Men in Khaki

Re: # 3

zeemax,

......even though i agree that the goons in khaki should be slapped silly and sent back to the langar, i also think these `brave girls` from jamia hafsa should be sent to guantanamo as comfort girls for ksm and his band of jihadis - they will get along just great ...........

#2 by Urstruly

Urstruly, a serious question.

What`re the jamia Hafsa girls thinking right now? They must have a strategy because these brave girls were the VERY first to take on this military rule ...

The best thing which happened today. Both Hafiz Ahmeds were lathi charged. I love it. Take all the freakin mullahs and burn them along with those women who sat at the chioldren`s library with KKs. By the way Mushi has apologized for the police action and all of a sudden CJ has started to look guilty as more facts are coming out. If people stop listening to PPP and MMA and PML(nawaz) and look at CJ`s corrupton record, maybe they will understand.
By the way ally stop talking like Hafiz Hussain. Do you really think it is the end of Musharaf. And if it is are you glad that Benazir or nawaz will rule your country.....

#4 by hasanmahmood

Abey kanjar, why`re you worried about who`s going to rule our country? You should worry about your dark and dank morass with 5.7m HIV carriers, 30,000 underage girls abducted and sold into sex slavery in kalakutta alone each year, the land of kherlanji type massacres .. where 75,000 stray rabid dogs roam the streets in ITBilliorainersVille aka BhangiLauroo, and where 60% of population in the largest city lives in slums without toilets and squats on railroads and roadsides amongst traffic.

:~)

Re: # 7

zeemax,

..... how did i know that you would respond with something like that ? .......... you mullahs are so predictable !

#6 by hamidm2,

I`m sure they would. Particularly when your daughters teach them all the tricks of the trade before they leave ... :~)

Re: # 42

nasah mian,

..... to tell you the sordid truth, the poor girl got so much grief over this `bagharee` dal business that she adopted the simple `tarka` even though she continues to use the royal `hum` while addressing her lowly mixed breed relatives as `tu` and `tum`.......... when kids were asked:``where is auntie s?``.... they would promptly reply, `` oh, she is running with the dal - dal ko bhaga rahee hain`` ........ but inspite of the dal business, the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people .......

Re: # 12

``.....for the past twenty years we have been using `behkar` on our dal instead of the good old punjabim `tarka`.....``

hamidm -- the word is `baghaar` -- normally we would say that -- dal agar `bagharee` nu gayee to phir voh `tarkay` gi keyaa...:)

but her on Chowk looks like the CJ batle has moved to a war between `Baghaar` vs `Tarka`......:)

Ghauri sahib -- great piece. one day all tyrants, dictators overreach themselves and get busted.

Re: # 9

salim mian,

...... as a half-punju with a mohajir sister-in-law, a saraiki brother-in-law and another dari speaking brother-in-law, i am deeply offended by your constant diatribe against half my raltives .......... the sad part is that most of them cannot speak punjabi and try to talk as if they were raised by umrao jan ada - most punjabis with a fifth grade education would rather be something else .......... there is no pride in being a paindoo from faisalabad or gujranwala or, for that matter, rawalpindi - which is full of jackasses and rajas even though it is hard to tell one from the other (romair is a prime example) ........... all of us are so awed by our karachite bhabi that we let her call us ``tu`` and ``tum`` even as she refers to herself as a royal ``hum`` and for the past twenty years we have been using `behkar` on our dal instead of the good old punjabim `tarka` ................... so give us a break !

#4 Hasanmahmood Bhai, {``If people stop listening to PPP and MMA and PML(nawaz) and look at CJ`s corrupton record, maybe they will understand.
By the way ally stop talking like Hafiz Hussain. Do you really think it is the end of Musharaf. And if it is are you glad that Benazir or nawaz will rule your country``}

Hasan Bhai,
Very well stated and right on the mark. This is Benazir and Nawaz conspiring to stir up anti-Mohajir hated of Paki Punju Paindoos. Remember, they recently had a meeting and came up with some action items to come back and restore ``democracy.``

Of course, the Paki Punju Paindoos can`t see beyond their filthy brown noses.

Nothing new here. It`s the age-old Paki Punju Paindoos vs the rest of Pakistan fight.

Paki Punjus vs Bengalis 1971
Paki Punjus vs Sindhis 1979
Paki Punjus vs Mohajirs 1990 - 1996
Paki Punjus vs Kashmiris - 1948- 2007
Paki Punjus vs Baluchi 1974, 2006
Paki Punjus vs Pathans 2005, 2006, ...

#8 by hamidm2,

I`m not a mullah. But you yourself said many times what your daughters are capable of ... I mean ... err ... certainly they could teach the Jamia Hafsa ninjas a trick or two for the duties of comfort women that you`ve assigned to them. No?

... err... hamidm ... from their gora boyfriends from the ice cream trips ... err .. you see .. I`m so bashful ...

Re: # 13

zeemax,

...... i wouldn`t support their stand even if they prayed in the nude !

hamidm2,

Okay. Seriously. These brave girls of Jamia Hafsa have not done anything against your gora masters. They`ve only taken a stand against the domestic military dictatorship. Why`re so mad with them?

You don`t like the way they dress? What if the they dressed half-naked like perhaps your daughters and you`re used to it. Would you support their stand then?

