Men in Khaki

Re: # 52

tahmed mian,

yiou ask: ``is there anything about your identity that you are proud of?``

........ no, not really? ..... actually, come to think of it, i really don`t have an identity and don`t want one either ......... when i was growing up my maternal grandfather used to tease me for being the son of a `teez-mar` (gas-passing) `dal-khor` punjabi so i never wanted to be identified as a punjabi ....... but then he also used to say things like ``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast `` (urdu is like milk, farsi is milk and sugar and pushtu is like a donkey`s fart`) - i think he said these cruel things because he was a dari speaker and grandma was a pukhtu speaker ............ but it turned me off niswar and i don`t want to be identified as a pathan either ........

....... and even though i am properly circumcised and finished the koran many times, i don`t want to be identified as a muslim ...... why? .... the answer is obvious - half of them are suicidal and the other half is homicidal ........ and that is in addition to the problems with personal hygiene and facial hair (which also explains my aversion to being identified as a sikh) ........ i had toyed with the idea of reverting to hindooism and walking tall and proud as a shining indian, until i ran into the heeng eating horrible hindoos ........... so, i remain a man without an identity ...........

Re: # 58 Hamidm2
You are not alone. This guy (Syed Jamaluddin) may agree with you.

#49

`the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people `

This is now changing... you will see in a generation or two people will be going back to Punjabi language... in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu in the house they only speak it at school or wherever it is required, but we never speak in Urdu to each other... From my frequent visits to Pak, i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, this is also helped with the easing of visas for Punjabi ppl from India...

slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over...

#47 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 6:29am PT

Hamidm2 sahib, I wish to thank you for your benevolence toward my fellow Bihari here whose well-being I am equally (or even more) concerned about. This “siding with the military dictator” is surely a temporary aberration due to unavoidable circumstances. When all the choices are terrible, sometimes the good folks have to settle for the less than ideal! I believe you should reason with your soulmate – the Tauheed sahib, to hold back his barbed stingers which seem to have caused most of the injuries to the Salim – and start showing him the understanding that he is entitled to!

I have also noticed that – unlike the other Chowkies, you have been less than fulsome in praising the Manto for this latest feather in his cap – this scalp of the BBC now under his belt, safely tucked away – where you can look at (but not touch) and only feel jealous! Please do not feel jealous.

Needless to say, this is just the right time for all the overseas Pakistani patriots to come together and join hands and strike one for the democratic forces of that country by donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Manto – after whatever is left after donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Honorable Eatallofus Towns! :)

Re: # 50

bj,

.... thanks for reminding me to praise ylh ..... i have always been one of his staunchest supporters and have great hopes for the young man .......... i wish him the best in his crusade for democracy in pakistan and campaign against nudity across the border ........

ylh zindabad !
pakistan zindabad !

#40 GT

[I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know.]

Yes, you are not SAYING it, merely planting a hint through this “do not know” bit – just like any one of the countless (and what I can only call dishonest) interactors and writers on this site – creating false shadows for others to chase on – this site’s reason for being, from all appearances.

The Bengali communists have committed quite a few idiocies in their time – including burning movie halls because a contemporary movie contained such pearls of wisdom as “Chao, Mao, Kao – sir jhukaao!” and yet surprisingly, many of their “leaders” from those times have perhaps sneaked into the USA and similar places – leading a comparatively cushy life! But they should not be credited for the 1971 war.

That baby was fathered and carried throgh its nine-month term by the West Pakistanis all by themselves!

The basic reasons and the chronology of events leading to the 1971 war is well known and well documented.

And if someday the (West) Pakistanis will develop the courage and the testicular fortitude, they may even open up and read the Hamidur Rehman report, too.

Woh subhaa kabhie to aayegi…

But nobody is holding their breath for that great day to arrive! :)

#35 by hamidm2 on March 16, 2007 6:31pm PT
{``Re: # 25
salim mian,
........... even though i am one of your most ardent admirers ..... you are loosing it ``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Thank you for your kind comments. Let me state you too rank right up there with Maulana Urstruly in my books.
Please clarify what you found so stupid in my post #25. I was merely exchanging demographic data with Mr. Zeemax concerning the number of Urdu/Hindi speakers in the neighborhood in response to his claim about ``majority`` rule.

