Teaching Science Badly – and Well

Re: # 17

Natural sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) are the foundation on which the whole structure of what is loosely called ``science and technology`` rests. More specifically, good quality engineering research is impossible without a basic understanding of the physics involved. Pakistan may be churning out thousands of engineers, but their contribution to the advancement of engineering is negligible because of the reasons mentioned by Professor Hoodbhoy.

There is a difference between a good technician and a good engineer. And that is knowledge of physics.

Re: # 17 zeemax, you are talking about ``useful`` subjects and not ``real`` subjects.

The learned profesor is talking about ``real`` subjects.

Dr. Hoodbhoy thinks science begins and ends with just `physics` i.e. his own discipline ... and he builds his entire thesis on that erroneous premise saying ``A normal, intelligent and curious child – particularly if he or she is Pakistani – must think science to be the most wretched of subjects at school.

Though the author may not realize it, medical studies is science too. So is pharmacology, so is electrical / mechanical / civil engineering, and so is computers. Does any Pakistani student think of these as wretched subjects? The universities churn out tens of thousands of these each year with many achieving excellence in these fields domestically and abroad.

It is true though that physics / chemistry etc are less popular, but it is only because vocational opportunities in these are severely limited. The emphasis from high-school onwards is on vocational disciplines which can get a job, and not on satisfying curiosities as a hobby. If jobs were available for these disciplines, there would be many students opting for these ...

There is no religious bar on acquiring scientific knowledge, and the professor is completely unaware of that. However, he is right about a few and far-between silly pronouncements on TV etc but those are just opinions amongst all other kinds of silly opinions, to many of which the author may himself subscribe. His concern is highly exaggerated.

Professor Hoodbhoy does not understand Pakistan very well, and it is clear in each one of his articles.

Respected Pervez Saheb,
Aadab,

I have read many of your articles on science and found all of them very inspiring. They appear to deal with science but in reality teach sociology, politics, economics, business and other aspects of progress as well. I appreciate your ability to keep desperation away and write with patience and cool-headed manoeuvring through the dark cob-web of false notions and confusing interpretations that abound in the Pakistani society. Many times I extract humor out of it when you happen to approach science vis-a-vis religion. Sometimes I wonder if it is good that most Pakistanis don`t read your articles or they could find out many subtle blasphemies in it. I consider you one of the best sons of Pakistan and even if Pakistanis don`t learn from your teachings indeed Indian Muslims can learn much.
May I draw your attention to following sentences taken from your current article which the fundamentalists from Pakistan can never come to terms. They can easily give Fatwa: If you believe in Science you don`t believe in Quran.

``....a high premium is put upon skepticism and there is a deep distaste for dogmatism.``
``Science refuses to offer an opinion on things that are unobservable, or whose existence is impossible to verify even in principle. What you cannot see may still actually be there, but science is going to be mum about it. It’s as simple as that.``
Also, allow me to say that keeping mum on anything wrong can not serve the purpose.

Samar

#Samar 1982

``even if Pakistanis don`t learn from your teachings indeed Indian Muslims can learn much.``

Dr.Hoodbhoy had oppertunity to opt for India... instead of suporting two naton theory by

remaining in Pakistan

.....Besides HIS DEFENITION OF SCIENCE itself is not a verifiable free from scepticism that he thinks is scientific ..iDo all reknowned scientist that he admires inIndia agree to that?f

youDr Hoodbhoy) make all the things under the sun tht is rational including philosophy ,kartography, calligraphy, poetry ,music as YOUR OWN SCIENCE.. its ridiculous...

Knowlegde is INDUCTIVE and DEDUCTIVE ...both are NOT exclusively science

``In contrast, a recent survey in India revealed that a majority of school students see science as the most glamorous and interesting career to pursue...``

Do they teach Science differently in India than in Pakistan?
I don`t think so.
It`s just that aspiring physicists have a better career path in front of them in India than in Pakistan.

Just to play the Devil`s advocate, let`s not forget that too much of a `scientific mindset` can make one an emotional cripple.
Real life, outside the lab, is so full of passionate subjective experiences. So many important decisions in life require evaluating subjective impressions. So much is based on uncertain truths. The most `useful` skill to have in life is to risk oneself in an act of faith. I don`t mean faith in a dogmatic religious sense. I mean an act of commitment in the face of uncertain truth.

#23 by khurram on March 2, 2007 8:06am PT

[let`s not forget that too much of a `scientific mindset` can make one an emotional cripple.]

