Men in Khaki

Very Interesting.

An interesting documentary by Nicholas Kristof (my favorite)
Watch the video -

The General vs. The Housewife - Sunday 03/25/2007
www.nytimes.com

#175 Arjun

Thanks for posting Dr. Siddiqa-Agha`s interview. She is a smart cookie, no doubt, but she has opinions like anybody else.

Rumors of the Mushy`s exit from the scene of the action are highly premature and highly exaggerated, in my opinion! We (in the US) need him to complete the job.

Sau saal pehle
Mushy pahal-waan tha
Aaaj bhi hai
Aureeee... kal bhi rahega!

#176 Ranjit Bhai,
Much of what you say is quite noble and well-intentioned - although there are several misconceptions. Mohajirs have not played the role of spoiler. Mohajirs are not the ones who are anti-Hindu - as you can deduce from this website alone. Mohajirs are the most frequent visitors to India and their relatives are the most numerous Indians visiting Pakistan - not just now, but from all the way back to the `50s. Mohajirs would be the first to welcome a peaceful, brotherly, and open borders with our neighbor. Thank you for your kind advice.

Romair sahib,

(Justice Bhagwandas is busy in “Geeta Gyan” in the Ashram of Nilu Bhagwan, a spiritual lady from the judge’s native Sindh province, where she once lived as Nilu Sanjnani.`` )

His country is in the midst of a huge constitutional crisis and he is doing Geeta path. Whew!!!

Regards

#176 by ranjit on March 20, 2007 4:17pm PT


Now they are reopening temples, allowing people to visit them from India and even celebrating festivals.


All this is driven for the quest to get a soft image...paki expats in the US had a conference on this last week..on how to create a positive image for pakiland and pakis..all that probing at Dulles and JFK has driven them to these lipstick on a pig projects..

Re:Salim_Chauhan#171

[..Ranjit,
It appears that the ``Trapped, surrounded, screwed and tattooed`` board is disappearing. :) ...]

Salim, my last point on this topic is that Mohajirs need to integrate with Pakistan. This is reality. Given that Pakistan has nukes, you have no chances of secession or reunification. So why bother with needless confrontation? Find a way to assimilate into the mainstream, start speaking Sindhi, Punjabi, do the bhangra, drink lassi, eat sarso da saag or tandoori chicken, do whatever it takes to dissolve your Mohajir/UP label. You left UP and India behind a long time back. So why hang on to it? You have a brown skin and you are a muslim. What more does it take to live in Pakistan?

The other thing is that Punjus on both sides of the border are finally reconciling now. Earlier Pakis would foam at the mouth on hearing the word ``hindu``. Now they are reopening temples, allowing people to visit them from India and even celebrating festivals. This is a welcome change. The mania for Kashmir seems to be receding as well. This reconciliation is very good for India and for Pakistan. The mohajirs should not play spoilers anymore. Last time you split us up in 1947. At least, for God`s sake, allow the people to come together now. If you want a good solution for your issues, that is the right direction to support - a warm peace with India which allows the mohajirs to go back and forth easily between both countries, thus providing security to your needs. You can do your bit by closing down all the madrassahs and jihadi factories in Karachi for a start. Since you control Karachi, how about doing something positive for peace by putting all the jihadis out of business in your hometown?

The Rediff Interview/Dr Ayesha Siddiqa, Pakistan military expert

`Musharraf has no future`
She belongs to one of the most elite families of Pakistan but Dr Ayesha Siddiqa has broken stereotypes. She is an acclaimed expert on Pakistan`s military capabilities.

An author of two books on defence decision-making and the political-economy of military, Dr Siddiqa has 17 years experience in research and writing, consulting and public sector management. She did her doctorate in War Studies from King`s College, London. Her first book Pakistan`s Arms Procurement and Military Buildup, 1979-99 In Search of a Policy is the first detailed analysis of defence decision-making in Pakistan.

Her second book Military Inc, Inside Pakistan`s Military Economy will be published soon.

She comes up with an absolutely original and riveting outlook on Pakistan`s politics from the prism of elite interests and is the first book ever to be written on the subject.

She is also a regular columnist for the Daily Times and in past has contributed to the Friday Times and Dawn. She also contributes to international academic journals and was the correspondent for the prestigious Jane`s Defence Weekly.

She was also a visiting fellow at the Sustainable Development Policy Institute from where she went to become the first Pakistan Scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, DC, in 2004-05. She has been a Ford Fellow, and a research fellow at the Cooperative Monitoring Center, Sandia National Laboratories, USA.

Siddiqa is currently based in Islamabad. She is now involved in a research project on the `political-economy of marginality and extremism in Pakistan`.

Recently, she was on a visit to Delhi to attend the Conference on West Asia where she surprised audiences by her claim that amongst Pakistan`s elites the issue of Palestine is a forgotten cause.

In an exclusive interview with Managing Editor Sheela Bhatt she gave her pragmatic and unambiguous views on the intricate issues between India and Pakistan.



Ayesha, at the conference on West Asia you were talking about lack of interest amongst Pakistanis about the issue of Palestine. Can you explain it more?

At people to people level Palestine is still fundamental to our imagination. Pakistani people feel sorry for Palestine. However, at the level of establishment and amongst the elites there is a decreased interest for what Palestine stands for and for the entire Palestine issue. There are reasons for that. It started with Pakistan`s re-engagement with the United States. These are the days of free market and the new liberal economy and a political system where everybody wants to make money, everybody wants to get rich. Nobody wants to think about what other people are suffering from. Palestine is one of the collateral damages of the spread of new liberal market economy and US interests in South Asia.

But your observation doesn`t match with a recent survey which revealed that most Pakistanis are anti-America. President George W Bush is most unpopular there.

That`s at the people level. The common man does feel deeply about Palestine. The elites do feel unhappy about the way they are treated at American airports but they still want to go there. They still want their children to study there. They still want to be a part of the larger US project.

What will be the impact of the elites of an Islamic state distancing themselves from the one of the most emotive issues of the Arab world?

At the state and official level they make the right noises. Pakistan does endorse issues, statements and resolutions favouring Palestine. However, these are very superficial things. It doesn`t say much about actual policy. Yes, Pakistan is an Islamic State but for the elites religion it is as irrelevant as it would be for other elites in any other part of the world. It doesn`t matter. Elites everywhere are similar. They don`t have any faith or religion. They like the power of money. President Pervez Musharraf has gone around taking his Middle East initiatives to bring peace but that initiative is written in Washington. There is nothing original or nothing Islamic about it.

How do you see Musharraf`s moves towards Israel?

Well, he sees it as a part of his drive to remain relevant to American policy making. He thinks that if Pakistan makes Israel happy it will make Washington happy. There would be a long-lasting relationship. He wants to deliver something to Washington that no Pakistani politician can. That includes starting a relationship with Israel or initiating a Middle East dialogue.

How do you see the latest report in New York Times about deliberations in Washington about dumping Musharraf? Even the names of his replacements have been given.

I think some people have a rich imagination. There is nothing else to say. Yes, I think that the US is slightly unhappy with Musharraf. They want him to deliver on Afghanistan. But the US is not about to dump Musharraf. The reason is simple. They don`t see any credible alternative there. The New York Times report etc is probably based on some leaks, some discussion that took place in the State Department. Such reports are meant to put pressure on Musharraf but will not necessarily result in American policy to push him out. Secondly, the US is in no position to push Musharraf out. Thirdly, the Pakistan military is very hierarchical. It`s not as if somebody in Washington directs the Vice-Chief of the Pakistan Army to take over the government and he will. No, that is not the way change will take place.

How do you see the episode of sacking of Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhary and the reactions in the streets?