Hamidum2 #12 {``as a half-punju with a mohajir sister-in-law, a saraiki brother-in-law and another dari speaking brother-in-law, i am deeply offended by your constant diatribe against half my raltives .......... ``}

Hadmidum Sahib,
You are right. I am getting tired of having to type Paki Punju Paindoo over and over again. In the future I will use the acronym of PPP - regardless of the fact that it refers to another set of mindless, violent, and cruel thugs who have a record of looting our beloved land.
My compliments to your sister-in-law for her compassion and suffering. :)

BTW, have you heard from your long-lost PPP friend, Urstruly? He was caught red-handed spreading malicious lies about the First Lady of Pakistan

#14 by hamidm2

Do you know their stand? What is it according to you?

#15 by Salim_Chauhan

Yaar I know some brigadiers who have slept with your auntie. What the hell`re you talking about ..

Re: # 18

yaar zee, salim and all other stupid old chowkies like me,

I am scared ......

I was in the other board and all of a sudden it got infested with caucasian (6`6`` tall, blue eyed and blond haired) grandchildren of gopinath. No they aren`t from bollywood .... one seems to be from India, another from Pakistan and another - a recent edition from London. Heck are you guys also caucasian? Am I the only guy who looks like Rajnikant and wears yellow shoes with green trousers? If so, then I need to get out of chowk. Heck I do not care about Mushy et. al. (though come to think of it, he too looks like Rajnikant) - I care about my looks and I thought I was in the company of similar looking people. I should have known better - FP is a caucasian club. At least on UP, pokershark looks like me ...... so I retreat.

#16 by zeemax contd ...

... before you answer that, there`re six thousand girls in Jamia Hafsa. How many? Six thousand. And their boy supporters are 3 million. How many? Three million ...

Now please go ahead and answer the question. What is their stand?

#17, Zeemax,
Hot air, lying, and malicious bragging seem to be a PPP ethnic trait. You guys all talk big and then always end up signing the Jagjit Singh Arora papers. Wanna see the picture?

GaaoN ma aag lagat he, aur susrey punjaibi buRhyaaN kahat hen ke koi humrey kanghan nahin dekhat he.

Today, the swarthy swarms of PPPs are marching, screaming, shouting, and throwing bricks against Mushy. Tomorrow these qismat ke maray haramzaaday will be marching, screaming, shouting, and throwing bricks at Ameer-ul-Momineen Hajrat Fajlur Rehman against having only two weeks to grow a foot long beard.

Chorro yaar Salim Bhai .. forget it.

Stop your rants. You have nothing to prove with facts and figures. I know you love hindoos, so go and sit in monkey laps and become a monkey. As long as you`re a Pakistani (or claim to be), Punjabis are the majority and they will always have the last say in major decisions, as you`re seeing right now. There`s not even been a stir in your Karachi.

So, open your eyes and come out of your delusions. If you look like a dravidian, that`s ok. You can go to bhindiland.

re: Karamatullah Ghori

Are you certain that Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry did not abuse his authority to get his son into police and live a lifestyle beyond the salary of a judge? Please share evidence to prove his innocence, before casting your verdict.

The manhandling of the CJ was wrong (it`s being investigated by the Supreme Court), but sending a reference against him to the Supreme Judicial Council is absolutely legal and proper. If there are any allegations against the man, he should answer to SJC. A judge with allegations of nepotism cannot function with moral authority. If Iftikhar Chaudhry is cleared by the SJC, his moral authority as CJ will be reinstated. Otherwise, he should be sent home to uphold the dignity of the Supreme Court.

Nobody is above the law, not even the CJ.

The govt`s decision to ban media coverage is also correct because this matter is sub judice. Media and opposition cannot be allowed to become judge, jury and executioner in its own cause.

However, characters like Wasi Zafar should be restrained because they just embarass the govt. And the SJC should not include the Acting CJ Justice Javed Iqbal.

#21 Zeemax,
Zeemax,
I love Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, Parsis, Buddhists, Shia Muslims, Hanafi Muslims, Ahmedi Muslims, and most other Muslims - all except for Wahaboobies like you, you pathetic racist loser and a PPP type. I have seen the picture of yourself that you have posted, and believe me, you ain`t purty, just barely human. Being descended from Persian, Turkish, and Rajput ancestors, I have nothing to brag about or be ashmed of. In the end, our own thoughts and deeds on this earth determine our pecking order - so you better go borrow a pecker.

#22, {``The manhandling of the CJ was wrong (it`s being investigated by the Supreme Court), but sending a reference against him to the Supreme Judicial Council is absolutely legal and proper. ...Nobody is above the law, not even the CJ. ``}

Your Excellency,
Very mature viewpoint and certainly more appealing than the swarms of liars marching up and down the province of Punjab trying to use this as an excuse to commit excesses again. Thanks.

Re: # 25

salim mian,

........... even though i am one of your most ardent admirers and supporters, i think this is one of the stoopidist posts i have read on the chowk - and god knows there is no dearth of stupidity on this forum .............. you are loosing it - please come back

#21 Zeemax {``As long as you`re a Pakistani (or claim to be), Punjaibis are the majority and they will always have the last say in major decisions, as you`re seeing right now. There`s not even been a stir in your Karachi. ``}

Ghazeemax Niazeemax,
There you go again with your PPP concept of ``democracy.`` True democracy does not mean mob rule, throwing bricks, or getting fondled by your fellow PPPs in black and white. Yes, I am an American citizen of Pakistani origin and I don`t have to convince you or any other PPPs - many of your cohorts have called me an Indian Muslim once they fail to counter my arguments.

PPPs may be the majority, but there is such a thing known as local government. Right now Karachi is enjoying a renaissance thank to limited self-rule and wise leadership. Therefore, no stir in Karachi in sympathy for the corrupt CJ or for the crazy PPP brick-throwing liars.

