Men in Khaki

there is no such thing as a good dictator. musharaff should go sooner rather than later.
since we are in farsi speaking mode, musharraf should be aware of this saying, `agar dar khaneh kas ast, yek harf bas ast`.

#58, Hamidum2 {``when i was growing up my maternal grandfather used to tease me for being the son of a `teez-mar` (gas-passing) `dal-khor` punjabi so i never wanted to be identified as a punjabi ....... but then he also used to say things like ``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast `` (urdu is like milk, farsi is milk and sugar and pushtu is like a donkey`s fart`)``}

Hamidum Sahib,

Kheili mamnuman...Hal-e-shoma chetor ast?
Bebakhshid, what did your wise maternal grandfather say about Punjabi? To many of us it sounds like someone shouting very loudly and painfully with marbles rolling around in his mouth.
Urdu is merely a half-hearted attempt at preserving our wonderful Farsi language and adab that was forcibly taken away from us by the British in the early 19th century. :(

#74 Ally {``Urdu is no longer just your language it is the national language and therefore everyone in the country will know some of it at least to get by... ``}

Ally,
When you PPPs cure yourself of your verbal handicap and speech impediment concerning the Q and K; Kh and K; and Gh and G sounds, please come back and tell us that Urdu is your language too. :)

Bollywood actors, including Hindu ones, have done a wonderful job in adopting Urdu as the lingua franca of the Indian entertainment world. The least you could do is to emulate their success. You guys not only massacre us in our own city, but do you have to butcher our language too?

When the going gets tough....
....the tough point to their prime minister

(From Dawn)
No personal differences with chief justice: Musharraf
...Addressing a rally in the eastern city of Pakpatan, Musharraf termed the attack on a private TV channel a conspiracy aimed at lowering his image. He said he had “no personal differences” with Justice Chaudhry, and had acted against the judge after receiving a case against him from the prime minister. “I am blamed for everything,” state-run Pakistan Television quoted him as saying.

Re: # 81 Tahmed

``“I am blamed for everything,”

That is shameful behavior on the part of the Generalissmo. A ship`s captain is ultmately responsible for its well being. Nobody put a gun to the General`s head to act on Shaukat`s `recommendation` (if indeed that was the case). But if he did, then he should accept responsibility for it and quit blaming others. Also, Musharraf successfuly blamed Nawaz for Kargil -- he is one helluva slippery eel. I say screw the el Presidente. Long live the Chief Justice!

Revolt is brewing in the ranks of Pak army, 6 corps commanders have expressed discontent with the Pervez Musharraf. It is also reported that Tariq Aziz orchestrated the attack on Geo news:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/mar/17pakcj.htm

Dear Interactors,

Does anyone think that this thing with the judiciary is actually going to make a real difference to the way power is shared in Pakistan or is it just another mini-replay of what we have seen countless times before?

It is a genuine question, serious answers only, please!

My own guess is ``no`` - but my knowledge is less expansive than every other chowkie here!

Re: bjkumar # 79

With all due to respect to the author, the article was more an emotional jab than an analysis of the situation in Pakistan and did not really address the basic issues. The unfortunate fallout of the crisis is that once again, we in Pakistan, are making the same mistake of hoisting our hopes on to a pedestal from which they will surely fall once more. The mistake in this case is that the person of the chief justice has been made into a hero and once more, we are wrongly concentrating on the personalities rather than the issues.

This crisis/situation is not about the charges filed against the chief justice of Pakistan or the dismissal of the chief justice himself, but hinge around the very basic constitutional issue about the legality of the reference itself.

The question at stake is who has the right to interpret the law in Pakistan; the judicial or execcutive branch of the government?

In my opinion, this is a unique situation, because the heart of the debate is not about sharia or liberal politics versus religious conservatism, but about consititutional law and within that, about the meaning of the idea of the separation of powers. The unique nature of the situation is that for the first time since 1947, a key political debate in Pakistan is being decided on a purely secular agrument of constitutional law and the issue of justice and not the ideology of Pakistan or the meaning of Pakistan. Whatever the final outcome of the debate, it will address the issues of balance of power and ``check and balances`` within the three branches of government in Pakistan.

Pakistan has a golden and a very rare opportunity, in the shape of the present crisis, to redefine its constitutional compass and to reassert the idea of the separation of powers that was constitutionally discredited by the judiciary itself in its legal decisions, since the 1950s, condoning extra-constitutional acts by the executive branch of the government. The opportunity does not merely come from the chance to revive the dead spirt of constitutionalism in Pakistan, but from the pleasant realization that the debate is being influenced and argued by secularists; educated members of legal community on a secular issue - constitutional law. It is for this very reason that the mainstream political parties or the religious alliance is not in the forefront of this debate and it is because of this very fact, the the politicans in Pakistan cannot use religion to score political points against the government, that this debate has assumed the proportions of pushing Pakistani politics towards a definitive point.