I think the government is getting extremely nervous. As you know this is an election year. The government wants to have complete control over the political system. Therefore, some of the comments that Justice Chaudhary made to a visiting team of National Defence College in which he said that Musharraf should not continue to be president in uniform provoked nervousness in government circles. They thought that once they start to manipulate electoral and political processes Justice Chaudhary might become a liability. The missing people`s case was also one of the reasons for discomfort in Islamabad and Washington as well, where the judge asked the government to produce missing people. There were multiple interests which would have benefited from his sacking.

This incident also brings back the issue of democracy in Pakistan.

Civil society in Pakistan is robust and we come out on the streets to protest. But the crisis is about the lack of leadership. Right now, there is no political leader who can step in and say that he is going to provide the umbrella, a leadership to these processions and protests against the Chief Justice`s sacking and turn it into a political movement. In fact one of the strengths of Pakistan military is the lack of proper leadership. There is no political movement that can bring mass mobilisation. Only thing that scares the military is mass mobilisation. And political parties are not willing to do that.

Even that is not a good enough reason. Democracy is the demand of the day.

Democracy is not like the make up that a woman wears and takes off whenever she wants. Democracy should not be there because it is fashionable and because everybody has it so we should have it too. The issue is that you need to have the environment that nourishes the democracy and we don`t have it. We have political leaders who are as authoritarian as the military and they are partners!

How can Musharraf get elected again and still retain his credibility?

Well, he will not get elected with credibility. He won`t be a legitimately elected leader. He is trying to have an agreement with Benazir Bhutto`s Pakistan`s People`s Party. His target is to get two-third majority in Parliament for these parties to get his own extension. He may try to get endorsement from the current Parliament and then he may ask for a vote of confidence from the newly-elected Parliament. It is also likely that he may postpone elections and may impose some form of emergency.

How do you see Pakistan`s role in the region?

Pakistan will play a role which is convenient to the US. Definitely this military regime will play the American way. I think, Pakistan should not antagonise Iran because we share a border and there are 5 per cent Shias in Pakistan. We have to play a neutral role but at present we are not doing so because of our friendship with America. If the US takes a decision to attack Iran it will have to take Pakistan on board. Of course the entire reason will have trouble times, what to speak of Pakistan? Musharraf may not be willing to exercise his own option because he is dependent on the US. He wants to remain relevant to US. Why will he do anything that doesn`t please them?

Within Pakistan do you distinguish what Musharraf does and what Pakistan stands for?

Of course, of course! It all boils down to lack of political leadership and the inability of anyone to mobilise public opinion. Take a spot survey, talk to anybody. People are suspicious of the current political leadership. They say, yeah, Musharraf is bad but do we have an alternative? The politicians are even worse.

There is another way of seeing it also. The Karachi stock exchange is booming, the economic growth rate is good and highways are being built. May be people like it.

Micro-economic indicators are alright. Big highways like Islamabad-Lahore highway which was built by Nawaz Sharief, the Gawadar port were in the pipeline for a long time. Mircro-indicators make the elite happy, it makes the US and similar interests happy. But it does not say about equitable distribution of wealth, it doesn`t speak about poverty which seems to have increased.

How do you see Musharraf`s future?

Musharraf has no future. His only future, possibly, is as a dead man. When you open so many fronts and when you make so many people unhappy there is bound to be a reaction. He has tied himself in a position where there is no exit for him to be left alone safe. He has got himself into policies that has led to killings of people in Wazirastan and Balochistan. Musharraf has too many enemies.

But after 9/11, Musharraf ensured Pakistan`s relevance in geo-political terms. His image is still of a leader who is a nationalist and he has got huge money for the nation.

Nobody is arguing that he is not a nationalist. The problem with you Indians is that you look at nationalism from the Mother India standpoint. Nationalism is about people. He has been trained to be a nationalist. He can`t go against the interests of Pakistan. That is really a non-issue. Any political or military leader would have taken the same decision as Musharraf did when he was cornered by US and was threatened that Pakistan would be bombed to the stone age. He had no option. What would have happened if 9/11 happened in 1981 when Zia ul-Haq type of ideologues were there. I think even Zia would have behaved same way as Musharraf. It`s foolhardy to think that India or any other country would have delivered more to the US. You still have Pakistan sitting right there next to Afghanistan. The US had to come and talk to Pakistan . And Musharraf capitalised on it. Geographical and territorial boundaries make a lot of difference in a conflict.

Given his experience he played a game, he is no fool. One doesn`t like his policies but it doesn`t make him a moron.

What has not worked out for him in Pakistan?

See 9/11 is behind us. After 9/11 there were number of policies in which Pakistan should have taken an independent position. If you begin to behave that everything should be done or ought to be done according to dictates of Washington then sorry, we have a problem.

There is an assessment that Pakistan will plunge into chaos after Musharraf, may be Islamic fundamentalist forces may take over and there could be risk of nuclear facilities falling in the wrong hands.

It`s a figment of someone`s imagination. Granted conservative forces have strengthened in Pakistan but so have they in other parts of the world. Look at India. The BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) came into power and made policies. To imagine that mad mullahs are going to take over is highly imaginative. I don`t see it happening.

They are in power in one of the provinces.

One small province doesn`t mean anything.

The BJP in India ruled a full term without creating fears or nuclear tension. Their record was clean on the matter.

That is again how you perceive things. As I say Indians do not know Pakistan, the US doesn`t know Pakistan. Mullahs are not going to take over. That is the excuse that is given to increase American engagement with the military government, to strengthen its control in and around Pakistan. In any case those mullahs about whom Americans complain about are partners of the Americans. America has always provided money to Jamat-e-Islami. They have always been friends of Jamat. So what is their complaint?

How can you forget (disgraced nuclear scientist) A Q Khan?

They are two separate issues. Extremism and A Q Khan are not the same. Pakistan`s nuclear weapons are as safe and as under control as they are in India. In fact, in the past 10 years there have been leakages in US nuclear facilities. Does it mean that extremists are going to take over? I am sorry, Bush himself is an extremist.

Are you hopeful about the ongoing composite dialogue between India and Pakistan?

After almost 60 years of hostility, I am quite happy with the pace of the peace talks. But certain questions need to be asked. There is no framework on either side. Kashmir, Sir Creek, Siachen are disputes. Do you know where we want to go with each other? There will be more issues than these disputes. We are sitting next to each other. On both sides internal political dynamics exist as well. India will keep changing and Pakistan too. Both States are in transition. You had the Gujarat riots and riots elsewhere. You have issues between the upcoming middle and upper class and lower classes and you have poverty. We have sectarian issues between ethnic classes, we have poverty. Once you have these issues and it has a bearing on external relations how can you sit silently and negotiate peace without a broader framework? We need a broader framework to discuss bilateral views, perhaps, an agreement to not to go to war, perhaps a friendship treaty. Something that binds us together in a firmer way.

Within India a view is that unless the Inter Services Intelligence and the Pakistan military changes nothing will move forward. There are no signs that the ISI or military has changed their position on Kashmir.

I think that is incorrect. One, insurgency in Kashmir has gone down. People of India believe in the ISI because they want to believe in the ISI. Do not forget there are people here who also benefit from conflict. The ISI is a good bogey. I am not saying that ISI is non- existent. The ISI is not an independent rogue organisation that takes decisions on its own. Once there is an understanding between Indian and Pakistani governments, the ISI does not create problems. The ISI is not independent. RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) is a separate cadre, the ISI doesn`t have cadre.

Where is the Kashmir issue leading to?

