Men in Khaki

#53 bjkumar: he does make some valid points. but he ignores some significant points and so does not have any actionable conclusion to offer.

Specifically, he ignores the distinction between emphasizing the ``muslim identity`` vs. criminal actions in the name of islam. Thus, if someone puts on a headscarf (as he laments is happening in egypt), that does not mean she is going to blow herself up. I personally consider this ``muslim identity`` to be rooted in the ``tribal mentality`` - the same mentality that one sees on chowk in spades. While regrettable, it is not criminal.

similarly, while his warning against attempts to introduce the sharia (read: writ laws that are not subject to the popular will expressed through the democratic process) is I think valid - but again, there is no broad-based support to it, certainly not in Pakistan where ``hadood laws`` are widely condemned as being gimmicks by military dictators.

These are my two cents. What do you think?

Tauheed sahib, is Geneive Abdo on the dot?

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A More Islamic Islam

By Geneive Abdo
Saturday, March 17, 2007; A19
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A small group of self-proclaimed secular Muslims from North America and elsewhere gathered in St. Petersburg recently for what they billed as a new global movement to correct the assumed wrongs of Islam and call for an Islamic Reformation.

Across the state in Fort Lauderdale, Muslim leaders from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the Washington-based advocacy group whose members the ``secular`` Muslims claim are radicals, denounced any notion of a Reformation as another attempt by the West to impose its history and philosophy on the Islamic world.

The self-proclaimed secularists represent only a small minority of Muslims. The views among religious Muslims from CAIR more closely reflect the views of the majority, not only in the United States but worldwide. Yet Western media, governments and neoconservative pundits pay more attention to the secular minority.

The St. Petersburg convention is but one example: It was carried live on Glenn Beck`s conservative CNN show. Some of the organizers and speakers at the convention are well known thanks to the media spotlight: Irshad Manji, author of ``The Trouble With Islam,`` and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the former Dutch parliamentarian and author of ``Infidel,`` were but a few there claiming to have suffered personally at the hands of ``radical`` Islam. One participant, Wafa Sultan, declared on Glenn Beck`s show that she doesn`t ``see any difference between radical Islam and regular Islam.``

The secular Muslim agenda is promoted because these ideas reflect a Western vision for the future of Islam. Since the Sept. 11 attacks, everyone from high-ranking officials in the Bush administration to the author Salman Rushdie has prescribed a preferred remedy for Islam: Reform the faith so it is imbued with Western values -- the privatization of religion, the flourishing of Western-style democracy -- and rulers who are secular, not religious, Muslims. The problem with this prescription is that it is divorced from reality. It is built upon the principle that if Muslims are fed a steady diet of Western influence, they, too, will embrace modernity, secularism and everything else the West has to offer.

Consider the facts: Islamic revivalism has spread across the globe in the past 30 years from the Middle East to parts of Africa. In Egypt, it is hard to find a woman on the street who does not wear a headscarf. Islamic political groups and movements are on the rise -- from Hezbollah in Lebanon, to Hamas in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Even in the United States, more and more American Muslims, particularly the young, are embracing Islam and religious symbolism in ways their more secular, immigrant parents did not.

I traveled to Florida to serve as the keynote speaker at an annual convention hosted by CAIR. On my way to the event, I spoke with Imam Siraj Wahaj, a charismatic intellectual from the Masjid Al-Taqwa in Brooklyn who has thousands of followers here and abroad. His words summarized the aspirations of mainstream Muslims in the United States and around the globe: ``What we need to do is borrow those attributes from the West that we admire and reject those that we don`t. That is the wave of the future.``

Already, signs support Imam Wahaj`s words. Muslims living in the West and those in the Islamic world are searching for this middle ground -- one that fuses aspects of globalization with the Islamic tradition. For example, Muslim women have far greater access to higher education today than ever before. In Iran, there are more women than men in universities, a first in the country`s history. But as increasing numbers of Muslim women become more educated, majorities are becoming more religious while also taking part in what are called Islamic feminist movements, which stretch from Egypt to Turkey and Morocco.

These women, who often wear headscarves to express their religiosity, have found this gray area between modernity and traditionalism. They are fighting for more rights to participate in politics and greater equality in ``personal status`` laws -- the right to gain custody of children or to initiate divorce -- but also view Islam as their moral compass.

Similarly, the political future of the Arab world is likely to consist of Islamic parties that are far less tolerant of what has historically been the U.S. foreign policy agenda in the region and that domestically are far more committed to implementing sharia law in varying degrees.

In Europe and the United States, where Muslims have maximum exposure to Western culture, they are increasingly embracing Islamic values. In Britain, a growing number of Muslims advocate creating a court system based upon Islamic principles.

What all this means is that Western hopes for full integration by Muslims in the West are unlikely to be realized and that the future of the Islamic world will be much more Islamic than Western.

Instead of championing the loud voices of the secular minority who are capturing media attention with their conferences, manifestos and memoirs, the United States would be wise instead to pay more attention to the far less loquacious majority.

