The YouTube Baby

ive seen the clip and although i do not subscribe to the theology of that particular school of thought, the students questions were very pertinent and musharraf was worried as one could tell by the look on his face

---

not smug. it takes guts to challenge a dictator like that and hats off to the student.

in fairness mushy´s reply was also okay although he did fudge the more difficult questions.

the student´s questions:




mushy´s replies:

Mr. Syed Adnan kakakhel,

Questionaire in english translation.

``There are no two opinions about it: our biggest crisis is the lack of ideological unity, coherence of reflection and accord and unity [in general]. But the question is: why does this lack persist despite the passage of 58 years? The reason is that the basic platform that was given us, that is, ``La ilaaha ill-allah`` [the first clause of the first kalima in
Arabic, translating to ``There is no God but Allah``]... confusions have fogged [/clouded/bedevilled?] that concept. Following a well thought out plan, there are people who still ask why was Pakistan created, what was the vision of the Quaid [-e-Azam, the honorific title by which Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of the country, is referred to in Pakistan]? Aren`t these things quite clear? And who can answer this question better: you or I or that generation who coloured the map of the creation of Pakistan with blood [meaning the blood of their sacrifices]? This is a joke on their [departed] souls. This is a joke on their [departed] souls, this makes a mockery of their sacrifices, as if to say, `It is sad that you got cut up, but we didn`t understand what you meant.`


``Our second big issue is the law and order situation, and unfortunately, sometimes this is blamed on Islam, even though the study of the Qura`n informs us that Islam places the most emphasis on peace and security. Just consider the prayer of Ibrahim (PBUH) [Abraham]: he talks about the economy later, he talks about the economy later, he mentions peace first. He says: [prayer in Arabic here, skipping it, translates to:] `God Almighty, should that this settlement of mine be a centre of peace`, then he says [again in Arabic, translates to:] `Also, please put in order the economy of its inhabitants.` And God too, when he enumerates his blessings, says to Ibrahim, `We have settled you in a place that people visit repeatedly and which is a centre of peace.` All this is perfectly clear. The issue here is, why was our peace and security destroyed? How did our young man [actually, the word nau-jawan is gender neutral, but in practice and especially in this context, it is used to refer to men] become the tool of terrorists [in the sense of vulnerable or susceptible to their doctrine]? And why, day by day, do we find ourselves sinking further into the quicksand of lawlessness? Mr. President, the point to note is that this lesson was not taught him by some religion. This lesson was not told to him by any creed. It is
the [prevailing] class divide, economic system, de-valuation of talent, the hollowness of the educational framework [actually, he plays on words as the word he uses translates best to `skeleton`, but that just sounds odd in English], unlimited corruption and the abuse of power that are the fearsome problems that have {clapping starts} led the young man in this direction. {2.51} [If] you solve these problems, you solve these problems, then see [in the sense of check or monitor] whether this young men is a terrorist or a peace-lover.


``Our third great issue, that at the moment has assumed great
significance for us is the absence [/scarcity] of democratic
traditions. We have, as yet, been unsuccessful in creating a real
democratic culture and an environment respectful of the popular
mandate. The traditions of [legislative] assemblies that form and come undone, the manipulation of elections and, Mr. President, the bypassing of the Parliament in important issues affecting the national interest have undermined the confidence of the people in the present political system. {more clapping}


``Here, we should learn some lessons from the neighbouring country from where Mr. Mushahid has returned and where you are headed in the near future. We have the same date of independence. {relatively subdued clapping, more in anticipation} We have both been given the same time, but they have strengthened democratic traditions to such an extent in their country that regardless of the extent of the failure of the [civil] government, whatever storm breaks out, it is impossible [inconceivable?] that the Army should leave the barracks and assume power. {sustained applause}


``In the same vein, Mr. President, I believe that today this portrait of the Quaid {points} hanging in this hall questions you {points}, where you are standing, `General, you {points back} are supposed to be the guardian of the frontiers, who guided you in to the avenues of power [literally, the avenue of authority]?` {enthusiastic applause}


``And [coughs in that self-effacing way characteristic of maulvis on the pulpit], exalted sir, exalted sir, our third... our third biggest problem... our third biggest problem {raises his arm to ask for silence from the audience} is the elite class economy. According to your magicians of statistics, the economy is progressing, foreign exchange reserves are on the rise, loans have decreased, the begging bowl is broken. You repeatedly say
that earlier we used to go begging, now we go to bestow [/give/offer].
And the people are amazed [, asking themselves, ] `Dear Lord, what is this conundrum [literally, matter or issue]? The economy is progressing, [while] the poor man`s hearth is going cold [literally, the poor man`s stove is going out]. The foreign exchange reserves are growing, [while] the price of fuel is skyrocketing. Rupee... {has to pause due to burst of applause} rupee.. the value of the rupee has devalued so much. Where is it now?`


