On Zillae Huma Usman

what I was trying to post earlier ....

FYI
Dawn has removed the word `cleric` from its story.

GUJRANWALA, March 20: An anti-terrorism court on Tuesday sentenced Mohammad Sarwer to death on two counts and fined him Rs200,000 in the murder case of Punjab Minister for Social Welfare Zille Huma Usman.

The court ordered that Rs100,000 of the fine would be given to the heir of the deceased. If the convict fails to make the payment, he will have to undergo one year of rigorous imprisonment.

The court also awarded two years imprisonment to the accused and fined him Rs10,000 for possessing an illicit weapon.

According to the prosecution, Sarwer killed the woman minister on Feb 20 when she was going to address an open court at the PML house in Satellite Town. He was arrested after the murder and a case was registered against him.

The court had issued charge-sheet on March 9 and later recorded statements of 15 prosecution witnesses.

#129 by khurram,

Thanks!

Re: # 129 Khurram,

Thank God, our hands are clean! The bullets did not belong to us!!

Samar

Zeena (#120):

When did Allah ever say that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last prophet? If he was the last prophet, it should be mentioned in Quran. No? Once we have discussed Quran, we can review ahadith as well ... if you so desire.

And please spare me this “ask any Muslim” diatribe … it sounds hollow. If you cannot validate your claim, it is merely a baseless opinion. Thanks, but no, thanks.

I`d rather learn Islam from Quran and Allah`s Prophet (pbuh). Mere opinions do not cut it for me.

samar (#126),

The general point I was trying to make about journalists is that … they stay employed if their material gets published. At times they may push boundaries to spice up stories. This should not be news to anyone. Read everything, but with a grain of salt.

If this killing was instigated by religious fanaticism, then Sarwar was probably no more than a little pawn. And pawns get sacrificed left and right … there are 8 of them for every king even in the game of chess. And life is a lot more complex than a game of chess.

And finally … a person who considers himself a Muslim is a Muslim in my view. Quran vests no authority in anyone to declare another a non-Muslim. The matter rests with Allah Almighty and is best left as such. So Sunnis, Shiites, Sufis etc. are all Muslims - no one has any right to declare them otherwise. If an Ahmadi-Muslim majority country declares them non-Muslims, I would surely consider such laws oppressive and un-Islamic – absolutely - shame on me otherwise.

Re: # 133 sattar2,

A very kind and heartening reply, sir! Thanks! You have endorsed my point of view, though I was a bit confused. I am not well versed with Quran or Hadith. I am feeling satisfied that even then I could grasp the real meaning of the basic teachings of Quran.
As regards treating each other Non-muslims I wish to ask you this : Do you approve of what is happening in Pak? Are not the sunni dominated laws of Pak `Oppressive and UN-ISLAMIC`. Not only laws, general public and even INTELLECTUALS also think in the same way. Are you ashamed of all this, then? Do you hope to find any way out of this mess? Or you will waste your time engaging in useless talk with real base and adamant intellectuals.

Re: # 132 I am further enlightened by this post too.

It is really foolish to believe that any one can claim to be the last prophet (or last of anything for that matter) in this infinite world which does not appear to have any beginning or any end.

Samar

Re: # 133

Sattar2

You say:

``And finally … a person who considers himself a Muslim is a Muslim in my view. Quran vests no authority in anyone to declare another a non-Muslim.``

Certainly, according to the Quran, we can be Muslims without even having any faith - vide Sura Hujrat (49), verse 14. But the Paky Constitution denies this right to Paky Muslims who have to submit a `Halaf-Nama` (To whom God knows as all Pakies are `Halfi Muslims`), to be treated as Muslims officially.

I wonder how can they protest if other countries call them terrorists when their own government does not give them right to call themselves Muslims sans faith even.

Re: # 122

Zeena dear (If you don`t mind)

No dear you are wrong in presuming that I am in favour of Hadood Ord. In fact I totally agree with you that it is as you say, `` the most cruel , inhumane ordinance ever on this mother earth``. But, whereas it was mainly against the women previously it is against men now. As appears from the recent media reports a flood gate of accusation of rape against men seems to have been opened after the recent amendment made therein, obviating the necessity of four eye witnesses.

As regards MM`s case I am still doubtful if she was raped at all. If at all it was a `consensual` or legal rape committed at the instance of a People`s Court (Village Panchayat). I wonder why are you so selective in honouring MM when there are so many other nobler women who went through worse ordeal of rape. And by the way what you say about the sex-slaves whose fathers and brothers do not watch them dragged away but are killed fighting to save them.

Re: # 131

samar -

:)

Re: # 137, ZaharaJ,

I liked your smile? Thank you!