``loosing`` it - really Hamidum Sahib? Please tell me, were all of you PPP fellows instructed in English by the same professor at ``Goremint`` College? ``Lose`` is what Maulana Urstruly does on Chowk, ``loose`` is more apropos for Lahoris. :)

Re: # 44

salim mian,

...... either way, you have lost it ! ........ i can`t believe that you are now siding with the mohajir military dictator because you think the ppps are against him ......... what are the chaudaries of gujarat - germans ? ......... in any case, since altaf bhai is distancing himself from mushy you might change your mind tomorrow .........

...... just to show that there are no hard feelings, i still support the repatriation of stranded biharis in bangladesh, even though we already have a railways minister just as good as lallu and i don`t think we need any more pan shops ..............

#39#40
GT thank you for your detailed account of the story of that region and would agree with it very much

Since I have time to kill, let me tell you guys another story. A story which follows up on the turbulent 60s in Bengal and a story which might interest my Pakistani friends here in chowk. For it has to do with the 71 war.

Bengal was in flames. Jungal Sauthal (spelling?) and Kanu Sanyal threw open the gates of radical communism in North Bengal. The naxalites were born. They drew their name from a village called Naxalbari where the fire of the ``revolution`` was lit. ``Bhulbo pari babar nam, bhulbo na Vietnam`` (I may forget my father`s name but I shall not forget Vietnam) was the battle cry. Students, even from Presidency College Calcutta, left their classes in droves and joined the movement. (Later on I was taught by one of these students who broke Amartya Sen`s B.A. record from jail). There was violence all around. The chief minister S. S. Ray used the police to kill, maim and torture the naxalites. The naxals were also not far behind. I do not know whether wikipedia records it, but interested people may try to get informed about the ``Sai bari massacre``.

The flame was spreading. East Pakistan was lit by cinders and the cold winds from the Himalayas spread the flame. China declared that ``Spring Thunder had broken over India``. This late shower lead to the sprouting of communist leaders in East Pakistan. Along with the flow of refugees came the communists. They bloated the ranks of the naxalites and they were lead by a charismatic leader called ``Tiger Siddiquie`` (spelling?; plus I do not know what happened to this guy, actually I just know his name and nothing more than that). S.S. Ray was desperate, he wanted the menace of the naxalites to end. He wanted Indira`s help, the police were not enough! He wanted Indira to get into East Pakistan to stop the flow of communists! Did Indira heed the call? I do not know.

I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know. But people like arjun and HP could garnish (positively or negatively) this thesis. However, I know one thing - contemporary research on history stems from the present perception of reality, people hardly go back and try to understand how people THOUGHT back then in what we call history. What do I know .... these are stories told by uncles and aunts who lived in strange lands and in strange times ... way back in HISTORY.

To those who are interested about the recent killings in Bengal (Warning, long post):

The communists came to power in Bengal in the mid seventies and have been ruling the state since then. They implemented something which has not been implemented anywhere else in India - Land Reforms. That is, land was transferred to those who were cultivating the land. But there was a catch, and a big one at that. The cultivators had only use rights and heriditary rights but not property rights. So the cultivator could not sell the land. This bound peasants all over Bengal to the party apparatus. The communists hit a jackpot!

Around the late eighties things began to change. It had to do with fertilizer and pesticides. Crop patterns started changing and cultivators started shifting to the production of vegetables especially in central Bengal. The surplus income, coupled with education, encouraged migration to `office jobs`. The drain of labor encouraged the employment of, amongst others, illegal migrants from Bangladesh. The communists (as well as the congress in places like Malda) found a larger vote bank and things went on quite smoothly. The communists and the congress opposed the chauvanistic students movement in Assam against the illegal Bangladeshis.