``And one more thing, Mr. President, you said that there is no harm in Basant, Islam does not prohibit entertainment at all, that, in fact, it encourages healthy entertainment. But, by the grace of God, let`s not insult the graves of the aspirations of the hapless victims of injustice. {Musharraf is seen to bite his lower lip} Please consider: Islam says that if in one home... there is this strange impression - fine, people, in their individual capacities fly kites, no one declares it haraam
[prohibited]. But, when a poor man sees that I have nothing to eat
[literally, no bread in my stomach], [while] my president is flying
kites, then he it appears to him that this gap that exists between us {makes motion indicating the two parties, much applause}, exactly [as if agreeing with himself!] - the poor man says, the poor man says that I - the poor man sees - the poor man... you have to understand his feelings - it looks exactly as if in one home there is a wake and in another, you play the drum, that I am free, the grief is yours, not mine. So there, no one will allow it, any religion would say, `Have a care for his feelings, share his tears, clasp him to your breast.`



``Apart from this, Mr. President, one very important thing that we feel [strongly about]: certain issues are exacerbated by the harshness of your tone. You tell the people of Balochistan, `We will hit you so you won`t even know where we came from`. {enthusiastic applause} These things.. You are the elder of the nation; you should converse with the nation in just the same way that you would converse with your son Bilal. You should - Mr. President, your tone... My sister invoked the subject of the uniform. You yourself told [this] nation of 140 million that you would take off the uniform and then you betrayed the promise
in the name of the national interest...``

The guy seems to be ranting, really. And I dont think he`s a student. Naqshbandi. He`s a molvi of a famous mosque at Guru Mandir area in Karachi that is was pretty active in recruiting Jihadis for Afghanistan during Zia era.

smug resignation


it`s more like so-i`m-bombing-your-jihadi-brothers-what`re-you-gonna-do resignation ..

There is no doubt in my mind that the ``interaction`` between the dictator and the ``student`` was a staged affair. Those who ``really`` question the dictator, face assasination, disappearance or exile.

#6 urstruly, can you substantiate this point. No muslim can ever do this to another muslim. You are lying through your secular, liberal teeth. Be a true musalman and say the truth.

It just takes a ten rupee paper kite, twenty rupee maanja, an unobstructed landscape and some willingness to let yourself go to fly a kite.
there are always more poor middle class participation in such events. It is not poverty of the people but what cheezes off the maulavi is that those people whom he considers as his ideological slaves are not willing to pay heed to his fatwas..............

# 3: excellent translation.

i dont think it was staged

---

the looks of barely constrained fury/embarassment/shock on mushy`s face during parts of the speech are evidence enough.

also the guy was introduced as a talib e ilm [student] of such and such a madrassah.

``So one is right to be left``...excellent pun...though i`d take it as un-intentional, perhaps accidental...the point is that Nadeem...whatever u write is totally correct but the problem is that it makes no difference...due to several reasons...not the most pathetic of which might be that u r addressing a people whor are (more or less) already in agreement with u...(well at least I am)...so u end up being no better than Ayaz Amir...who has also perched his bottom on a higher moral plane but continues to write for Dawn...which is accessible to perhaps 0.1% of Pakistani populations and comprehensible to even less than it...so what difference does he make rather than demonstrating his own cowardice/characterlessness as a man who knows the solution to the problem but is not willing to diffuse it for fear of reprisals from the powers that be...

Aprt from letting u vent out ur anger...these articles...impact wise...i m sorry to say...not serve much purpose...on the other hand...this particular piece has stimulated me to launch myself into this critique...also equally wasteful in terms of precious intellectual, temporal and mental resource...

So what should be the solution to counter the extreme right wing mullah...which is only right-wing because religion confines him to the right of political spectrum hence the only credible opposition can only come from the left which is as pathetic, if not more, as the Mullah group...

Molvee must be countered...but it would not be through posting dandy articles in fancy english on mummy-daddy-burger forums such as chowkistan...as has been said...and I assume (after having read most of your articles) that you`d recognize who said it...that ``Revolution (or in our case, let`s be modest, because we don`t even have the ability to pronounce the word ``Revolution`` correctly, let alone bring about one) can only be brought about by the power of spoken word...``

Being an avid reader of NFP I never expected this from him.

This article is a rant. And like so many other blogs where this video has been discussed, it all boils down to that person raising the questions is a bearded student of some madrassah. If the same speech had been made by some girl (or guy) in jeans we would be applauding her and also using the opportunity to emphasise that our current education system is flawed as this student educated in some posh school is bold, confident and knows how to talk straight to a dictator.

