Teaching Science Badly – and Well

#129 by hamidm2

Brilliant ! How come the best of your ire is reserved for poor tehsinabbasi? Perhaps you don`t like socrates ... hmmm ....

Re: # 130

zeemax,

...... i have known tehsin before he ruined his eyes by playing with his peepee and ruined his mind by reading socrates ...... but even at his worst he is a better man than you, and if you are not careful he will make you cry like a little girl from jamia hafsa ............

Excellent commentary, Naved. Mammon`s our new God. Increasingly, all else shall flow from and to Him,... science/knowledge included.

The write-up on `good science` is very timely aside from this issue being of a degree of importance which often goes unrecognized. Dr Hoodbhoy has, however, not quoted the study which gives such high marks to the state of science education in India. While it is good to receive a laudatory comment from the `other side` and that too from a person of his eminence, the findings of the uncited study are highly suspect. Evidence available from sources like reports of various Boards of Education, a review carried out by the Indian Academy of Science and anecdotal evidence of teachers all indicate that despite a few centers of excellence the general state of science education in this country is not too much to right home about. As someone who had something to do with some of the policy aspects of the matter in the 1990s, may I draw attention to a few pointers which may help in a better understanding of the state of science education in India with a few lessons (hopefully) for South Asia and elsewhere in the developing world. They are;
1. First and foremost; science education may be on offer for reasons ascribed in the write-up such as understanding the universe etc, these exalted objetives have somehow disappeared from the perspective. Today, the objective of receiving science education, and of teachers imparting it, from school level onwards, is generally for improving material prospects which often boil down to gaining admissions to institutions of Medical or Technial Education.
2. Precisely for the above reasons, the motivation of students joining courses in Sciences at Under Graduate levels and above, is very poor. Leaving aside the odd `oddball` these students have gravitated to such courses as a poor alternative after having failed to make the grade in the institutions referred above. Accounts from fairly reputed Universities indicate that a majority of students doing Masters` in as elite a discipline as Physics invest most of their time and attention to prepare for tests for admission to Management programmes.
3. The net result is that the College University system retains only the frustrated for a career in research and education. The shool system is in particular a casualty as a career as a school science teacher is not a priority at all. The lady or gentleman joining as a ``Post Graduate Teacher`` is a despairing soul who is where she or he is, for no fault of her/ his. Even for this demoralized lot, the silver lining is to make a minor fortune in private coaching institutions- millionaire school teachers are no longer a rare phenomenon!
The solution does not lie with further improving the material prospects of teachers- service condition of School, College and University Teachers have improved dramatically in the last few decades in India and it is doubtful if further dramatic improvement is sustainable. The issue ironially is of creating a social climate wherein acquiring a knowledge of science is a goal in itself. In short, the reasons for obtaining education in science put forward by Dr Hoodbhoy must be acepted by the society.With such acceptance, admissions to Medical and Engineering Colleges and allied (potentially) money-spinning activities will become `fringe benefits` rather than be-all and end-all of science education.
How could this goal be achieved in the foreseeable future, though, is a question which begs itself. The civil society has clearly failed to bring this matter to the center-stage of its concern. The imperatives of choosing what can be done over what should be done have kept the issue away from the priorities of the political-bureaucaratic system. Theoretical or abstract as it may sound, the only pragmatic option is for lobbies and pressure groups to hammer this point home day in and day out so that the cause of `science for civilization`s sake` is brought home to the people at large- that is the only way the cause advocated by Dr Hoodbhoy can be taken further.
Naved Masood

#99 Hamidm2

Mian, I think that YOU folks are truly the deluded bunch.

(1) Pakistanis have no money of own – it is Uncle Sam pumping in the resources to keep the place running.

(2) When Pakistanis do manage to scrounge up a bit of money, they need to use it to provide a well-deserved boost to the salaries of its brave patriotic khaki warriors – the pride and joy of the ummmmmmaaaah! Little is left.

(3) If any amounts do remain available, those are needed to carry the message of Islam to far-away lands – starting with the neighbor next door, so as to build upon the unblemished track record of improving the life style of the Kashmiris which has been doing so by leaps and bounds since 1989.

(4) Whatever further can be spared is of course needed to replenish the campaign coffers of the Honorable Eatallofus Towns of Brooklyn, New YourK!