My dear, you appear to have no clue of what you are talking about.

Dr. Sahib,

From one student of science to another, I really don`t know how you have the patience to stay in Pakistan and try and deal with dullards everyday. Pakistani children are exposed to religous gibberish everyday. When we flip the channel, India is promoting Science Safari through NatGeo. I shouldn`t even begin to compare but it is humiliating. Science has been given a bad name since the days of Galileo. There`s nothing we can do except hope that one day this world will be secular and we can actually progress as a species. I highly recommend you to watch An Inconvenient Truth a documentary by Al Gore. He was one who was moved by his science teacher and i believe he will change a lot of minds. Got an oscar for it too. One needs to do the same level of work to promote evolution as creationism destroys the one powerful thing that gives us an edge over other species... the human mind.

Re: # 26

bulleya:

Sure economics is important. But the author asserts that if you have to do science then do it in a way that makes it enjoyable. What`s wrong with that?

...students tend to study what can offer them the best jobs and means of living.......this is specifically true in third world countries......it is only in first world countries, where students can venture out into fields where they may achieve glory or may end up jobless......fields like drama, theatre, language and pure sciences.......

........if one is truly going to look at it from a philosophical view, then there is something even more important than science, which leads to the true development of a society.....a study of art, literature, sociology, etc. is even superior to science in defining and achieving social progress........

yet how many people study art, literature, language etc. in pakistan (or india)........

..........so within sciences, very few pakistanis will turn to pure sciences.........for the simple reason that what in the world are they going to do with such a degree.........until and unless, they can go to the Ph.D level.........which few can......

......my bachelors degree is in a field related to math......quite a difficult field, as it was connected to computational fluid dynamics..........with this degree, i was unable to get a job.......at best, the computer skills i picked up (which had nothing to do with the maths part) helped.........but no one wanted to hire a, ``mathmetician.``........

.......all my graduate work, however is in comp sci......with this degree, i had more job offers than i knew what to do with......even though i found it to be an easier field as far as academics go...........

......mathematics is about as pure a scientific field as there is.........and comp. sci is about as applied a scientific field as there is..........in fact, many people don`t even consider comp. sci a scientific field, since there can really be no, ``pure`` research in this field - at least on the software side..........

however, comp. sci, medicine, electrical engg and various other fields where pure sciences are applied, is where the jobs are........and in pakistan, the highest merit lists are in the medical and engg colleges........have been and always will be.......far far higher than any religious institution or arts college or pure sciences field........

i think it has more to do with economics of getting a job than with any love or hate for science..........

Re #24,

I didn`t mean to imply that every scientist is an emotional cripple. Most probably know how to balance their scientific mindset with emotional intelligence. I just want to point out that scientific mindset should not be promoted exclusively at the expense of other skills.

Re #24 cont.

Btw, did you even read the article you linked to?

It starts as,
``Einstein was a great scientist, in fact the greatest after Newton. But his love life was as mundane and lackluster as that of any ordinary, immature, wayward, and irresponsible person. He wanted love and was able to reciprocate for a time but wouldn’t like the responsibility of any lasting relationship. He would romanticize his feelings of love from a distance, in his love letters, for example, but failed to keep them steady and stable for any length of time. Probably highly creative persons need all their time and minds for their creative work and marriage and steady relationships are only a bothersome appendage; that probably was the reason that Newton remained unmarried all his life. ``

#21# Shah2

He is definitely welcome in India.
But you are wrong with the aspect of two nation theory. If he returns (yes RETURNS), what he would prove wrong will be SIX nation theory before Pak completes SIX decades. You must be planning to drive him here by now!
See, Dr Saheb, you don`t have to visit even a Madarsa in the borderlands to be declared a traitor or blasphemous! They have build one in the Chowkair!

Samar

#24#BJ
#27#Khurram

Where we are most likely to find tender, emotional beings?

Pakistani Madarsas!

Samar

Re: # 31 zeemax, I have no clue since I have never studied there.
BUt here is my guess (based on my students figures): pure MSC in IITs is a straight 5 year course - they do not have BSc. On an average in the Maths, Phys, Chem they produce some 150 in each institute=750. Hod knows how many more from the other universities in thec ountry.

But that is besides the point.

For any progress to be made you need two things

(a) thinking/theory
(b) hands

Pure sciences enable the development of fundemental knowledge, whikst the others are applied. If you rely solely on applied sciences, you end up using knowledge developed by others....

I will develop this further...got to catch my train back to Euston