India: Is Growth Coming at Expense of Development

#66 paulose

Thanks, as I expected you are a hate-filled human. This is typical of most religous fanatics, and, why should christian fanatics have a higher standard? Right?

You feel you can shamefully abuse me based on my name and ethnic background, a more open form of racism cannot be imagined. But I would expect nothing less from you. After all you belong to a religion which murdered 6 million jews in less than 10 years. That is a high standard of achievement that Bajrang Dal and LeT can never reach, poor things !

Good luck to you with your propaganda. I realize you need to create disinformation about the sufferings of the poor in india to get funding from the west. Heh, it is a business like any other, after all.

I notice that you avoided answering my question about how much money you are paid per convert. Also, whether you are paid a bonus when the entire family converts? Oh, well, I guess that is a trade secret of your business, er, church.

This site had many nuts of Hindu and Muslim variety. Now we need to welcome a Christain nut Paulose here.

///Christian caste - in India, the social stratification that persists among Christians, based upon caste membership at the time of an individual`s own or of an ancestor`s conversion. Indian Christian society is divided into groups geographically and according to denomination, but the overriding factor is one of caste. Caste groups may dine together and worship together, but, as a rule, they do not intermarry.///

(Encyclopedia Briatnnica).

Casteism is specific to India and Brahmins are not the defenders of caste! All Hindus, Muslims and Christains follow this system. Indians (or Hindus for instance ) dont follow this antiquated system in South-East Asia, South Africa, West Indies, South America or Mauritius.

As for dalits, they too are the defenders of caste! Dalit is a generic term to denote hundreds if not thousands of low-profession social groups. Among dalits they too follow this high-low paradigm within themselves. Now do u blame brahmins or caste?? Therefore u are barking at the wrong tree. As for ur `Christian` states in the north east, Why Christian Kukis and Nagas hunt the heads of each other??

Save urself b4 u save others. If u cant save urself from poison, pl join the elite group on Chowk (u already joind `em) & give us entertainment.

#71 by pau(loser)
They were the 1st to lick the boots of the British and get entrenched as clerks during British rule and then as civil servants after independence and are still dominating the ruling class.

A-hole, you are beneath contempt. Your forefathers converted just so they could avoid being persecuted and they were the ones who converted without resistance so they could spend the rest of their lives licking their British masters` boots.

But next time you meet your father or mother, please call them “chutiya” on my behalf.

They`re smart folks pal, so they don`t deserve such epithets, but your foolish arguments have certainly earned you the title.

I hope to God these 5 Christian states- Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland – don’t catch the Brahmin disease.

I don`t know about the other 4 states, but Kerala certainly seems to have caught some deadly disease, having given birth to your parents, who in turn produced a disgusting specimen like you.

#70 by srk

#69 by harish_hyd

It’s amazing two so-called hindus who are not Brahmins or Dalits are jumping to Brahmin people’s defence.

Brahmins DO NOT need any defending. They are on the top of the Indian food chain. They were the 1st to lick the boots of the British and get entrenched as clerks during British rule and then as civil servants after independence and are still dominating the ruling class. But the worst part is - they are not letting the lower castes come up.

I am surprised that 165 million of your fellow citizens, who happen to at the very bottom of the food chain and are “Dalits” just by accident of birth, DON’T elicit similar outrage from you. Where is your sense of decency PEOPLE ????

Brhamins have been on top of Hindu food-chain for thousands of years and Dalits have been at the bottom for thousands of years!!!!!!!

Your sheer hypocrisy is just mind-boggling.

Do you hindus EVEN have a SENSE of EQUALITY and JUSTICE ????????

SHAME ON YOU HINDU PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have lost all respect for you, hindus.

And another thing, Brahmins created caste-system. So any time any crime is committed on the basis of caste, by any intermediate castes, Brahmins MUST ALWAYS be blamed whether they committed the crime or not. It’s like when a dot-buster/skin-head busts the head of a hindu girl for wearing a bindi. The prosecutors don’t just charge the skin-head, they also charge the KKK guy who influenced the skin-head. And I thought they follow British Common Law in India. Duh !

Also, Mr. “harish_hyd” I don’t know what “chutiya” means. But next time you meet your father or mother, please call them “chutiya” on my behalf. OK.

