Justice, Judiciary and Journalist

A serious question for Urstruly.

Sir, do you ever foresee a future when religious parties can be elected in Pakistan - in a free and fair election?!

Re: # 13 Abbas jeffery: Read todays`s Dailytimes. The President General says that he will abide by the decision taken by the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC)! This is what he said:

---

See text below

---

Daily Times- Lahore March 16, 2007

See: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007 03 16 story_16-3-2007_pg1_2

Govt will accept SJC verdict: Musharraf

GUJRANWALA: President Pervez Musharraf said on Thursday that he would accept the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC)’s verdict on the reference filed against Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry. “This is a constitutional and judicial matter. The decision will be constitutional and be taken by the judiciary itself ... whatever decision it (SJC) takes will be acceptable to me,” Gen Musharraf said in an address to a big public meeting here. He said he believed the SJC would “deliver justice”, but the opposition was politicising the issue through the lawyers’ community. He rejected the notion that lawyers were not with the government, saying that a several lawyers were at the public meeting. The protests by lawyers in front on the Supreme Court building in Islamabad and in Lahore included only a small proportion of lawyers, who were there for “political purposes”. He said he could not say more, since the matter was sub-judice, but added: “Once the decision is taken by the SJC, I will address the nation on TV and take them into confidence on the issue.” END

Now arn`you feeling better?
Now have a cup of good masala Chai and go to bed, Yar. The darkness will be over soon!

Kamath

Dear interactors,

Relax, yaaran! There are only two possibilities:

(1) The ninety-nine percent likelihood: Mushy will weather this one out because

(a) he is smart and quick on his feet,
(b) nobody is very smart (or better) among those who wish to get rid of him,
(c) the US is comfortable with him.

(2) The one percent likelihood: Somebody else from the khakis replaces him. No big deal – just set your clocks back to 1999 – rewind and start the replay!

I feel depressed and I am not even a Pakistani!

:(

interesting write-up on the cj by fridaytimes.......when i was in pakistan recently, i heard something interesting a bout this cj.........the police was extremely scared of him......he used to call senior police officers into court and tear them apart.......they were afraid of entering his court.........

``Mr Chaudhry, unlike his not-so-illustrious predecessors, has been stepping on the toes of the establishment for many months now. He shot down the New Murree scheme and Basant so beloved of the Punjab chief minister. He overruled the privatization of the Pakistan Steel Mills so beloved of the prime minister. He dragged senior police officers and bureaucrats to Islamabad and castigated them for spurning the rights of the poor and exploited. He stopped avaricious property sharks and conniving officials from turning public parks into golf courses or commercial centers for the rich. He ticked off factory owners for tearing up the environment laws of the country. He stopped sham educationists from setting up sub-standard medical universities. He took “suo moto” notice of thousands of everyday social and economic injustices against the downtrodden. But his worst crime was his insistence on enforcing the writ of habeas corpus in favour of hundreds of persons who had been abducted by the secret agencies of the military and confined without due process of law. Indeed, under his stewardship, the supreme court veritably became a custodian of human and fundamental rights as enshrined in the constitution. This was anathema to the establishment which has got used to its unaccountable and domineering status. But that is not the only reason why he had to go.``

My message to President of Pakistan through his website

Subject: Chief Justice
The one reading this message:

If you have the slightest of courage and an iota of shame, kindly forward my message to the people concerned.

I bet, I challenge you to find me a single Pakistani - beyond the filth Pervez Musharraf has gathered around him of course – who is not spitting and cursing the top command of Pak Fauj.

To be very honest, we have come to realize that Pervez Musharraf personally is very much involved in the ongoing loot of public money. He himself takes a part of the plunder [maal-e-ghanimat in military jargon].

The shameful sale of Pakistan Steel Mills is proof of my claim. Shaukat Aziz was previously money laundering for Zardari and Co. Today he collects “batha” for Pervez Musharraf.