But then came fundamentalism. The poor migrants from Bangladesh were treated like dirt anyways, their solace came from religious parties. Along with the growth of Islamic fundamentalism came Hindu fundamentalism fostered by the BJP. The communists saw evidence of this from nearby Assam and from Bengal itself. It was time to change priorities. The change in the aspirations of their traditional vote bank had to be accomodated. Therefore the change in focus to industrialization. This change has been very rapid creating confusion and disenchantment in the party cadres.

A minor aspect of industrialization is the procurement of land. Recall that property rights were taken away. So it was quite easy for the government, or so they thought, to `compensate` the farmers to give up their use rights. Things actually went quite well for the govt. in Singur where almost all cultivators (who were hardly cultivating anymore by themselves) readily sold their use rights. But there was a glitch, as always - there were the real cultivators who went uncompensated. Enter Mamta B. of the Trinamool Congress. She got the `cultivators` organized and we have history repeating itself all over again. What history you ask. The history under S.S.Ray which brought the CPM into power, wherein hundreds if not thousands were killed by the govt. and the naxalites.

Also, if I remember correctly,

(1) Didn`t the Mushy take power in a clear violation of the Pakistani constitution?

(2) Didn`t the Pakistani Supreme Court validate his self-elevation to the post? So why this charade of an ``independent`` judiciary?!!

(3) Didn`t the voters of Pakistan confirm his appointment by over 90 percent majority? How many votes can the Supreme Court judges gather?

Undemocratic? Yes. But what IS democratic over there?!

I have no position on this whole CJP issue of who is right and who is wrong and whether justice is being suppressed or whether the real power center is simply being reaffirmed. I wish the Justice Chaudhry the best, as I do the country at large, and perhaps as I do even mian Mushy – who is after all, only a benign dictator.

Irrespective of the personal honesty of the CJP, the fact is that every one of those Supreme Court judges has taken an oath of loyalty – to the army. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong – but does not that mean that the army IS the boss – and if you disagree with the boss, aren’t you supposed to quit rather than try sneaky moves – legislating from the bench and the like?! At least that is how it works in the corporate world – so why would the Chief Executive-e-Pakistan settle for any less?

In all of this commotion, somehow the sight is being lost of the fact that the average Pakistani has NO say in any of this stuff. He or she continues with the daily grind and struggle. And the sad truth is that the average Pakistani is now highly apathetic – he or she does not even care any more!

On a lighter note, even I have written “open letters” to the General Mushy, right here on this web-site (a bit risky, but poor Yasser has often needed to be bailed out after what he has written of the General’s allegedly canine lineage in the past)! Now I know why the General never paid any attention to my open letters – apparently he gets quite a few of these.

On a “brighter” note – at least certain chowkies got some international media attention out of this whole sorry episode.

See, even dark clouds have silver linings.

Mr. Ghori:
If you criticise Pakistan Govt at this rate, your pension might get stopped. So be careful

Kamath

THANK YOUR SELF THAT YOU LIVE In PAKISTAN AND NOT IN BENGAL OF BUDDHA(HITLER)


The Gestapo of modern day – the communist controlled cops of West Bengal butchered innocent farmers of Nandigarm. The killings were unprovoked. It was planned massacre the same way Chinese kill their own farmers. The style was that of fascist. Guess who led all that – the contemporary Buddha of India!

What happened in Nadigram requires United Nations intervention. Government of India and Indian Army will not stop the Gestapo of West Bengal. The cops in West Bengal on the order from Communists to protect oligarchs of India did the same all across the state. They killed and injured countless innocent farmers who want their land back that was snatched illegally from them. Tata wants to build $2250 car in Singur for the Asian markets! The communists want a Special Economic Zones (SEZs) in Nandigram for more tax revenues from export to the West. Tata and communists joined hands to illegally steal lands from the poor farmers. Boeing Corporation of America was thrilled to have Tata fly the F18!

The massacre was typical the way the fascists controlled the crowd and opposition in Hitler’s Germany. Buddhadev Bhattacharya, the communist Chief Minister of West Bengal (known as Buddha of modern day!) is still indifferent about the cold-blooded murder of the farmers in West Bengal. Tata says he wants his cars fast from Singur so that he can buy another ‘Corus’ from Europe. The communists want money from SEZ in Nadigram - they care nothing for the farmers.