As for numbers, don`t forget that Saraikis don`t want to be included in the PPP numbers. They want self-determination for themselves. There are 15 million Urdu-speaking Pakis and another 100 million or more Urdu-speaking Muslims in the neighborhood. Don`t force us to get together with our own cousins. If those numbers are not convincing enough for you, perhaps another 400 - 500 million Hindi speakers may convince you about majority rule. :)

Now it`s all becoming clear. The Paki Mahapunju ex-PM is calling the shots via remote control and the PPPs are all responding:

Nawaz backs protests

By Our Special Correspondent

LONDON, March 15: Former prime minister Nawaz Sharif has appealed to the nation to participate in protests being held across Pakistan on Friday. In a statement issued here on Thursday, the PML-N chief said that the time had come for the people to ensure that those who dared to subjugate the judiciary were held accountable.

Mr Sharif said that after destroying the constitution and subjugating parliament, Gen Musharraf had now launched an attack on the institution responsible for providing justice to the people.

He said that the action against the chief justice had proven that the general was capable of going to any length in violating the tenets of law, civilised norms and morality to safeguard his “unconstitutional, illegal, undemocratic and immoral rule”.

The PML-N leader appealed to the youth, intellectuals, traders, labourers, students, elders and other sections of society to join lawyers in their protest to rid the country of those who had put the very existence of the country at risk.

Mr Sharif pledged to stand shoulder to shoulder with the people in this struggle and to render every sacrifice required.

Courtesy - Dawn March 16, 2007 Friday Safar 26, 1428

what the heck is the big deal here..optics of democratic freedoms don;t mean that there are institutions of democracy in place. Pakistan is a political basketcase. in a country of 160 million people, there is not one leader that can be produced. What is the reason? Punjoos, islam, weak stomach for political pain among the populace, need for a prophet, cousin marriages..etc etc..

Reaction in Sindh - obviously there are far more important matters than misbehaving and terrorist lawyers. The treasonous liars are getting no sympathy other than in Poonzab.


SHIKARPUR: CM threatens to dissolve Sindh Assembly

By Our Correspondent

SHIKARPUR, March 15: Sindh Chief Minister Dr Arbab Ghulam Rahim has said that the agitation launched by the lawyers and the opposition on the issue of the action against the chief justice can be considered as a conspiracy against national interests

He warned that if the opposition did not change its attitude, he had the right to dissolve the Sindh Assembly.

He was talking to journalists after prize distribution ceremony of Shikarpur Festival in Wazirabad on Thursday.

Dr Rahim said that the lawyers and the opposition leaders were trying to destroy peaceful atmosphere in the country and particularly in Sindh.

Answering a question about a statement made by Leader of the Opposition in Sindh Assembly, Nisar Ahmed Khuhro, the chief minister said that he wanted to serve the people well hence how could he (chief minister) hurl threats to the people. However, he said if Mr Khuhro was taking his very statement as a threat then ‘my threat to him is to avoid unfair attitude of creating confusion between the people and the government.”

Earlier Dr Rahim visited Shikarpur Festival, witnessed the horse and cattle show and sports festival organized by the district government.

District Nazim Mohammad Arif Mahar presented a shield, an Ajrak and a Sindhi cap to the chief minister.

The chief minister gave away shields to Mr Mahar, DCO Khwaja Shafiq Ahmed, festival coordinator Zahid Memon, convenor Dr Abdullah Sethar and deputy convener Abdul Karim Sehto.

Speaking on the occasion, the chief minister said that district governments would be encouraged to hold cultural festivals and horse and cattle shows throughout the province.

Courtesy - Dawn, March 16, 2007 Friday Safar 26, 1428 (T)

``He came to power through the back door by toppling a popularly elected PM in a macabre drama in which he was painted as a ‘victim’. ...``

and all of Pakistan celebrated..Pakista ni intelligentsia is 100% complicit in the overthrowing of democracy on a regular basis.

Re: # 45

ahmedmadani, i hope what you written is tongue in cheek. Otherwise, I believe our so call intelligentsia needs to have a reality check.

I just don`t understand why does Musharraf wants to go through the sham of democracy. Just declare himself dictator (cause he surely acts like one) in supreme national interest. That way he can keep abducting people,privatize assets, sell and allot property in Gwadar, clamp down on freedom of press in supreme national interests and people like you and me can be assured that its all for the betterment of country.

Re: # 31
I had written same thing, about picture of lawyer throwing brick to kill policeman. This is not going to lead to democracy but ancharchy and disruption. All this troubles started as CJ wanted to become executive boss.
PM Aziz as a PM has right to make economy decision. He wanted to privatise PSM so it start bleeding of money. It is white elephant producing misery and poverty. And he has contracted eith Arab company and russian co to sell that PSM. Judge stopped this plan. He should not get involved in such thing. Politics is money and more money. that was wrong doing. Now decision was taken at highest level od president and PM and elected people should have right to whatever they want about PSM.
Secondly missing people he should have not encouraged litigation. Things are not best. Now its open secret many missing people are transferred by GOP to usa prison in Cuba. So for national interest CJ should have used commonsense and avoided prooblems of missing people.
There is possibility of war or some action against Iran by USA so in such situation its better to have stability. Constitution is fine book and nothing more or less than useless unuseful impractical book. Hopw CJ asks nations forgiveness and resigns so national life goes on. Most of lawyer spent most of time defending rich and corroupt people, they are hired guns. Lawyers are disgusting bunch ( mohatma was one of them), They will kill loot and cheat any body for money, bunch of hooligans stone throwers.