At the people to people level nobody is interested. The better option would be to give autonomy to people on both sides. The average Pakistani never had a lot of stake in Kashmir. Somebody sitting in Balochistan or South Punjab is not affected by what happens in Kashmir. Jobs, education of children and everyday survival is more important to the average Pakistani than Kashmir. What was important was the perception of Kashmir amongst the elite and establishment and that has undergone for some change.

Is it a correct observation that in Pakistan now the perception is that Kashmir cannot be annexed through war or terrorism. There is a kind of Kashmir fatigue.

Amongst the Pakistani military and establishment this is the view and that`s why they are talking. The problem in India is Indians do not understand Pakistan at all and Pakistanis also, do not understand India. A lot of perceptions are actually misperceptions.

Like any political development in Pakistan is seen as a crisis. Pakistan is viewed as a failed state. Yeah, it`s a country with problems. Same kind of problems India has as well but it is always seen as the country which is about to disintegrate. As long as that is the perception, Indians will not be able to come up with the imagination of how to deal with its next-door neighbour. Initially in Pakistan there was a perception that India will help Pakistan disintegrate, some of it is still there. People are not even factoring the fact that out of three and half wars, two and half wars were started by Pakistan itself. I think we need to build an understanding that two neighbors of different sizes and different capacities can co-exist peacefully.

How do you see India`s position as a regional power?

It is struggling to become a regional power and a global player. However, what India needs to realise is that it has to have a more proactive policy of taking its smaller neighbours along otherwise it will always remained tied down. India is not a benign larger neighbour. In some respects it is an authoritarian hegemony. It`s very inward looking when it comes to its external policies. And, some of that needs to be re-looked.

India is acquiring aggressive confidence along with economic growth but when that comes to the Indian establishment it translates in the ability that overrides anything that smaller neighbours do.

Re: # 175

Wow -- what a broad perspective! -- what a soothsayer scholar like Siddiqa is doing in a Musharraf ruled barren place like Pakistan -- the Indians may need her more to understand their country and their neighbors -- and their stupid arm purchasing and missile rattling spree (for what -- a coming war?) -- the least, she should be made the Director of the Institute of Subcontiental Peace and Disarmament -- housed right in the middle at the Wagah border -- extending half-way on each side!

... it is also significant to note that he`s coming back on 21st i.e. tomorrow when 23rd is a public holiday. If he had really been on leave, it is the norm to conjoin public holidays.

#170 by bulleya,

The Gov`t has found a middle way out. Since the composition of the SJC was challenged, the only way to give it legitimacy is to get Rana Saheb on the helm of SJC as is the constitutional demand. And I can bet Rana Bhagwan Das will do justice. He has an unblemished and a non-political career, and an honest man. Everyone knows that.

Maybe it`s time to ditch Mushy. Let a really powerful ``Sher da Puttar`` Pakistani Punjaibi Paindoo dictator, like Zia Ul Haque, take over. Mushy is too wishy washy and soft on the vandals roaming the streets, shitting bricks, and destroying property - the fact that the miscreants are mostly lawyers makes it worse.

Had Mushy thrown a necktie party for the PPP ``democratically-elected`` ex-PM Nawaz Besharif, like Zia did to ZAB, everyone would get in line. I am disgusted with Mushy.

Ranjit,
It appears that the ``Trapped, surrounded, screwed and tattooed`` board is disappearing. :)

#358 by Salim_Chauhan on March 20, 2007 7:05am PT
#357 ranjit {``As zeemax says, it is the Liaquat Ali Khan types who did not want to live with hindus. ...Now as far as your situation in Pakistan is concerned, that is a bed that you chose to lie in. You must make efforts to assimilate there. I am a Sindhi settled in Delhi, just like you are a Mohajir in Karachi. If I can be 200% assimilated into India, why cant you be assimilated into Pakistan?``}

Ranjit bhai,
First of all, I have read that Liaquat Ali Khan hailed from East Punjab. :) Secondly, the overwhelming majority of Mohajirs were not even born at the time of partition - therefore, you cannot say that they ``chose`` this horrible situation.

There never was a plebiscite for Pakistan and Urdu-speaking Mohajirs never had a voice in partition. The Muslim League used its parliamentary majorities in Sind, Punjab, Bengal, Assam, and Frontier as justification for a separate homeland. As for assimilation into Pakistan, please tell me why the Bengalis seceded and why they did not ``assimilate`` into Pakistan? In fact, even as the majority population, they were forced to forsake Pakistan and go their separate way.

Mohajirs have tried to be more Pakistani than the Pisser-e-Zameen, the ``Sons of the Soil.`` Mohajirs have always been loyal to Pakistan - as evidenced by the poor ``Biharis``` continuing state of being ``stranded`` in Bangladesh. How can a people feel assimilated in Pakistan, when their own ``compatriots`` such as the PPP call them ``napaak and HindustaaNRa?``

Mohajirs have contributed to Pakistan`s progress with far greater positive impact than their numbers would require. Preserving one`s language and culture is not an unpatriotic act - in fact in Karachi, Mohajir Gujaratis, Rajasthanis, Mahrathis, people from Mysore, and even Tamils have all sacrificed their ancestral languages for Urdu which is still the lingua franca of Pakistan. Mohajir males even adopted the ludicrous and effeminate shalwar/qameez - made the national uniform of Pakistan by Bhutto. Mohajirs have had to learn Sindi as part of the provincial curriculum. Even after the strife between Mohajirs and Sindhis, perpetrated by the Bhutto and Zia regimes, Mohajirs have reached out to Sindhis and today, native Sindhis are joining MQM in droves. MQM is even popular in the Saraiki region of southern Punjab much to the chagrin of Nawaz Besharif and his ML-N.

I have not read of any instance where a Mohajir has ever been arrested and convicted of spying for India - the same cannot be said about the Pisser-e-Zameen. Furthermore, Mohajirs built up the relatively small city of Karachi into the huge metropolis it has now become. I think that you are being too general and your unfortunate accusations seem to transcend generational boundaries. Please try to be a bit more objective. Whether Karachi is reunified with India as part of a multinational reunification or whether Karachi and/or Sind are allowed self-determination, one thing is clear - no people can be denied freedom forever.

Bhagwandas discovered:

``Justice Rana Bhagwandas, who is to assume the office of the acting chief justice of the Supreme Court, is meditating in Lucknow, India, it is learnt. Justice Bhagwandas is busy in “Geeta Gyan” in the Ashram of Nilu Bhagwan, a spiritual lady from the judge’s native Sindh province, where she once lived as Nilu Sanjnani.``

www.dawn.com....

#149 Kamath sahib,

Thank you for providing me a link to the BBC page from which I extensively quoted in #141.

Who says that on chowk there is no meeting of minds and that people talk only to themselves! :)

#147 by ferozk

FerozK, thank you for your detailed and thoughtful answer.

[…once again, we in Pakistan, are making the same mistake of hoisting our hopes on to a pedestal from which they will surely fall once more.]

I have said this before – if there are any true idolators in that part of the world, it is the vast majority of your compatriots. :) And unfortunately, they idolize the wrong “gods”, who invariably prove too prone to the weaknesses of humans!

[The question at stake is who has the right to interpret the law in Pakistan; the judicial or executive branch of the government?]

I have always thought that particular question has been settled for a while and the winner have always been those wielding lathi sticks and wearing khaki. I like your optimism and hope that you prove right but the realist in me shakes his head the wrong way and tells me that you are reading more into a quirky phenomenon which was allowed to build up into more than it needed to. As far as the checks and balances is concerned – the tussle for power among the executive body, the legislature, and the judiciary was long decided… in favor of…

In favor of – the army!

In fact, I doubt that one would have seen anything like we see now had the place been run by the likes of the Zia – who was more of a “traditional” dictator. Mushy is a bit of a “soft” dictator, no doubt, and likes to maintain (at least the illusion of) a free press. However, the expectations of the Mushy pulling a Gorby are in all likelihood highly exaggerated! :) (But nobody will be happier for your country than I, if that indeed turns out to be the case.)

