Raiwind IX

#68 by tahmed32
So the lesson learnt is to never comment on an issue without having deliberated. It suits the multinickers but not you.

Though there is a passing reference to a particular word in #8, there has been a spate of blasphemous remarks on Hinuism and Islam including the pasting of a cartoon. As a Pakistani well aware of the perils of Pakistan Penal Code Section 295C, I find it strange that shady Characters like Abu_Safwaan can ingnite such hatred and then tolerate it.

Is sab kuch se to mujey bhi sharam atti hai.

Cheerios

Re: # 68

All people regardless of religion are equal as per Quran? That`s news to me! You mean agnostics, atheists, Taoists, Buddhists etc...? So according to the Quran if my Persian friend converts to Christianity after marrying a Chinese Christian she is not supposed to be stoned to death? According to her that is the prescribed punishment and its exactly what the highest moral authority would decide in Iran let alone other Muslim nations. Egregious crimes, mob rule, fanaticism, intolerance, racism, elitism exist everywhere. I think Islamic nations are unique in having their highest moral authority sanction the death sentence for apostasy. Oh and the equality bit...please you have got to be kidding. Go to the Gulf states and look at their labor laws.

A boo boo Safainwala,

That`s wrong to sidetrack the issue here. Pl stick to the point(s) raised by Nadeem.

ijaz_gul: I came into this discussion a bit late, and had not read abu_safwan`s post #8. So, please dont assume that I have read every post on this board - hell, i havent even read the article yet, and I just jumped in when I saw one of hamidm`s entertaining posts.

I have read #8 now that you mention it, and I see that you are referring to a_s reference to christians as ``bhangis``. I am not obliged to make my views known on every single thing any poster writes, because please understand that would then require me to spend 100 hours each day on chowk.

Nevertheless, not that I owe you any comments on anything anyone else wrote, I can say that I have in the past seen such language used for christians and have in fact spoken out against it. Specifically, I have on such occassions noted that all individuals, regardless of religion, are equal per the Quran (and indeed a truly ``educated`` person does not need the Quran to understand this simple proposition). The fact that many Pakistanis persist in looking down upon sweepers and servants and so forth, and for using the term for sweepers (``bhangis``) to ridicule christians simply reflects shortcomings in their own character.

You also refer to me as a self-style moderator and thus swing the other way from accussing me of not making comments on what someone wrote. I do of coure comment on posts written by others - but that is no more than what everyone else and does not make me a ``self-styled moderator``. For inappropriate language (which you also refer to), please be more specific my cutting and pasting what you found objectionable.

Re: # 66

Interesting...I am familiar with most of it. The stories of the prophet cannodling with the young Coptic slavegirl much to the annoyance of his wives is no news to me. Neither is the promise of young boys in heaven or Arab imperialism masked as a faith.

Hey Abu here is a link on the long history of pederasty in the Islamic world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_the_Islamic_lands

Your holy prophet himself warned about the temptions of beardless youth. Part and parcel of the sexual hypocrisy that Islam perpetuates. The criticism of western licentiousness is a joke...Muslims societies have long been considered a gay man`s heaven. A lot of the Orientalists were drawn to Arabia for this very reason. Kind of explains how a group of men can sustain themselves in remote hidden caves. I mean are they actually celibate?

Last question Abu, so please remind us who have your ancestors been riding? Or should I ask who is riding you :)?

Guys

Go and read my ilog.

Re: # 42

You don`t seem to understand. The indepth report attempted to compare groups by matching families by socioeconomic factors and the educational background of parents and even then Indians did much better than other groups. In fact Indian Muslims ranked higher than Pakistanis or Bangladeshis. It is a topic of curiosity among Britishers themselves as I was asked by a visiting professor at MIT why this was the case. What I am trying to communicate is that the daughter of a Gujerati tailor who is Hindu will do much better academically than a daughter of a tailor who is Paksitani/ Bangladeshi. I will find try to find the report (it is online) and post it. The most underperforming group is actually Pakistani boys. This is not somehting I find amusing or am gloating about. It is distressing. Similar trends are occuring in Canada. Also when you consider there is something like 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world it has not gone unnoticed that in the most intellectually rigorous fields they are sorely underrepresented. Take cryptography for instance I have a cousin doing his Phd at a top institiute. Who dominates the field? Jews, Chinese, Indians and Europeans (far fewer Americans). You can look up top research labs across the world and the same holds true.