Why would ANY patriotic Pakistani want to pay for Science - or even the three R`s!

hamidm to naqshbandi #108 ``all this stuff about `` science and religion occupy two very different spheres of human existence`` is utter nonsense

I beg to differ. You fly a plane based on science, not religion (Except in PIA of course, where they start a flight by mumbling some magic words in arabic which they hope will convince Allah to send a farishta to give the plane that extra lift). But... You enjoy the plane ride based on religion, not science (by getting the peace of mind that comes with knowing that even if the plane doesnt quite make it, it is no big deal because there is more to things then our existence).

Zeemax #81,

``But Hamidm, to change the unpalatable subject and on another point, perhaps you know that the best mathematical and IT talent is neither with Chinese nor the hinjus nor anywhere in the USA. It is in Romania and the Czech Republic .. and neighbouring regions.``

Hmm...could you please tell us about a few recent mathematical breakthroughs that have
emerged from Romania or Czech Republic in recent times ?

Also, what does North Korea acquiring nuclear weapon technology (which is very modular)
have anything to do with their science and engineering competence ?

#120 by Tehsinabbasi

If you can claim to study aristotle and the like deeply, I suggest you do the same with Quran. Unless of-course you think it was written by an illiterate bedouin, in which case you may not deem it to be worthy of further thought.

anil writes <<< The pecking order has been created through the use of knowledge and human mind >>>

Another ignorant response by you. The global pecking order works inspite of the will of the vast majority of humanity, it is not the result of knowledge but a manipulation of knowledge to perverse ends. The human mind and ideas have less to do with it than wealth and power. Knowledge and products of the human mind, through necessity are in its service as hired hands and whores. In our world knowledge and men of knowledge are not determinants but dependant variables, they are acted upon but are quite powerless to act except in enhancing the status quo...

Hamid mian, one man`s criteria for failure might be another`s criteria for success. The fact that waderas that the World Bank is happy to employ feel threatened by a mere sociology lecturer says quite a bit for who won and who lost......think about it

Re: # 122

Massadi Mian:

``....it is not the result of knowledge but a manipulation of knowledge to perverse ends....``

Manipulation of knowledge, requires knowledge. Just as you are manipulating the little knowledge that you have. What you fail to understand is that there is nothing wrong in manipulating knowledge, it only creates more knowledge.

#119 by ramchandar

What part of the content of #115 do you want me to comment upon? All this has been discussed threadbare time and again, and perhaps you`re new but then you can search for those discussions.

#116 by zeemax

“No. I don`t think that`s what Quran means literally.”

Ay Muslim! Try to understand the meaning of Muslim. Muslim means the one who has submitted to Islam and to the will of God. You say I DON’T THINK! Who gave you the right to think when it comes to the Quran ‘literally’. Go back and examine your faith, don’t be blasphemous like me.

Ref#117

Zee you did not comment on the content of #115

Ref#117

Dear Zee

It not victory for faithfreedom.org. It is victory for Pakistani writer Anwar Shaikh and his book Islam - An Arab Imperialism.

#115 by ramchandar

Aah .. that`s at-least one victory for faithfreedom.org ... the power of the internet ..

Congratulations.

#113 by Tehsinabbasi

Okay. Even though this is the `Fundamentals of Existence 101`, since you have asked, I shall answer. But please don`t ask me to elaborate. That`ll be too tedious.

- Are you saying that you will not be maggot meal?

No. The emphasis is on `you`.

- That you will be transported to Junnah and have your 72 hoors right away or do you believe that you will have to wait in your grave till judgment day when you will be summoned to answer for your deeds.

No. I don`t think that`s what Quran means literally.

- Isn’t that a long time to wait, because the ones you admire so much didn’t believe that judgment day was so far away. Forget maggots you’d be lucky to find dirt their.

See above.

- Is your body you and the spirit just the breath in it? Isn’t the conception of heaven that has been sold to you contain nothing but hedonistic pleasures, eat fruit, drink sharab e tahura, screw hoors and ghilmans.

You take a false premise and continue to build upon it. I told you in the beginning I don`t believe all that.

- If that is what your eternity will be like, Why bother - go to the playboy mansion its all there. Even that, if you are anything more then a pig, you will get sick of it in a couple of years. There is more to us then being an eating, fukking machine (a pig).

See above. You`re just making an assumption about what I think and then running away with it in your silly rage to prove I don`t know what .... My opinions have nothing to do with your assumptions.

Re your last sentence in the para above, what is that `more`? I would really like to know. It also appears you think there`s an `eternity`. And what could be that?

:~)