The “legal” community retaining its ethics and keeping the debate secular…hmmm! I need not mention to an eminent scholar of history what the track record has been so far. Lekin ummeed per to duniyaa jeeti hai! :)

#165 by Naqshbandi on March 19, 2007 4:34pm PT

when mahathir was in power, he played by the rules...he`s only saying the things that make you islamists feel warm and fuzzy because he`s out of power...his father was indian so the bania part of him knows which side of his bread is buttered(or being that his father was a tamilian, which side of the dosa gets the chutney)....

In addition to reading about cricket, the rest of the world is reading about a new game invented by the Pakistani authorities. The name of the game is still in the making. Hopefully, the audience will come up with their recommendations on the name soon. And we will read another biography, highlighting the team lead`s adventures, ``In the line of a new game``.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/pakistan.justice/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/pakistan.justice.reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/pakistan.justice/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/pakistan.justice.ap/index.html

when will third world tin pot dictators learn that the US is a fickle friend and if she can put you in power she can also remove you from power.

That`s why I admire people like Mugabe and Chavez and Mahathir of Malaysia (and the Iranians) -- they have the balls to tell the US to go fcuk themselves. Our great leaders masha Allah bent over and say, `Sar jii, itna theek eh ya hor thora dinga ho jaavaaN?``

This article is been published on http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au
US looks at plan to oust Musharraf

* Bruce Loudon, South Asia correspondent
* March 14, 2007

THE US has indicated for the first time that it might be willing to back plans by elite echelons of the military in Islamabad to oust Pervez Musharraf from power, as the Pakistani President was beset by major new difficulties over his attempts to sack the country`s chief justice.
Reports yesterday quoting highly placed US diplomatic and intelligence officials - previously rusted on to the view that General Musharraf was an indispensable Western ally in the battle against terrorism - outlined a succession plan to replace him.

US officials told The New York Times the plan would see the Vice-Chief of the Army, Ahsan Saleem Hyat, take over from General Musharraf as head of the military and former banker Mohammedmian Soomro installed as president, with General Hyat wielding most of the power.

The report adds another dimension to the range of challenges bearing down on the embattled military ruler following his weekend sacking of chief justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, whom he appointed just over a year ago.

Thousands of lawyers clashed with baton-wielding riot police yesterday during a nationwide day of action against the sacking of the top judge. About 3000 lawyers wearing smart black suits and chanting ``Down with Musharraf`` dismantled barriers in an attempt to stage a sit-in outside the Lahore High Court building.

More than 40 lawyers and 15 police were injured in the clashes. Police repeatedly baton-charged the demonstrators, some of them senior members of the bar, arresting 25 people.

In Islamabad, police barricaded the Supreme Court where the Supreme Judicial Council was meeting in camera to consider as-yet unspecified charges against the chief justice involving alleged misuse of his authority.

There was chaos and confusion as the council began its hearings last night. Having been held virtually under siege and incommunicado in his residence, the chief justice refused to get into a government car sent to convey him to the Supreme Court.

Instead, he stunned officials by starting to walk, surrounded by supporters, and told reporters he rejected any suggestion he had abused his office. Police soon intervened, however, and he was forced into a car and taken to another building before being transferred to the Supreme Court.

As courts across the country remained paralysed in protest, motives for the sacking emerged when it was disclosed that last month Justice Iftikhar said in a speech that General Musharraf could not continue as army chief beyond the expiry of his term as President later this year.

General Musharraf has a highly controversial plan that would have him elected to another five-year term as President by existing federal and provincial legislatures - before general elections are held.

But he also wants to continue as Army Chief of Staff, something that is bitterly opposed by political leaders as well as the international community. The plan would be challenged in the courts, and the chief justice`s strong words on the issue may have forced the President to take pre-emptive action to remove him.

The bitter wrangling lends weight to those in the US diplomatic and intelligence community who believe it is time to consider the post-Musharraf era.

The US report suggests a growing disenchantment towards General Musharraf in Washington and indicates that the longstanding view that the alternative to his regime would be chaos and a takeover by extremist Islamic mullahs is no longer ascendant.

The US officials say hardline Islamists have usually not done well in elections in Pakistan and that if General Musharraf were removed, a doomsday scenario would not necessarily follow.

The report could be an attempt by Washington to pressure General Musharraf to take stronger action against militants in Pakistan`s border areas near Afghanistan, where the Taliban and al-Qa`ida are operating. But it might also indicate the President`s allies in Washington are about to pull the rug from under him.

99.99% of paki politicians are corrupt and should be lined up and shot. so should musharraf and most of the military brass too. when was the last time they actually did something useful?

#161 Zeemax {`` ``Genghis Khanum`` as per your nemesis neembu ...
And BTW ... I`m screwing her ... not the other way around ... LoL .. ``}

Zeemax,
Pursuing small slant eyed felines is one way to overcome your limiting shortcoming. :)

#160 by Salim_Chauhan

``Genghis Khan.``

err .. ``Genghis Khanum`` as per your nemesis neembu ...

And BTW ... I`m screwing her ... not the other way around ... LoL ..

#159, Zeemax,
No need to get jealous of Altaf Payee - just because your Lucknowi nawaban left your sorry ass and you had to get screwed by ``Genghis Khan.`` LOL :)

#158 ... contd ..

This SOB married a nice Sindhi girl from an illustrious family of Sindh just to chamkaofy his siasat and paraded her on TV ... then this SOB got a daughter from raping her and paraded the baby on TV too as if in this manner he becomes a Sindhi ... This SOB.

Listen ... he`ll always remain a bhayya and a mutarwa ... he`ll never be a Sindhi by raping a Sindhi woman ... this dirty greasy shitty despicable SOB ...

#157 by Salim_Chauhan

Is Pir Saheb Altaf Bhai Bhindiwalla your boss or not .... ?

Zeemax #155,

Zeemax,
Keep on displaying your PPP traits. You are guaranteeing a sad end for yourself on this site. Don`t forget there are Injuns lurking in the bushes and the next time you go to take a crap, you might just return with a premature load of sandalwood, strategically placed for future combustion.

#155 Listen stupid Zeemax,
I call it as I see it. Remember that you are the jingoistic Paki Punju Paindoo ``my shit doesn`t stink`` jerk. Your perception of interactors is determined by your own bias and prejudice. That`s why you are so BORING.

#152 by Salim_Chauhan

Even the rats are abandoning the sinking ship

Altaf threatens to review ties with government

Meaning:

MQM=RATS

GOV`T=SINKING SHIP ..

Guess you goofed up ... LoL

Dear Pakis,

Nobody in his/her right mind would advocate dictatorship - especially a military one. Everyone wants democracy, but there is no quick fix, no cheap freedom, and no instant cure for insanity. Pakistan has NEVER experienced a sustained even limited democracy. Jinnah was basically a universally-accepted autocrat, a one-man show, who needed no ratification of his whimsical ideas. Muslims have an uncanny habit of elevating even the most mediocre of their leaders to positions approaching divinity.

Democracy means much more than mob rule. Majority rule does not mean that a vote can decide the life or death of any hated minorities, confiscation of their wealth, or designation of their community as non-Muslim, naPaak, or discrimination against them in employment, business, or education. There must be concrete, sacred, and inalienable rights assured to ALL citizens - such as in the Bill of Rights. There must be protection for smaller states/provinces, otherwise Delaware would have never joined the United States.

