Fight Hudood, Protect Women

Re: # 127

ohh aaayyaa aykk or mirzayii aayyaa....hahahahahaha..yarr yeahh mirzayii bhii ajeeb maqlooq hayy. Koii baatt karayy na karayy..koii moonhh lagayeyy naa lagayeyy..inkoo badtameez bachoon kii tarahh beachh mein zaroor koodna hayy..Abbaayy khabeesoon.. we are discussin Islam here, its like discussing beef with hindooss..whither away in ur delusions. So have u guys decided yet whether Mirza was Prophet, Messiah or Reviver, yet? Or maybe he was donald duck?

Abu, there are several weaknesses in your arguments …

#106: What “100% Pakistanis believe” is irrelevant here. It does not support your views in any sensible manner. For example, majority of world population believes that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an imposter. So where does this reasoning lead you?

(On a different note: A person`s belief is his business. However imprisoning an Ahmadi for considering himself a Muslim is unfair and unjust.)

#110: You are overlooking the issue of recorded ahadith contradicting Quran. Islamic viewpoint should render such ahadith as erroneous.

#124: A law made through democratic process does not necessarily make this law just and fair. For example, discrimination against African-Americans was unjust and unfair, regardless of popular support it once enjoyed.

Re: # 130

As a matter of principle i don`t discuss religion and politics with morons but i`ll indulge u nevertheless. If according to your point of view a law is unfair, unjust and draconian then there is a process available in civilized world. That process is again a democratic one. Problem with you qadiyanis is that you are hoping and praying for qadiyani martial law dictator who can negate and nullify the law of the land by the stroke of his pen, because democracy doesnt suit u one bit. That ain`t happenin however.

Bhaii rayeyy aamaa(popular opinion) hamwarr karoo..loggon koo apnayy mazhabb parr qayill karoo daleel sayy..yeahii aykk tareeqa hayy, wohh honna nahii kyonkayy, jahil sayy jahil muslaman bhii khatm-e-nabowat kayy mamlayy mein wazayh hay.

Your annoyance and beef is with 98% majority of Muslim ummah. How come they have declared you as NON_Muslims when you ARE infact NON-Muslims? there is no resolution for this except that u see a head doctor, its too late for mirza kyonkayy wohh jahanum raseed hoa, but there is still hope for u, provided that u get ur head out of ur arse, which is again a tall task but Allama iqbal marhoom farma gayeyy heinn...paywasta reh shajar sayy umeed-e-bahar rakh.

looks like most interactors here have accepted and agree that islamic justice is flawed. the fight is about who to blame..quoran, hadith, 1973 constitution or the mirzais.

Re #128,
``Do you consider the Quran (+something) the final arbiter of what a Muslim should do. If so, then Quran (+something) cannot be made subject to individual-level interpretation``

There is always interpretation. Even a `literal` reading (if possible) is human interpretation.
The real question is who has the authority to interpret? When collective decisions are required authority is needed. This problem is not unique to Islam.

Different communities have come up with different solutions for this. Authority has been vested in an institution - e.g. the Catholic Church. Or a hereditary leader - e.g. the Aga Khan.

The traditional Sunni solution has been to vest the authority in an informal group of scholars, legtimized by public approval, and enforced by the state. It is not a clearly defined process.

There is also the modernist view, not practiced anywhere, that authority remains with each believer but is voluntarily delegated to elected representatives i.e. a parliament.

Re: # 115

Urstruly - Let`s stick to my earlier question. Can you provide some quotations from the Quran on rape and its penalty? What should be done when rape is hidden under the garb of adultery? Where`s the fine line? Sorry you could not read the underlying sarcasm in my previous post. You cannot be blamed for your misunderstanding since you are doing an exceptionally great job in further convoluting the concept. By the way, you should fire the clergyman who is teaching your innocent mind all these things. He is not doing a good job. Stay away from their company!

