What is it going to take to have a Clean Bombay?

Re: # 40
No one thinks it shouldn`t improve. Show me where I said that, or explain yourself. A lot of people think it`s so good, it can`t improve.
It gives me no pleasure that Bombay is so dirty, but I am tired of excuses. This population hasn`t suddenly landed in the last hour, there has been enough time and there is enough money to plan for it.There is a lack of civic and political will. If people are happy to live in muck, why should politicians care?

Re: # 48
I dont know.I think we can rank cities on basis of
1) infrastructure
2) weather
3)immigrant friendliness
4)Foodie friendliness
5)employability...presence of big businesses
5)cleanliness
6)greenery
7) nightlife
8)cosmopolitan nature
9)law n order
10) Cost of living
11) proximity to vacation spots
hmm?

You cannot have better Mumbai and rest of India stinking. Mumbai`s problem is exactly that. It is part of India. For less than a 1000 Rupees you can come from anywhere in India to Mumbai. India probably needs cheap railways but as long as they are cheap no metropolis can ever be clean. Bhaiyya culture of Paan chabaaoing, spitting, shitting etc is not going to go away. And Bhaiyyas cannot be wished away. Anywhere you go Bhaiyyas are there. My prescription: make Indian Railways expensive, impose city-dweller permit (call it visa or whatever), anyone using any public property (especially the roads) should be made to pay ``rent`` and heavy fine of bad public hygiene. None of these is going to happen. I laugh when people like Vilasrao talk about making Mumbai a Shanghai.

Re: # 51

What bothers me more is when so-called educated and middle class people litter and trash the city. Such people should get more hrash treatment than Bhaiyyas and Biharis who follow their ``village instincts.``

I was in Kolkata in Nov 06. I stayed near my old home (near MG Rd metro station). I visited Bhawanipore. I came by train so I saw Howrah Station. None of these places have changed form what they were in 89 when I left Kolkata. I would not say Kolkata is any cleaner than Mumbai.

Internal passport may not be possible but some kind of anti-vagrancy laws should be there. In Mumbai autorickshaws are not permitted south of Bandra. People do not see such restriction as unreasonable. I do not see why anti-vagrancy laws cannot be enacted. Such laws may be already there. May be these needs to applied strictly. Defecating in public places should be punishable by RI.

Re: # 53
I`m sorry but the long line of people defecating with the backs to the train seems almost unique..in other cities people at least try to hide. The streets of Dharavi at 5:30 am are occupied by people squatting in long lines on either side of the road while the rest of the world acts like nothing is happening. When did you see that in Delhi or Calcutta?

Re: # 54

So now Dharavi = Bombay.

Re: # 55
so it isn`t part of Bombay now? You cannot claim only the parts of Bombay that you like and disown the others. This is just the attitude I`m talking about. I have seen more of South Bombay than a lot of people. And I`m sorry, most of it is still dirty. I also saw this mass defecation in large parts of Santa Cruz. People complain about the ``lower classes`` being dirty, but they cannot live without construction workers and maids-how many of these people have access to clean toilets? Forget about maids actually, in public hospitals as a doctor, I did not have access to clean toilets.
Other cities at least acknowledge it is an issue, I hear people in Calcutta saying it`s dirty but I love it anyway. In Bombay you hear, it`s not dirty, it`s wonderful. And I am not talking about the high profile Shobha Des of the world who participate in ``clean city`; campaigns, I find the middle classes completely uninterested.
I`ll give you some time too to come up with a democratic country that restricts movement to cities and has internal passports.

Re: # 56

NB

I don`t support the system of internal passports or any form of communism, like people in some states of India..

I completely agree that middle-class apathy is a huge problem. Read my posts and you will see that.

You show absolutely zero objectivity when it comes to Calcutta. Einsteinwallah called you out about how the dirty parts of the city remain dirty and you launch a tirade against Bombay in response.

Re: # 57, I`m sorry, I thought the article was about Bombay. I was not aware there was a competition, in which case the whole of India would fail miserably. Calcutta is not cleaner than the late 90s, but it is way cleaner than the 80s. I have no idea when Einsteinwallah left. He did not call me out, as you put it, he gave his own opinions. Howrah station still is and remains filthy, but you don`t even see as many bare bottoms going into Howrah of a morning as you do going into Bombay.
You also don`t see people spitting as much anywhere else, and I really don`t know why.

Re: # 58

Try proposing some solutions for Bombay instead of bringing in your hatred and envy. Something constructive would help.