Pakistan has had only two orderly, legal, and fair transitions of power. The first was in the `50s when the Bengali-dominated Awami League and Suharwardy beat the incumbent Muslim League. The second was when an Urdu-speaking Mohajir COS, Mirza Aslam Beg, transferred power to a victorious Benazir Bhutto in 1989. Forget the fact that Gen Aslam Beg was a chutiya when it came to knowledge of military matters - he was the fool who considered helping the Bosnians achieve military success as a futile effort and bound for failure. But he did supervise fair elections and did not grab power for himself - unlike Ayub, Yahya, Zia, and Mushy.

The question to ask is what replaces Mushy in the future? Another two rounds of twiddle dee and twiddle dum will not do. The military must be there ONLY for the defense of the country against FOREIGN enemas - something it has NEVER succeeded in doing effectively. The military should not become a tool of a single province or ethnicity to lord over the rest of the country. The provinces should enjoy full local power - including taxation, police, education, and local legislation. The days of the One Unit and Basic Democracy crap are over. Will Pakis rise to the challenge or are we to expect more of the same? Throwing bricks, burning tires, and smashing windows are not the solution.

#147 by ferozk on March 19, 2007 0:44am PT


Pakistan has a golden and a very rare opportunity


But Pakistanis won`t take it because they`re afraid that going against the military means showing weakness to India..Like it or not, India is a huge factor in all of Pakistan`s decisions..right from the one that brought Mushy to power..



we are witnessing a new realignment of the judiciary with the legislative against the executive.


They were aligned when their interests were aligned...Now that most Pakistanis aren`t happy about the whole disappearance in the GWoT thing and their military`s acquiescence to the US in the GWoT, the pent up anger is bubbling out..this isn`t about a CJ..if the current CJ who is being hailed as a hero had gone against mushy post oct 99, there wouldn`t have been lawyers in the streets protesting his dismissal...

Even the rats are abandoning the sinking ship

Altaf threatens to review ties with government

By Azfar-ul-Ashfaque

KARACHI, March 18: Muttahida Qaumi Movement leader Altaf Hussain warned on Sunday that his party will review its relationship with the government if the use of ‘state violence’ was not stopped immediately.

“We did not support the government’s action of imposing restriction on the press or its acts of violence against peaceful lawyers. MQM is closely monitoring the current situation and demands that the president and the prime minister should stop the use of state power, otherwise the MQM will be absolutely free to exercise all its options in the near future,” Mr Hussain said. He did not elaborate.

He was addressing his party’s activists and supporters gathered here to celebrate the 23rd Foundation Day of the MQM.

He said that the MQM had always raised its voice against injustice and it would continue to do so without any fear of ‘consequences’.

He spoke at length about the current internal political situation, the threats being faced by the country, situation in tribal areas and in Balochistan and the current judicial crisis.

With regard to the presidential reference against Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, he clarified that neither the MQM had been taken into confidence nor was it consulted on the matter.

Criticising the government for not consulting the MQM before or after filing of the reference, he said that it was high time to decide whether it wanted to continue working with the MQM, which always supported the government even in difficult times, or it wanted pseudo-friends.

However, he maintained that it was a constitutional and legal matter and all Pakistanis should leave the matter to the Supreme Judicial Council to reach a decision in accordance with the Constitution and law. “This matter should not be used for scoring political points,” he added.

He appealed opposition leaders to lodge their protest in a peaceful manner keeping in view the critical situation the country was facing.

He said MQM believed in freedom of expression and it was concerned over various government restrictions on the media. He condemned the police action on the Islamabad office of Geo News and recent incidents of police violence against protesting lawyers. The MQM leader observed that the government had mishandled the situation in Balochistan and tribal areas and the recent protests of lawyers.

He said that President Gen Pervez Musharraf himself had admitted that some conspiracy was being hatched against him. He urged the president to unmask the conspirators and to take action against them in accordance with the Constitution and the law.

He said that Pakistan’s relations with its neighbouring countries, Iran, Afghanistan and India, were not normal.

He said that the MQM always urged the government to resolve the issue of Balochistan and tribal areas through dialogue, but unfortunately the rulers did not pay heed. He said that the situation in Balochistan was not satisfactory.

He called upon the president, the prime minister and the policy-makers to give complete provincial autonomy and stop interference by the federation into the affairs of the provinces for the sake of solidarity and integrity of Pakistan.

“People of former East Pakistan wanted their rights and they gave them the country. I request the authorities not to adopt similar practices, lest instead of giving provincial autonomy you give them countries,” he said.

He prayed to the Almighty to grant wisdom to the rulers to take decision in national interests.

He asked the government to immediately release all lawyers, political leaders and workers.

Mr Hussain congratulated MQM workers and supporters on the 23rd Foundation Day.

A large number of MQM workers and supporters attended the gathering. The address of Mr Hussain was relayed simultaneously in 20 cities of Pakistan, where the party’s foundation day was celebrated.

Courtesy, Dawn - March 19, 2007 Monday Safar 29, 1428

Pew,

Thank you for the benefit of the doubt. I`d suggest you read the stuff Raman has written and decide for yourself if he is merely critical of Pakistani government policies or an out and out Pakistani (certainly of the Pakistani government and Army) hater. He is a prolific writer and there is no shortage of stuff he has written. Here is one particular example:

``There was a symbiotic relationship between Tricky Mush and Osama bin Laden. He created bin Laden and made him into the dreaded terrorist that he is today or was, if he is dead. He used him against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan and, in 1988, when a Shia revolt for an independent Karakoram State rocked Gilgit in the Northern Areas, he let loose bin Laden and his murderous tribal hordes on the Shias. More Shias were massacred in Gilgit in 1988 than in the Hazara area of Afghanistan under the Taliban post-1996.

The dubious ‘exploits’ of bin Laden helped Tricky Mush, till then considered a mediocre commando, upwards in his career.``

You can read the rest for yourself at http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/idr/vol_17(2)/B_raman.htm

I think this goes beyond ``criticism`` and is clearly ``hatred.``

Regards.

#148 by zensufi

PIA (having worked there for 5 years) was the only airline in the world which never had to struggle its seats. All its flights were always overbooked depite the grumblings over delays etc. This was because of the inflight service, and a loyal passenger base of overseas Pakistanis. This was also despite PIA being the most expensive on many international routes than its competitors. There was great employee loyalty as well because of generous medical and travel benefits plus job security offered to employees despit a high employee/aircraft ratio and low take-home compensation.

The downfall began in 1980s after the PIA hijack to Kabul by Al-Zulfiqar when PIA was absorbed into the Ministry of Defence instead of being an autonomous corporation, and every retired colonel or wing commander replaced professional managers in departments like stores & purchases, marketing & sales, flight services, flight kitchen, communications, transport etc etc., and the rot began. It was pure loot mar after that. And here we are. PIA is barely being kept afloat as it is the national career. Actually it must be grounded and completely overhauled.

BJ Kumar: Read- Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry here is the info about administering Oath to general Mush! You can actually see the pictures too!

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6462745.stm.

The article is ``Blood and batons spur Pakistan row By Masud Alam
BBC Urdu service, Islamabad Saturday 17th March 2007

Kamath

Hallo - interesting, however... I was hoping to read more about PIA and how the problems can be resolved. Perhaps, nothing to report on that front, given PIA is pretty much ignored now, huh?

-zensufi-

#140, Kamath {``Salim_Chauhan: I say to you too. Take it easy and enjoy the show. You sit here in your comfortable sofa, polish of your whiskey and write between sips! Don`t you?
Enjoy the Tamasha. There is not one little thing you can do to help poor Pakistani brethren!
Wa Salaam! ``}

Kamath Sahib,
Thank you for understanding my feelings. At times like these I wish I was drinking again, but I haven`t touched the soothing nectar of life for almost two years - thanks to my wonderful wife. :) :(

I would enjoy the tamasha, were it not for a real fear of looming bloodshed for my brethren in Karachi.

