Fight Hudood, Protect Women

#257 by hamidm2

Hamidm Mian, I`m glad that eating the flesh of the only animals on earth who eat their own excrement (apart from hindoos) has done you and your off-spring plenty nutritious good ... !

#250 by nasah

may be this will be the last straw that will break this stupid camel of a man`s back this time.

It should be indeed the last straw. But given the history of this country, I doubt it. It`ll take some more time. It is a vicious blow though.

kaalchakra (#209):

“Limitless rights” is a loaded term, so I’ll avoid it.

Issue here is a much simpler one: It should not be a crime for an Ahamdi to consider himself a Muslim, to peacefully practice Islam. Laws that penalize Ahmadis as such are unjust and unfair.

It should be easy to agree on such a simple idea ... without getting into philosophical discussions. No??

Re: # 253

Dear Sattar - What is the relation between hudood and ahmadi movement ? Can women be protected by understanding the nuances of Ahmadi movement? I understand that you were responding to KC, but I am curious. Please keep your response succinct.

Regards.

Re: # 254

zahraj,

you ask: ``Can women be protected by understanding the nuances of Ahmadi movement?``

.... the answer is `yes` ! ........ how? ....... because ahmedis and pigs are in the same category as women as far as good muslims and their laws are concerned ......... once you understand why al-lah mian and his prophet, muhammad mian, hate the ahmedi and poor porky, you will come to understand the woman`s predicament ......... it is really that simple

p.s i apologize to porky for comparing him to women and ahmedis

Re: # 255

Hamidm - Sorry I have to ignore the flame bait since it did not make much sense. Please grow up :)

Best Wishes

Abu #169, 170:

You are suggesting that Ahmadis preaching Islam do “injustice to uneducated masses”. What is the basis of this claim? Was Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) preaching tauheed to “uneducated masses” doing injustice to them?

No one owns Islam. A believer has the right to peacefully preach his faith. Apparently you yourself are forgetting the practice of the Prophet of Islam (pbuh).

I am comfortable with my faith in Islam and see no reason to oppress anyone on any basis. Perhaps that’s the difference between you and me.

You attempt to validate persecution of Ahamdis by suggesting that we don’t live in a perfect world. Well, neither did kuffar of Mecca! Does that make persecution of early Muslims acceptable to you?

Ahmadis believe in Allah Almighty, Quran, prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and all articles of faith prescribed in Quran. A person may come up his own articles of faith … including one about Prophet Issa (pbuh) residing in the sky … and that’s his own choice. However, this person has no right to force his belief on others. Similarly, you or the government of Pakistan have no right to impose their understanding of Islam on Ahamdis.

Ahmadi-Muslim community continues to strive within legal constraints in Pakistan. Draconian laws will get dismantled when the time is right, when Allah wills. However, it is important to realize that persecution of Ahmadis is squarely against teachings of Islam and practices of dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

And finally, you can probably try to make your point without hurling abuses at Yasser. It only undermines your own viewpoint.

Re: # 252

sattar mian,

`` it is important to realize that persecution of Ahmadis is squarely against teachings of Islam and practices of dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). `` ........... good try ! ....... my heart goes out to you and i wish you well ......... but that is exactly what women and pigs have been saying all along and we have yet to recognize women as people and pork chops as halal .........

....... i would be willing to give up fighting for porky`s rights if `they` recognize you and women as regular human beings .........

Re: # 257

Hamidm - Despite the fact that you have been in the US for sometime, none of your interacts reflect an enlightened man. What a disappointment! Your environment does not seem to impact your thinking. On certain boards you talk about Hoor and Khawateen Digest, whereas on others you are trying to score some brownie points in some lame subject area.

Perhaps you have been carrying the baggage from the roots for way too long. I suggest getting rid of it piece by piece and try to be a new man. You may be pleasantly surprised on the developments :)

No, it`s never too late to see the world from a different angle. Please no excuses.

Regards,
Z

Re: # 270

zahraj,

........... i never claimed to be an enlightened man (even though some devotees say they have seen a halo over my head) and i am perfectly happy being just the way i am - really too old to change ......... in any case, being in the us has nothing to do with enlightenment - just look at jerry falwell, paris hilton and the guys on jackass who were born and raised here .......... and what is wrong with hoor and khawateen digest ?...... they are just as good as mills and boon and that danielle steele stuff that you probably cry over - my mother, god bless her soul, used to read them all the time (and yes, she too cried) ........... and there is nothing wrong with crying - mrs hamidm cried when et wanted to go home, and i cry ever time i see those nasty pictures posted by bjkumar ...........

......... but i do believe that muslim women bear a large part of the blame for their own miserable condition ............ as long as they continue to defend the horrible practices of their faith they deserve what they get - they are like jews on the way to the oven defending nazism .......... if you want to be a good muslima then take your beating like a woman and stop whining ..........