I am so disgusted with you hindu people, I don’t have words to express it.

No wonder India (excepting Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland) is worse SHIT-HOLE than Africa. I hope to God these 5 Christian states- Kerala, Goa, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Nagaland – don’t catch the Brahmin disease.

When you hindus go abroad don’t be bringing your disease over. I just shudder thinking about it.

Got to get of here before I infected with what you have.

This time I am leaving this site for good.

Mr Paulose, How in the world you assumed i am a Brahmin. I don`t give a damn if u convert someone to your faith. It doesn`t bother me if someone changes from one dogma to another.

I am sick of all the nonsense dished out by religious nuts like you and your counter parts in Hindu and Muslim religions. Half the world problems are created and sustained by religious folks.

#68 by paulose

But I have done enough missionary work in India, done lot of anthropological research and am slowly beginning to understand the racist psyche of you Brahmins.

What a chutiya! How do you know SRK is a Brahmin? He could as well be a Dalit, don`t you think? That`s the problem with you missionary chutiyas, everyone questioning you is a bloody Brahmin and everyone arguing with a Brahmin is a Dalit, whose soul is waiting to be saved. Life is more than just black and white, ain`t it?

#67 by srk

Mr. SRK, I am not Catholic but a Pentecostal/Vendicose. But I stand by my Christian Brothers in times of crisis like the Catholic Clergy Child molestation scandal, unlike you Brahmins. And I have converted quite a few catholics to be good Pentecostals.

What I fail to understand is this -You Brahmins would not let a Dalit or Tribal into your house or your temple and then you will rape his wife and daughter and you still want him to remain a Hindu? Why? If you don’t like Dalits why can’t you just let him be a Christian? Why make laws barring conversion?

I have lived abroad all my life and the Indian caste system and discrimination really boggles my mind. It is worse than trans-atlantic slavery or Nazi-genocide or anything else I can think of. But I have done enough missionary work in India, done lot of anthropological research and am slowly beginning to understand the racist psyche of you Brahmins.

Anyway, don’t have time to take cheap potshots at you when so many poor, discriminated people need to be saved.

I know you Brahmins love the misery of Dalits. So READ AND ENJOY THE ARTICLE BELOW AND TEACH YOUR KIDS YOUR RACIST BRAHMIN BELIEFS.

Hope I have made your day. Bye. Bye.


http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/13/india15303.htm

India: ‘Hidden Apartheid’ of Discrimination Against Dalits

Government Fails to End Caste-Based Segregation and Attacks

(New York, February 13, 2007) – India has systematically failed to uphold its international legal obligations to ensure the fundamental human rights of Dalits, or so-called untouchables, despite laws and policies against caste discrimination, the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice and Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today. More than 165 million Dalits in India are condemned to a lifetime of abuse simply because of their caste.

The 113-page report, “Hidden Apartheid: Caste Discrimination against India’s ‘Untouchables’,” was produced as a “shadow report” in response to India’s submission to the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD), which monitors implementation of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD). The committee will review India’s compliance with the convention during hearings in Geneva on February 23 and 26.

On December 27, 2006 Manmohan Singh became the first sitting Indian prime minister to openly acknowledge the parallel between the practice of “untouchability” and the crime of apartheid. Singh described “untouchability” as a “blot on humanity” adding that “even after 60 years of constitutional and legal protection and state support, there is still social discrimination against Dalits in many parts of our country.”

“Prime Minister Singh has rightly compared ‘untouchability’ to apartheid, and he should now turn his words into action to protect the rights of Dalits,” said Professor Smita Narula, faculty director of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice (CHRGJ) at New York University School of Law, and co-author of the report. “The Indian government can no longer deny its collusion in maintaining a system of entrenched social and economic segregation.”

Dalits endure segregation in housing, schools, and access to public services. They are denied access to land, forced to work in degrading conditions, and routinely abused at the hands of the police and upper-caste community members who enjoy the state’s protection. Entrenched discrimination violates Dalits’ rights to education, health, housing, property, freedom of religion, free choice of employment, and equal treatment before the law. Dalits also suffer routine violations of their right to life and security of person through state-sponsored or -sanctioned acts of violence, including torture.