Re: # 132

Jang or Jung - It`s not about who to blame. It`s about who to assign the responsibility of decipherng the convoluted religious myths, disgusting cultural practices, and abhorrable results. And you will realize that it`s a huge undertaking :)

``There is also the modernist view, not practiced anywhere, that authority remains with each believer but is voluntarily delegated to elected representatives i.e. a parliament.``

The modern day Caliphate or Islamofascism in other words.

Abu (#131)

Ummah may consider Ahmadis non-Muslims … that’s their choice. However, making it a crime for an Ahmadi to practice Islam is beneath dignity.

You seem to think that persecuting others is alright as long as it is done “legally”.

Incidentally, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and early Muslims too were persecuted for their faith in Islam. Your reasoning leads one to conclude that this persecution was justified as it was carried out within confines of then-existing laws and codes.

+++

“98% Muslims” should believe whatever makes sense to them. Issue here is this majority forcing its beliefs on others. This is where ummah’s hateful attitude, and your support for this attitude, become evident.

+++

And BTW, I too believe in Khatam-e-Nabuwat, since it is mentioned in Quran! Ahem, ahem.

Rest of your post is hateful, senseless rambling … and is best ignored.

Re #136, ``The modern day Caliphate or Islamofascism in other words.``

It is only fascist if it treats non-mulims unequally or violates their basic rights.

No it is fascist because a parliament is supposed to derive the authority of governing people (muslim and nonmuslim) on the basis of a religious document. On top of that, it is a horrid assertion to advocate a medieval text to be adopted by the premium law making body of a State.

Re: # 137
Let me say this for the record. They shouldnt be persecuted for being qadiyanis, they should be equal citizens, in return they should not propogate qadiyaniyat with the label of Islam. But the problem is that noone plays by the rules. If you guys had it wouldn`t have come to that. This law was passed in 1973, in case u dodnt remember pakistan came in to existance in 1947 so we were patient for quite sometime with ur antics. This happened because you guys werent being nice, let it be a lesson for future, play nice nice and u`ll be treated fairly.

Abu,

How can Ahmadis be equal citizens if they are not allowed to peacefully preach their faith? There is a name for it. It’s called second-class citizens.

But get this ...

Your response matches the one given by kuffar to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions. Kuffar mainly wanted Muslims to stop preaching their faith in Islam … or to continue being persecuted. Parallels here are amazing.

You criticize Ahamdis by claiming that ”no one plays by the rules”. Whose rules are you talking about? Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) play by the rules? Was he (pbuh) also not being ``nice`` when he proclaimed belief in One God?

How is an Ahmadi claiming to be a Muslim not being nice?

Do you see your hypocrisy?

#129

lol.......EXCELLENT.

khurram (#138),

Judging by ummah’s tendencies, it would indeed be Islamofascism. Simply review #140 from a ``custodian of faith`` for a glimpse.

I think Raw_Dust is on to something here ...

Re: # 141

here u go with ur crying again....``sunnis stole my candy......tsk tsk tsk``. Your insinuation that there is a parallel between the followers of Mirza ghulam ahmed qadiyani and Muslims in Arabia is laughable. I told u before, finality of the Prophet-hood which ends Muhammad PBUH is a basic creed of our faith. Why can`t u guys be like bahai`s, if you have lost ur mind and you have then at least check urself in the institution. Forget about pakistan, you have all the freedom in the world to propogate Qadiyaniyat here in west, how come Christian science monitor or any other publication mentions you as a phenomenon, rather they list that 34,000 muslims every year comes within the folds of OUR religion just in USA.

No one is letting you do anything Pakistan, who is stopping you from propogating here in states? what do you have to show for it. Fact of the matter is that Mirza first claimed that he was getting revelation from Allah swt, when people asked what is that revelation, any surahs or anything he had made some cocka mimi bullshit which became a laughing stock, then he said oh i was mistaking i m not a prophet i m actually messiah, that obviosuly couldnt fly either, then he said ohh can i at least be a reviver then? which is what his son now believes in the lahori group. You see there is just too much material here for comedy for anyone to take this character seriously. Your problem is not mullahs or sunnis, its the stupidity which is at the core of the message of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani. You are barking at the wrong tree sattariyaa