If Bush can use his powers why should not Musharaff is he more unique than his boss...

White House backtracks in row over U.S. attorneys
POSTED: 12:07 p.m. EDT, March 12, 2007
Story Highlights• Bill would end attorney general`s power to appoint prosecutors minus Senate OK
• Fired U.S. attorneys allege pressure from Justice Department, lawmakers
• Alberto Gonzales agrees to let aides testify about dismissals without subpoenas
• Reversal abrupt for administration known for standing firm despite opposition
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Slapped even by GOP allies, the Bush administration is beating an abrupt retreat on eight federal prosecutors it fired and then publicly pilloried.

Just hours after Attorney General Alberto Gonzales dismissed the hubbub as an ``overblown personnel matter,`` a Republican senator Thursday mused that Gonzales might soon suffer the same fate as the canned U.S. attorneys.

A short time later, Gonzales and his security detail shuttled to the Capitol for a private meeting on Democratic turf, bearing two offerings:


President Bush would not stand in the way of a Democratic-sponsored bill that would cancel the attorney general`s power to appoint federal prosecutors without Senate confirmation. Gonzales` Justice Department previously had dismissed the legislation as unreasonable.


There would be no need for subpoenas to compel testimony by five of Gonzales` aides involved in the firings, as the Democrats had threatened. Cloistered in the stately hideaway of Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy, D-Vermont, the attorney general assured those present that he would permit the aides to tell their stories.

It was a striking reversal for an administration noted for standing its ground even in the face of overwhelming opposition.

Gone were the department`s biting assertions that the prosecutors were a bunch of ``disgruntled employees grandstanding before Congress.``

And the department no longer tried to shrug off the uproar as ``an overblown personnel matter,`` as Gonzales had written in an opinion piece published Thursday in USA Today.

Agency officials also ceased describing majority Democrats as lawmakers who would ``would rather play politics`` than deal with facts.

The shift from offense to silence was so abrupt that one of Bush`s chief advisers who was speaking out of town apparently missed the memo.

``My view is this is unfortunately a very big attempt by some in the Congress to make a political stink about it,`` presidential adviser Karl Rove said Thursday during a speech at the University of Arkansas Clinton School of Public Service.

Back in Washington, a consensus was emerging among senators of both parties, and Gonzales himself, that the firings had been botched chiefly because the prosecutors had not been told the reasons for their dismissals.

The matter snowballed -- some of those fired complained publicly, and a senior Justice Department official warned one that further complaints in the press would force the agency to defend itself, according to an e-mail made public this week.

On Tuesday, during an eight-hour marathon of congressional hearings, the Justice Department followed through. William Moschella, principal associate deputy attorney general, publicly enumerated the reasons each prosecutor was fired, one by one.

Flash forward two days, to Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, reading Gonzales` USA Today column into the record. He paused.

``One day there will be a new attorney general, maybe sooner rather than later,`` he mused. ``But these [prosecutors] who were plastered across the newspapers all across the country, they will never recover their reputations.``

Two staunch White House allies, Sens. Jon Kyl of Arizona and Jeff Sessions of Alabama, lamented the damage to the prosecutors` resumes -- adding, however, that the uproar had been the result of poor execution rather than a political purge.

The prosecutors weren`t the only ones whose reputations suffered. One, New Mexico`s David Iglesias, said the dismissals followed calls from members of Congress -- Sen. Pete Domenici and Rep. Heather Wilson, New Mexico Republicans -- concerning sensitive political corruption investigations.

Still unclear is whether Gonzales will allow his aides to speak with the Senate panel in private or at a public hearing. The House Judiciary Committee on Thursday also demanded to speak with the officials.

They are: Michael Elston, Kyle Sampson, Monica Goodling, Bill Mercer and Mike Battle.

Sampson is Gonzales` chief of staff, Elston is staff chief to Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty and Mercer is associate attorney general. Goodling is Gonzales` senior counsel and White House liaison, and Battle is the departing director of the office that oversees the 93 U.S. attorneys.