A renowned Swedish scientist remarked privately that the two groups you will rarley come across doing cutting edge research are Arabs and Blacks. Much to do has been made about the Golden Age of Islam but if you scratch beneath the surface you will realize the the Arabs for the large part incubated knowledge from Persians, Indians etc... and transmitted it to Europe. In fact the original translator give generous due to original sources. The latest UN report about the Arab world is a damning one, its the only place where literacy is decreasing! There is not culture of reading and intellectual inquisitiveness. I am talking about countries that have billions of dollars of oil wealth. But the question is why have they failed to produce students that are vied for across the world? I mean the head of Oxford Chris Patten is traveling to India to entice students to study at Oxford and he publicly stated he has to in order to compete with like of Harvard, Stanford etc...Can you honestly imagine him or anyone doing the same for Muslim students? It amuses me to no end the wholesale derision some Pakistanis have for Indic culture while having reverence for Arabic culture. Funny no one else in the world shares that tendency. That includes btw Chinese and Japanese.

abu_safwaan sounds suspiciously like porkershark from UP!

Nicely written NFP :)

Inzi seems like a really nice guy- it`s a pity this Tableeghi bunch got their claws into him. And if refusing to toe the religious line is why Shoaib is out of the World Cup, then Pakistan have bigger problems than who`ll use the new ball?

tahmed32
#56
I apprecaite your intervention on behalf of abu_safwaan, but you are pathetically biased. Being an elder and self styled moderator amongst the community, you ought to have shown more neutrality.

abu_safwaan started this tit for tat by using a particular word in #8. Some saner person who happened to be Indian questioned him and he just let loose and tit for tat began. Now you appear to be taking sides in a dirty game the precursor to which was abu_safwaan.
Secondly, if you all are so religious, howcome you write or support filth on the same page where Quranic Ayaats appear. Have a heart.

Do you wish that Pakistanis like me move to better moderated boards because of some zealots want to marginalise everyone other than their brand of beliefs and intellectuals like you support them.

Abu-safwaan and Arjun,

Are you guys going for the Beavis-Butthead awards here ? The terminal fixation
Abu-safwaan has about cow excreta, about martial Pakistani men who strike terror in
Hindus/Jews/Christians and women of Heera Mandi, and his own fictional manhood is a bit
troubling.
Arjun, Prophet Mohammad did things that would qualify him as a murderous pedophile
thug in recent times. However, he would have the entire Hindu pantheon of gods and
goddesses for company. These guys just didn`t have the moral compass we have. Kya
karein ?

p.s: and cool it off on the IT thingie. It comes off as being colossally insecure.

The Tableeghis are mindless dullards. Most of them don`t even have an education. What Fatass should have said was that the team needs ``taleem`` not Deeni Taleem. I`m sure a couple of classes in evolutionary bio or physics would have slapped the beards right off their faces. My sympathies with Danish and Yusuf`s families for having to deal with this madness. But what can one do... Pakistan is not a secular nation and will not be for years to come.

From yanabi.com:


Asalam-o-Alaikum
I heard some good news...Alhamdulilah, 5 cricket stars Muhammad Sami, Kamran Akmal, Imran Farhat, Faisal Iqbal & Shahid Nazir go to International madani markaz of Dawat-e-Islami Faizan-e-Madinah (Karachi) and they have also done bayt to Ameer-e-Ahle Sunnat Hazrat Moulana Muhammad Ilyas Attar Qadri Sahib (damat barkathum).. while doing bayt Alhamdulilah these brothers have taken the right path (the path to Jannah InshaAllah) and they pledge to Allah and asked for forgivness..
May Allah forgive these brothers and show all the Ummah of Hazoor paak the right path...Ameen

:-)

NFP
Don`t know how much the Tablighi Jamaat`s grip over the Pakistan cricket team is responsible for the team`s recent ``lackluster approach,`` however, I must admit I was a bit taken aback when Inzi made that comment in the said TV show. It just came out of the blue, as if Inzi had gone there to intice a few LUMS students into joining the Jamaat. What was even funnier was the look on the other guest, Imran Khan and host Rameez`s face, when Inzi said that. Inzi`s sudden comment had absolutely nothing to do with what was being discussed.

#50 hamidm: please...dont discourage arjun from demonstrating his genius. he reminds me of that pathetic individual in The Munster Family who tried to impress a female with his cool by sticking a drinking straw in each of his nostrils. :-)

#41 abu safwan: ``most revered human being``

a muslim reveres all human beings equally, and there is no individual closer or further away from Allah. Therefore, a muslim distinguishes between muhammed the human being and the message that God conveyed through him, which he did quite faithfully (as is proved by the fact that the message places severe restrictions on the role of the prophet himself to being a messenger and no more).

ttempts to ``ridicule`` the prophet as a means to insult muslims (as genius arjun has been trying to do for years using the limited repertoire of means his single digit IQ has bestowed upon him) would be seen as being as stupid as attempts to spit at the moon - no amount of ridicule can take away the dignity of the basic message of islam.