For a country that has no fricking law, there sure are a lot of screaming, shouting, misbehaving lawyers in the Land of the Pure. Can anyone buy a black and white outfit and start to riot?

Chauhan sahib:

You have been very angry the past few days, but do try to calm down. The lawyers in Pakistan are doing nothing wrong. They are protesting. It is good to see a section of the upper class register their annoyance. They should have done so a long time back, especially when children were bombed by the US. Pakistanis need to fight for democracy. Now this may mean that the clergy comes to power (I doubt that though) and rights are further curtailed. But so what, if people do not like them then they ought to fight again. The fight for democracy should not be detered by the threat of fundamentalists comming to power. If people choose the fundamentalists then so be it. I strongly believe that Iranians are more politicized than Pakistanis and Iran is more democratic than Pakistan. As far as India is concerned, it is better for her to deal with real Pakistanis than with the `brown-sahibs` who claim to represent the people of Pakistan.

If Bush can use his powers why should not Musharaff is he more unique than his boss...

White House backtracks in row over U.S. attorneys
POSTED: 12:07 p.m. EDT, March 12, 2007
Story Highlights• Bill would end attorney general`s power to appoint prosecutors minus Senate OK
• Fired U.S. attorneys allege pressure from Justice Department, lawmakers
• Alberto Gonzales agrees to let aides testify about dismissals without subpoenas
• Reversal abrupt for administration known for standing firm despite opposition
Adjust font size:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Slapped even by GOP allies, the Bush administration is beating an abrupt retreat on eight federal prosecutors it fired and then publicly pilloried.

Just hours after Attorney General Alberto Gonzales dismissed the hubbub as an ``overblown personnel matter,`` a Republican senator Thursday mused that Gonzales might soon suffer the same fate as the canned U.S. attorneys.

A short time later, Gonzales and his security detail shuttled to the Capitol for a private meeting on Democratic turf, bearing two offerings:


President Bush would not stand in the way of a Democratic-sponsored bill that would cancel the attorney general`s power to appoint federal prosecutors without Senate confirmation. Gonzales` Justice Department previously had dismissed the legislation as unreasonable.


There would be no need for subpoenas to compel testimony by five of Gonzales` aides involved in the firings, as the Democrats had threatened. Cloistered in the stately hideaway of Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy, D-Vermont, the attorney general assured those present that he would permit the aides to tell their stories.

It was a striking reversal for an administration noted for standing its ground even in the face of overwhelming opposition.

Gone were the department`s biting assertions that the prosecutors were a bunch of ``disgruntled employees grandstanding before Congress.``

And the department no longer tried to shrug off the uproar as ``an overblown personnel matter,`` as Gonzales had written in an opinion piece published Thursday in USA Today.

Agency officials also ceased describing majority Democrats as lawmakers who would ``would rather play politics`` than deal with facts.

The shift from offense to silence was so abrupt that one of Bush`s chief advisers who was speaking out of town apparently missed the memo.

``My view is this is unfortunately a very big attempt by some in the Congress to make a political stink about it,`` presidential adviser Karl Rove said Thursday during a speech at the University of Arkansas Clinton School of Public Service.

Back in Washington, a consensus was emerging among senators of both parties, and Gonzales himself, that the firings had been botched chiefly because the prosecutors had not been told the reasons for their dismissals.

The matter snowballed -- some of those fired complained publicly, and a senior Justice Department official warned one that further complaints in the press would force the agency to defend itself, according to an e-mail made public this week.

On Tuesday, during an eight-hour marathon of congressional hearings, the Justice Department followed through. William Moschella, principal associate deputy attorney general, publicly enumerated the reasons each prosecutor was fired, one by one.

Flash forward two days, to Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, reading Gonzales` USA Today column into the record. He paused.

``One day there will be a new attorney general, maybe sooner rather than later,`` he mused. ``But these [prosecutors] who were plastered across the newspapers all across the country, they will never recover their reputations.``

Two staunch White House allies, Sens. Jon Kyl of Arizona and Jeff Sessions of Alabama, lamented the damage to the prosecutors` resumes -- adding, however, that the uproar had been the result of poor execution rather than a political purge.

The prosecutors weren`t the only ones whose reputations suffered. One, New Mexico`s David Iglesias, said the dismissals followed calls from members of Congress -- Sen. Pete Domenici and Rep. Heather Wilson, New Mexico Republicans -- concerning sensitive political corruption investigations.

Still unclear is whether Gonzales will allow his aides to speak with the Senate panel in private or at a public hearing. The House Judiciary Committee on Thursday also demanded to speak with the officials.

They are: Michael Elston, Kyle Sampson, Monica Goodling, Bill Mercer and Mike Battle.

Sampson is Gonzales` chief of staff, Elston is staff chief to Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty and Mercer is associate attorney general. Goodling is Gonzales` senior counsel and White House liaison, and Battle is the departing director of the office that oversees the 93 U.S. attorneys.

THANK YOUR SELF THAT YOU LIVE In PAKISTAN AND NOT IN BENGAL OF BUDDHA(HITLER)


The Gestapo of modern day – the communist controlled cops of West Bengal butchered innocent farmers of Nandigarm. The killings were unprovoked. It was planned massacre the same way Chinese kill their own farmers. The style was that of fascist. Guess who led all that – the contemporary Buddha of India!

