Tahera Sajid March 9, 2007
#33 Posted by socrates on March 11, 2007 12:20:56 pm
Re: # 24
You wrote,
...a woman...always has the right for khula.... the wife can ask for khula for no reason at all...
Well according to the Sahria`ah (that you seem to have read something about), does NOT allow women to seek khula without a valid reason; these `reasons` are actually enumerated in Islamic Jurisprudence and are only a few.
Again the right of a woman to divorce her husband is absolutely NOT allowed in Sharia`ah. This right of a woman to divorce is actually a part of the ``Family Laws`` in Pakistan, enacted by President Ayub in early 1960s. This has nothing to do with Sharia’ah; it is just a specific Civil Law in Pakistan, to provide some protection to women in an otherwise completely unequal situation in marriage. Infact most of the religious leaders in Pakistan have been doing their utmost for years to repeal these very laws.
Therefore in Pakistan when a women who keeps a right to divorce her husband, goes to the court to do the same, it is still called `khula` (not talaaq) because technically she cannot give `talaaq` to her husband under the Sharia`ah Law. The only difference from a `regular` khula here is that she does not have to provide any justification/reason for her decision; while otherwise she would have to come up with a `justifiable reason`. In either case in Pakistani court it is called `khula` and not `talaaq`.
Although I think this debate about the exact terminology is useless while assessing a short story such as this (it is divorce whichever way you see it), I am writing these comments as a student of law, with the hope that in future before you post any rude comments again, you would first go and read about whatever you are writing yourself.
As far as the article itself is concerned, it simply had me enthralled from the beginning to the end. I never seemed to have lost my interest and curiosity as to what was coming next. The theme of the story was good and relevant to the present. It proceeded seamlessly so that there never seemed a break in the narrative. That is great storytelling. Although the story could have taken so many turns, it is the choice of the author to take it where she wants it to go. I don`t think the story was predictable; maybe because I really can`t see into the future! There is a strong message of hope for so many women like Sonya who might otherwise simply `accept their fate`. Great story. Way to go Tahera. Hope to see more from you.
You wrote,
...a woman...always has the right for khula.... the wife can ask for khula for no reason at all...
Well according to the Sahria`ah (that you seem to have read something about), does NOT allow women to seek khula without a valid reason; these `reasons` are actually enumerated in Islamic Jurisprudence and are only a few.
Again the right of a woman to divorce her husband is absolutely NOT allowed in Sharia`ah. This right of a woman to divorce is actually a part of the ``Family Laws`` in Pakistan, enacted by President Ayub in early 1960s. This has nothing to do with Sharia’ah; it is just a specific Civil Law in Pakistan, to provide some protection to women in an otherwise completely unequal situation in marriage. Infact most of the religious leaders in Pakistan have been doing their utmost for years to repeal these very laws.
Therefore in Pakistan when a women who keeps a right to divorce her husband, goes to the court to do the same, it is still called `khula` (not talaaq) because technically she cannot give `talaaq` to her husband under the Sharia`ah Law. The only difference from a `regular` khula here is that she does not have to provide any justification/reason for her decision; while otherwise she would have to come up with a `justifiable reason`. In either case in Pakistani court it is called `khula` and not `talaaq`.
Although I think this debate about the exact terminology is useless while assessing a short story such as this (it is divorce whichever way you see it), I am writing these comments as a student of law, with the hope that in future before you post any rude comments again, you would first go and read about whatever you are writing yourself.
As far as the article itself is concerned, it simply had me enthralled from the beginning to the end. I never seemed to have lost my interest and curiosity as to what was coming next. The theme of the story was good and relevant to the present. It proceeded seamlessly so that there never seemed a break in the narrative. That is great storytelling. Although the story could have taken so many turns, it is the choice of the author to take it where she wants it to go. I don`t think the story was predictable; maybe because I really can`t see into the future! There is a strong message of hope for so many women like Sonya who might otherwise simply `accept their fate`. Great story. Way to go Tahera. Hope to see more from you.