Geneive Abdo is the author of ``Mecca and Main Street: Muslim Life in America After 9/11.``

#49 hamidm: is there anything about your identity that you are proud of? and please remember that you are at best talking of your own experiences only when saying that all muslims take the lota to work, or that panjabis have an inferiority complex, or when saying that a white man can do no wrong. Where does all this negative energy come from??

#49

`the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people `

This is now changing... you will see in a generation or two people will be going back to Punjabi language... in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu in the house they only speak it at school or wherever it is required, but we never speak in Urdu to each other... From my frequent visits to Pak, i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, this is also helped with the easing of visas for Punjabi ppl from India...

slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over...

#47 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 6:29am PT

Hamidm2 sahib, I wish to thank you for your benevolence toward my fellow Bihari here whose well-being I am equally (or even more) concerned about. This “siding with the military dictator” is surely a temporary aberration due to unavoidable circumstances. When all the choices are terrible, sometimes the good folks have to settle for the less than ideal! I believe you should reason with your soulmate – the Tauheed sahib, to hold back his barbed stingers which seem to have caused most of the injuries to the Salim – and start showing him the understanding that he is entitled to!

I have also noticed that – unlike the other Chowkies, you have been less than fulsome in praising the Manto for this latest feather in his cap – this scalp of the BBC now under his belt, safely tucked away – where you can look at (but not touch) and only feel jealous! Please do not feel jealous.

Needless to say, this is just the right time for all the overseas Pakistani patriots to come together and join hands and strike one for the democratic forces of that country by donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Manto – after whatever is left after donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Honorable Eatallofus Towns! :)

Re: # 42

nasah mian,

..... to tell you the sordid truth, the poor girl got so much grief over this `bagharee` dal business that she adopted the simple `tarka` even though she continues to use the royal `hum` while addressing her lowly mixed breed relatives as `tu` and `tum`.......... when kids were asked:``where is auntie s?``.... they would promptly reply, `` oh, she is running with the dal - dal ko bhaga rahee hain`` ........ but inspite of the dal business, the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people .......

Re: # 45

ahmedmadani, i hope what you written is tongue in cheek. Otherwise, I believe our so call intelligentsia needs to have a reality check.

I just don`t understand why does Musharraf wants to go through the sham of democracy. Just declare himself dictator (cause he surely acts like one) in supreme national interest. That way he can keep abducting people,privatize assets, sell and allot property in Gwadar, clamp down on freedom of press in supreme national interests and people like you and me can be assured that its all for the betterment of country.

Re: # 44

salim mian,

...... either way, you have lost it ! ........ i can`t believe that you are now siding with the mohajir military dictator because you think the ppps are against him ......... what are the chaudaries of gujarat - germans ? ......... in any case, since altaf bhai is distancing himself from mushy you might change your mind tomorrow .........

...... just to show that there are no hard feelings, i still support the repatriation of stranded biharis in bangladesh, even though we already have a railways minister just as good as lallu and i don`t think we need any more pan shops ..............

#40 GT

[I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know.]

Yes, you are not SAYING it, merely planting a hint through this “do not know” bit – just like any one of the countless (and what I can only call dishonest) interactors and writers on this site – creating false shadows for others to chase on – this site’s reason for being, from all appearances.

The Bengali communists have committed quite a few idiocies in their time – including burning movie halls because a contemporary movie contained such pearls of wisdom as “Chao, Mao, Kao – sir jhukaao!” and yet surprisingly, many of their “leaders” from those times have perhaps sneaked into the USA and similar places – leading a comparatively cushy life! But they should not be credited for the 1971 war.

That baby was fathered and carried throgh its nine-month term by the West Pakistanis all by themselves!

The basic reasons and the chronology of events leading to the 1971 war is well known and well documented.

And if someday the (West) Pakistanis will develop the courage and the testicular fortitude, they may even open up and read the Hamidur Rehman report, too.

Woh subhaa kabhie to aayegi…

But nobody is holding their breath for that great day to arrive! :)

Re: # 31
I had written same thing, about picture of lawyer throwing brick to kill policeman. This is not going to lead to democracy but ancharchy and disruption. All this troubles started as CJ wanted to become executive boss.
PM Aziz as a PM has right to make economy decision. He wanted to privatise PSM so it start bleeding of money. It is white elephant producing misery and poverty. And he has contracted eith Arab company and russian co to sell that PSM. Judge stopped this plan. He should not get involved in such thing. Politics is money and more money. that was wrong doing. Now decision was taken at highest level od president and PM and elected people should have right to whatever they want about PSM.
Secondly missing people he should have not encouraged litigation. Things are not best. Now its open secret many missing people are transferred by GOP to usa prison in Cuba. So for national interest CJ should have used commonsense and avoided prooblems of missing people.
There is possibility of war or some action against Iran by USA so in such situation its better to have stability. Constitution is fine book and nothing more or less than useless unuseful impractical book. Hopw CJ asks nations forgiveness and resigns so national life goes on. Most of lawyer spent most of time defending rich and corroupt people, they are hired guns. Lawyers are disgusting bunch ( mohatma was one of them), They will kill loot and cheat any body for money, bunch of hooligans stone throwers.

