Raiwind IX

Re: # 161
I posted that before i knew u were my sister in islam, my apologies.

Re: # 147

sr56,

OK just kidding. eastmwest and abu_s are getting seriously carried away and I thought why not lighten things up a bit. Alright, alright, I owe you one.

Welcome to chowk.

By the way guys, why am I the only one welcoming people. Is it because I am dumb and you guys know that these guys are reincarnations?! :)

Re: # 148
Thanks GT. Im not new just don`t contribute that often. But due to a bout of insomnia i`m feeling compelled to write.

sr56: Wow!! And what color is the gray matter behind those blue eyes??

PS: This is a trick question.

Going back to cricketing matters - for anyone living in the SFO bay area, Naz in Fremont is
showing the WC games for free.

I`m punjabi actually, so thats where i attribute my colouring to. My grandfather was a highly respected muslim scholar.

I am confused ......

What did grandfather gopinath do wrong that all his grandchildren are 6`6`` tall caucasians with blue eyes and blond hair?

I`m a Pakistani who defies your typecast. I`m educated(chartered accountant), live in the UK and have a wide circle of non-muslim non pakistani friends. Look caucasian(fair, blue eyes), but have no fear or shame of admitting that i`m a Paksitani.
In all my years I have not encountered or participated in slanging matches involving an individuals country or religion. My morals and thinking don`t allow me to stoop to that lowly level.
There are individuals in every strata of society who speak ill of others, the challenge is to rise above that.
I`m very proud of my religion(Islam) and my country of origin, and I prefer not to be typecast by your references. Not all is what it seems.

eastmwest you have a habit of typecasting!!!

Re: # 139

Sorry an indian friend told me about this site. I have lived long enough in places like Toronto to get a sense of dynamics. One thing I have noticed is that Pakistanis tend to be less educated, more uncouth and dowright primitive than Indians who are for the most part pretty well respected and get along with everyone. Hell Iranians and Palestinians study in India. Yet Pakistanis are the most racist towards Indians and it just cracks me up. Like this abu guy who clearly has some delusion that he is arab or how about those Pakistanis who try to pass themselves of as Persian. I mean we are all a cauldrom or races and ethnicities but the self-hatred is really unbelievable. I thought Iranians were bad (tend to say they look Italian or French etc...) but nothing like this. Also do you know who give Muslims the worst name and reputaion? Yep Pakistanis. They embody the absolute worst aspect of Islam and act like they are so proud. Proud of what? Read the article... I actually find it amusing. I have been told that they absolutely worhsip Persians and Arabs almost to a sychophantish extent just like blacks looking up to whites. Its weird.

Re: # 141

You are using big words again..doesnt suit ur lil structure..stick with random bollywood dancing..naachh bhindii nachhh

Re: # 139
they don`t have a habit of typocasting or anything else too sophisticated. They just have a habit of being ugly and then quite understandbly & reasonably bitter at the fact that they are ugly. Its not their fault.

I applaud NFP for starting such a controversial debate.

By all means write what you want, but next time keep it to the confines of a newspaper or magazine. Something that is not easily accesible to interact with.

Personally I think Inzamam is a bit over the hill now and should think of retiring!

A bit dissapointed to see how the interact`s column has turned out. The muslim-hindu(or whatever religion eastmwest guy belongs to) makes for disturbing reading. In my opinion both are bad as each other. I`m sure neither of their respective religions condone this sort of behaviour which is resulting in these untoward slanging matches.

eastmwest I think its unfair of you to compare Pakistan with Iran. Pakistan is still a fledgling country.

Whilst it is easy to criticise something or someone, it is always hard to understand them! A point to ponder for all.

Ijaz Gulli_master: “Eik aurat, hazar khasam “ Achi qasii aapas mein baatt horahii thii aap bilawajayy mein apnii walida muhturma koo lay aayeyy..kheyr anyway.

The reason I stated an obvious and called you a bhangi is because you are a hypocrite. You parade your secularism and your fairness and your freedom of choice of religion when abdur rehman converts from Islam to Christianity in Afghanistan, but when mohammad yosuf converts you are full of conspiracy theories “he did it because he wanted captaincy”, bhaii aapkoo kiss nayy bataya? “a birdie told me that he converted because they were going to give him sooooooo much money”. Fact of the matter is that you are so bitter at the reality that he left your religion that you resort to lies and try your level best to undermine the well established fact that he is one of the greatest batsman in the world. This guy to this day supports the very family that threatened him physically and mentally. If he did convert because of captaincy, could someone please explain to me why in the world he went to this extreme? He could very well be a muslim like myself or meera. It is on record by they way not from his own account but thru other people that this guy hasn’t missed a tahajud prayer ever since he has converted, my point right now isn’t whether it makes him a special human being or not my question is why is he going to this length? He could have just changed his name and then partied on like the rest of us muslims do. I am afraid in his head he has found something special, you & I have the right to comment that he is wrong but to doubt his sincerity without any evidence what so ever just because you are bitter that he was the only worthwhile Pakistani that Christian community has produced in last 30 years all of a sudden went to the other side is deplorable and that’s why I called you a bhangi and you honestly have lived up to that.