What happened in Nadigram requires United Nations intervention. Government of India and Indian Army will not stop the Gestapo of West Bengal. The cops in West Bengal on the order from Communists to protect oligarchs of India did the same all across the state. They killed and injured countless innocent farmers who want their land back that was snatched illegally from them. Tata wants to build $2250 car in Singur for the Asian markets! The communists want a Special Economic Zones (SEZs) in Nandigram for more tax revenues from export to the West. Tata and communists joined hands to illegally steal lands from the poor farmers. Boeing Corporation of America was thrilled to have Tata fly the F18!

The massacre was typical the way the fascists controlled the crowd and opposition in Hitler’s Germany. Buddhadev Bhattacharya, the communist Chief Minister of West Bengal (known as Buddha of modern day!) is still indifferent about the cold-blooded murder of the farmers in West Bengal. Tata says he wants his cars fast from Singur so that he can buy another ‘Corus’ from Europe. The communists want money from SEZ in Nadigram - they care nothing for the farmers.

Mr. Ghori:
If you criticise Pakistan Govt at this rate, your pension might get stopped. So be careful

Kamath

I have no position on this whole CJP issue of who is right and who is wrong and whether justice is being suppressed or whether the real power center is simply being reaffirmed. I wish the Justice Chaudhry the best, as I do the country at large, and perhaps as I do even mian Mushy – who is after all, only a benign dictator.

Irrespective of the personal honesty of the CJP, the fact is that every one of those Supreme Court judges has taken an oath of loyalty – to the army. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong – but does not that mean that the army IS the boss – and if you disagree with the boss, aren’t you supposed to quit rather than try sneaky moves – legislating from the bench and the like?! At least that is how it works in the corporate world – so why would the Chief Executive-e-Pakistan settle for any less?

In all of this commotion, somehow the sight is being lost of the fact that the average Pakistani has NO say in any of this stuff. He or she continues with the daily grind and struggle. And the sad truth is that the average Pakistani is now highly apathetic – he or she does not even care any more!

On a lighter note, even I have written “open letters” to the General Mushy, right here on this web-site (a bit risky, but poor Yasser has often needed to be bailed out after what he has written of the General’s allegedly canine lineage in the past)! Now I know why the General never paid any attention to my open letters – apparently he gets quite a few of these.

On a “brighter” note – at least certain chowkies got some international media attention out of this whole sorry episode.

See, even dark clouds have silver linings.

Also, if I remember correctly,

(1) Didn`t the Mushy take power in a clear violation of the Pakistani constitution?

(2) Didn`t the Pakistani Supreme Court validate his self-elevation to the post? So why this charade of an ``independent`` judiciary?!!

(3) Didn`t the voters of Pakistan confirm his appointment by over 90 percent majority? How many votes can the Supreme Court judges gather?

Undemocratic? Yes. But what IS democratic over there?!

To those who are interested about the recent killings in Bengal (Warning, long post):

The communists came to power in Bengal in the mid seventies and have been ruling the state since then. They implemented something which has not been implemented anywhere else in India - Land Reforms. That is, land was transferred to those who were cultivating the land. But there was a catch, and a big one at that. The cultivators had only use rights and heriditary rights but not property rights. So the cultivator could not sell the land. This bound peasants all over Bengal to the party apparatus. The communists hit a jackpot!

Around the late eighties things began to change. It had to do with fertilizer and pesticides. Crop patterns started changing and cultivators started shifting to the production of vegetables especially in central Bengal. The surplus income, coupled with education, encouraged migration to `office jobs`. The drain of labor encouraged the employment of, amongst others, illegal migrants from Bangladesh. The communists (as well as the congress in places like Malda) found a larger vote bank and things went on quite smoothly. The communists and the congress opposed the chauvanistic students movement in Assam against the illegal Bangladeshis.

But then came fundamentalism. The poor migrants from Bangladesh were treated like dirt anyways, their solace came from religious parties. Along with the growth of Islamic fundamentalism came Hindu fundamentalism fostered by the BJP. The communists saw evidence of this from nearby Assam and from Bengal itself. It was time to change priorities. The change in the aspirations of their traditional vote bank had to be accomodated. Therefore the change in focus to industrialization. This change has been very rapid creating confusion and disenchantment in the party cadres.

A minor aspect of industrialization is the procurement of land. Recall that property rights were taken away. So it was quite easy for the government, or so they thought, to `compensate` the farmers to give up their use rights. Things actually went quite well for the govt. in Singur where almost all cultivators (who were hardly cultivating anymore by themselves) readily sold their use rights. But there was a glitch, as always - there were the real cultivators who went uncompensated. Enter Mamta B. of the Trinamool Congress. She got the `cultivators` organized and we have history repeating itself all over again. What history you ask. The history under S.S.Ray which brought the CPM into power, wherein hundreds if not thousands were killed by the govt. and the naxalites.

Since I have time to kill, let me tell you guys another story. A story which follows up on the turbulent 60s in Bengal and a story which might interest my Pakistani friends here in chowk. For it has to do with the 71 war.

Bengal was in flames. Jungal Sauthal (spelling?) and Kanu Sanyal threw open the gates of radical communism in North Bengal. The naxalites were born. They drew their name from a village called Naxalbari where the fire of the ``revolution`` was lit. ``Bhulbo pari babar nam, bhulbo na Vietnam`` (I may forget my father`s name but I shall not forget Vietnam) was the battle cry. Students, even from Presidency College Calcutta, left their classes in droves and joined the movement. (Later on I was taught by one of these students who broke Amartya Sen`s B.A. record from jail). There was violence all around. The chief minister S. S. Ray used the police to kill, maim and torture the naxalites. The naxals were also not far behind. I do not know whether wikipedia records it, but interested people may try to get informed about the ``Sai bari massacre``.