The PSM robbery (and all other dubios deals going on) was definitely not possible without personal approval of Musharraf. Every primary school student understands very well what is going on.

Not a single institution is left in the country that has not been crushed under the filth of GHQ.

I swear to God that I have never felt this much repulsion for anything what I am doing right now for you people.

Take my words for it, there will be no one to shed tears when people will be digging you out from your pitholes and chasing you like mad dogs.

Re: # 11

Thanks for your advice, however, the issue is not limited to CJ only and by standing up and raising once voice does not necessarily means taking to streets. our concern should be related to issues not a person or a group. I do agree with you that we should let the justice prevail. However, we know for a fact our smart leader has made number of foolish mistakes and also have no interest in supremacy of justice, human rights and values. If our current leadership had the will and even the desire we should have seen some changes to our social, political and economic condition. We have seen time and time again the institution which is represented by our smart leader has been instrumental in dismantling of our civil institutions.

i somehow suspect there must be some sexual impropriety type allegations..that is why its kept so hush-hush...or the CJ would have leaked it.

Re: # 10
AbbasJeffery Yar:

Before you get possessed by emotions and take to street, why don`t you wait for the verdict - outcome of the trial? Ther may be indeed real evidence of corruption and micconduct of the judge. Why not wait and see if other judges examine the case through legal and orderly process or become simply collaborators and uphold law of necessity? Afterall you can not condemn all judges.

General President Musharaff is supposed to be the smartest among all military rulers of Pakistan. Do you think he would make a fool of himself when times are running rough nowadays in Pakistan?



Corruption in judiciary. lawyers and miscarriage of justice etc. is nothing new in every society. So wait wait!

Kamath

Washington

These events should not have come as a surprise to our nation as they the same people who illegal removed a democratically elected government and these acts were given legitimacy by the same institution which is under attack. We as nation have allowed these military goons to run our lives, systemically dismantle the civil institution’s. As a nation specially the middle class (whatever is left) allow this to happen for such a longtime. They have been instrumental and successful in creating the nationalist organization, the religious fundamentalist, and so called political elite’s and constitution experts who serve as there agents. I wish and hope that we as nation wake up and rise to occasion to stand for our rights, safe guard our institution which makes nations and society civil. I believe the time has come and we are a crossroad to make a decision to weather we continue to allow these goon’s to run us or forever change the course of our nation and country and join the league of civil nations.

jang #1: ``i just dont get it. there are allegations against the cj, and legal method is to refer the matter to his peers. this is one legal thing done by the gormint ...``

......these allegations have been around for a while......why not pass them on earlier.....why now?.....obviously it is politically motivated, which is clear to the public.....in addition, what are the allegations?.......they have not been disclosed.......of the ones that are being discussed, the only one that has any feet is that his son was transferred into the police, though a side door......granted a crime in places like the usa......but in pakistan, a sifarish for a son is standard procedure.......every single person does it.......if this is the only thing one can find against such a senior govt. figure, it actually indicates that the guy was a pretty honest man!.......

...in addition, it is illegal to suspend a chief justice and put him in house arrest....the constitution allows raising a case against him, but not suspending or jailing him....much like when impeachment against a president is started, he remains the president, untill actually impeached........

``there were many other illegal ones but there was not this much hue and cry (on the chowk). anyhoo..``

......so far the victims of these illegalities had generally been politicians.....people don`t have sympathy for politicians in pakistan....so when nawaz sharif was locked, as constitutionally illegaly as the cj has been, people actually celebrated.........due to this, no one has come on the street against musharraf, if the politicians are doing the calling.....

......however, as i highlighted earlier, people in pakistan still have some respect for the judiciary......so when this happened, people did respond.......while they would not respond when this happened to nawaz and bb etc........