Re: # 58
I just saw Einsteinwallah said he left in 1989. I think then he is wrong. I have an aunt in Bhawanipore, so I know. However, if he has not visited for 17 years, and then visits as an NRI, he will see no change, because it is still dirty,but his standards will have changed as a result of having lived away from India for so long. It doesn`t help to jump to Bombay`s defence as you are doing. It is inexcusable that a city that fancies itself as equal to New York, no shining star of cleanliness itself, allows itself to wallow in this filth.

Re: # 57

Ajay78,

I do agree with NB regarding Calcutta. As mentioned is my previous post, there has
been some effort to clean up the city. Is it still filthy ? Of course it is. But the changes
are visible to the discerning (and perhaps forgiving) eye.

I have been to Bombay only as a visitor, so cannot offer a meaningful comparison. But
Delhi is definitely a cleaner city that both Bombay and Calcutta.

Einsteinwallah #51,

Making Indian railways expensive just to keep people out of Bombay and imposing
internal visa laws are both rather draconian measures. Imposing tougher penalties
and tightening littering laws are both do-able.

Re: # 60

Calcutta was a dump, and will remain a dump for a long time to come. Nothing will change.

Yes, whatwill change the city- is if the refugees who turned up post 1971 are sent back packing to their country of origin and let them sort out their political problem there.

1971 was the year when calcutta started going down hill rapidly,IMHO

The comparison btw Calcutta and Bombay is not good. Calcutta was the numero uno in pre-47 India but Bombay replaced Calcutta as the magnet of Indian peoples. Calcutta is still a Bengali city whereas Bombay - despite the high-phase of Marathi chavs - is a pan-Indian city. In the meanwhile Pune was developed as San Jose of Bombay which is quiet, feel-good city.

We shud take the influx of migrants as given, including the fortune seeking rural folk who`d like to see the glitter of the megapolis. We cant question that. If we remember even Amitabh Bachchan slept on the footpaths of Marine Drive for days b4 he found someplace to sleep. Like all he too enjoyed the the view of the golden city.

When I last saw Calcutta, it had still the smoke belching 1970-buses on its roads. Taxis are no different; almost run by Biharis. The most shaming relic of the Raj-era is the hand-pulled rickshaws. The footpaths of the downtown Calcutta are swmaped by food-vendors during lucnh hours who sell foods of Bihar, Bengal, North India, Punjabi & Southern all 4 less than Rs. 10! Even people from big offices eat food from footpaths.

We have police in white dress who are very sober (may be my misconception). We have a placard selling shop in Park Street (paying huge rent to sell placards? Unless there`re big bucks they cant maintain a shop in Park Street. So sloganbajee is the major pastime of Calcuttans). We see impropmtu meetings of employee leaders during luch-breaks who talk abt imperialism, Coca Cola and link these things/companies to their plight! The gatherings cud be as low as 4-5 people! We have India Musuem with priceless artefacts with almost no visitors from other parts of India. We see people taking baths on footpaths. They still use Lifebuoy bath soap and use Sunlight for washing clothes (relics of old Indian consumer items). I can see Calcutta as London occupied by subaltern Bengalis and Biharis .

Bombay on the other hand is thriving with Gujarati businessmen contributing seamlessly to the social and business life of the city. (One interactor reeled out the contribution of Bombay to the revenues of India). Marathis and south Indians are good clerks and managers. Whereas Bengalis are very good executives but they have bad clerks. Despite all the shortcomings as a city with many balck spots, Bombay is still the India`s international city.

Intolerance and Shiv Sena spoiled the liberal name of Bombay. Marathi chavs can make it better if they think thet Bombay is the Indian city than it`s a Marathi city. Some years back the snaps of Shiv Sena pricks bashing the Biharis who came to write exams for railway jobs. Shiv Sena was as usual proved to be a kameena kutteys.

Even the mainstream Marathis made a change that`s simple but significant in terms of the outlook. I dont think it`s Shiv Sena behind this. The Bombay police use to have a yellow band on the caps of police. Now it`s replcaed by saffron bands indicating the change of outlook. This change is part of saffronisation of Bombay police. The Marathi backward journey is official. As I said, despite all this, Bombay is still the pan-Indian city.

#52 now you are getting real irritating...for the record, i ALWAYS spit my paan in the gutter or nalla. enough with your silly convent-educated discomfort at our national culture and pasttime, or i will get real angry. i argue that your automobile-induced pollution and waste from its old tires is far more hazardous than my perfectly bio-degradable pan-spittle (angry wala icon).