Walaikum Salaam.

Justice Chaudhary , again, lip-syncing Troggs – ‘Love is All Around’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqYDbj_b7ns

In the meantime the real Justice Chaudhary aka Jumping Jack Jeetendra taking time to lip-sync reggae – ‘Jump N Move’ amidst his busy schedule of fighting the bad guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpU5JAQFLic

Folks,
Did you see Chowk`s own YLH / mantolives at the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6447215.stm

Kamath sahib, the amazing thing is that ``heroes`` can jump up and grab you - from the unlikeliest of places, when you least expect it, someday, somewhere! (Source: Candid Camera)

Even from among lawyers!

Who would have thought?!!

For crying out loud....

#139 by kamath

[I read recently that the ousted Chief Justice WAS the very person who sworn General Mush to Presidency after the coup. What happened between then and now?]

This BBC news item excerpt provides a clue (the underlining is mine)…

….Which brings us back to how all the trouble started, the presidential move of 9 March, suspending the chief justice of the Supreme Court on charges of misconduct, the details of which are still unspecified.

The fraternity of lawyers has been protesting in all the big cities of Pakistan on a daily basis ever since against what they see as an attempt to humiliate and tame the judiciary.

Making of a hero

Until then, Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry had enjoyed a mutually satisfying relationship with the media.

Now the situation has all the marks of turning into a big political challenge for Gen Musharraf and his government

He liked taking centre stage and often delivered his verbal judgments and comments in the form of sound bites that fitted nicely in headlines.

The media liked his penchant for judicial activism on public interest and human rights issues.

Journalists were also hugely entertained by Mr Chaudhry`s habit of passing harsh comments on senior government functionaries and frequently embarrassing them publicly in his court room.

But Justice Chaudhry was no public hero. Not, that is, until the government took action against him.

In the past he was seen very much as a supporter of Gen Musharraf.

Justice Chaudhry was among the half of the Supreme Court judges who validated Gen Musharraf`s 1999 military coup against an elected government. The other judges resigned in protest.

Later, when the general held a referendum to install himself as the president of Pakistan, and the act was challenged in the Supreme Court, Justice Chaudhry was on the bench that decided in favour of the general.

These actions brought him closer to the military rather than the ordinary Pakistani, making him an unlikely champion of people`s aspirations.

Recently as chief justice, he did grab a few headlines with some decisions that have been uncomfortable for the government. But he was never seen as a threat to the legitimacy of Gen Musharraf`s rule.

Black-coats

A simple constitutional matter of referring the country`s most senior judge to be investigated by the appropriate judicial body is getting bigger, nastier, and potentially more dangerous for the present government by the day. And it would appear that it is a problem of the government`s own making.

Essentially, a few hundred lawyers in half a dozen cities was all the opposition amounted to in the beginning.

If they had been allowed to shout slogans and wave their fists in front of courts, that would probably have been the end of the matter.

But local administrations chose to pit their police forces against the protesting lawyers. Bloody scenes in Lahore last Monday unified the lawyers like never before and hardened their stance.

They have taken to the streets again on Saturday. And the police have got their batons out. Result? More blood being spilt, more publicity.

The ``black-coats`` as the lawyers are being affectionately called these days, have never shown this kind of unity, nor this temerity, before.

Even lawyers politically affiliated with the ruling party have refused to toe the party line.

The president`s office has had to bear the embarrassment as one prominent lawyer after another refused to represent its case against Mr Chaudhry.

LOL


denial


Abuse and

Repetitons...

So whats new...

Bob Woolmer

Innallah-e-wa-Inna elehe Rajyoon ...

May his kind soul rest in eternal peace.

#133, Zeemax {``Yes I`m worried too about Salim...``}

Jeemax,
Don`t worry about me? I am having a great time. The cricket matches and the misbehaving PPP liars in Lahore and Islamabad have given me more entertainment than ever before. When you PPPs can`t debate you start indulging in personal insults. Just worry about the rioting PPP liars and the future of Pakiland. Perhaps you can convince Sun Tani to get married for the sake of pan-Panjuism. :)

When you PPPs have to pay market rates for the gas of Baluchis you might come to your senses. Maybe the Punju Navy and the Afghan Navy can rent pier space at Gwadar from the Baluchis as you inhale their gas. LOL :)

overall, its silly for pakis to attack musharaff, as it is not good for soveriegnity of pakistan. if musharaff becomes ``weaker``, he will be more succeptible to pressure from the south-asia desk and langley..he is more likely to sell out the easy stuff. this is offcourse assuming soverignty is a virtue by iteself.

#132 by scoutmaster,

Yes I`m worried too about Salim ... where`s dr. sohail? I think he needs a shot of pathedrine, and if that doesn`t work, then some electric jolts.

Any doctors on Chowk? Please do something for Salim Bhai before he bursts a vein or something. He is the only warrior left in Pakistan. Salim Bhai Zindabad.;)

by atif2 on March 18, 2007 5:08am PT on UP
#11 - excuse me injun! pakistan was defeated by just 3 wickets. India got clobbered by 5 (FIVE!) wickets
take that! ``}

So, the PPPs are down to this?
Claiming victory over the Injuns for having only three wickets inserted up their ass instead of the 5 the Injuns inhaled rectally. :)

Zeena #5 on UP {``PPP and Nawaz league are together now against Mushy...Any idea why? ``

Zeena,
Very good question. These former ``democratically-elected`` ex-PMs now see a good chance to continue with their taking turns while looting Pakistan with both hands and both feet. They loot with their hands and then run with their feet to London, Switzerland, Abba Dabba Doobuy, and Soodi Rabia.

When Nawaz Besharif left in 1999, Pakistan`s economy was a mess. Foreign exchange was dried up. Capital investment was disappearing. Corruption was rampant. The Paki rupee was in free fall. Mushy came in - kicked out the thugs, reduced corruption, stabilized the Paki Rupee, encouraged investment and capital expenditure. and revived the economy.

Now these thieves see another opportunity to get rich at the expense of the poor hard-working Pakis - Punjabi and Sindhi subsitence farmers, exploited Baluchis, opium-growing Pathans, and enterprising Mohajirs.

They have their ``liberal`` PPP goondas and hooligans, like PPP lawyers, coming out in the streets to conduct mayhem, violence, and arson. Soon, the bearded brigade will join them to force Mushy into retirement and Pakistan into a civil war. May Allah strike these traitors dead in their aim to destroy what`s left of Pakistan.

Re: # 130
Salim_Chauhan: I say to you too. Take it easy and enjoy the show. You sit here in your comfortable sofa, polish of your whiskey and write between sips! Don`t you?.

Enjoy the Tamasha. There is not one little thing you can do to help poor Pakistani brethren!
Wa Salaam!

Kamath

HAHA...when he was forced to abandon the bodies of his soldiers on the mountains of kargil, it was a plot against him...when he overthrew an elected PM, it was a plot against him...


Pakistan dictator lashes at `plotters`

* Bruce Loudon, South Asia correspondent
* March 19, 2007

EMBATTLED and besieged in a way unprecedented in his seven-year rule, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf lashed out last night at ``conspiracies`` against him over his attempts to sack the country`s top judge.
``If the people are with me, this conspiracy will not succeed,`` he declared.

But even as he spoke, new violence was erupting in Lahore, capital of the Punjab, with heavily armed riot police and protesting lawyers clashing for the seventh consecutive day.

And a leading Washington think tank said the ``political fate`` of the President, who came to power in a coup, could be decided at an imminent meeting of the army`s top commanders.