Somebody has raised question about abductions. Just google about freedom of press in Pakistan. Pakistan ranks amongst the countries with lowest freedom of press. Having numerous channels ranting about with or without uniform does not constitute freedom of press. Where are the abducted persons? How many journalists have been abducted by government so far? whats really happening in Baluchistan/Waziristan? Nobody dares to discuss this on TV channels. Private channels are usually available in urban areas. If the government is so in favor of freedom of expression, why don`t have a few of these anti-government discussions on PTV?

A total of 19 journalists have been murdered by government agents in Paksitan in the past 7 years. Most horrendous of these murders was that of Hayatullah, last year, who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by government agents after he exposed the truth behind the massacres of civilians in Waziristan. At present, Waziristan and Baluchistan both are no-go areas for journalists. As it has turned out jouranists are more threatened by govt than the local population.

Mirasi and others are just happy that they have freedom for their uchal kood and overexposed taxis and call girls over the tv and media. This is what they take as freedom of press. la holwilaquwat

Re: # 12

urstruly,

can you tell me where to find these ``overexposed taxis and call girls `` in the pakistani media - every time i tune in to geo or ary all i find is some fat bearded mullah or his shaven counterpart talking about heaven and hell to an audience of ugly girls in ninja uniforms and uglier young men with hairy chins ............ unless you consider the occassional pretty boy singing praises of the prophet sexually exciting, i don`t think there is a lot of ``uchal kood` going on in the pakistani media ..........

Absoluetly pathetic. Nadeem F. Paracha you are just as extremist and militant as the supposed “Islamic Scholar” you despise. If the same utterances would have stemmed from a random “wanna be” in a skirt or a “Burger” with a pierced ear-lobe (actually it couldn’t have, cause the pre-requisite is to be able to read) then you’d be all praise but since it came from a man whose beard length was not to your liking, you are furious that how dare he speaks the truth, like your daddy has a copyright on it or something. This is why Islam is against drugs & intoxication, it makes you a moron, nadeem f. paracha provides ample proof of that.

Re: # 14

abu-sufyan,

..... actually banging your head on the floor five times a day is a lot more harmful than `drugs and intoxication`` .........

Re: # 15
Chacha...hahahahaha..u really wanna go? remember i made u cry last time..

Re: # 16

abu,

... no, i really don`t remember .... would you care to remind me ?

Re: # 17
Its not ur fault od man, thats a by-product of dear ol millwaukee as well, come back when u r sober n we`ll rap..which basically means u shouldnt come back.

``... for many watching a young (bearded) man standing up to the most powerful person in the country, yes, but about what was he standing up for?`` (Nadeem Paracha)

the bearded young man was standing -- for the SAME base crummy principles that ``the most powerful man`` was sitting in his chair -- for the base crummy no-principles.

and please don`t blame the `Liberals` for either -- the L people are not responsible for your young bearded man standing up to -- nor for your old beardless man sitting down to --

blamiong the L people is by now an old cliche not worthy of a creative writer like you. What makes you think that it is not the fault of M people......may be it is the fault of the M people.....

It would appear that in Pakistan people in general are not what they claim to be - including the Marxists.

The fundos and the khakis are different sides of the same coin. They have lived in a symbiotic relationship since the the 1970s and depend on each other for their survival. Don`t be fooled by a you tube video clip.

Re: # 18

abu-sufyan,

...... i am puzzled by your statement ...... would you care to repost my post in which i `cried` and also your post that made me cry ? .......

The importance of being bearded:

The beard is not a personal choice of form like an ear ring, it is a political statement, a legitimacy, a sanction from God and all that is righteous. The gentleman if he had asked the same questions without invoking God and bringing in the inviolable word of the Quran to which nobody (at least in that audience) could question, that makes it coercive. This has been the hallmark of how every side has exploited Islam for their own ends. I have an interesting example:

It was in the time of Hadrat Uthman, when Amir Muawiyah as the governor of Syria proclaimed that “the public moneys are God’s property”. Abu Dharr (an ascetic) came to Muawiyah and said, “what leads you to use the term ‘God’s property’ for the public moneys of the Muslims?”

“God be merciful to you, Abu Dharr,” responded Muawiyah, “are we not God’s slaves, the public moneys His property, the created world His creation and public authority His authority”.

Abu Dharr said, “Do not use this expression.” He continued, “indeed, I do not say that (the public moneys) do not belong to God, but I shall call them ‘the property of the Muslims.’”

Of course the result can be predicted Abu Dharr was expelled from Syria back to Medina for causing fitna and was questioned by Uthman upon which he self exiled himself to living outside of Medina.

very nice paracha sahab. By the way people who were clappping should also watch the response Musharaf had for that idiot. Also, the so-called intelligent people of Pakistan seem to forget that in the so-called democracy people like that young student would not even have been able to question the leader of Pakistan. Like I said before it is a fad to shout democracy without learning the real meaning of it nowadays and Pakistani people on Chowk are the perfect example. They are always the first to point out the bad things but forget to mention the economic gains, the development work and especially their inability to receive Rishwat nowadays. I wonder how many of the people on Chowk belong to the upper class elite whose parents made all the money not based on their inteeligence but the corrupt culture of this God-Forsaken country, and how many people belong to the dari-wala parties.