#34 Posted by hamidm2 on March 11, 2007 4:46:09 pm
Re: # 26
bj mian,
....... i think you have some real talent and a great future as a writer of sappy paperbacks that make women cry and drive real men to puke and cry out: ``Praised be God that he has not created me a gentile! Praised be God that he has not created me a woman! Praised be God that he has not created me an ignoramus !`` ....... unfortunately some of can`t be so sure about the last one ..........
...... anyway, i don`t mean to belittle tahera`s skills as an aspiring m&b authorette (no, that is not a real word), but i`d rather od on dean koontz, john grisham and stephen king before i touch this sissy stuff ........
bj mian,
....... i think you have some real talent and a great future as a writer of sappy paperbacks that make women cry and drive real men to puke and cry out: ``Praised be God that he has not created me a gentile! Praised be God that he has not created me a woman! Praised be God that he has not created me an ignoramus !`` ....... unfortunately some of can`t be so sure about the last one ..........
...... anyway, i don`t mean to belittle tahera`s skills as an aspiring m&b authorette (no, that is not a real word), but i`d rather od on dean koontz, john grisham and stephen king before i touch this sissy stuff ........
#36 Posted by philosopher on March 11, 2007 6:37:30 pm
Re: # 34hamidm2 gadhay
only a person of your calibre can admire a 3rd class man like bjkumar.
you are going very well to your third class mentality.and man dont try to creat `awareness` in me coz baby i m adoing phd in philosophy and i am miles away from what your countless forefatherfathers can imagine. i know u r a `balanced` nation. but u wont concentratere.i know. i am Quran
#37 Posted by bjkumar on March 11, 2007 8:46:35 pm
#36 Philosopher
Yaar, may I gently enquire why you are so upset with me? To the best of my knowledge, I have never interacted with you. :)
#38 Posted by epiphany on March 11, 2007 8:50:48 pm
Tahera Sajid,
Touching story. It made me think seekingly about the fickle nature of humanity; how one person in a relationship, like a dysfunctional wheel, could separate from the when the road to life became discomforting.
I have heard so many times the cliche: ``Love will survive.`` It almost makes the phenomenon of love sound like an objective, living entity. Well, love is only as real as it is in mutual capacity felt and lived and understood.
I like this piece of prose but would also like to know what the message the author wants to send across. Also, given the cultural and religious tradition in this context, was Umar wrong in obeying his mother or was it unreasonable of Sonya to act the way she did? A further illucidated perspective on these issues would be helpful in understanding the piece better.
However, I can feel Sonya`s rage by these lines:
``She opened the door. There he stood, unshaven and dishevelled. She felt no love for him, only contempt.
With one swift movement, she slapped him hard across his cheek – the cheek she had touched lovingly so many times in the past.
He stared in disbelief.
“Don’t ever come here again.” She muttered coldly.
Umar saw steely resolve in her eyes… and knew he was beaten.``
Peace!
Touching story. It made me think seekingly about the fickle nature of humanity; how one person in a relationship, like a dysfunctional wheel, could separate from the when the road to life became discomforting.
I have heard so many times the cliche: ``Love will survive.`` It almost makes the phenomenon of love sound like an objective, living entity. Well, love is only as real as it is in mutual capacity felt and lived and understood.
I like this piece of prose but would also like to know what the message the author wants to send across. Also, given the cultural and religious tradition in this context, was Umar wrong in obeying his mother or was it unreasonable of Sonya to act the way she did? A further illucidated perspective on these issues would be helpful in understanding the piece better.
However, I can feel Sonya`s rage by these lines:
``She opened the door. There he stood, unshaven and dishevelled. She felt no love for him, only contempt.
With one swift movement, she slapped him hard across his cheek – the cheek she had touched lovingly so many times in the past.
He stared in disbelief.
“Don’t ever come here again.” She muttered coldly.
Umar saw steely resolve in her eyes… and knew he was beaten.``
Peace!