The extent of the pressure on General Musharraf emerged with the revelation that among those protesting on the streets - shoulder-to-shoulder with activists from the liberal democratic parties - have been retired former senior military officers, including the legendary general Hamid Gul, who served for years as chief of the ISI spy agency, working closely with the Taliban.

General Gul faced down riot police when they tried to arrest him at a rally outside the Supreme Court in Islamabad protesting against attempts to dismiss Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry.

One jurist who was arrested and bundled into the back of a paddy wagon in Lahore was the widely respected former president and justice of the Supreme Court, Rafiq Tarar, who would normally stand aloof from street demonstrations.

As one commentator in Islamabad put it last night: ``There`s been nothing like this in the seven years since Musharraf grabbed power. Before he tried to sack the Chief Justice in the way he did, it would have been inconceivable that you would get such a cross-section of people demonstrating in this way.

``It`s an indication of just how much trouble he is in.``

Washington-based think tank Stratfor said yesterday there were rumours that some military commanders had written to General Musharraf expressing concern at the way the Chief Justice`s suspension had been handled, and at the subsequent attack by riot police on the Islamabad offices of the Geo television station.

``Moreover, the political fate of the embattled President could be decided in a meeting of the corps commanders,`` it said.

The 10 corps commanders are the key figures in the country`s power structure. Grouped with them are other top generals, including the head of the ISI.

Traditionally, when the army has been in power in Pakistan - most of the 60 years since independence - it is the corps commanders who call the shots.

But General Musharraf, a former commando, is tough, and all the signs were that he would not go down without a fight.

Addressing a public rally at Pak Pattan, in the Punjab, General Musharraf said he had taken action over the Chief Justice because he was required to do so after the Government, headed by Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, made the recommendation to him. ``I have no personal grudge with the Chief Justice,`` he said. ``I have good family relations with him. Stop hatching conspiracy against me.``

He claimed the attack by police on the Geo offices was ``another conspiracy``.

The brutal raid, in which journalists were beaten and equipment smashed, has been followed by an outpouring of apologies from General Musharraf down, most likely because Geo - headed by leading Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir, one of the few people ever to interview Osama bin Laden - has such a high profile in Pakistani society.

Officials have suspended 14 Punjabi riot squad police. But yesterday the same riot police stormed the historic High Court in Lahore, firing tear gas canisters and thrashing protesting lawyers with bamboo sticks known as lathis.

Lawyers were beaten, offices were trashed and computers and other equipment damaged. Again, the targets of the police brutality were not political activists, but respected professionals, including some of the best legal minds in the country.

Courts remain paralysed, with lawyers promising another mass demonstration when the Supreme Judicial Council meets again on Wednesday to resume hearing the misconduct charges.

Meanwhile, a Hindu will be sworn in as acting chief justice of the Islamic nation when he returns from holiday in India. Rana Bhagwandas is the most senior judge on the Pakistan Supreme Court bench.

Sun Tani and Jeemax,
I have been following your wet dreams about a united Poonzab and honestly, I find myself in total agreement with you. The forced departure of the noble Sikhs from West Punjab created a vacuum that has resulted in this unfortunate half century of hooliganism, PPP misbehavior, corruption, and deadly violence. The brave Sikhs had a history of administration and culture and provided a rule of law and order under the glorious Sikha Shahi based in Lahore.

Having said that, I noticed several problems and being land-locked would be the least of your miseries. I have been following the interesting results of the world cup cricket matches in Maghribi (Pachim) Hindustan. :) Here are some observations:

Physique was not a factor in the outcome of the two significant matches - The team with the better physique won in the Ireland/Pakistan match, but the team with the better physique was defeated in the Bangladesh/India contest.

Height was not a factor - the taller Irish beat the shorter Pakis, but the shorter Bengalis beat the taller Injuns.

Skin color was also not a factor - the white-skinned Irish beat the dark Pakis, but the dark-skinned Bengalis whipped the lighter-skinned Injuns.

Islam was definitely not a factor - the Catholic Irish beat the crap out of the Muslim Pakis (including a recycled apostate), but the entirely Muslim Bengalis humiliated the mostly Hindu Injuns (there was only one Muslim on the losing Injun side).

The number of Punjoo players on each team was a definite factor - The victorious Irish included no Punjus, the losing Pakis were mostly PPP (Paki Punju Paindoos). The successful Bengalis included no Punjus, but the defeated Injuns had a few Punjus. The side with the most Punjus performed the poorest of all four.

These are the facts - now do you really want a united Punjab and field a team consisting of ALL Punjus? :)

The amazing truth from all the spectacle of brick throwing, uncontrolled violence. vandalism, and PPP hooliganism is that the Pakistani Punjabi police has not killed anyone in Islamabad or Lahore. If the same type of riots had taken place in Dacca, Karachi, Quetta, Gilgit, Skardu, or Wana, there would be hundreds (if not thousands) dead by now. Let`s applaud the restraint demonstrated by the Pakistani Punjabi police against their own brethren. Ma`shallah. :)

#119, subhashjoshi {``That`s good news, now the problem of stranded Pakistanis` repatriation is resolved.
This is what they call serendipity! ``}

Subhash Bhai,
Call it serendipity or a deputy of stupidity. All`s well that ends well. I am always looking for silver linings even under the cloud of Chacha Buttees` gray hair. :)

``Far from leading Pakistan toward democracy, Gen. Musharraf is systematically dismantling liberal and secular institutions in a country already threatened by Islamic extremism.

One of those is the Supreme Court, which has a strong record of independence and is looked to by many Pakistanis as a guarantor of the rule of law.

Gen. Musharraf`s attempt to neuter the court is matched by his implacable refusal to come to terms with Pakistan`s secular democratic political parties and former civilian prime ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif.

These are his natural allies in a battle against the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Yet to protect his own grip on power, Gen. Musharraf prefers to make deals with the extremists while repressing the secularists.

...some in the Bush administration argue that it`s worth tolerating and subsidizing Gen. Musharraf`s autocracy because it is an ally against terrorism.

But there, too, the general does not deliver. He has handed control of Waziristan, on the border with Afghanistan, to the Taliban, which is allowing al-Qaeda to operate training camps while waging war against U.S. and NATO forces across the border. Both houses of Congress have passed legislation linking further aid to Pakistan to steps against the Taliban.``

I did not write that against the man of `enlightened moderation` -- that is an excerpt from today`s editorial in Washington Post.

Re: # 125
Nasah:
You say,``..One of those is the Supreme Court, which has a strong record of independence and is looked to by many Pakistanis as a guarantor of the rule of law....``

Now really! I read recently that the ousted Chief Justice WAS the very person
who sworn General Mush to Presidency after the coup. What happened between then
and now?

Anyway, I am really enjoying this whole Tamasha!!



Again you say,``...Gen. Musharraf`s attempt to neuter the court is matched by his implacable refusal to come to terms with Pakistan`s secular democratic political parties and former civilian prime ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif....``

Let me ask you the question now! Whom would you vote for today?
1) Nawaz Shariff, or 2) Mohattarama Bhutto or 3) the Big General ?

I say take it easy. Wait for the drama to unfold! As far as I am concerned, the sky is not falling. Enjoy the show!

Shalom,

Kamath

#119, Ranjit {``Salim bhai, this is the last nail in the coffin for your dream of reuniting India and Pakistan. The only positive outcome of such a reunification was supposedly a ``world-beating`` cricket team. What a joke!! Put zero and zero and you still get a zero. ``}

Ranit Bhai,
Au contraire mon frere. :) Bangladesh is part of my dream for reuniting Bharat Mata. The recent world cup matches reveal a competent team of desi kirkit players. Now, we will wait and see the inherent brilliance of the Nepali, Afghan, Bhutan, and Maldives kirkit pahalwans. :) Jai Akhund Bharat.

