Fight Hudood, Protect Women

#300 by tahmed32

Can you sum up what the author is saying and what zahraJ is saying?

I need this because I don`t know what`s the point. The hudood ordinance has already been amended a few months ago with regard to rape .. so what next are they proposing?

#298 Tauheed sahib

I agree about the scourge of ``bride burning`` and fetus-killing, although one may disagree about their extent. But please remember, unlike Hudood, these are not state-sanctioned. (Thanks for mentioning these, I have been thinking of penning a piece on related topics and will get around to it on ``one of these days``! :) )

In your second paragraph, you say not much different from what I said - but you prefer different semantics. Semantics do not change the reality.

zeemax: you cant simply wave off what zahraj or the author are saying by calling it ``fashionable``. the fact is that women in pakistan are at the forefront of in the battle against oppression of poor women in pakistan, in the streets, in the courts, and what zahraj and the author are saying reflects the same struggle on chowk.

only a baigharat people would lightly take the oppression of women - whether in the form of hadood laws, or harassment in other forms.

#298 by tahmed32

tahmed .. you have to understand that this liar bjkumar is now desperate after having fallen from his lofty imagined perch to the status of a proven liar and a plagiarist and having become a pariah (with no thanks to me) so all he can do is try to gain attention with arjun-like tactics .. and with that the best he can become is another arjun who`s the most ignored interactor on chowk.

So ... I pity bjkumar ... so should you ...

bjkumar: if pakistani women from poor families suffer under hadood, then indian women from poor families suffer due to ``bride burnings``, and millions of unborn females from middle class families never are allowed to develop beyond the fetus stage.

and the only reality this arjun-like talk of pakistani being refused visas points to is the ill-wishes and spite that too many indian men display on chowk. dont fall to their level, and see the world the way it is - while no doubt there is greater security concern when it comes to travellers from muslim countries, the broader reality is very different from this.

#287
Who is the author?

(You did not write it yourself, by any chance?) :)

#293 by tahmed32

tahmed ... always beware of munafiqs like teshah who try to defame Islam by lies ..

#292 by tahmed32

If you`re a patriot, you would know what I`m saying.

CJs dismissal had nothing to do with the Mukhtaran case. I quoted it just to shame the autor and begum ZehraJ who don`t know diddly squat about what`s really wrong with this country. They`re all shedding crocodile tears because it is fashionable for begmaat.

CJ`s dismissal is about a pending unpublicised case before him about president holding two offices on which he was about to decide ... that`s why all this haste.

#290 Tauheed sahib

I KNEW it will get to you. :)

It is true that the Indians (without being distinguished from the Pakistanis) have been made into caricatures for many past decades in the west. People would not think of India without thinking of serpents, elephants, fakirs, maharajas and so forth. Most of us ``videshis`` have encountered those moments and often resented those - unless those were hilarious.

But dear sir, you KNOW that is not the case any more. Especially in the post-9/11 world, the ``Westerners`` are indeed making more and more of a distinction between the Pakistanis and the Indians - be it in granting visa, in admission to colleges, in differing treatment at airports, in sending out questioning letters, in countless other ways.

All that talk about ``frontline ally`` and other such stuff is perhaps positive for the morale - but does not change the stark reality!

Just like the stark reality stays unchanged for the vast minorities in Pakistan.

And for its women - struggling under the Hudood!

zeemax #283 well caught!! teshah had fired off a toola about islam. :-)

zeemax: what makes you think that the CJ dismissal has anything to do with the mukhtaran mai case?

and, unless you are a mind reader, you are merely making a convenient assumption in saying that zahraj is shedding ``crocodile tears`` over the plight of poor women in pakistan.

#289 by bjkumar

Shut up idiot plagiarist and proven liar.

bjkumar: actually, is the appus of india whose weird accents and obsequious ways are in the source of jokes in the west. pakistanis may be many things, but obsequious little doormats we are not.

#288

[ Power and control are the key perhaps]

There is a difference, though. In case of the Pakistani practice of Islam, it is the LACK OF power, and the lack of control - the utter helplessness and impotence - which is driving this ``introspection``.

For example: how would one feel as a Pakistani when one sees the contrast:

(1) tales of those ``golden days`` of Islam (real or imagined) contrasted with the present day realities.

(2) being treated like a doormat by every power in the world - be it the US, the Russians, the Chinese, and now (more and more) the Indians.

So the present crop of the Ummah takes all the frustrations out on its own people, in the following order:

(a) Beating up on tthe Hindus or Sikhs, where available - but less so - because those creatures are nearly extinct now in the land of the Pure. (Somehow, damaging shrines just does not get that ``We are the Ummah...`` mood going the same way!)

(b) Beating up on the Christians - wherever one could find them - also a shrinking population for understandable reasons.

(c) Beating up on some other helpless minorities - especially the Ahmediyas.

(d) After running out of the above, getting to the more sizeable minorities - for example, the Shias.

(e) Even if one runs out of all of the above, there are always the staple diet available for the Ummah - the fair maidens of the land of the Pure - the ever so willing of the masses - to get mass raped, to drink yellow beverage served at close range, and to willingly accept the other sacrifices necessary for the ``cause of the Ummah``!

If one is a Pakistani khaki, of course, Kya kehne!

There is the whole population handy - any and every Pakistani to pick from - to kick, to rape, to crush, or to generally use like a brush!

Re: # 237

please see

#208 by

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on March 9, 2007 12:33pm PT
Re: # 198

O Wheel O Time, greetings friend.

Your #198 is interesting. Interpreted another way are you suggesting that there is a growth of papacy and or brahminism within Islam? Your para 2, indicates that this might be the case.

BY brahminism I mean interpreters of religion and texts associated with it.

This happens with all religions. Esp when they become complex and convoluted. Where every word is debated and interpreted to kingdom come. Hair splitting comes to mind. What was simple, and straight forward is no longer the case. Since everyone wants their flavour on the interpretation. The powerful, use ``learned people`` to reinforce their prejuidices and flavours. The more the number in this group, the greater the convolutions and contortions, and reliance on obscure sources. This then becomes a self-fulfilling cycle.

Would you not agree?


and indeed Wheel o Time`s earlier messages and mine! Power and control are the key perhpas

Dear Pakis,

For a change, enjoy some URDU poetry and try to figure out what and why it laments about you.

Ghulami ko barkat samajhne lage
Asiron ko aisi rihai n de

Khatawar samjhegi duniya tujhe
tu itni jiyada safai n de

Samar