Raiwind IX

Personally I think Inzamam is a bit over the hill now and should think of retiring!

A bit dissapointed to see how the interact`s column has turned out. The muslim-hindu(or whatever religion eastmwest guy belongs to) makes for disturbing reading. In my opinion both are bad as each other. I`m sure neither of their respective religions condone this sort of behaviour which is resulting in these untoward slanging matches.

eastmwest I think its unfair of you to compare Pakistan with Iran. Pakistan is still a fledgling country.

Whilst it is easy to criticise something or someone, it is always hard to understand them! A point to ponder for all.

Re: # 132

Actually Abu you are ugly in person, mind and for sure in looks. Why do keep mentioning looks. Please post your picture. I doubt you look very Aryan or Arab. You Pakis think you are so great because you may have a drop of Arabic blood. You`re not. Know what arabs call you and blacks behind your backs? Abeed. Look it up retard.

Ijaz Gulli_master: “Eik aurat, hazar khasam “ Achi qasii aapas mein baatt horahii thii aap bilawajayy mein apnii walida muhturma koo lay aayeyy..kheyr anyway.

The reason I stated an obvious and called you a bhangi is because you are a hypocrite. You parade your secularism and your fairness and your freedom of choice of religion when abdur rehman converts from Islam to Christianity in Afghanistan, but when mohammad yosuf converts you are full of conspiracy theories “he did it because he wanted captaincy”, bhaii aapkoo kiss nayy bataya? “a birdie told me that he converted because they were going to give him sooooooo much money”. Fact of the matter is that you are so bitter at the reality that he left your religion that you resort to lies and try your level best to undermine the well established fact that he is one of the greatest batsman in the world. This guy to this day supports the very family that threatened him physically and mentally. If he did convert because of captaincy, could someone please explain to me why in the world he went to this extreme? He could very well be a muslim like myself or meera. It is on record by they way not from his own account but thru other people that this guy hasn’t missed a tahajud prayer ever since he has converted, my point right now isn’t whether it makes him a special human being or not my question is why is he going to this length? He could have just changed his name and then partied on like the rest of us muslims do. I am afraid in his head he has found something special, you & I have the right to comment that he is wrong but to doubt his sincerity without any evidence what so ever just because you are bitter that he was the only worthwhile Pakistani that Christian community has produced in last 30 years all of a sudden went to the other side is deplorable and that’s why I called you a bhangi and you honestly have lived up to that.

Tahmed Sahab,

There are 3 main issues that Sattar and the ilk rave and rant about that I have addressed numerous times on different boards but no matter what the topic at hand is they start playing the victim card and how sunnis stole their candy-bag. I mean the article can be about cricket, aborted fetuses in India or Japan’s economic revival, one way or the other they will start nagging about the persecution of Qadiyanis in Pakistan. Please indulge me as I attempt to address those 3 issues again for the millionth time:

1. Persecution of Qadiyanis because of their faith:

I have said numerous times that citizens of Pakistan should not be persecuted on the basis of their religion, caste, creed, sex, sect or SOCIAL CLASS etc. No one and I mean no one should be persecuted for being qadiyani as long as they follow the law of the land (I will elaborate on that later in the 3rd bullet point). My contention however is that people in Pakistan are not persecuted for being qadiyanis. IF they are persecuted THEN they are persecuted for not being rich or not having a chacha or mama in Pakistan Army. I assure you if you have access to Tariq Aziz who is a well known qadiyani and is the principal sect. of General Pervaiz Musharaf THE GREAT, you can and will get away with murder. You can be the most devout sunni in Pakistan but if you are poor and aren’t related or know the RIGHT people, the oppressors of Pakistan will molest you, persecute you, rape you and your women in front of the whole pind and the administration will sit idly by enjoying it like it’s a movie. Poor women who are being Kari’d thru out sind, or killed in nwfp or raped by ELDERS in Punjab, do you think they are all qadiyanis? Persecution is directly related to the social class.