Will it make a difference? Yes; it will but only if the legal community in Pakistan is to able to argue the merits of consitutional issues and keep this debate limited to issues of justice and constitutionalism and does not allow the politicans to hijack this crisis for their own narrow minded interests.

Has anything changed that might a difference in the nature of political power in Pakistan?

Since 1950s, historically, the judiciary in Pakistan has acted in collboration with the executive to undermine the legislative branch but in this crisis, we are witnessing a new realignment of the judiciary with the legislative against the executive. Hence, the ratios of political power in Pakistan have already altered and for the first time in the history of Pakistan, the power of the executive branch has been checkmated.

I cannot answer about the future, but the crisis has already made a difference in Pakistani politics and from thesedifferences, we will see more ripple effects and one of these effects would be now the issue of the supremacy of parliament in Pakistan will have a constitutional momentum which was lacking since the 1950s` dismissal of the Constituent Assemby by the Governor-General of Pakistan.

It will make a difference, because Pakistani politics have turned a corner and whether turn will result in good or bad for the nation is another question. :)

Hope this answers your query.

Ciao

Regarding #77 itself regarding #74,
...and Sir Lancelot (an ALLY of King Arthur) was speechless. :)

#73 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 1:33pm PT
{``Re: # 71
salim mian,
``Maulana Urstruly`s defamation of a public figure`` ........ i am sorry, now who did he defame ?.......... i must have missed it ........ but you really shouldn`t pay too much attention to urstruly - he is a wretched soul who hates everyone ......``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Maulana Urstruly swore that Mrs. Sehba Musharraf is a ``Mirzaee.`` This is an utter lie and deliberate defamation against the First Lady of Pakistan. Had it been true, I would have defended her right to practice the faith of her choice.

I pay a lot of attention to Maulana Urstruly - for very good reason. While I am not at all frightened of the so-called `liberal`` PPPs such as Zeemax, Manto Bhai, and Chacha Buttees, Maulana Urstruly and his type are of significant concern - they have even managed to entice some stupid Mohajirs to their side. The ``liberal`` elite among the PPPs are a known group of Mohajir-haters that all of us recognize and none of us trusts.

Ally #74 {``what you think or dont think is of no concern to me or most other ppl...``}

Ally,
Likewise - now we are getting somewhere. :) Most of us Mohajirs just want to be free from oppression. You go your way, we`ll go ours. Peace be unto you. :) You pull your Army out of Karachi and we will ask Mushy to come home. :)

Salim

That reply was meant for Hamid Sahib anywayus, I`m not really bothered what you think, Urdu is no longer just your language it is the national language and therefore everyone in the country will know some of it at least to get by... but as English is being used more people will know Urdu but not give it as much importance... this is happening all over Pakistan and India in those areas where Urdu/Hindi isn`t the native language for ppl... i dont associate Urdu with mohajirs for us its simply a link language that links the various ppl together... what you think or dont think is of no concern to me or most other ppl...

Re: # 74

...... have you heard the one about sir arthur, his ahle-zaban knight and the chastity belt ?

Ally Sahib #51 {``in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu i.. i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, ...slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over... ``}

Ally Sahib,
Very few of us Mohajirs are Urdu missionaries. We don`t care if you switch to Serbo-Croat or Swahili as your mother tongue. :)

Judging from the standard of PPP usage of English on Chowk, we can safely assume that Lahore will not be confused for London anytime soon. :)

#65 by anil on March 17, 2007 12:28pm PT
{``Hamidm Sahib:

Please go easy on Salim sahib, and continue to support him. He and Yasser stand out at Chowk. Salim was only correcting the fundoo Urstruly`s attempt to misinform chowkies.``}

Anil Bhai,
Thank you for noticing and explaining my sense of outrage at Maulana Urstruly`s defamation of a public figure. Our steamed Hamidum Sahib will buy Urstruly a drink but will not spank him for lying in public - it`s a PPP thing.

Honestly, as an insignificant Mohajir and a hated traitor, I don`t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with the honorable future PM of Pakistani Punjab. :)

Re: # 71

salim mian,

``Maulana Urstruly`s defamation of a public figure`` ........ i am sorry, now who did he defame ?.......... i must have missed it ........ but you really shouldn`t pay too much attention to urstruly - he is a wretched soul who hates everyone ......