On Zillae Huma Usman

Zahra, not that you need to hear this, but I can`t help feeling bad for what you`ve had to go through here. I hope (know!) you can look past a few bad apples. Good luck and have a good weekend.

zeemax, shame on you ... you should be forced to offer tahajjud for one week as a punishment ...

Tahmed Sahab,

There are 3 main issues that Sattar and the ilk rave and rant about that I have addressed numerous times on different boards but no matter what the topic at hand is they start playing the victim card and how sunnis stole their candy-bag. I mean the article can be about cricket, aborted fetuses in India or Japan’s economic revival, one way or the other they will start nagging about the persecution of Qadiyanis in Pakistan. Please indulge me as I attempt to address those 3 issues again for the millionth time:

1. Persecution of Qadiyanis because of their faith:

I have said numerous times that citizens of Pakistan should not be persecuted on the basis of their religion, caste, creed, sex, sect or SOCIAL CLASS etc. No one and I mean no one should be persecuted for being qadiyani as long as they follow the law of the land (I will elaborate on that later in the 3rd bullet point). My contention however is that people in Pakistan are not persecuted for being qadiyanis. IF they are persecuted THEN they are persecuted for not being rich or not having a chacha or mama in Pakistan Army. I assure you if you have access to Tariq Aziz who is a well known qadiyani and is the principal sect. of General Pervaiz Musharaf THE GREAT, you can and will get away with murder. You can be the most devout sunni in Pakistan but if you are poor and aren’t related or know the RIGHT people, the oppressors of Pakistan will molest you, persecute you, rape you and your women in front of the whole pind and the administration will sit idly by enjoying it like it’s a movie. Poor women who are being Kari’d thru out sind, or killed in nwfp or raped by ELDERS in Punjab, do you think they are all qadiyanis? Persecution is directly related to the social class.

2. Qadiyani’s insistence that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed qadiyani is the Messanger of Allah swt, henceforth All his descendents are Muslims.


As matter of principle and for the sake of argument I have a major problem with that insistence. It’s like saying I am good looking but I am also hindu. Bhai daykhein aysa nahii hotta. Har mazhab mein daqlayy kii kuch sharayiit kuch huoood-0-quyood hotti hein, Islam is not unique in that perspective. I agree with your notion, what is this fascination with being called Muslims anyway? Agla aapkoo moonh nahii laga raha, dhutkaarr raaha hay, abb bayghyraatoon orr bayhayaoon kii tarahh ghussayy challayy aarahayy hein. If the argument is that Mirza Ghulam ahmed qadiyani was the messenger of Allah then I should be allowed to ask, what was that revelation that he was recieving? What is the proof that he was in fact Prophet? In that regard I have heard nothing but rhetoric so far, “You don’t understand Arabic”, acha bhai mein nahii samajh saka Arabic. Allah swt says in Quran, “We have put a seal on Prophethood”, aapp kehtayy hein naheen wohh baatt nabi-e-kareem kii anguthi (ring) kayy barayy mein hay. Wah sahab wah. I don’t understand Arabic, Ibn-e-hajar asqalani didn’t understand Arabic, imam ibn-e-taymiyah didn’t understand Arabic, abu-bakar (RAW) didn’t understand Arabic, Ali(RAW) didn’t understand Arabic, orr too orr nabi-ekareem himself could understand Arabic, 1400 saal mein koii naa samjh saka Arabic aykk samajh sakayy too Mirza ghulam ahmed qadiyani orr sattar bhaii kayy abboo samjh sakay. Yanii pagal panayy orr baywaqoofii kii bhii koii hadd mutayan karlein huzoor. If you claim that Mirza or you or your Khaloo jaan is a prophet of Allah then you have to arrive with some sort of evidence, this however is purely an educational matter. As a matter of principle and law, no one should be persecuted because he is delusional.

3. Qadiyanis say that they are not happy with the fact that the constitution of Pakistan doesn’t let them call themselves Muslim.


Daykhein hazrat, for all intent and purpose democracy by design is a govt. Where the whims and wishes of the majority are respected and instituted. I said it earlier that as an avid steak lover I find it completely retarded that I can’t enjoy a nice juicy steak in Bombay, but the majority there have decided that beef should not be consumed because majority of them doesn’t appreciate there God being eaten. If I decide to reside in Bombay then i have to follow the law of the land. I can protest and try to change the draconian law thru process that is available under constitution, however if I do decide to break the law then I will be arrested. Now you rave and rant that its inhumane, its unfair its bigotry, for the sake of argument, FINE! What are we going to do about it? Lets try and change the hearts and minds of the people of Pakistan and make them realize with reason and proof that in fact Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani is the Prophet of Allah, if you can’t do that then you have a great opportunity here in west where the REAL Muslims are doing an excellent job of propogating their religion which is resulting in 34,000 americans converting to real Islam every year. Qadiyanis should focus in west and spread the “TRUTH” here where there is no prejudice and the venues are completely open and once they are successful to the extent where the president of USA and the prime minister blair both are qadiyanis then THEY can put pressure on Pakistan to change their laws. Sattar loves to draw a parallel between Muhammad’s (PBUH) persecution and the supposed mirza sahab and his cohorts went thru, qibla, persecution alone is not alone some kind of a magic proof of truth. David Koresh and his disciples were persecuted till they were dead, that doesn’t make him a TRUE Prophet of Allah swt. Pakistan was formed in 1947, qadiyanis were declared non-muslims in 1973. This didn’t happened overnight, there are some realities and some facts in history that we have to study before we can analyze why is that all of a sudden the majority of Pakistan felt that we need to take this drastic measure. My humble submission is that Qadiyanis weren’t playing by the rules, they were propogating qadiyaniyat to the laymen and naïve with the label of Islam and it is state’s responsibility to make sure the eternal well-being of the naïve as well. We can argue about whether eternal well being is related to one being a qadiyani or a muslim but that’s a diff. topic all together.