2. Qadiyani’s insistence that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed qadiyani is the Messanger of Allah swt, henceforth All his descendents are Muslims.


As matter of principle and for the sake of argument I have a major problem with that insistence. It’s like saying I am good looking but I am also hindu. Bhai daykhein aysa nahii hotta. Har mazhab mein daqlayy kii kuch sharayiit kuch huoood-0-quyood hotti hein, Islam is not unique in that perspective. I agree with your notion, what is this fascination with being called Muslims anyway? Agla aapkoo moonh nahii laga raha, dhutkaarr raaha hay, abb bayghyraatoon orr bayhayaoon kii tarahh ghussayy challayy aarahayy hein. If the argument is that Mirza Ghulam ahmed qadiyani was the messenger of Allah then I should be allowed to ask, what was that revelation that he was recieving? What is the proof that he was in fact Prophet? In that regard I have heard nothing but rhetoric so far, “You don’t understand Arabic”, acha bhai mein nahii samajh saka Arabic. Allah swt says in Quran, “We have put a seal on Prophethood”, aapp kehtayy hein naheen wohh baatt nabi-e-kareem kii anguthi (ring) kayy barayy mein hay. Wah sahab wah. I don’t understand Arabic, Ibn-e-hajar asqalani didn’t understand Arabic, imam ibn-e-taymiyah didn’t understand Arabic, abu-bakar (RAW) didn’t understand Arabic, Ali(RAW) didn’t understand Arabic, orr too orr nabi-ekareem himself could understand Arabic, 1400 saal mein koii naa samjh saka Arabic aykk samajh sakayy too Mirza ghulam ahmed qadiyani orr sattar bhaii kayy abboo samjh sakay. Yanii pagal panayy orr baywaqoofii kii bhii koii hadd mutayan karlein huzoor. If you claim that Mirza or you or your Khaloo jaan is a prophet of Allah then you have to arrive with some sort of evidence, this however is purely an educational matter. As a matter of principle and law, no one should be persecuted because he is delusional.

3. Qadiyanis say that they are not happy with the fact that the constitution of Pakistan doesn’t let them call themselves Muslim.


Daykhein hazrat, for all intent and purpose democracy by design is a govt. Where the whims and wishes of the majority are respected and instituted. I said it earlier that as an avid steak lover I find it completely retarded that I can’t enjoy a nice juicy steak in Bombay, but the majority there have decided that beef should not be consumed because majority of them doesn’t appreciate there God being eaten. If I decide to reside in Bombay then i have to follow the law of the land. I can protest and try to change the draconian law thru process that is available under constitution, however if I do decide to break the law then I will be arrested. Now you rave and rant that its inhumane, its unfair its bigotry, for the sake of argument, FINE! What are we going to do about it? Lets try and change the hearts and minds of the people of Pakistan and make them realize with reason and proof that in fact Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani is the Prophet of Allah, if you can’t do that then you have a great opportunity here in west where the REAL Muslims are doing an excellent job of propogating their religion which is resulting in 34,000 americans converting to real Islam every year. Qadiyanis should focus in west and spread the “TRUTH” here where there is no prejudice and the venues are completely open and once they are successful to the extent where the president of USA and the prime minister blair both are qadiyanis then THEY can put pressure on Pakistan to change their laws. Sattar loves to draw a parallel between Muhammad’s (PBUH) persecution and the supposed mirza sahab and his cohorts went thru, qibla, persecution alone is not alone some kind of a magic proof of truth. David Koresh and his disciples were persecuted till they were dead, that doesn’t make him a TRUE Prophet of Allah swt. Pakistan was formed in 1947, qadiyanis were declared non-muslims in 1973. This didn’t happened overnight, there are some realities and some facts in history that we have to study before we can analyze why is that all of a sudden the majority of Pakistan felt that we need to take this drastic measure. My humble submission is that Qadiyanis weren’t playing by the rules, they were propogating qadiyaniyat to the laymen and naïve with the label of Islam and it is state’s responsibility to make sure the eternal well-being of the naïve as well. We can argue about whether eternal well being is related to one being a qadiyani or a muslim but that’s a diff. topic all together.

