Men in Khaki

#40 GT

[I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know.]

Yes, you are not SAYING it, merely planting a hint through this “do not know” bit – just like any one of the countless (and what I can only call dishonest) interactors and writers on this site – creating false shadows for others to chase on – this site’s reason for being, from all appearances.

The Bengali communists have committed quite a few idiocies in their time – including burning movie halls because a contemporary movie contained such pearls of wisdom as “Chao, Mao, Kao – sir jhukaao!” and yet surprisingly, many of their “leaders” from those times have perhaps sneaked into the USA and similar places – leading a comparatively cushy life! But they should not be credited for the 1971 war.

That baby was fathered and carried throgh its nine-month term by the West Pakistanis all by themselves!

The basic reasons and the chronology of events leading to the 1971 war is well known and well documented.

And if someday the (West) Pakistanis will develop the courage and the testicular fortitude, they may even open up and read the Hamidur Rehman report, too.

Woh subhaa kabhie to aayegi…

But nobody is holding their breath for that great day to arrive! :)

Re: # 50

bj,

.... thanks for reminding me to praise ylh ..... i have always been one of his staunchest supporters and have great hopes for the young man .......... i wish him the best in his crusade for democracy in pakistan and campaign against nudity across the border ........

ylh zindabad !
pakistan zindabad !

#47 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 6:29am PT

Hamidm2 sahib, I wish to thank you for your benevolence toward my fellow Bihari here whose well-being I am equally (or even more) concerned about. This “siding with the military dictator” is surely a temporary aberration due to unavoidable circumstances. When all the choices are terrible, sometimes the good folks have to settle for the less than ideal! I believe you should reason with your soulmate – the Tauheed sahib, to hold back his barbed stingers which seem to have caused most of the injuries to the Salim – and start showing him the understanding that he is entitled to!

I have also noticed that – unlike the other Chowkies, you have been less than fulsome in praising the Manto for this latest feather in his cap – this scalp of the BBC now under his belt, safely tucked away – where you can look at (but not touch) and only feel jealous! Please do not feel jealous.

Needless to say, this is just the right time for all the overseas Pakistani patriots to come together and join hands and strike one for the democratic forces of that country by donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Manto – after whatever is left after donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Honorable Eatallofus Towns! :)

#49

`the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people `

This is now changing... you will see in a generation or two people will be going back to Punjabi language... in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu in the house they only speak it at school or wherever it is required, but we never speak in Urdu to each other... From my frequent visits to Pak, i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, this is also helped with the easing of visas for Punjabi ppl from India...

slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over...

Re: # 58 Hamidm2
You are not alone. This guy (Syed Jamaluddin) may agree with you.

Re: # 52

tahmed mian,

yiou ask: ``is there anything about your identity that you are proud of?``

........ no, not really? ..... actually, come to think of it, i really don`t have an identity and don`t want one either ......... when i was growing up my maternal grandfather used to tease me for being the son of a `teez-mar` (gas-passing) `dal-khor` punjabi so i never wanted to be identified as a punjabi ....... but then he also used to say things like ``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast `` (urdu is like milk, farsi is milk and sugar and pushtu is like a donkey`s fart`) - i think he said these cruel things because he was a dari speaker and grandma was a pukhtu speaker ............ but it turned me off niswar and i don`t want to be identified as a pathan either ........

....... and even though i am properly circumcised and finished the koran many times, i don`t want to be identified as a muslim ...... why? .... the answer is obvious - half of them are suicidal and the other half is homicidal ........ and that is in addition to the problems with personal hygiene and facial hair (which also explains my aversion to being identified as a sikh) ........ i had toyed with the idea of reverting to hindooism and walking tall and proud as a shining indian, until i ran into the heeng eating horrible hindoos ........... so, i remain a man without an identity ...........

#49 hamidm: is there anything about your identity that you are proud of? and please remember that you are at best talking of your own experiences only when saying that all muslims take the lota to work, or that panjabis have an inferiority complex, or when saying that a white man can do no wrong. Where does all this negative energy come from??

Re: # 53

bj,

............i agre with geneive abdo 100% and more .............. regardless of tahmed`s positive spin, the world is in for big trouble with a raging islam - and that includes horrible hindoos like you .......... if it is any consolation, as an apostate and whatnot, i will be in trouble long before you ...........

Tauheed sahib, is Geneive Abdo on the dot?

---

A More Islamic Islam

By Geneive Abdo
Saturday, March 17, 2007; A19
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A small group of self-proclaimed secular Muslims from North America and elsewhere gathered in St. Petersburg recently for what they billed as a new global movement to correct the assumed wrongs of Islam and call for an Islamic Reformation.

Across the state in Fort Lauderdale, Muslim leaders from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the Washington-based advocacy group whose members the ``secular`` Muslims claim are radicals, denounced any notion of a Reformation as another attempt by the West to impose its history and philosophy on the Islamic world.

The self-proclaimed secularists represent only a small minority of Muslims. The views among religious Muslims from CAIR more closely reflect the views of the majority, not only in the United States but worldwide. Yet Western media, governments and neoconservative pundits pay more attention to the secular minority.

The St. Petersburg convention is but one example: It was carried live on Glenn Beck`s conservative CNN show. Some of the organizers and speakers at the convention are well known thanks to the media spotlight: Irshad Manji, author of ``The Trouble With Islam,`` and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the former Dutch parliamentarian and author of ``Infidel,`` were but a few there claiming to have suffered personally at the hands of ``radical`` Islam. One participant, Wafa Sultan, declared on Glenn Beck`s show that she doesn`t ``see any difference between radical Islam and regular Islam.``

The secular Muslim agenda is promoted because these ideas reflect a Western vision for the future of Islam. Since the Sept. 11 attacks, everyone from high-ranking officials in the Bush administration to the author Salman Rushdie has prescribed a preferred remedy for Islam: Reform the faith so it is imbued with Western values -- the privatization of religion, the flourishing of Western-style democracy -- and rulers who are secular, not religious, Muslims. The problem with this prescription is that it is divorced from reality. It is built upon the principle that if Muslims are fed a steady diet of Western influence, they, too, will embrace modernity, secularism and everything else the West has to offer.

