Pandora Box of Television in Pakistan

Re: # 180 Tahmed
``...the love and appreciation I have for Pakistan and indeed every other country in the world that I have visited ...``

Have you visited Afghanistan? Do you know how much love your ISI has for Afghanistan? Do you still love Pak and Afghan equally with your sense of moral equivalency? How about India (overnight trips notwithstanding as your `visits`)? Catch my drift? Do you really love India as much as you love Pakistan? In the past you have been quick to defend your dictators - something that is incompatible with equal `love`. You won`t fool us.

Or how about equally `loving` Pakistan and USA? We know how much praise the Washington Post today was full of for Pakistan. When Director, DNI says `Any new attack on the United States is ``most likely`` to emerge from Pakistan`, we will rest assured that you `love` both countries equally.
Not fooled by your empty rhetoric
CIAO

Re: # 180

Baywaqoof insaan. I do not think Americans are progeny of satan and they drink blood of little children for breakfast. There are many positive individual and societal aspects that are appreciable but it does not mean that I should look the other way for less appreciable aspects of this society and nation -especially when the matter comes down to genocides, murder, and mayhem. For God`s sake, what is so hard to understand here. America absolutely do not need these criminal acts to be considered or to become the leader of the world (which Americans consider themselves in their own mind, whereas rest of the world consider them criminals who have gone breserk). With their innovative mind, knowledge, and technology America has the power to change the world without shedding the blood of one innocent. All it has to do is to obey the international laws that it helped establish and respect international institutions that again it helped establish. I cited the example, of China, which has become the second most influential country in the world without shedding blood of a single soul and without stealing the wealth of one single nation.Why can`t Americans do that??

I am not bad mouthing US. But US policies have geopardized my personal safety and the welfare of my family. Today, I have an equally likely chance of getting blown up in a terrorist attack as a white American does, because of these policies. I am only terribly scared. There is concerted effort in the society to disseminate religious hatered and bigotery against my religious beliefs, which I have no doubt in my mind will result in a Muslim holocaust. What is so hard not to understand this. It is simple law of nature that repitition of an action always yield similar results. So, if such bigotry and hatered in the past has already caused aparthied and holocaust in these (Western) societies, then why and how would repeating the same bigotry would yield a different result this time. I don`t bad mouth this country, but I cannot stay quiet either. If countries like China can maintain 10+% growth rate, for the past 20 years straight, without invading any country and killing one single soul then why can`t America. Americans have to get rid of this 18th century colonial mindset and criminal menatlity of their ancestors of grab-kill-occupy if they wish their nation to be considered a civilized nation in the world community. The relentless propaganda of self-congartulatory aggrandizement is no substitute for genuine moral uprightness. One day this very propaganda comes back to bite your ass, as it already has.

zeemax: ``lured into coming to the US``? be honest. you think the US has a shortage of people seeking to come here?

#173 urstruly: But you are no longer ``young and foolish``. And still chose to live in the US, not one year or two years but decades after you say you decided that US was not the country for you. Actions speak louder than words - you obviously consider the US to be a better country than any other place to live in.

You can of course live in the US and still reject some government policy or the other - the current administration`s policy in the middle east, in your case. But you cant give up everything in Pakistan and come to the US and settle down and live here and at the same time bad mouth the country at every corner. Because then the trouble is not with the country but with you.

#173 by Urstruly

It is gracious of you to respond honestly to an ad-hominem attack. I too was lured by the propaganda, but left in six months when I saw the `real` USA, up close and deep inside various communities including blacks and of red indian descent. I saw the moral bankruptcy of the rich and the wayward directionless, hopeless poor. I discovered that USA sux.

Indeed, that`s the first thing I noticed when I landed for the very first time at JFK. On the entire side of a building was written ``Eagles suck``. I discovered though that it was about a football team but still wondered what `suck` meant? It wasn`t long before I found out what it meant when I reached manhattan and went down into the subway and a teenage girl was doing the `suck` to her boyfriend right in the open just a flight of stairs down. It was reconfirmed when I made the mistake of visiting the toilet and a muscular gent lurking there offered to `suck` me as well .. And that was just the start.

After that there was no doubt. It is a nation of penis `suckers`.

Above is all true. Cross my heart and hope to die :~)

#173 by Urstruly

It is gracious of you to respond honestly to an ad-hominem attack. I too was lured by the propaganda, but left in six months when I saw the `real` USA, up close and deep inside various communities including blacks and red indians. I saw the moral bankruptcy of the rich and the wayward directionless, hopeless poor. I discovered that USA sux.

Indeed, that`s the first thing I noticed when I landed for the very first time at JFK. On the entire side of a building was written ``Eagles suck``. I discovered though that it was about a football team but still wondered what `suck` meant? It wasn`t long before I found out what it meant when I reached manhattan and went down into the subway and a teenage girl was doing the `suck` to her boyfriend right in the open just a flight of stairs down. It was reconfirmed when I made the mistake of visiting the toilet and a muscular gent lurking there offered tyo `suck` me as well .. And that was just the start.