#35 by hamidm2 on March 16, 2007 6:31pm PT
{``Re: # 25
salim mian,
........... even though i am one of your most ardent admirers ..... you are loosing it ``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Thank you for your kind comments. Let me state you too rank right up there with Maulana Urstruly in my books.
Please clarify what you found so stupid in my post #25. I was merely exchanging demographic data with Mr. Zeemax concerning the number of Urdu/Hindi speakers in the neighborhood in response to his claim about ``majority`` rule.

``loosing`` it - really Hamidum Sahib? Please tell me, were all of you PPP fellows instructed in English by the same professor at ``Goremint`` College? ``Lose`` is what Maulana Urstruly does on Chowk, ``loose`` is more apropos for Lahoris. :)

Ghauri sahib -- great piece. one day all tyrants, dictators overreach themselves and get busted.

Re: # 12

``.....for the past twenty years we have been using `behkar` on our dal instead of the good old punjabim `tarka`.....``

hamidm -- the word is `baghaar` -- normally we would say that -- dal agar `bagharee` nu gayee to phir voh `tarkay` gi keyaa...:)

but her on Chowk looks like the CJ batle has moved to a war between `Baghaar` vs `Tarka`......:)

#39#40
GT thank you for your detailed account of the story of that region and would agree with it very much

Since I have time to kill, let me tell you guys another story. A story which follows up on the turbulent 60s in Bengal and a story which might interest my Pakistani friends here in chowk. For it has to do with the 71 war.

Bengal was in flames. Jungal Sauthal (spelling?) and Kanu Sanyal threw open the gates of radical communism in North Bengal. The naxalites were born. They drew their name from a village called Naxalbari where the fire of the ``revolution`` was lit. ``Bhulbo pari babar nam, bhulbo na Vietnam`` (I may forget my father`s name but I shall not forget Vietnam) was the battle cry. Students, even from Presidency College Calcutta, left their classes in droves and joined the movement. (Later on I was taught by one of these students who broke Amartya Sen`s B.A. record from jail). There was violence all around. The chief minister S. S. Ray used the police to kill, maim and torture the naxalites. The naxals were also not far behind. I do not know whether wikipedia records it, but interested people may try to get informed about the ``Sai bari massacre``.

The flame was spreading. East Pakistan was lit by cinders and the cold winds from the Himalayas spread the flame. China declared that ``Spring Thunder had broken over India``. This late shower lead to the sprouting of communist leaders in East Pakistan. Along with the flow of refugees came the communists. They bloated the ranks of the naxalites and they were lead by a charismatic leader called ``Tiger Siddiquie`` (spelling?; plus I do not know what happened to this guy, actually I just know his name and nothing more than that). S.S. Ray was desperate, he wanted the menace of the naxalites to end. He wanted Indira`s help, the police were not enough! He wanted Indira to get into East Pakistan to stop the flow of communists! Did Indira heed the call? I do not know.

I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know. But people like arjun and HP could garnish (positively or negatively) this thesis. However, I know one thing - contemporary research on history stems from the present perception of reality, people hardly go back and try to understand how people THOUGHT back then in what we call history. What do I know .... these are stories told by uncles and aunts who lived in strange lands and in strange times ... way back in HISTORY.

To those who are interested about the recent killings in Bengal (Warning, long post):

The communists came to power in Bengal in the mid seventies and have been ruling the state since then. They implemented something which has not been implemented anywhere else in India - Land Reforms. That is, land was transferred to those who were cultivating the land. But there was a catch, and a big one at that. The cultivators had only use rights and heriditary rights but not property rights. So the cultivator could not sell the land. This bound peasants all over Bengal to the party apparatus. The communists hit a jackpot!

Around the late eighties things began to change. It had to do with fertilizer and pesticides. Crop patterns started changing and cultivators started shifting to the production of vegetables especially in central Bengal. The surplus income, coupled with education, encouraged migration to `office jobs`. The drain of labor encouraged the employment of, amongst others, illegal migrants from Bangladesh. The communists (as well as the congress in places like Malda) found a larger vote bank and things went on quite smoothly. The communists and the congress opposed the chauvanistic students movement in Assam against the illegal Bangladeshis.

But then came fundamentalism. The poor migrants from Bangladesh were treated like dirt anyways, their solace came from religious parties. Along with the growth of Islamic fundamentalism came Hindu fundamentalism fostered by the BJP. The communists saw evidence of this from nearby Assam and from Bengal itself. It was time to change priorities. The change in the aspirations of their traditional vote bank had to be accomodated. Therefore the change in focus to industrialization. This change has been very rapid creating confusion and disenchantment in the party cadres.

A minor aspect of industrialization is the procurement of land. Recall that property rights were taken away. So it was quite easy for the government, or so they thought, to `compensate` the farmers to give up their use rights. Things actually went quite well for the govt. in Singur where almost all cultivators (who were hardly cultivating anymore by themselves) readily sold their use rights. But there was a glitch, as always - there were the real cultivators who went uncompensated. Enter Mamta B. of the Trinamool Congress. She got the `cultivators` organized and we have history repeating itself all over again. What history you ask. The history under S.S.Ray which brought the CPM into power, wherein hundreds if not thousands were killed by the govt. and the naxalites.