Consider the facts: Islamic revivalism has spread across the globe in the past 30 years from the Middle East to parts of Africa. In Egypt, it is hard to find a woman on the street who does not wear a headscarf. Islamic political groups and movements are on the rise -- from Hezbollah in Lebanon, to Hamas in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Even in the United States, more and more American Muslims, particularly the young, are embracing Islam and religious symbolism in ways their more secular, immigrant parents did not.

I traveled to Florida to serve as the keynote speaker at an annual convention hosted by CAIR. On my way to the event, I spoke with Imam Siraj Wahaj, a charismatic intellectual from the Masjid Al-Taqwa in Brooklyn who has thousands of followers here and abroad. His words summarized the aspirations of mainstream Muslims in the United States and around the globe: ``What we need to do is borrow those attributes from the West that we admire and reject those that we don`t. That is the wave of the future.``

Already, signs support Imam Wahaj`s words. Muslims living in the West and those in the Islamic world are searching for this middle ground -- one that fuses aspects of globalization with the Islamic tradition. For example, Muslim women have far greater access to higher education today than ever before. In Iran, there are more women than men in universities, a first in the country`s history. But as increasing numbers of Muslim women become more educated, majorities are becoming more religious while also taking part in what are called Islamic feminist movements, which stretch from Egypt to Turkey and Morocco.

These women, who often wear headscarves to express their religiosity, have found this gray area between modernity and traditionalism. They are fighting for more rights to participate in politics and greater equality in ``personal status`` laws -- the right to gain custody of children or to initiate divorce -- but also view Islam as their moral compass.

Similarly, the political future of the Arab world is likely to consist of Islamic parties that are far less tolerant of what has historically been the U.S. foreign policy agenda in the region and that domestically are far more committed to implementing sharia law in varying degrees.

In Europe and the United States, where Muslims have maximum exposure to Western culture, they are increasingly embracing Islamic values. In Britain, a growing number of Muslims advocate creating a court system based upon Islamic principles.

What all this means is that Western hopes for full integration by Muslims in the West are unlikely to be realized and that the future of the Islamic world will be much more Islamic than Western.

Instead of championing the loud voices of the secular minority who are capturing media attention with their conferences, manifestos and memoirs, the United States would be wise instead to pay more attention to the far less loquacious majority.

Geneive Abdo is the author of ``Mecca and Main Street: Muslim Life in America After 9/11.``

#53 bjkumar: he does make some valid points. but he ignores some significant points and so does not have any actionable conclusion to offer.

Specifically, he ignores the distinction between emphasizing the ``muslim identity`` vs. criminal actions in the name of islam. Thus, if someone puts on a headscarf (as he laments is happening in egypt), that does not mean she is going to blow herself up. I personally consider this ``muslim identity`` to be rooted in the ``tribal mentality`` - the same mentality that one sees on chowk in spades. While regrettable, it is not criminal.

similarly, while his warning against attempts to introduce the sharia (read: writ laws that are not subject to the popular will expressed through the democratic process) is I think valid - but again, there is no broad-based support to it, certainly not in Pakistan where ``hadood laws`` are widely condemned as being gimmicks by military dictators.

These are my two cents. What do you think?

#25 by Salim_Chauhan re #21 Zeemax {``As long as you`re a Pakistani (or claim to be), Punjabis are the majority and they will always have the last say in major decisions, as you`re seeing right now. There`s not even been a stir in your Karachi. ``}

Mr Salim Chauhan, when I said majority, I should have clarified what kind of majority.

Punjab alone is 2/3rd of the population. All the 3 other provinces plus the Northern Areas, FATA and AJK combined are 1/3.

Therefore, Punjab will always set the direction, and it is fair. Punjab is 2/3rd Pakistan, and no one should crib about it. Besides, Punjab has not stolen anyone`s rights but rather subsidised them as I have proven several times through facts & figures.

Re: # 57

zeemax,

sure, here you go .... this is what i said about your ninja girls : `` i wouldn`t support their stand even if they prayed in the nude ! ``

............ it is a matter of principle - it has nothing to do with their attire (or lack thereof)

#56 by hamidm2

Hamidm did you answer my question re the ninjas of Jamia Hafsa and their demands on the other board? If you did it would be very kind of you to c/p here because Ican`t find it.

hamidm: you write i remain a man without an identity .......

let me then help you.....

do you deny your identity as a human being?

if you do....then see all these various traditions (ethnic, like pathan, panjabi etc., or religious like hindu, muslim etc, eastern, western and so forth) as being all part of the rich fabric of human history, particularly of the past 10,000 years. And you can consider yourself heir to ALL of these traditions. And be proud, because without this rich history, you and I and everyone else would be hopping from one tree to another howling ``paki! paki! paki!`` or something like that, searching for berries.

if you do indeed consider yourself to be without even the identity of a human being, then we can talk some more... :-)

Re: # 59

pepe le pew,

.... i hate to disappoint you, but even though i might occassionaly suffer from an identity crisis, i am a firm believer in the union of pakistan and the liberation of kashmir ......... as tahmed points out i`d rather be a paki than a monkey ``hopping from one tree to another howling ``paki! paki! paki!``

....... tahmed, thanks for your counselling :)

#58 Hamidm2

[``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast ``]

Sir, I am immensely relieved to learn that he stopped there and did not try to extrapolate to other languages of the region and of the world!