Re: # 22

If the memory serves me right, the dialogue that you have cited occured between Abu Dhar Ghaffari(RA) and Uthman (RA) and not between former and Amir Muawiya (RA). Abu Dharr was an ascetic by nature and looked at the new found wealth of Muslims with disdain. Abu Dhar is also credit as the first Sufi in Islam for he promoted and astere lifestyle.

#24 by Urstruly

Arey yar aysay kaisay ho sukta hai. The dialogue with Uthman comes a little later, and this is how that went.

Muawiyah wrote to Uthman, “Abu Dharr has become a problem for me, and his case has involved such and such matters”. Uthman wrote him, “Verily dissension has protruded its snout and eyes and is poised to jump. Do not scrape the scab, but rather dispatch Abu Dharr to me. Send a guide along with him, give him adequate provisions, and treat him gently. Restrain the people and yourself as far as you can, for you will keep control (of affairs) so long as you keep control of yourself.”

So Abu Dharr was sent to Medina and when he came, Uthman said, “Abu Dharr, why are the Syrians complaining about the wounds inflicted by you?” Abu Dharr informed him how it was improper to say “God’s property,” nor was it proper for the rich to grasp after wealth. Uthman responded “Abu Dharr, I must carry out my own obligations and take what is owed by the subjects. I cannot compel them to be ascetics; rather, I am required to summon them to heed God’s commandments and to follow the path of moderation.” Then Abu Dharr said, “Then permit me to leave, for Medina is no home for me.”

The lack of focus on real issues runs down from the top and Musharraf is no exception. A judge and a number of lawyers get killed in a bomb blast in Baluchistan as part of a chain of terrorist attacks inside Pakistan. Next day, the doctrine-of-necessity president tells the press that the situation is improving, calls the recent incidents ``mamooli patakhay`` and focuses rest of his speech urging the nation to elect his supporters in the next elections. How is it different from the religious masses protesting some petty cartoons while ignoring all that is truly wrong around them?

this man - a friend of the prophet - really made a statement !

GUJRANWALA, Feb 20: Punjab Minister for Social Welfare Zille Huma Usman was shot dead by a man described by police as a religious fanatic when she was going to address an open court here on Tuesday.

Police arrested the accused, Maulvi Mohammad Sarwer Mughal, and seized a pistol he was carrying. The accused had been charged with killing four model girls and injuring a dozen others some four years ago, and he was acquitted by a local court for lack of evidence.

Witnesses said the 36-year-old minister, mother of two minor boys, was being showered with rose petals by workers of her party at the Muslim League House on the Asgher Ali Road when the accused fired on her.

Quoting the accused, who ran a hardware shop, DIG (operations) Khadim Hussain Bhatti said he was waging a jihad against anti-Muslim forces. “Women can’t become rulers in Islam,” he is reported to have been said.

AFP adds: Officials said the accused killed the minister because “she was not wearing Muslim clothing”.

“He killed her because she was not observing the Islamic code of dress,” local police officer Nazir Ahmad said.

Disgraceful. Can you imagine the hue had it been the lady who`d gone up to the guy and shot him for wearing a scary beard? And I shall also ask what Paracha asks at the end of his piece: How less “unIslamic” is this than the basant and women’s marathons, I wonder?

another statement by the believers

MIRANSHAH: An Afghan refugee was beheaded on Tuesday for being a US spy in North Waziristan. The decapitated body of Nek Amal, a 35-year old man from Zozak village in the Afghan province of Khost, was found in a roadside nullah in Saidgey village, near the Pak-Afghan border in North Waziristan. A note found near the body read, “Whoever spies for America will meet the same fate.” The militants, suspected to be pro-Taliban elements, also cut off their hands and feet. staff report

........ so how are the secular liberals going to respond to this ? ....... a marathon in miranshah ?

Paracha Sahib… a very nice write-up on the current state of affairs in Pakistan. Luckily, for the major part, the liberal left is confined only to Karachi (and to imported Karcahiettes in Islamabad). In Punjab there’s no such monster, as we have Molvis to deal with. Karachi is blessed with both kinds. In all honesty, the Paki liberal left comes across as the biggest scum of the earth – worse even than the Mullahs. Then we have people like our own Masadi Sahib, who is buy-one-get-one-free kind.

looks like it the Dark Ages for us. we will be lucky if we see some light in our life times.............

``Sometimes, (worse than the mullahs), it is the liberals that are giving intellectuality a bad name.``

Well said, the video`s popularity bothered me immensely. I`m so glad you wrote this.

Aisha Sarwari