Pissed


Pakistani priorities
What do the Pakistanis think of their government spending their money on nuclear bombs, instead of on roads, trains, public toilets or sewerage?



August 1, 2006
iranian.com

One of the many distressing news items one reads these days is the Washington Post item posted on this site, on Pakistan`s plans to build another plant to make more nuclear bombs. It should prompt philosophers to reflect on the nature of human folly, folly in this case being a misapprehension of the nature of security. My own reflection is: Pakistan, you are a piss-hole state, why do you want more bombs?

You are a backward, lawless country. Your people barely respect your laws, especially the ``high`` class of dirty, crooked politicians who just seem unable to keep their dirty little fingers out of the public purse, your women are beaten or burned or scarred if they fail to do the bidding of their primitive men-folk, you are the cradle of Taliban and all manner of other fanatics that desecrate religion as they bomb and murder in God`s name - to satisfy their own insatiable thirst for violence and mayhem.

Your generals and soldiers seem to connive with this underworld, not to mention with the bandits, gangsters, and narco-terrorists that keep entering Iran (Iran: shut the border, put up a Sharon-style wall with an electrified barbed-wire topping, and keep out the narco-trash). Where would your economy be without remittances from the millions of Pakistanis who would rather live elsewhere, and without U.S. taxpayer`s money President Bush is forced to pay as ``aid`` to a supposed ally in the war on terrorism - though an ally that invites all the confidence of a Jewish carpet seller. The aid is undeserved I hardly need say, when terrorists seem to come and go as they please.

Goodness knows what the state is of public administration, the quality of services given to the public (are you laughing?) the postal system, public transports, sewerage, environmental management, security and the prevalence of firearms, consumer rights, civil rights etc... Surely the Pakistani government should be dealing with this litany of problems?

And what do the Pakistanis think of their government spending their money on bombs, instead of on roads, trains, public toilets or sewerage? Do they prefer to fuss over Kashmir, as their government would like them to, as if it has anything to do with them? Pakistan of course is not the only country where the government prefers to obsess over impertinent foreign issues or finance a nuclear programme instead of making the country a better place to live and work. Has Pakistan done anything good since its foundation by that fanatic-in-a-suit Jinnah?

What an appalling man: one can see him shrilly pushing for a separate Bantustan for his folk, fomenting hatred between Hindus and Muslims so he could become a head of state. He was once chided by the Nizam [of Hyderabad] for rudely sitting in his presence, uninvited, casually crossing his legs and lighting a cigarette. ``How dare you smoke before the Nizam of Hyderabad?`` the monarch snapped. Marvellous - putting the nasty little politician in his place. Jinnah reportedly sat up, stubbed out his cigarette and mumbled ``sorry``.

The Nizam was a marvellous man: while one of India`s wealthiest princes, he wore the same cap for decades. He hid wads of cash here and there in his vast palace - for a rainy day - but forgot about them, and they rotted away or were eaten by mice. He would serve his guests one glass of tea and no more. I like the Nizam, he did as he pleased. India should have shown him a little more respect.

As for Kashmir, this endless bone of contention between India and Pakistan, the British should have just left it intact, kept the fabulous Maharajah and ``Finlandized`` the state, turning it into a neutral state and UNESCO heritage site, instead of some big old banged-out Beirut.

Frankly, the princes and despots of old were no worse - if not better - than the myriad demagogues, revolutionary chieftains, presidents and ``dear leaders`` the 20th century has thrown up, flattering ``the people`` as they plot their coups, political murders, bombings and nuclear-bomb programmes. I`ll take the Nizam over Taliban or Saddam thank you.

Personally, I have nothing against Pakistanis. I shared a flat in London once with a charming, courteous Pakistani. His parents spoke softly, like the Persians. So, to conclude on a more optimistic and amicable note: Pakistan is a stinking cesspit of a piss-pot.