#39 Posted by bjkumar on March 11, 2007 8:57:38 pm
#34
(further thoughts)
Hamidm2 mian, thanks for your confidence in my abilities. Now that you mention it, I am all excited and my creative juices are really bubbling up in heady heat - I can not wait to get cracking to claim that mantle as THE writer of sappy paperbacks that make women cry and drive real men to puke and to cry out.
Before you know it, this web site will start drowning in tears on one side and puke on the other side!
What a sangam that will be!! :)
All of it thanks to YOUR encouragement, sir!! I am beginning to fall in love with you.
#40 Posted by bjkumar on March 11, 2007 8:59:26 pm
#39 (addendum)
...Therefore, take your pick of tears or puke! :)
#41 Posted by TaheraSajid on March 11, 2007 9:49:10 pm
Re: # 38
Thank you so much for your indepth review...
This story was not meant to be essentially moralistic. Truth is relative. Umar was not wrong, nor was Sonya. Life is all about making choices, be they right or wrong. Once done, however, one has to live with the consequences...as did Sonya and Umar!
Your line `love is only as real...understood` seems to put things in proper perspective quite nicely!! :)
Thank you so much for your indepth review...
This story was not meant to be essentially moralistic. Truth is relative. Umar was not wrong, nor was Sonya. Life is all about making choices, be they right or wrong. Once done, however, one has to live with the consequences...as did Sonya and Umar!
Your line `love is only as real...understood` seems to put things in proper perspective quite nicely!! :)
#42 Posted by TaheraSajid on March 11, 2007 9:56:55 pm
Re: # 33
Thanks for your kind words regarding my piece ... glad you liked the storyline, as well as my style, and found it to be a pleasant read. :)
Thanks for your kind words regarding my piece ... glad you liked the storyline, as well as my style, and found it to be a pleasant read. :)
#43 Posted by TaheraSajid on March 12, 2007 12:38:22 am
Re: # 30
No, not M&B... Virago, anytime!!! :)
No, not M&B... Virago, anytime!!! :)
#44 Posted by ZahraJ on March 12, 2007 2:04:52 pm
I do not want to further disturb the train of thought that was discussed in this fictional piece, but it will be unfair not to analyze and evaluate the story from a different angle.
What I would have liked to see -
a. Sonya should have taken her mother in law to task for forcing her son to marry someone else. The very idea to marry or have sex with another woman to have a child sounds pretty disgusting. Slapping XYZ (whatever her hubby`s name was) did not convey much. I would have liked to read a conversation between the m-i-l and Sonya. It seems that m-i-l was all in power to do whatever she could. We are misleading our future generations.
b. I wished there was a court where Sonya could file a suit against her husband on various accounts, e.g. inability to withstand marital responsibilities, inability to refuse the orders of his mother impacting their marriage, and excluding her from his plans of a 2nd marriage.
What the writer should not have done
(By doing that she supports the cultural mental fatoor)
c. Portraying women as the maker or breaker of a relationship. So, it`s Sonya who could not have a child. Why was that important to prove? It also gives a message that women are the ones with some issues when it comes to not being able to have a child. Why could not the man have some issues ? Is that a taboo subject ? Again, the man was shown as the all-in-power king here who could impregnate another woman and have a child through her. Yes, he looked emaciated and not his usual self, but beyond that it was Sonya who had to reinvent her life. It also portrays a poor image of men.
d. The writer saves the man from the wrath of his wife by putting the blame on the mother in law for impacting his current relationship. It also ascertains that men have no say in the relationship with their wives and can be twisted in any direction by their mothers. These mothers are also women. What are we saying here?
e. Now, let`s visit poor Huma who was used as a scapegoat in this episode. It`s unfair to misuse cousin relationship.
In short, I would not change this story but I would like to read a sequel that is in complete contrast to this story. Probably, that can be a story of Ujala and Umar`s son.