The flame was spreading. East Pakistan was lit by cinders and the cold winds from the Himalayas spread the flame. China declared that ``Spring Thunder had broken over India``. This late shower lead to the sprouting of communist leaders in East Pakistan. Along with the flow of refugees came the communists. They bloated the ranks of the naxalites and they were lead by a charismatic leader called ``Tiger Siddiquie`` (spelling?; plus I do not know what happened to this guy, actually I just know his name and nothing more than that). S.S. Ray was desperate, he wanted the menace of the naxalites to end. He wanted Indira`s help, the police were not enough! He wanted Indira to get into East Pakistan to stop the flow of communists! Did Indira heed the call? I do not know.

I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know. But people like arjun and HP could garnish (positively or negatively) this thesis. However, I know one thing - contemporary research on history stems from the present perception of reality, people hardly go back and try to understand how people THOUGHT back then in what we call history. What do I know .... these are stories told by uncles and aunts who lived in strange lands and in strange times ... way back in HISTORY.

#39#40
GT thank you for your detailed account of the story of that region and would agree with it very much

Re: # 44

salim mian,

...... either way, you have lost it ! ........ i can`t believe that you are now siding with the mohajir military dictator because you think the ppps are against him ......... what are the chaudaries of gujarat - germans ? ......... in any case, since altaf bhai is distancing himself from mushy you might change your mind tomorrow .........

...... just to show that there are no hard feelings, i still support the repatriation of stranded biharis in bangladesh, even though we already have a railways minister just as good as lallu and i don`t think we need any more pan shops ..............

#35 by hamidm2 on March 16, 2007 6:31pm PT
{``Re: # 25
salim mian,
........... even though i am one of your most ardent admirers ..... you are loosing it ``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Thank you for your kind comments. Let me state you too rank right up there with Maulana Urstruly in my books.
Please clarify what you found so stupid in my post #25. I was merely exchanging demographic data with Mr. Zeemax concerning the number of Urdu/Hindi speakers in the neighborhood in response to his claim about ``majority`` rule.

``loosing`` it - really Hamidum Sahib? Please tell me, were all of you PPP fellows instructed in English by the same professor at ``Goremint`` College? ``Lose`` is what Maulana Urstruly does on Chowk, ``loose`` is more apropos for Lahoris. :)

#40 GT

[I am not saying that the communists instigated the war, I simply do not know.]

Yes, you are not SAYING it, merely planting a hint through this “do not know” bit – just like any one of the countless (and what I can only call dishonest) interactors and writers on this site – creating false shadows for others to chase on – this site’s reason for being, from all appearances.

The Bengali communists have committed quite a few idiocies in their time – including burning movie halls because a contemporary movie contained such pearls of wisdom as “Chao, Mao, Kao – sir jhukaao!” and yet surprisingly, many of their “leaders” from those times have perhaps sneaked into the USA and similar places – leading a comparatively cushy life! But they should not be credited for the 1971 war.

That baby was fathered and carried throgh its nine-month term by the West Pakistanis all by themselves!

The basic reasons and the chronology of events leading to the 1971 war is well known and well documented.

And if someday the (West) Pakistanis will develop the courage and the testicular fortitude, they may even open up and read the Hamidur Rehman report, too.

Woh subhaa kabhie to aayegi…

But nobody is holding their breath for that great day to arrive! :)

Re: # 50

bj,

.... thanks for reminding me to praise ylh ..... i have always been one of his staunchest supporters and have great hopes for the young man .......... i wish him the best in his crusade for democracy in pakistan and campaign against nudity across the border ........

ylh zindabad !
pakistan zindabad !

#47 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 6:29am PT

Hamidm2 sahib, I wish to thank you for your benevolence toward my fellow Bihari here whose well-being I am equally (or even more) concerned about. This “siding with the military dictator” is surely a temporary aberration due to unavoidable circumstances. When all the choices are terrible, sometimes the good folks have to settle for the less than ideal! I believe you should reason with your soulmate – the Tauheed sahib, to hold back his barbed stingers which seem to have caused most of the injuries to the Salim – and start showing him the understanding that he is entitled to!

I have also noticed that – unlike the other Chowkies, you have been less than fulsome in praising the Manto for this latest feather in his cap – this scalp of the BBC now under his belt, safely tucked away – where you can look at (but not touch) and only feel jealous! Please do not feel jealous.

Needless to say, this is just the right time for all the overseas Pakistani patriots to come together and join hands and strike one for the democratic forces of that country by donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Manto – after whatever is left after donating generously to the campaign coffers of the Honorable Eatallofus Towns! :)

#49

`the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people `

This is now changing... you will see in a generation or two people will be going back to Punjabi language... in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu in the house they only speak it at school or wherever it is required, but we never speak in Urdu to each other... From my frequent visits to Pak, i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, this is also helped with the easing of visas for Punjabi ppl from India...

slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over...

Re: # 58 Hamidm2
You are not alone. This guy (Syed Jamaluddin) may agree with you.

Re: # 52

tahmed mian,

yiou ask: ``is there anything about your identity that you are proud of?``

........ no, not really? ..... actually, come to think of it, i really don`t have an identity and don`t want one either ......... when i was growing up my maternal grandfather used to tease me for being the son of a `teez-mar` (gas-passing) `dal-khor` punjabi so i never wanted to be identified as a punjabi ....... but then he also used to say things like ``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast `` (urdu is like milk, farsi is milk and sugar and pushtu is like a donkey`s fart`) - i think he said these cruel things because he was a dari speaker and grandma was a pukhtu speaker ............ but it turned me off niswar and i don`t want to be identified as a pathan either ........