Zeemax -

I am sorry if you saw yourself in the ugly and dark mindset. Your interacts are way too uncouth and hypocritical for my taste and liking. I am all for different point of views and disagreements, but I won`t encourage a boor to spoil the mood. You did the same thing on another board as well under the garb of your inherent hypocrisy. You, sir, are a hypocrite through and through. There is no need to visit this board again.

Thank you!

#55 by ZahraJ

I am free to take different pieces and bring them together to pinpoint the common elements.

You don`t even know what you`re talking about.

I hope some of you can make a huge snowman of the dead legal system under discussion and punch him hard. Every time, you punch and it falls apart, you make another BIG snowman and punch it again.

Sure we`ll do all that. In the meantime you keep on tickling gora balls and leave us to worry about the Mukhtaran Mais.

Get lost.

#55 by ZahraJ

Bye and good riddance.

Guys and Gals,

Now, I am done with my commentary that was to bring together some floating thoughts to highlight the common points. Please carry on with your perspectives. After all, we all have opinions and perspectives on this issue and many surrounding aspects. I am not interested in taking everyone`s perspective and engage in a back and forth. My apologies. There is no need here. I am not here to change your opinions or change mine based on your perspectives. Sorry I was not and am not obligated to see this issue in a certain way. I am free to take different pieces and bring them together to pinpoint the common elements.

Have a wonderful weekend. It`s supposed to snow on the East Coast. I hope some of you can make a huge snowman of the dead legal system under discussion and punch him hard. Every time, you punch and it falls apart, you make another BIG snowman and punch it again. Keep on doing that till your arms are tired. It`s supposed to be a real good workout for your arms.

Khuda Hafiz.

#48 zeemax ji

The honorable lady is self talking irrelevant points to convince others how bad immigrant Pakistanis are...........and the thing that amuses me the most is the respectable lady has herself migrated from Pakistan..........quite amusing.

#51 quoin

Hey Nadia

Yes, I agree with your post and very valid points.

But I do not agree with this which you wrote about me,``[[And it?s highly intentional that this lady Zeena and the disrespectful Zeemax are busy in saving Mullahs role in this]]]

Nadia bibi

If you re read all my posts with honesty and careful insight, you will not have any difficulty in comprehending my simple and clear cut POV.

Again, I am absolutely NOT defending Mullahs, b/c mullahs have got nothing to do with this particular case.

Tell me honestly, how many Pakistani women are being killed on daily basis by Mullahs?
All my family is in Pakistan and they don`t observe purdhas, I don`t observe purdha in Pakistan, then why all this ranting against religion and Pakistan?

And like you said in your valid post why these irrelevant points by the writer of this article?

Well, at the end I am all with the validity and relevancy of the posts.

#53 samar sahib
I am not defending any religion here, I am just pointing out the valid apparent reason for this murder.

And this topic is not about Mukhtaran mai either...so, why this discussion?

I am also amazed by the irrelevant discussions by the writer on her own board.........quite amazed.

JahraJ,

You need some editing of your posts, though. I completely agree with #51 & SR.

Samar

#31,39,40,43,44 JahraJ,

Though not directly related to the article (obituary), I liked your posts. I didn`t know, poor Mukhtaran Mai is still being harassed by the so called pseudo intellectuals and the media on the pretext of extracting TRUTH so that the IT can be split, re-split, interpreted, re-interpreted and then brought before the altar of justice (?) for settling her dispute with the religo-patriarchal Paki society in the TRUEST spirit of Quran/hadith.

I have been enlightened by few other posts regarding religious scriptures, impressively named moulvis of ancient times as well as of the present. I also came across frantic appeals to treat the killer mullah as a psychopathic serial killer and NOT A MUSLIM. Many saviours of Islam and the Pakistan argued that Islam does not preach violence, hence both Islam and Pakistan are completely safe. Q.E.D.
I am impressed and feel indebted to the writers of these posts. Thanks. Thanks too, on behalf of the bereaved family, for many kind words showered after the TRUTH is finally proved convincingly, comprehensively and for all time to come.