......in addition, you have to look at the issue under discussion.......the cj had told the govt. to bring to court all the people whom it had arrested and who had then disappeared.....a great deal of them, if not most of them, are related to the GWOT......musharraf picks them and then they disappear.......they are tortured by the military and/or are handed to the us authorities.....people have become very anti-usa and anti-musharraf, ever since he has allowed the usa to bomb waziristan........the usa has, in the process killed a family and a whole set of students in a school.......i doubt the usa would bomb an american school, even if had info that timothy mcveigh was hiding there......people are also angry at musharraf for picking up pakistani citizens and handing them to the usa for GWOT.......without a trial....

.......this has further increased their support for the cj, since he was ruling against this.....

``since the islamic parties, mqm (read those with street power) and the US state dept are with musharaff things are cool.``

islamic parties are no longer with musharraf......they are his targets now, and he is theirs......the us state dept still fully supports him and will stop its, ``do more`` legislations if they see him getting weak.......mqm is with him but it is sitting on the fence....it will flip if it sees him getting weak.......

.......the real key group is ppp....it has the largest following in pakistan......what will it do......it could go either way......

Re: # 6

Bhai, I agree with you totally. I do not have much faith either that society is still capable of launching a massive political uprising. So it is going to be either of two extremes - one, that is the scenario that you present i.e. it will lose steam over time; and two, which I anticipate, that is a civil war. I think that in our society the doors of politics have been welded shut and instruments of activist politicss are closed for good.

In this hopeless scenario, Iftekhar Ch. can become a Messiah; he has a potential te be; if he holds his ground.

Re: # 5
Though the possibility cannot be rules out for such a wishful blindness on both sides, but given the history of CJP and that the matter has gone beyond the point of return, it sems unlikely that the two men would want to reconcile.

The man who calls himself the President, certainly most Pakistanis dont accept him as that, appears to be too confident of what he is doing. To make matters worse he has a group of clowns (one of the journalists called a sitting minister that..and rightfully so) who have only his interest to serve. The goverment and the President a.k.a CEO a.k.a Army General a.k.a. Loser, continue to state that the matter is being politicized. Even if it is, why not when they as politicians ( not including the President as a politician - I wonder if he knows what he really is) appear to be masters of constitution.

What my true worry is that the people in general, and some protesting groups (lawyers etc) in particular, over time may lose interest in the whole thing and the government will get its way. All those who have said that this is the deining moment, how true they are, and hopefully people will not back off from their protests no matter how long it takes. The General has single handedly destryed every civil (and military to some extent) institution in the country. Many can argue that he did the right thing. The essence of the system on which the country ran, however stands destroyed. I never knew that in our military academies these boys are taught how to run countries instead of defending them.

What really bothers me is a scenario where CJ and dictator strike a u-scratch-mine-I-scratch-urs deal after this debacle. There will be face saving of course; by judicial council summarily examining charges against CJ and finding him not guilty of any impropriety and in return Cj would ``forgive and forget`` the President`s reference against him by saying that ``President acted constitutionally and with in his powers; but since no harm done lets bygone be bygones``.

If this situation happens then dictator will cash the ``respect`` earned by CJ to legitimize his own dictatorship in the next general elections and his own ``election` by current assemblies by a seal of approval from CJ. Everybody understands how CJ would be made a `larger than life`` figure in the history of judiciary by the propagandists before that happens.

I think Iftekhar Chowdry bears the burden of entire nation upon himself. His conduct in the comming days might become the fate of this nation for many decades to come.

#3 Sadia you are being reactive.
Eitherway it suits the President. He will wriggle out anyway. He is someone who plans an exit strategy before he puts a plan into action.

Re: # 1
Dear jang,

As you might be aware, maulana`s along with the entire opposition is calling for country wide strike on Friday. However, MQM prefers not to choose sides when the matter is still controversial, not just in the said matter but since they started being `politically correct`. American senate has passed a bill today asking for `fair and just election and democracy in Pakistan`, not very likely under current crisis. So our dear President is not as safe as we might like to think he is.