....... and even though i am properly circumcised and finished the koran many times, i don`t want to be identified as a muslim ...... why? .... the answer is obvious - half of them are suicidal and the other half is homicidal ........ and that is in addition to the problems with personal hygiene and facial hair (which also explains my aversion to being identified as a sikh) ........ i had toyed with the idea of reverting to hindooism and walking tall and proud as a shining indian, until i ran into the heeng eating horrible hindoos ........... so, i remain a man without an identity ...........

#49 hamidm: is there anything about your identity that you are proud of? and please remember that you are at best talking of your own experiences only when saying that all muslims take the lota to work, or that panjabis have an inferiority complex, or when saying that a white man can do no wrong. Where does all this negative energy come from??

Re: # 53

bj,

............i agre with geneive abdo 100% and more .............. regardless of tahmed`s positive spin, the world is in for big trouble with a raging islam - and that includes horrible hindoos like you .......... if it is any consolation, as an apostate and whatnot, i will be in trouble long before you ...........

Tauheed sahib, is Geneive Abdo on the dot?

---

A More Islamic Islam

By Geneive Abdo
Saturday, March 17, 2007; A19
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A small group of self-proclaimed secular Muslims from North America and elsewhere gathered in St. Petersburg recently for what they billed as a new global movement to correct the assumed wrongs of Islam and call for an Islamic Reformation.

Across the state in Fort Lauderdale, Muslim leaders from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the Washington-based advocacy group whose members the ``secular`` Muslims claim are radicals, denounced any notion of a Reformation as another attempt by the West to impose its history and philosophy on the Islamic world.

The self-proclaimed secularists represent only a small minority of Muslims. The views among religious Muslims from CAIR more closely reflect the views of the majority, not only in the United States but worldwide. Yet Western media, governments and neoconservative pundits pay more attention to the secular minority.

The St. Petersburg convention is but one example: It was carried live on Glenn Beck`s conservative CNN show. Some of the organizers and speakers at the convention are well known thanks to the media spotlight: Irshad Manji, author of ``The Trouble With Islam,`` and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the former Dutch parliamentarian and author of ``Infidel,`` were but a few there claiming to have suffered personally at the hands of ``radical`` Islam. One participant, Wafa Sultan, declared on Glenn Beck`s show that she doesn`t ``see any difference between radical Islam and regular Islam.``

The secular Muslim agenda is promoted because these ideas reflect a Western vision for the future of Islam. Since the Sept. 11 attacks, everyone from high-ranking officials in the Bush administration to the author Salman Rushdie has prescribed a preferred remedy for Islam: Reform the faith so it is imbued with Western values -- the privatization of religion, the flourishing of Western-style democracy -- and rulers who are secular, not religious, Muslims. The problem with this prescription is that it is divorced from reality. It is built upon the principle that if Muslims are fed a steady diet of Western influence, they, too, will embrace modernity, secularism and everything else the West has to offer.

Consider the facts: Islamic revivalism has spread across the globe in the past 30 years from the Middle East to parts of Africa. In Egypt, it is hard to find a woman on the street who does not wear a headscarf. Islamic political groups and movements are on the rise -- from Hezbollah in Lebanon, to Hamas in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Even in the United States, more and more American Muslims, particularly the young, are embracing Islam and religious symbolism in ways their more secular, immigrant parents did not.

I traveled to Florida to serve as the keynote speaker at an annual convention hosted by CAIR. On my way to the event, I spoke with Imam Siraj Wahaj, a charismatic intellectual from the Masjid Al-Taqwa in Brooklyn who has thousands of followers here and abroad. His words summarized the aspirations of mainstream Muslims in the United States and around the globe: ``What we need to do is borrow those attributes from the West that we admire and reject those that we don`t. That is the wave of the future.``

Already, signs support Imam Wahaj`s words. Muslims living in the West and those in the Islamic world are searching for this middle ground -- one that fuses aspects of globalization with the Islamic tradition. For example, Muslim women have far greater access to higher education today than ever before. In Iran, there are more women than men in universities, a first in the country`s history. But as increasing numbers of Muslim women become more educated, majorities are becoming more religious while also taking part in what are called Islamic feminist movements, which stretch from Egypt to Turkey and Morocco.

These women, who often wear headscarves to express their religiosity, have found this gray area between modernity and traditionalism. They are fighting for more rights to participate in politics and greater equality in ``personal status`` laws -- the right to gain custody of children or to initiate divorce -- but also view Islam as their moral compass.

Similarly, the political future of the Arab world is likely to consist of Islamic parties that are far less tolerant of what has historically been the U.S. foreign policy agenda in the region and that domestically are far more committed to implementing sharia law in varying degrees.

In Europe and the United States, where Muslims have maximum exposure to Western culture, they are increasingly embracing Islamic values. In Britain, a growing number of Muslims advocate creating a court system based upon Islamic principles.

What all this means is that Western hopes for full integration by Muslims in the West are unlikely to be realized and that the future of the Islamic world will be much more Islamic than Western.

Instead of championing the loud voices of the secular minority who are capturing media attention with their conferences, manifestos and memoirs, the United States would be wise instead to pay more attention to the far less loquacious majority.

Geneive Abdo is the author of ``Mecca and Main Street: Muslim Life in America After 9/11.``

#53 bjkumar: he does make some valid points. but he ignores some significant points and so does not have any actionable conclusion to offer.