Samar

Re: # 136, teshah saheb,

Why are you so much worried about the publicity and money MM got. She got all this because she was more courageous and outspoken. Hasn`t she risked even her life to expose so much of the rot brought upon by the obscurantist, barbaric and religo-patriarchal Paki society. Would not this help correct the injustice committed against other women and their loved ones?

Samar

#132 sattar2 sahib

As a matter of fact, Muhammad is the last link of the chain of Prophets ...that is the only truth that makes us Muslims.

Everything else is false and whoever doesn`t believe in the above is NON-Muslim.

Any person who believes Mirza Ahmed as His/Her last Prophet or even Prophet is Not Muslim.Period.
There is NO ifs and buts. If you still insists in Not believing In the above and still insist that Mirza Ghulam was your last Prophet or whatever, and still be called Muslim.

Sorry, No real Muslim will compromise on this. Just go outside of this web site, ask any Muslim............even a layman will tell you the truth.

Now If you wish to twist Islam for your own wishes towards a false way, then I can`t help you with it.


#136 teshah sahib

No absolutely NOT I do not mind, you have your own POV which can be different than mine.
We both are two free and civilized individuals who can agree to disagree and who can disagree to agree..............but, don`t take every disagreement as some sort of personal attack like majority of interactors on this web site do, the moment you disagree with their opinions, they start attacking and counter attacking you and then play all innocent.

Thank God You and I are different league than all this crap.

Anyway, you raised quite interesting points.........Let me answer them point by point whatever I can with my very limited wisdom.

#1:-[[But, whereas it was mainly against the women previously it is against men now]]
Yes, hudood ordinance was against women, and I totally agree that it is now can be the opposite to harm innocent men.
Then it should be strict judiciary duty and strict laws for the protection of innocent men. In Pakistani patriarchal society, trust me even if hudood ordinance is no more there, raped women will be the only one who won`t come surface just for the fear of their men and for the fear of their reputation. Even then men are @ a big advantage for merely being men.
#2:-[[As regards MM`s case I am still doubtful if she was raped at all]]

Sir jii
With all due respect what kind of logic is this? C`mon a woman is raped infront of the whole bunch of people by a bunch of evils and here you are still persisting that she wasn`t raped...............WaWawa........Kiaa baat haiy jii aap kii.

So, that means you do not consider anything rape at all or the impression I am getting from your point is you do not think rape is a serious crime at all. Why to bother?

No, my dear sir ji
Miss MM was raped and her rapists got away with it in the beginning and latter only b/c of American media poor lady got some recognition.................

My POV for rape crime is to hang rapist to death. No less. No compromise, no ifs or buts.

#3:-[[ wonder why are you so selective in honouring MM when there are so many other nobler women who went through worse ordeal of rape.]]

Oh, YES I do with all my heart, I do support all the poor and oppressed women, but, majority of them are either underestimated(not reported), so how will I know? That happens in that society where majority of rape cases are garbaged under the carpet.

#4:-[[And by the way what you say about the sex-slaves whose fathers and brothers do not watch them dragged away but are killed fighting to save them. ]]

Yes, I agree with you on this point, my heart goes out for them. I wish we could make some strict law to protect those sex slaves. I believe Govt. should pass some amendment for those women who are forced to be sex slaves and try to free them and give them protection in the form of some beneficial institutions...........which can also help them to stand on their own feet...................Thanks for the thought provoking points.

samar (#134),

Regarding treatment of non-Muslims, I am not sure which issue you are specifically referring to; but must add that … Islam teaches us to treat everyone with dignity, fairness, and compassion. Laws and codes that violate these principles are un-Islamic and unfair, in my view.

+++

teshah (#135),

Good point and thanks for your comments.

As Quran delineates in 49:14, being a Muslim does not necessarily mean that faith has entered a person’s heart. It is perhaps only the first step … whereby a person becomes a Muslim by declaring his faith in Allah and His Messenger (pbuh) by reciting kalmia -“There is none worthy of worship but Allah; Muhammad (pbuh) is messenger of Allah”.

Acquiring true faith, righteousness, humility, selflessness is a lifelong struggle … mostly within one’s own self, against one’s own ego. It is no easy task by any measure.

Leave it to fanatics to come up with their own elaborate definitions of “Muslim”. Each mullah has his own … and now Zeena has posted some 8-odd points of her own (post #75).

These definitions have little to do with Islam or Quran. They are mostly rooted in self-righteousness and an intolerant view of the world.

Zeena (#140):

Merely making claims does not serve any purpose. You may as well insist that … earth is flat, no ifs and buts. Period.

You may consider Ahmadis non-Muslims, and that’s fine. But if you escalate the issue by insisting on ”last prophet” issue, you should back up your claim.

Your inability to do so underscores weakness of your own view. It’s something for you to consider as you go around passing fatwas of kuffr against others.

