself.........and the easiest way to do that is to look in the mirror and blames one`s self first, rather than getting into a merry go round of blaming the other........

.....i have always felt that if there ever is a people`s revolution in pakistan, in which the huddled masses overthrow the system, the first group these masses will come after is all of us chowk-types.......without much discrimination.......

.........we are, after all, the beneficieries of this unfair and unequal system........