COMMENT
For letters section
To Alidad Vassigh

Re: # 127

One last thing...your ancestors defn were piss drinking cow worhsipping hindus and no matter how many of them you hate or kill you are still an Abeed in most arabs eyes. You are NOT Turkish, Persian or Arab. Just a self-loathing loser who has taken the worst from the Arabs and lost the best from the Indo-Aryans. Genetic disaster.

Btw what`s your real name? Arabic? Persian? Like there is anything ``Paksitani``.

Here is a great article from iranian.com. About Pakistan:

http://www.iranian.com/Vassigh/2006/August/Nuclear/index.html

Also please read Modern Jahiliyah by Nima Kasraie on same site.

Justifying sporting of beards by cricketers by citing the example of WG Grace is so much nonsense. Grace never sported the beard to display his religious affinity, maybe it was just the hep thing to do. But when Saeed Anwar having experienced enlightenment wears a beard and comes out to bat, it looks comic , out of place and just uncricketerlike and maybe creates an uncomfortable feeling that the guy is somehow different.

Maybe when the Tablighi types undergo more enlightenment, we might see cricketers shedding the shirt and pant and coming out in beards, ganjis and tehmads.

When Imran was the captain, one does not remember him starting his interviews with `Bis-Raheem`, one wonders what has got into Pakistani cricketers.

Religion is best left out of sport.

eastmwest,

Just an explanation.

What you`re talking about, has been discussed on these boards for at-least the 8 years that I`ve been here.

If you`re a newbie, it`s not my fault. These issues have been thrashed threadbare.

If you`re able to come up with anything new, you`re welcome to stay.

If you want the same same ... go to yahoo chat or something. This is Chowk.

Thanks.

Okay .. get lost now you AH ...

Re: # 65
you do have some good points, but tend to generalise a bit, chris patten went to india to entice students for oxford that`s because uk earns millions in fees, that`s why they have built brit university campuses in malaysia and the gulf.

Dear Lowlife,

Given your crude, abrasive manner, I don`t intend to interact here any longer. Just confirms my supicions.

Hope Iran starts building that wall fast. Sorry ignoramus but they have a culture and language that pre-dated and ended up dominating the Islamic world. Unlike you.

Maybe when you finish in China you can go to Arabia and polish your master`s shoes.

FYI Want to really insult an Iranian or Arab call him a Pakistani. Your such a pitiful wannabee.

#122 by eastmwest

Yeah yeah sure .. I don`t have to read all that stuff. You`re an Iranian you munafiq? Why do you sully the great persian name by calling yourself that?

You just sound like a hindoo ... and that`s enough for me. And you`re probably one because your thoughts are of a hindoo cow worshipping urine sipping hindoo.

I thought I asked you to ask me a question. Don`t you have any?

naqsh saheb ... pak media is full of evidence and stories how inzi is using islam to protect his position and power in team ...

Re: # 121

I am not a Hindu you moron. My ancestry is iranian. You know ``Persian``, what the majority of Pakistanis fantasize of being. At least iranians have a culture they are proud of. The don`t suffer as much as do you suffer from the neurosis of conversion. Self-hating people are pathetic but self-hating indians aka Pakistani are really pitiful. Pretending arab or persian ancestry when genotype studies have confirmed they in fact are almost identical to comparable Indian ethnic groups. Yes I have spent quite a bit of time in India and enjoy yoga, talks in Buddhism, tai chi just like many others. The east has much to be proud of and incomparable intellectual accomplisments. But you bozos have decided that 7th century Arabia is the end all and be all of the world.

eastmwest,

Anyway you idiot. Ask me a question and I`ll answer it. Don`t ask me to get into a pissing contest with you about hindoos and Muslims. Ok? Deal? haha.

#118 by eastmwest

Idiot .. I live in the Cantonese part of China .. you know that little Island on the southern tip? Some people callit SAR but I call it China ... haha.

And no I don`t drive a cab. I screw hindnis as a gigolo over here .. haha. That`s my job.