Justice, Judiciary and Journalist

These events should not have come as a surprise to our nation as they the same people who illegal removed a democratically elected government and these acts were given legitimacy by the same institution which is under attack. We as nation have allowed these military goons to run our lives, systemically dismantle the civil institution’s. As a nation specially the middle class (whatever is left) allow this to happen for such a longtime. They have been instrumental and successful in creating the nationalist organization, the religious fundamentalist, and so called political elite’s and constitution experts who serve as there agents. I wish and hope that we as nation wake up and rise to occasion to stand for our rights, safe guard our institution which makes nations and society civil. I believe the time has come and we are a crossroad to make a decision to weather we continue to allow these goon’s to run us or forever change the course of our nation and country and join the league of civil nations.

jang #1: ``i just dont get it. there are allegations against the cj, and legal method is to refer the matter to his peers. this is one legal thing done by the gormint ...``

......these allegations have been around for a while......why not pass them on earlier.....why now?.....obviously it is politically motivated, which is clear to the public.....in addition, what are the allegations?.......they have not been disclosed.......of the ones that are being discussed, the only one that has any feet is that his son was transferred into the police, though a side door......granted a crime in places like the usa......but in pakistan, a sifarish for a son is standard procedure.......every single person does it.......if this is the only thing one can find against such a senior govt. figure, it actually indicates that the guy was a pretty honest man!.......

...in addition, it is illegal to suspend a chief justice and put him in house arrest....the constitution allows raising a case against him, but not suspending or jailing him....much like when impeachment against a president is started, he remains the president, untill actually impeached........

``there were many other illegal ones but there was not this much hue and cry (on the chowk). anyhoo..``

......so far the victims of these illegalities had generally been politicians.....people don`t have sympathy for politicians in pakistan....so when nawaz sharif was locked, as constitutionally illegaly as the cj has been, people actually celebrated.........due to this, no one has come on the street against musharraf, if the politicians are doing the calling.....

......however, as i highlighted earlier, people in pakistan still have some respect for the judiciary......so when this happened, people did respond.......while they would not respond when this happened to nawaz and bb etc........

......in addition, you have to look at the issue under discussion.......the cj had told the govt. to bring to court all the people whom it had arrested and who had then disappeared.....a great deal of them, if not most of them, are related to the GWOT......musharraf picks them and then they disappear.......they are tortured by the military and/or are handed to the us authorities.....people have become very anti-usa and anti-musharraf, ever since he has allowed the usa to bomb waziristan........the usa has, in the process killed a family and a whole set of students in a school.......i doubt the usa would bomb an american school, even if had info that timothy mcveigh was hiding there......people are also angry at musharraf for picking up pakistani citizens and handing them to the usa for GWOT.......without a trial....

.......this has further increased their support for the cj, since he was ruling against this.....

``since the islamic parties, mqm (read those with street power) and the US state dept are with musharaff things are cool.``

islamic parties are no longer with musharraf......they are his targets now, and he is theirs......the us state dept still fully supports him and will stop its, ``do more`` legislations if they see him getting weak.......mqm is with him but it is sitting on the fence....it will flip if it sees him getting weak.......

.......the real key group is ppp....it has the largest following in pakistan......what will it do......it could go either way......

Re: # 6

Bhai, I agree with you totally. I do not have much faith either that society is still capable of launching a massive political uprising. So it is going to be either of two extremes - one, that is the scenario that you present i.e. it will lose steam over time; and two, which I anticipate, that is a civil war. I think that in our society the doors of politics have been welded shut and instruments of activist politicss are closed for good.

In this hopeless scenario, Iftekhar Ch. can become a Messiah; he has a potential te be; if he holds his ground.

Re: # 5
Though the possibility cannot be rules out for such a wishful blindness on both sides, but given the history of CJP and that the matter has gone beyond the point of return, it sems unlikely that the two men would want to reconcile.

The man who calls himself the President, certainly most Pakistanis dont accept him as that, appears to be too confident of what he is doing. To make matters worse he has a group of clowns (one of the journalists called a sitting minister that..and rightfully so) who have only his interest to serve. The goverment and the President a.k.a CEO a.k.a Army General a.k.a. Loser, continue to state that the matter is being politicized. Even if it is, why not when they as politicians ( not including the President as a politician - I wonder if he knows what he really is) appear to be masters of constitution.

What my true worry is that the people in general, and some protesting groups (lawyers etc) in particular, over time may lose interest in the whole thing and the government will get its way. All those who have said that this is the deining moment, how true they are, and hopefully people will not back off from their protests no matter how long it takes. The General has single handedly destryed every civil (and military to some extent) institution in the country. Many can argue that he did the right thing. The essence of the system on which the country ran, however stands destroyed. I never knew that in our military academies these boys are taught how to run countries instead of defending them.

What really bothers me is a scenario where CJ and dictator strike a u-scratch-mine-I-scratch-urs deal after this debacle. There will be face saving of course; by judicial council summarily examining charges against CJ and finding him not guilty of any impropriety and in return Cj would ``forgive and forget`` the President`s reference against him by saying that ``President acted constitutionally and with in his powers; but since no harm done lets bygone be bygones``.

If this situation happens then dictator will cash the ``respect`` earned by CJ to legitimize his own dictatorship in the next general elections and his own ``election` by current assemblies by a seal of approval from CJ. Everybody understands how CJ would be made a `larger than life`` figure in the history of judiciary by the propagandists before that happens.

I think Iftekhar Chowdry bears the burden of entire nation upon himself. His conduct in the comming days might become the fate of this nation for many decades to come.

#3 Sadia you are being reactive.
Eitherway it suits the President. He will wriggle out anyway. He is someone who plans an exit strategy before he puts a plan into action.

Re: # 1
Dear jang,

As you might be aware, maulana`s along with the entire opposition is calling for country wide strike on Friday. However, MQM prefers not to choose sides when the matter is still controversial, not just in the said matter but since they started being `politically correct`. American senate has passed a bill today asking for `fair and just election and democracy in Pakistan`, not very likely under current crisis. So our dear President is not as safe as we might like to think he is.

Lets fend off the temptation to be utopian. Lets face realities.
Judiciary in Pakistan is another institution that needs a complete overhaul.

It laid the foundations of the `Law of Nessecity` and failed forever to ever invoke the Precedence of Previous Law.

It voluntarily (albeit brief cases carried by Tarrar) brought down a Chief Justice who single handedly wanted to take on the politicians and establishment for making the constitution a Joke.

Now Chaudary`s own colleagues sit in judgement over him.

Day in and Day out, Lower Courts churn out dubious judgements based on which way the cash flows.

In the final analysis, Chaudary may come out clean and everyone will say, `we respect the verdict`. If this happens than the next elections may find a new alliance. MMA will be traded off for PPPPPPPPP.

i just dont get it. there are allegations against the cj, and legal method is to refer the matter to his peers. this is one legal thing done by the gormint ...there were many other illegal ones but there was not this much hue and cry (on the chowk). anyhoo..since the islamic parties, mqm (read those with street power) and the US state dept are with musharaff things are cool.