Pew,

What is ``evidence?`` Which bit of it would you find convincing? I suggest you read his stuff, Rediff and the South Asian Analysis Group is full of his writing, and then decide for yourself if his take on Pakistan is worth paying attention to.

Regards.

Re: # 123 Fuzair

``Which bit of it would you find convincing?``

Something that backs up your claims of `hater`. I am assuming, of course, that you can distiguish between criticism and hate. There are several luminaries on Chowk who cannot.

``Govt won’t allow Opp to hurt dignity of judiciary: PM

ISLAMABAD: The government will not allow the opposition to undermine the dignity of the judiciary, said Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on Saturday``


Only the Govt. is `allowed` to -- ``hurt the dignity of judiciary`` -- not the Opposition -- the Mouse that roared...:)

A true Pakistani leader

ISLAMABAD - March 17: Islamabad Bar Association President Haroonur Rashid lying on his hospital bed under anaesthesia at the ICU ward of Pims after suffering head injuries.— Photo by G.A. Zaidi

Re:Salim_Chauhan#107

[..Biharis Refuse Repatriation to Pakistan.....losing to the Irish cricket team. From now on we will cheer for our Bangladeshi team....]

Salim bhai, this is the last nail in the coffin for your dream of reuniting India and Pakistan. The only positive outcome of such a reunification was supposedly a ``world-beating`` cricket team. What a joke!! Put zero and zero and you still get a zero.

Re:ahmedmadani#108

Madaniji, actually I believe Musharraf is good for Pakistan and he is definitely good for India as well. He has tried to change the culture there to make it more liberal and open for e.g. opening the Katasraj temple for hindus. Also his retraction of Pakistan`s position on UN resolutions in Kashmir has certainly helped India in Kashmir.

I just hope that he doesnt make too big a mess of the current situation and loses power due to a military coup. He is doing all this for his ``reelection``. I wonder why he doesnt declare himself President/Army Chief for life and be done with it instead of having so-called elections.

subhashjoshi,

Please learn to delete the extra space at the end of your posts out of respect for chowk space which is is wasted in this manner, as most chowkies ensure to do except for hindoos who don`t care.

Re: # 116

That space is for the picture of Allah left blank out of respect for your religious sentiments.

#101 by nasah,

It is clear that musharraf himself nor his cabinet nor the PM knew of that attack. For the first time I do not believe they`re lying. It is obvious from their faces. It is indeed a move by other very powerful men after having seen the shift in public opinion against musharraf. He`ll be out on his butt soon.

It is the most plausible scenario that the Geo attack was orchestrated by the Chaudhry`s of Gujrat (remember it was the Punjab Police, not federal, which did it). Shujaat conveneintly left for USA and hasn`t uttered a word, neither has Parvez Elahi. They have seen the paradigm shift and have ditched musharraf. You might also recall that at the time of the alleged NS attack on Supreme court, Shujaat was the Federal Interior Minister and Pervaiz Elahi the Speaker of Punjab Assembly, and busloads from Gujrat had arrived to witness the SC proceedings against NS and made all the ruckus and got enough public opinion plus military support to expel NS. Remember? Same thing is happening now.

I have no doubt the Chaudhry`s are behind the whole thing, but for good reason this time. And you can count on Pervez Elahi as your next PM. Having observed how the Chaudhries operate since a long time (and some of them personally), I know they`ve made a major move on the chessboard. They`re great chessplayers.

Regards.

#110 ahmedmadani {``Any way president has similar job no compliments but just compalaints and whining by third grade politicians, liberals and seculars.
PM complained to him regarding CJs intermingling in many things and improportionate wealth. What he can do , your prime minister MMS will have empathy as he has to dismiss corroupt ministers all time.``}

Madani Sahib,
Your logic is irrefutable and your real-life anecdotes to reinforce the seriousness of the President`s tasks and the gravity of the situation are truly inspiring. Also, I think that you kind remark about My Man Man Mohan was right on. That poor gentleman is so busy firing his cabinet for misconduct that he enjoys going to Islamabad to meet Mushy and cry on his shoulder. Perhaps Mushy should demand quid pro quo and go make the Jamuna a bit wetter. :)

#90 Hamidum2 {``....... if bangladesh beat india and ireland beats pakistan, which is more than likely, it will prove once and for all that mo of mecca might be stronger than hanuman but he is still no match for st patrick and aab-i-zumzum is no substitute for green beer ``}

Hamidum Sahib,
It`s intolerably presumptuous of you to think that only Pakistanis represent Islam or The Holy Prophet (PBUH). Perhaps the Soodis can lend the Pakis some chullu bhar ka aab-e-zamzam for the latter to commit the honorable deed of hara-kiri. :) Mo`s honor was well-defended by the short, dark Bangladeshis.

#105 ahmedmadani {``Hope these people troublemakers will understand problems can be settled in courts not by rabble rousing and hooligans``}

Madani Sahib,
Very well stated and quite logical viewpoint. Thanks. Lawyers acting like hooligan and throwing bricks do not solidify the foundation of Pakistan. We need the cement of logic, tolerance, common sense, civilized behavior, and real education to hold the country together.

Re: # 108
Things are going to be alright. Also good news is Altafbhai has said similar and he is real king maker. PM should be fired in time as he is giving bad advice.
I do not think even president can neglect suggestion from London as disregard can lead to tension and bad economical situation if Karachi flares up for even seven days. His advice for both sides is like shower on fire on both sides.
What you thin k my suggestion to ban video clips as its mostly hate related agenda by some disgrunted group, one can take complaints but its mostly whining.
Kindly read #110 and comment.
Hope you read very good writing by YLH (Manto) is was very best presentation for world readers. Will you agree ?

Biharis Refuse Repatriation to Pakistan

By Abul Qasim Muhammad Shamsul Haque
The Bangladesh Observer
17 March, 2007

Dacca, Bangladesh: Shaikh Muhammad Nur is a leader of the Bihari community - which is a term commonly used to refer to the thousands of Pakistanis stranded in Bangladesh since the surrender of Pakistani forces in 1971.

After watching the World Cup one day cricket match between Pakistan and Ireland, a dejected Mr. Nur announced that his community would refuse any repatriation to Pakistan. ``We knew that the Pakistanis were cowards when they surrendered in humiliation to the victorious Indian Army in 1971. What we did not know is that they were also HijRa losers. It was bad enough that they saved their own skins by surrendering in 1971, but they also abandoned us to the cruel retribution of the Mukhti Bahini. Now they have again demonstrated their inherent cowardice by losing to the Irish cricket team. From now on we will cheer for our Bangladeshi team, which has been victorious with grace and skill. Furthermore, we refuse to go back to our ancient homeland of Bihar, because we want to be associated with victors and not losers.``

Mr. Nur congratulated the Bangladesh national cricket team upon a great victory and prayed for its continued success in the World Cup. He also said ``These Pakistanis always act like the dark-skinned Sudanese ``Arabs`` who somehow justify their persecution and killing of the slightly darker fellow Muslims of Darfur. The Pakistanis discriminated against Bengalis and Biharis who are only slightly darker than themselves. Their continued defeat clearly proves that there is a God.``

There are unconfirmed reports of a significant increase in Bihari applications for asylum status in the Republic of Ireland.

Courtesy, The Bangladesh Observer.

Re: # 107 Salim

That`s good news, now the problem of stranded Pakistanis` repatriation is resolved.

This is what they call serendipity!

#104 Ahmedmadani

Sir, I understand your good intentions.

Forgive me if I am selective about what constitutes ``good deeds`` and real sacrifice.

When I see these folks getting beaten up a