Caste-motivated killings, rapes, and other abuses are a daily occurrence in India. Between 2001 and 2002 close to 58,000 cases were registered under the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act – legislation that criminalizes particularly egregious abuses against Dalits and tribal community members. A 2005 government report states that a crime is committed against a Dalit every 20 minutes. Though staggering, these figures represent only a fraction of actual incidents since many Dalits do not register cases for fear of retaliation by the police and upper-caste individuals.

Both state and private actors commit these crimes with impunity. Even on the relatively rare occasions on which a case reaches court, the most likely outcome is acquittal. Indian government reports reveal that between 1999 and 2001 as many as 89 percent of trials involving offenses against Dalits resulted in acquittals.

A resolution passed by the European Parliament on February 1, 2007 found India’s efforts to enforce laws protecting Dalits to be “grossly inadequate,” adding that “atrocities, untouchability, illiteracy, [and] inequality of opportunity, continue to blight the lives of India’s Dalits.” The resolution called on the Indian government to engage with CERD in its efforts to end caste-based discrimination. Dalit leaders welcomed the resolution, but Indian officials dismissed it as lacking in “balance and perspective.”

“International scrutiny is growing and with it the condemnation of abuses resulting from the caste system and the government’s failure to protect Dalits,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “India needs to mobilize the entire government and make good on its paper commitments to end caste abuses. Otherwise, it risks pariah status for its homegrown brand of apartheid.”

Attempts by Dalits to defy the caste order, to demand their rights, or to lay claim to land that is legally theirs are consistently met with economic boycotts or retaliatory violence. For example, in Punjab on January 5, 2006 Dalit laborer and activist Bant Singh, seeking the prosecution of the people who gang-raped his daughter, was beaten so severely that both arms and one leg had to be amputated. On September 26, 2006 in Kherlanji village, Maharashtra, a Dalit family was killed by an upper-caste mob, after the mother and daughter were stripped, beaten and paraded through the village and the two brothers were brutally beaten. They were attacked because they refused to let upper-caste farmers take their land. After widespread protests at the police’s failure to arrest the perpetrators, some of those accused in the killing were finally arrested and police and medical officers who had failed to do their jobs were suspended from duty.

Exploitation of labor is at the very heart of the caste system. Dalits are forced to perform tasks deemed too “polluting” or degrading for non-Dalits to carry out. According to unofficial estimates, more than 1.3 million Dalits – mostly women – are employed as manual scavengers to clear human waste from dry pit latrines. In several cities, Dalits are lowered into manholes without protection to clear sewage blockages, resulting in more than 100 deaths each year from inhalation of toxic gases or from drowning in excrement. Dalits comprise the majority of agricultural, bonded, and child laborers in the country. Many survive on less than US$1 per day.

In January 2007 the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women concluded that Dalit women in India suffer from “deeply rooted structural discrimination.” “Hidden Apartheid” records the plight of Dalit women and the multiple forms of discrimination they face. Abuses documented in the report include sexual abuse by the police and upper-caste men, forced prostitution, and discrimination in employment and the payment of wages.

Dalit children face consistent hurdles in access to education. They are made to sit in the back of classrooms and endure verbal and physical harassment from teachers and students. The effect of such abuses is borne out by the low literacy and high drop-out rates for Dalits.

The Center for Human Rights and Global Justice and Human Rights Watch call on CERD to scrutinize the gap between India’s human rights commitments and the daily reality faced by Dalits. In particular, CERD should request that the Indian government:
• Identify measures taken to ensure appropriate reforms to eliminate police abuses against Dalits and other marginalized communities;

• Provide concrete plans to implement laws and government policies to protect Dalits, and Dalit women in particular, from physical and sexual violence;

• Identify steps taken to eradicate caste-based segregation in residential areas and schools, and in access to public services; and,

• Outline plans to ensure the effective eradication of exploitative labor arrangements and effective implementation of rehabilitation schemes for Dalit bonded and child laborers, manual scavengers, and for Dalit women forced into prostitution.
“International outrage over the treatment of Dalits is matched by growing national discontent,” Smita Narula said. “India can’t ignore the voices of 165 million citizens.”