JahraJ, it really appears that you are talking to yourself. I am writing this to undo that prospect.

Samar

PS : Unlike me (#27), I believe you are not writing all this to fine tune your English writing.

Dear Zahraj:

I am really amused to see that you have reacted to the valid concerns of interactors here with a very mystified way weakening your own sensitive stance on the series of culprit?s acts. Without even pointing out you mention:

``I am very amused to read that there is so much concern on the assassin`s past victims.``

Even if the past victims were models or sex workers the killing of any human is as shameless and callous as of killing a prominent personality of so called society. I am very much persuaded by the interactor SR?s point of view on ``Begumat`` and prostitutes at the same time which you have dumbfounded taken very negatively. He has been right in saying that these professional women have a legacy of their own to live in the society and norms shouldn?t be only applied to them in the manner of Islam.

Unreceptively you have ignored the political victims of the major party of Pakistan?s workers that are getting assassinated by the government agenda and even any law issue is not raised against them. Recently six PPP workers have been murdered in Attock leaving no signs of mercies for the affected families. In the same hand if any cop is killed anywhere he is given full protocol to his native town and is buried in national flag. Where is our socialist humanity gone when poor workers get targeted in this martial law decorum!

And you are getting lengthily irrelevant, deviating from the topic you chose at hand, you must had done a through homework before posting about a topic of which you seem to have no clue of its reason. However feeling condemnation for a brutal act is not enough to license your patriotisms for a land which you have migrated from. However it bites back when the old nationalism is hurt and it bleeds.

Secondly in your four paragraph article you have felt offensive because Pakistan is becoming an embarrassment for the outside world. That is your major concern then the stale state of Pakistan. The repute of Pakistan when it gets violated by scoundrels is the things that have forced you to write.
If you are so much willing to pay reverence to the deceased Zill-e-Huma then please come Pakistan get to jail and take all the records of the murderer Ghulam Sarwar and trace down all of his flow in out of jails and how he came out of jail when he was under charges of seven murders. Which madrassah schools he attended and who made him bail out to kill. If no strict action is done then after 5/6 years he will again be on roads having a license to kill another woman. Noticeably he is the same man who was once involved in targeting Benazir Bhutto to kill. So connect the dots group the connections and make the world know what the loose ends are in our system that lets culprits like Ghulam Server to roam freely in the society.
Stepping back from your stance will only show your irresponsibility towards the main issue. So be rugged enough to carve out truth very patiently.
And it?s highly intentional that this lady Zeena and the disrespectful Zeemax are busy in saving Mullahs role in this. Even if this act is purely by current government then one may ask from them what?s the rate of particularly Wahabi form of inbred maulvis acting in uniform of Pakistan. More than one third of Pakistani Army is Wahabi that believes in Taliban to the core of their hearts and their heart beat with Osama Bin Laden. If the name Sarwar is now going to be attached with a fundo stigma then every third Pakistani male of age [20-25] is named Osama and you can find a few Saddams in NWFP too. Naming convention has become such a ridiculing effect here that you can?t even stop Pakis from naming their kids Muawiya aur Yazeed. There are many here too which need not to be named but the act the same but that is totally under the interact guidelines of this site which are very stressfully implemented here and our editor never refrains from reminding us that.

If you have opted to be ignorant from the real causes that are affecting Pakistan then one can only praise for your already immigration from the state of no concern. And the matter is only not rural focused. But is majorly related to rural community as 70 percent of Pakistan lives in rural areas and their immigration to industrial areas are mostly fraudulent as they are exposed to the opportunities very suddenly and they take it very cunningly unlike the new generation of them which is more aware to be civil and coherent.

Regards,

Nadia_Zehra.

Guys

Go and read my ilog.

Re: # 46
ramchandar baywakoof,

.......... did you notice that i had put those words in quotes ? .... you know what that means ?........... somtimes it is better to keep quite instead of showing your ignorance ........ baywakoof!

#45 by Zeena

Is the good madam talking to you or to herself?

ref#40

Please read pisso as `pissoo`

ref#38
[ - he is ``most revered human being for us, someone who is more important for us than our mom`s, dad`s, brothers sisters, our own children`` .......... shame on you]

Chacha Jani Hamidm2

Et tu brute.

You too.

You guys are how to describe you people?

Paigambar ki jhaanto ke pisso.

#43
This is an irrelevant post which has got nothing to do with this topic. It should be deleted.

What is the connotation of immigartion to European countries and to America regarding this particular topic?

Why all this ranting about a particular``mind set``, ``embarrassment`` by Pakistani immigrants?

100% of Pakistani migrate to Europe and America and they are setting up very good examples of morality, hard work with successful careers and of course charismatic personalities to have clear recognition among GORA CULTURE. I feel proud to be Pakistani b/c Pakistanis have proved themselves superior in each and every field.

Majority have good and polished living standards with No drug and crime culture.Their mind sets are refined and educated to defend themselves, their country of origin and their adopted country while giving much to their native and their new countries.

God Bless all Pakistanis abroad and in Pakistan.