Tahmed Sahab,

There are 3 main issues that Sattar and the ilk rave and rant about that I have addressed numerous times on different boards but no matter what the topic at hand is they start playing the victim card and how sunnis stole their candy-bag. I mean the article can be about cricket, aborted fetuses in India or Japan’s economic revival, one way or the other they will start nagging about the persecution of Qadiyanis in Pakistan. Please indulge me as I attempt to address those 3 issues again for the millionth time:

1. Persecution of Qadiyanis because of their faith:

I have said numerous times that citizens of Pakistan should not be persecuted on the basis of their religion, caste, creed, sex, sect or SOCIAL CLASS etc. No one and I mean no one should be persecuted for being qadiyani as long as they follow the law of the land (I will elaborate on that later in the 3rd bullet point). My contention however is that people in Pakistan are not persecuted for being qadiyanis. IF they are persecuted THEN they are persecuted for not being rich or not having a chacha or mama in Pakistan Army. I assure you if you have access to Tariq Aziz who is a well known qadiyani and is the principal sect. of General Pervaiz Musharaf THE GREAT, you can and will get away with murder. You can be the most devout sunni in Pakistan but if you are poor and aren’t related or know the RIGHT people, the oppressors of Pakistan will molest you, persecute you, rape you and your women in front of the whole pind and the administration will sit idly by enjoying it like it’s a movie. Poor women who are being Kari’d thru out sind, or killed in nwfp or raped by ELDERS in Punjab, do you think they are all qadiyanis? Persecution is directly related to the social class.

2. Qadiyani’s insistence that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed qadiyani is the Messanger of Allah swt, henceforth All his descendents are Muslims.


As matter of principle and for the sake of argument I have a major problem with that insistence. It’s like saying I am good looking but I am also hindu. Bhai daykhein aysa nahii hotta. Har mazhab mein daqlayy kii kuch sharayiit kuch huoood-0-quyood hotti hein, Islam is not unique in that perspective. I agree with your notion, what is this fascination with being called Muslims anyway? Agla aapkoo moonh nahii laga raha, dhutkaarr raaha hay, abb bayghyraatoon orr bayhayaoon kii tarahh ghussayy challayy aarahayy hein. If the argument is that Mirza Ghulam ahmed qadiyani was the messenger of Allah then I should be allowed to ask, what was that revelation that he was recieving? What is the proof that he was in fact Prophet? In that regard I have heard nothing but rhetoric so far, “You don’t understand Arabic”, acha bhai mein nahii samajh saka Arabic. Allah swt says in Quran, “We have put a seal on Prophethood”, aapp kehtayy hein naheen wohh baatt nabi-e-kareem kii anguthi (ring) kayy barayy mein hay. Wah sahab wah. I don’t understand Arabic, Ibn-e-hajar asqalani didn’t understand Arabic, imam ibn-e-taymiyah didn’t understand Arabic, abu-bakar (RAW) didn’t understand Arabic, Ali(RAW) didn’t understand Arabic, orr too orr nabi-ekareem himself could understand Arabic, 1400 saal mein koii naa samjh saka Arabic aykk samajh sakayy too Mirza ghulam ahmed qadiyani orr sattar bhaii kayy abboo samjh sakay. Yanii pagal panayy orr baywaqoofii kii bhii koii hadd mutayan karlein huzoor. If you claim that Mirza or you or your Khaloo jaan is a prophet of Allah then you have to arrive with some sort of evidence, this however is purely an educational matter. As a matter of principle and law, no one should be persecuted because he is delusional.

3. Qadiyanis say that they are not happy with the fact that the constitution of Pakistan doesn’t let them call themselves Muslim.


Daykhein hazrat, for all intent and purpose democracy by design is a govt. Where the whims and wishes of the majority are respected and instituted. I said it earlier that as an avid steak lover I find it completely retarded that I can’t enjoy a nice juicy steak in Bombay, but the majority there have decided that beef should not be consumed because majority of them doesn’t appreciate there God being eaten. If I decide to reside in Bombay then i have to follow the law of the land. I can protest and try to change the draconian law thru process that is available under constitution, however if I do decide to break the law then I will be arrested. Now you rave and rant that its inhumane, its unfair its bigotry, for the sake of argument, FINE! What are we going to do about it? Lets try and change the hearts and minds of the people of Pakistan and make them realize with reason and proof that in fact Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani is the Prophet of Allah, if you can’t do that then you have a great opportunity here in west where the REAL Muslims are doing an excellent job of propogating their religion which is resulting in 34,000 americans converting to real Islam every year. Qadiyanis should focus in west and spread the “TRUTH” here where there is no prejudice and the venues are completely open and once they are successful to the extent where the president of USA and the prime minister blair both are qadiyanis then THEY can put pressure on Pakistan to change their laws. Sattar loves to draw a parallel between Muhammad’s (PBUH) persecution and the supposed mirza sahab and his cohorts went thru, qibla, persecution alone is not alone some kind of a magic proof of truth. David Koresh and his disciples were persecuted till they were dead, that doesn’t make him a TRUE Prophet of Allah swt. Pakistan was formed in 1947, qadiyanis were declared non-muslims in 1973. This didn’t happened overnight, there are some realities and some facts in history that we have to study before we can analyze why is that all of a sudden the majority of Pakistan felt that we need to take this drastic measure. My humble submission is that Qadiyanis weren’t playing by the rules, they were propogating qadiyaniyat to the laymen and naïve with the label of Islam and it is state’s responsibility to make sure the eternal well-being of the naïve as well. We can argue about whether eternal well being is related to one being a qadiyani or a muslim but that’s a diff. topic all together.