“Hidden Apartheid” is based on in-depth investigations by CHRGJ, Human Rights Watch, Indian non-governmental organizations, and media sources. The pervasiveness of abuses against Dalits is corroborated by the reports of Indian governmental agencies, including the National Human Rights Commission, and the National Commission on Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. These and other sources were compiled, investigated, and analyzed under international law by NYU School of Law’s International Human Rights Clinic.

Background

The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is a body of independent experts responsible for monitoring states’ compliance with the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), ratified by India in 1968. It guarantees rights of non-discrimination on the basis of “race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin.” In 1996 CERD concluded that the plight of Dalits falls squarely under the prohibition of descent-based discrimination. As a state party to ICERD, India is obligated to submit periodic reports detailing its implementation of rights guaranteed under the convention. During the review session CERD examines these reports and engages in constructive dialogue with the state party, addressing its concerns and offering recommendations. CERD uses supplementary information contained in non-governmental organization “shadow reports” to evaluate states’ reports. India’s report to CERD, eight years overdue, covers compliance with the convention from 1996 to 2006 yet does not contain a single mention of abuses against Dalits – abuses that India’s own governmental agencies have documented and verified.

#66
We already have Hindu and Muslim nut jobs on chowk. Now that a Christian nut has joined the charade, we have Trinity of nuts. What a fun.

BTW, what alternate religion do u suggest for all the catholic boys molested by the Catholic priests all over the world :)

64 by pmishra2

Saw your post addressed to me and was wondering how you could help us Christians spread the Word

All that the Brahmins of UP and Bihar like Mishra, Pande, Jha, Chaturvedi have to do - is rape poor, young tribals from Jharkhand, like you have always done for the past thousands of years; and treat UP/Bihar dalits like shit; and we will keep Converting them to Christianity.

Mr. Mishra, you Brahmins are working so hard for us already; we really can’t ask for anything more; can we?

Thanks Anyway.

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=23212

Catholic prelate joins call for justice for rape victims

2/28/2007

UCANews

RANCHI, India (UCAN) – Thousands of people including the Catholic Church leader in the eastern Indian state of Jharkhand have demanded exemplary punishment for men who raped 13 tribal women.

The unmarried tribal women aged 16-20 reportedly were assaulted on Feb. 21 in Ballia district of Uttar Pradesh state, where they worked in a brick kiln.

Local news reports said that around midnight, at least 18 armed men entered a makeshift house for women workers. The men molested and raped migrant workers from Jharkhand`s Ranchi and neighboring Lohardaga districts.

As news of the incident spread, tribal organizations in Jharkhand called for protests. Thousands of tribal people responded, shouting slogans as they marched on Feb. 24 through Ranchi, the state capital, 1,160 kilometers (about 720 miles) southeast of New Delhi, and Lohardaga town.

Cardinal Telesphore Placidus Toppo of Ranchi said in a Feb. 23 press release that perpetrators of rape should be given exemplary punishment and victims should receive ``justice at all cost.``

The incident proves that women of ``dalit and tribal societies are not safe in the country even in the 21st century,`` Asia`s first tribal cardinal wrote. It ``also proves how the so-called higher-caste people see`` people belonging to dalit and tribal communities, he said.
“Dalit” is a Sanskrit term meaning ``trampled upon`` and is used to denote people at the bottom of the traditional Indian caste system who formerly were called ``untouchable.``

Cardinal Toppo described rape as ``the most heinous crime against humanity`` in comments for UCA News. ``Whether the victim is tribal or non-tribal, one could not find enough words to condemn whoever commits it.``

The protesters demanded that the Jharkhand state government ``act immediately`` to ensure that the culprits and kiln owners are charged and prosecuted. They also demanded a federal inquiry and compensation to the victims.

``Our poor sisters go to work in the brick kilns of Uttar Pradesh to support their families, not to lose their modesty,`` Neelam Baxla, a Catholic college girl who led the protest rally in Ranchi, told UCA News.

Some young people at the protest rally held their state government responsible for the situation in which poverty compels tribal women to migrate outside the state to make a living.


Jharkhand was carved out of Bihar state in 2000 for the declared purpose of augmenting tribal advancement, but its leaders have ``failed to guarantee`` adequate employment opportunities for tribal people, charged Michael Ekka, a college student.