Re: # 138

Samar - I wished we could use a few *real* emoticons on the interact page. Rest assured, I would have used them sparingly :) Now, can I please request you to spell my first name correctly for future reference? It`s Zahra. It`s neither Jahra nor Zahara. There is a difference. Secondly, my perspectives and ego stay intact whether or not I am accorded with a ``madam`` greeting.

Keep your humor(with a tinge of sarcasm) and enthusiasm alive ;)

Take Care.

RE:-#141 sattar2
[[ and now Zeena has posted some 8-odd points of her own (post #75).]]

Dear sattar sahib ji
Well, let me revise all those points one by one and let`s see which point is ODD and doesn`t suit your mind.

Here is my take for being Muslims. Anyone who accepts this with the honesty of his/her heart with unshakable faith is Muslim.

1:-[[God(Almighty) is ONE and believes in God(almighty) as super supreme..............]]

So, this is ODD point that I made up on my own...........So, by saying it as odd point you are nullifying the basic concept of being believer or non believer...........Being Muslim comes next. First you have to be believer to be called as Muslim.
and
[[Muslim believes and respects Prophet Mohd(PBUH). He/she will never ever utter any word of disrespect or any derogatory word or insults for HIM(PBUH).]]

Again, by calling this point an ODD point , you`re denying the basic concept of Islam(Foundation stone)........So, in your POV it is OK to NOT believe in Prophet Mohd(PBUH) and it is OK to insult and disrespect HIM and still you are Muslim............WoW!!! quite intelligent.

Just think...........if you can...........

2:-[[Muslim believes Prophet Mohd(PBUH) as the last prophet of all.]]

So, you do not believe in Prophet Mohd(PBUH) and do not believe that Prophet Mohd(PBUH) was the last brick and last chain of the Prophet hood.........and you find it ODD.........impressive........and still you wish to be called Muslim...........whom you`re playing here?

3:[[-Muslim if confused about some issue will always try to resolve it with the help of Quran and with the help of VALID hadiths( a guidance from our Prophet(PBUH), NULLIFYING invalid hadiths to clear all chaos.]]

Ohh, so this point is also ODD, So, you do not believe in Quran and then Valid Hadiths(real guidance from Our Last Prophet Mohd(PBUH)..........And you are still insisting that you are Muslim.....just think

4:-[[Muslim is free to ask questions about Quran , about Islam`s teachings and also about Prophet(PBUH)`s ways of life WITHOUT disrespecting or insulting Prophet(PBUH)`s personal life and HIS ways.]]

BTW, what is the ODD about this point? yes, Muslims and also other Non Muslims are free to exchange discussions about Quran/Prophet Mohd(PBUH)`s teachings..........So, you think it is ODD to ask questions and think to quench the thirst of curious minds to polish their ways of lives and to enhance their thought processes............So, you find it ODD NOT to disrespect Quran/Prophet Mohd(PBUH)`s teachings...........Wonderful!! Quite intelligent approach........carry on.

5:-[[There is a MAJOR difference between being INQUISITIVE maintaining decency, manners and certain class and being disrespectful.]]

So, this point is also ODD for you..........it wouldn`t be odd for you, if, someone doesn`t care for manners, doesn`t show certain class, doesn`t maintain decency and he/she must be disrespectful in his/her inquisitiveness about Quran and Prophet Mohd(PBUH)

6:[[-Believes in all Prophets prior to Last Prophet(PBUH).]]

What is ODD about this point ? Yes, there are total of One Lakh and 24 thousand Prophets including our Prophet Mohd(PBUH)...........Who was the last brick of all this house of Prophet hood( Mohd (PBUH) stated HIMSELF........,`` I am the last prophet and there will be NO prophet after me, I have completed this chain of Prophet hood.

So, Mohd(PBUH)`s saying was ODD...........Oh, really......I did not know that.....You`re right.........

7:-[[Believes Quran/kalima/five times prayers/fasting/zakat/Hajj]]

So,to believe in Quran/kalima/praying five times/fasting/hajj/zakat is ODD for you, where as these are the actual pillars of Islam..................You are genius.

8:-[[Believes in Valid Hadiths(Nullify invalid hadiths).]]

So, to believe in Mohd(PBUH) true and valid sayings which are for the betterment of the whole world are ODD...............You are NOT odd, Mr.sattar2............Yes, My points are all ODD.

Well, by calling my all above points ODD, you gave me your answer...............No need to discuss anything further................Just think....

Well, I am not a giving any fatwaaa, You are yourself denying all the basic concept of Islam and being Muslim , you are twisting the whole foundation of Islam and then coming to me saying , I have to accept you as a Muslim............just think about it.

Who is being ODD here? Just think about it.