I think Hamidm can come up with some interesting ideas based on all the years of Hoor and Zaibunissa reading :p
What I would have liked to see -
a. Sonya should have taken her mother in law to task for forcing her son to marry someone else. The very idea to marry or have sex with another woman to have a child sounds pretty disgusting. Slapping XYZ (whatever her hubby`s name was) did not convey much. I would have liked to read a conversation between the m-i-l and Sonya. It seems that m-i-l was all in power to do whatever she could. We are misleading our future generations.
b. I wished there was a court where Sonya could file a suit against her husband on various accounts, e.g. inability to withstand marital responsibilities, inability to refuse the orders of his mother impacting their marriage, and excluding her from his plans of a 2nd marriage.
What the writer should not have done
(By doing that she supports the cultural mental fatoor)
c. Portraying women as the maker or breaker of a relationship. So, it`s Sonya who could not have a child. Why was that important to prove? It also gives a message that women are the ones with some issues when it comes to not being able to have a child. Why could not the man have some issues ? Is that a taboo subject ? Again, the man was shown as the all-in-power king here who could impregnate another woman and have a child through her. Yes, he looked emaciated and not his usual self, but beyond that it was Sonya who had to reinvent her life. It also portrays a poor image of men.
d. The writer saves the man from the wrath of his wife by putting the blame on the mother in law for impacting his current relationship. It also ascertains that men have no say in the relationship with their wives and can be twisted in any direction by their mothers. These mothers are also women. What are we saying here?
e. Now, let`s visit poor Huma who was used as a scapegoat in this episode. It`s unfair to misuse cousin relationship.
In short, I would not change this story but I would like to read a sequel that is in complete contrast to this story. Probably, that can be a story of Ujala and Umar`s son.
I think Hamidm can come up with some interesting ideas based on all the years of Hoor and Zaibunissa reading :p
#45 Posted by bjkumar on March 12, 2007 2:57:57 pm
#44 by ZahraJ
Good imagination but a bit too sissy for my taste! Let me provide an alternate version – a bit shorter than yours, but more of a macho suspense theme.
Sonya is mad at her ex-hubby. She goes hires a hatchet man. Hatchet man hacks ex-hubby to death – cannibalizing a few vital organs. Sonya has no money to pay him so she tries to sleep with him. But hatchet man is gay – Sonya detests him. Hatchet man blackmails her. Sonya steals from mother-in-law to pay him. But the money has actually come from the Mullah who is having an affair with the mother-in-law and who is secretly funding mother-in-law by stealing from jihadi boxes. The jihadis come after the hatchet man, but they are gay in temperament and the hatchet man is able to charm them and sleep with them. Sonya gets pregnant through artificial insemination but loses custody of the children to the hatchet man and his partner gay jihadi and the children grow up to become butch lesbians. Then Pakistan develops into a progressive, liberal Ram rajya and everybody starts to live happily ever after. End of story!
#46 Posted by scout_new on March 12, 2007 5:04:30 pm
interesting story but something`s off... i`m not sure what, i`d like to think most devoted husbands wouldn`t do this to their wives of ten years... but then this was a story... i wonder how things would have changed if she had a baby girl, not really the eastern version of a heir but a baby nevertheless.
anyway, good read, someone said it was a bit Soapy and i agree, but that`s ok, it held the reader`s interest till the end
anyway, good read, someone said it was a bit Soapy and i agree, but that`s ok, it held the reader`s interest till the end
#47 Posted by ZahraJ on March 12, 2007 8:41:04 pm
Re: # 45
BJK - Sorry, very dark, vulgar and inappropriate imagination. I am glad that you are not writing the sequel.
BJK - Sorry, very dark, vulgar and inappropriate imagination. I am glad that you are not writing the sequel.
#48 Posted by TaheraSajid on March 12, 2007 8:51:28 pm
Re: # 46
Thanks for your comments...glad you found the piece to be a good read, even though a bit `off`!!! :)
Thanks for your comments...glad you found the piece to be a good read, even though a bit `off`!!! :)
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