Dayamani Barla, a tribal women leader, went further in asserting that ``the governments did nothing for the betterment of tribal people`` in the six years since the state`s formation and ``only exploited them further.``

According to Barla, hundreds of migrant tribal women ``eke out a livelihood`` in several Indian states, facing physical and sexual violence. ``So many tribal girls who have gone out for work, are missing too,`` she told UCA News.

Cardinal Toppo agrees that the state has not done enough ``to provide social security and eradicate poverty of our villages, which forces people to migrate as laborers.`` The kiln rape case puts the situation in stark relief, he said. ``This incident is an eye opener for the people and government of Jharkhand. We have to work for the poor joining hands.``

Reacting to the demands of various political parties as well as church and social organizations, Jharkhand Chief Minister Madhu Koda said he has asked officials to provide a detailed report about the incident.

Koda told UCA News on Feb. 24 that the crime would be probed with the help of the Uttar Pradesh government ``to ensure safe return of the girls and maximum punishment to the culprits.``

# 52 harimau/ re # 59

just checked my email; nothing from you; need info pronto; help will be greatly appreciated; thanks

#59 paulose

This is much more interesting than Aparna-ji vapid meanderings. How much are you paid per convert? What is the business model? Is it per-hindu? Or does have to do with caste and region? Or are there special bonuses for targetted people? Also do you have a quota? Like for example, if you conver 5 people before end of year, you get payment for each person PLUS some special thank-you money?

Can I also join your business? Maybe you can subcontract me some conversion money to me as well ! I have a friend who I think can be fooled into believing the stuff you are peddling.

#62 by mystical_facet on February 28, 2007 11:10am PT

The cost of building a 8 lane highway is not too greater than the cost of a 4/6 lane highway. Going by your logic, what`s the need for mobiles phones when there are poor fishermen?

Read up

#56...
sure highways are very important but really do they really need an eight lane highway for the farmers? could they have built a smaller one and utilized the remaining resources elsewhere? possibly to feed the malnutritioned children..who are the future of the country?

#57 by Shah2 on February 27, 2007 1:11pm PT


r u Kannadinga btw


nope...

# 59 Paulose

To people on this thread, please ignore my off-the-subject posting. It was just meant for Harimau Iyer. Just wanted him to email me some info. Sorry to interrupt this blog thread

#52 by harimau iyer

Totally forgot about this website, but had the email with login/pwd so was able to come back.

Anyhoo, you may have forgotten the friendly banter we had around Christmas time last year, about Kerala and Nairs. And you had mentioned something about Menon having Iyer blood or Iyer father or something like that. Can you provide me some more info about that? Like some web links, etc?

We are doing mission work with American-born Malayali Hindus, mostly Nairs, who are under-grads in US Universities and mostly confused and are trying to save them through Christianity. And I am so close to saving this Menon kid. Just need a bit info to push things over you know.

I know as an Iyer you have deep hatred for Nairs (don’t know reason for that but if you can elaborate that also, that will be great) and you would’nt mind sharing that info.

Also any info about Nair-Nambudiri Sambandham is also appreciated.

Just send an email to - neil_thomas@myfastmail.com

Just FYI –If you did not know already, Iyers have always been one of the greatest resource for missionaries in South India.

The Book – “Castes and Tribes of Southern India” written by missionary anthropologist -Edgar Thurston and an Iyer Brahmin guy -K. Rangachari, has been phenomenally helpful in converting millions of low-caste South Indian Hindus to Christianity.

As an Anthropology student I just read some of Edgar Thurston notes and it mentions how Rangachari was so eager to please him and help classify the dirty low castes properly which provided a great resource for systematic missionary work. Rangachari’s hatred for the low castes was greatly chanelled by Edgar Thurston to get some inside info on South Indian Hindu Society which greatly helped all missionaries who followed him.

In the same way I want to channel your hatred for Nairs for missionary work among Nairs. You hate Nairs and I would love to convert them to Christianity and it’s a win-win situation for both of us. You will be happy to know that I have some Nair relatives thru marriage and they are much better Christians than folks who were Christians at birth.

Thanks for all the help.