After that there was no doubt. It is a nation of penis `suckers`.

Above is all true. Cross my heart and hope to die :~)

... one quality I missed about americans is that a large measure of them are sodomites, gays and lesbians. A great virtue for them, negating the very basis of family values which they pretend to uphold.

#172 by tahmed32

You can`t do much else but resort to ad-hominem.

#171 ``No one would have given a shit about US either, had it not have a habbit of invading one country per year and causing genocides there``

When you gave a shit about the US, actually much more than that - when you stood in line humbly with your application form for a US visa - you did that for the above reason then? :-)

Re: # 172

I must confess again, as I have done before that, I was beguiled and misled by the American propaganda, when I I immigrated. I was young and naive too. Had I known what I became aware of only with in a year of landing here I would have never come here.

#164 TehsinAbbasi: Agreed. In 19th century europe, a young prussian prince was often sought out as the target of attacks by the other boys. When asked by the teacher why they were always picking on him, the response was ``Because we want to be able to say that we kicked the future king.``

Not a very precise analogy to what you mention in your post, I agree, but indicative of the underlying problem.

#168 whatever you say boss. (sigh!)

#162 by tahmed32 re #161

If polls can swing from 40% to 29% in two years, that does not mean that the US has lost 11% of its strength (institutions, values, economic capacity) as a result.

The quoted polls have nothing to do with the measure of US strengths. They have everything to do with whether the world regards those strengths having a positive or negative influence in the world. The results are that these strengths are overwhelmingly perceived as having a negative influence.

Indeed, the US economy remains strong ...

The point is moot because a strong economy is not a value system or a moral example.

... its political institutions are robust (as shown by the route of the republicans in the last elections)

You forget it is the same political system which brought the current administration to power through a controversial count and the Supreme court Chief Justice`s ruling who happened to have been handpicked by the incumbent`s father, resulting in the Mayor of London refusing to greet the US President Bush on a State Visit because in his view he was unelected.

... its education institutions remain among the finest on earth...

For business studies and hard sciences, yes. For arts, literature, social sciences and other soft disciplines, no. The latter are the best in UK, France, and Canada. You can`t say what kind of disiplines are more `education` than the other.

... its justice system works far better than anything in Pakistan ..

Who is comparing US with Pakistan?

However if you compare it with the European justice system, there is simply no comparison. Besides, an example of the US justice system is given above. There is another one where Guantanamo continues to operate despite the Supreme Court having declared its military tribunals as illegal.

... and the US remains the beacon for individual freedom and liberty that it has been for the past 200 years.

That`s the most ridiculous comment I`ve ever seen. If you had said it remains the beacon of `Manifest Destiny` for the white races; which you wholeheartedly and honestly believe to be true, fair and just; I would accept that without further ado. But a beacon for freedom and liberty? Gimme a break here. Noone believes that after the Monroe Doctrine which I guess was within the 200 years you speak of... not even mentioning Iraq.

The United States of America is nothing but a shallow and deceitful `drama` which has played itself out on the world stage, and now stands fully exposed as an empty shell of a society. No one is fooled by its pretenses anymore.

:~)

#162 by tahmed32 on February 26, 2007 12:38pm PT


while trying to paint Pakistan as a US-hating country.


Prophet tahmed(peace be unto your self-righteous butt cheeks): 65% of pakis, that`s almost 2 out of 3, have a negative opinion of the US...the US government has declared Pakiland to be a non-family posting i.e. not safe for the families of US diplomats and embassy staff...just today, Dick stopped by to read mushy the riot act...

Anti-US feelings soar among Muslims

Percentage with unfavourable view of US in 2005 (all increased since 9/11 except where indicated: Saudi Arabia 79 percent, Jordan 65 percent, Morocco 49 percent, Iran 52 percent (down from 63 percent in 2001), and Pakistan 65 percent (down from 69 percent in 2001).

Tehsinabbasi sahib # 164

You hit the nail rite on the head. I believe almost all surveys are biased. And when something is much biased it loses it`s validity/credibility.

TALKING ABOUT SURVEYS:
World opinion on America goes from bad to worse.

What about world opinion of lets say China? ……….Why!
World opinion of Pakistan? …………………Where is it?
World opinion of Russia? …………………….Who cares.

First of all the validity of the surveys in all these lands is dubious, because of data manipulation. Next there is nothing worth reporting as nobody gives a damn. Only surveys are about America, because America matters. It is like that beacon of light, that town shining on the hill, that last hope of mankind. So whenever America falters, makes a mistake, everybody is on it, most of all America itself. From Washington DC to Tokyo, from Cape Town to Reykjavic – ask anybody and they will have an opinion (albeit a strong one) about George Bush, about America and about the Oscars.