Re: # 274

Dear Qibla Hamidm - You mistook my post. You can also convey your stance by being direct. There is no need to always beat around the bush to make a point. It`s real annoying. See, Mrs Hamidm may withstand that style but the rest of the womenkind do not have to bear that :)

And I am sorry to disappoint that I never ever cried on any nonsense and bull$hit (pardon my farsi) in M&B. By the way, my mother did not let me go near one till I was in my late teens :) I have never developed a taste for that nonsense.

In the end, I do not know if it matters to all women to be good muslimas or christians or hindus or jews.....What matters is to be able to lead a life of one`s choice where options, equal rights, and opportunities are in abundance.

I appreciate your concerns for the womenkind and think that I understand where you are coming from metaphorically. Still, by women crying out loud on the issue of hudood is not going to resolve that issue. That was my initial stance. You cannot change the way Islamic countries function. A man may be the most debauch and characterless creature, but that society will not penalize him for a wrongdoing but will put a poor woman in jail for being raped. That to me requires a huge change in the thinking process of that society. And honestly speaking, proper a$$ whipping of the men in power who continue to let these things happen. There is no application of Islamic law in that case. That in itself is hypocrisy among the Muslims. As a result, the social fabric keeps on getting weak and weaker.

The fact that the law and order system in Pakistan allowed a lunatic to be out, inspite of being a killer of many women (regardless of their outlook towards life) tells you a lot. Well, probably the next Chief Justice of Pakistan needs to be a real woman. Hopefuly, President Musharraf will find another woman leader to come forward and then feed her to the ba$tards.

Just make sure you cover your women well when you visit Pakistan the next time. Your crazy fellow men are no longer human beings. The fanatic ba$tards have taken very ugly shape.

Re: # 270

zahraj,

........... i never claimed to be an enlightened man (even though some devotees say they have seen a halo over my head) and i am perfectly happy being just the way i am - really too old to change ......... in any case, being in the us has nothing to do with enlightenment - just look at jerry falwell, paris hilton and the guys on jackass who were born and raised here .......... and what is wrong with hoor and khawateen digest ?...... they are just as good as mills and boon and that danielle steele stuff that you probably cry over - my mother, god bless her soul, used to read them all the time (and yes, she too cried) ........... and there is nothing wrong with crying - mrs hamidm cried when et wanted to go home, and i cry ever time i see those nasty pictures posted by bjkumar ...........

......... but i do believe that muslim women bear a large part of the blame for their own miserable condition ............ as long as they continue to defend the horrible practices of their faith they deserve what they get - they are like jews on the way to the oven defending nazism .......... if you want to be a good muslima then take your beating like a woman and stop whining ..........

#247 by tahmed32

[#244 so ``islam is evil and pakistan is doomed.``

this is the recurring delusion beyond which you are incapable of going. a kind of an infinite loop in a java program until someone mercifully presses the break key. take a tea break.]

I`m delusionel, eh?

So you believe that the premise on which Pakistan was built is a true one - that Muslims are better people than Hindus, at least as far as it relates to the treatment of minorities?

Let me know.

``the general (a paid servant of one branch of the executive) fired the Chief Justice of Pakistan yesterday (the head of a separate branch of government whose, in any civilized society, would be untouchable by the executive, let alone a tinpot ruler who violated the sacred trust a nation places on its military to defend the nation, not use it to gain power himself)!! ``(tahmed)

right tahmed -- of course for a prostitute like Mushrraf any hint of celibacy of CJSC Iftikhar Choudry will be a blatant ``misconduct`` -- the crappy dictator is an incorrigible gungadeen -- craps in his khaki pants before the Chastising Cheney -- a farting foreigner -- who chewed him up and spit on him for not servicing his American clients their dollars worth -- but treats his own native politicians and justices like doormats -- may be this will be the last straw that will break this stupid camel of a man`s back this time.

The audacity of a corrupt to the bone criminal sepoy who hijacked an elected government at gunpoint and self-coronated himself as the `president` of the country -- calling the honesty of a first independent CJ of Pakistan -- a ``misconduct``! --

The army man has just committed another hijacking -- this time of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. `Enlightened moderation` my foot -- Musharraf is a shameless imposter.

hasanmahmood (#104, 191):

I cited Quranic references to suggest that punishment of lashes applies to fornication, as well as adultery (#127).

Quranic requirement of having witnesses suggests that in order to be punished, these sexual acts have to be carried out in open view, in an offending manner. What consenting people do in privacy is not punishable by lashes.

zeena (#157):

Your attempt to undermine kulharee’s view by labeling him as a “mirzai” speaks more about you than anything else.

Mantolives (#166):

Right you are. As someone pointed out, majority rule should not become mob rule. This distinction is often lost on fanatics.

zeemax #245 no doubt the hadood laws have resulted in the rape and/or harrassment of women by tens of thousands of women (many at the hands of the thana police itself) whose only ``crime`` is that they are poor and powerless.

what makes me mad is that not one policeman has been charged with anything. no one political leader has called for heads to roll, public executions to take place. this is baigharati and immorality of the highest order. and the religous parties are in cahoots with the rapists themselves with their campaign against the hadood laws.