Specifically, he ignores the distinction between emphasizing the ``muslim identity`` vs. criminal actions in the name of islam. Thus, if someone puts on a headscarf (as he laments is happening in egypt), that does not mean she is going to blow herself up. I personally consider this ``muslim identity`` to be rooted in the ``tribal mentality`` - the same mentality that one sees on chowk in spades. While regrettable, it is not criminal.

similarly, while his warning against attempts to introduce the sharia (read: writ laws that are not subject to the popular will expressed through the democratic process) is I think valid - but again, there is no broad-based support to it, certainly not in Pakistan where ``hadood laws`` are widely condemned as being gimmicks by military dictators.

These are my two cents. What do you think?

#25 by Salim_Chauhan re #21 Zeemax {``As long as you`re a Pakistani (or claim to be), Punjabis are the majority and they will always have the last say in major decisions, as you`re seeing right now. There`s not even been a stir in your Karachi. ``}

Mr Salim Chauhan, when I said majority, I should have clarified what kind of majority.

Punjab alone is 2/3rd of the population. All the 3 other provinces plus the Northern Areas, FATA and AJK combined are 1/3.

Therefore, Punjab will always set the direction, and it is fair. Punjab is 2/3rd Pakistan, and no one should crib about it. Besides, Punjab has not stolen anyone`s rights but rather subsidised them as I have proven several times through facts & figures.

Re: # 57

zeemax,

sure, here you go .... this is what i said about your ninja girls : `` i wouldn`t support their stand even if they prayed in the nude ! ``

............ it is a matter of principle - it has nothing to do with their attire (or lack thereof)

#56 by hamidm2

Hamidm did you answer my question re the ninjas of Jamia Hafsa and their demands on the other board? If you did it would be very kind of you to c/p here because Ican`t find it.

hamidm: you write i remain a man without an identity .......

let me then help you.....

do you deny your identity as a human being?

if you do....then see all these various traditions (ethnic, like pathan, panjabi etc., or religious like hindu, muslim etc, eastern, western and so forth) as being all part of the rich fabric of human history, particularly of the past 10,000 years. And you can consider yourself heir to ALL of these traditions. And be proud, because without this rich history, you and I and everyone else would be hopping from one tree to another howling ``paki! paki! paki!`` or something like that, searching for berries.

if you do indeed consider yourself to be without even the identity of a human being, then we can talk some more... :-)

Re: # 59

pepe le pew,

.... i hate to disappoint you, but even though i might occassionaly suffer from an identity crisis, i am a firm believer in the union of pakistan and the liberation of kashmir ......... as tahmed points out i`d rather be a paki than a monkey ``hopping from one tree to another howling ``paki! paki! paki!``

....... tahmed, thanks for your counselling :)

#58 Hamidm2

[``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast ``]

Sir, I am immensely relieved to learn that he stopped there and did not try to extrapolate to other languages of the region and of the world!

Hamidm Sahib:

Please go easy on Salim sahib, and continue to support him. He and Yasser stand out at Chowk. Salim was only correcting the fundoo Urstruly`s attempt to misinform chowkies. He, like Yasser, has tendency to let emotions take control.

#55 Zeemax {``Punjab alone is 2/3rd of the population. All the 3 other provinces plus the Northern Areas, FATA and AJK combined are 1/3.
Therefore, Punjab will always set the direction, and it is fair. Punjab is 2/3rd Pakistan, and no one should crib about it.``}

Mr. Zeemax,
Surely you exaggerate with that 2/3 ratio. Regardless, in 1971, Punjab was much less than 1/2 the population, now you say it is 2/3. At the rate you PPPs have been behaving, you will soon be 100% of the population. Good luck, sir.

Re: # 67

Mohajirs had it coming. Being a mohajir myself, I remember the slogans MQM used to have spray painted all over Karachi ``Crush the corrupt Pakistan Army``. They were the warlords before the operation started.

With their slogan of SOS (security ourSelves) they have provided Klashinkovs to every kid. With their unit incharges, sector incharge they were involved in target killing. If Altaf Hussain comes back, he will be killed by a mohajir (most probably some father, mother, brother or sister of some MQM worker who was sacrificed by Altaf Hussain).

On being power hungry, nobody is more power hungry than Altaf Hussain. Of all the ethnic communities in Pakistan, only Altaf Hussain is capable of killing his own party men i.e., Azeem Ahmed Tariq or Khalid Bin Waleed. They were behind the murder of Hakeem Saeed and would have even killed Edhi to achieve some political mileage.

#47 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 6:29am PT
{``Re: # 44
salim mian,
...... either way, you have lost it ! ........ i can`t believe that you are now siding with the mohajir military dictator because you think the ppps are against him ......... ``}

Hamidum Sahib,
I am siding with the ``Mohajir military dictator`` ONLY because he put an end to the massacre of Mohajirs in Karachi at the hands of the PPP Rangers. He also rid Pakistan of the corrupt and power-hungry yet ``democratically-elected`` ex-PM PPP Nawaz Sharif who has Mohajir blood on his hands. I am glad to learn about your lip-service to the so-called Biharis - the loyal Pakis ``stranded`` in BD. May Allah put some caffeine in your intoxicating refreshments.

#68, Dear Mr. Vanguad,
The sins of Altaf Hussain or Amir Khan should not be used to justify the killing, torture, and looting of Mohajirs in their own homes in Karachi and Hyderabad. If a terrorist group kills people for political leverage, it is still not right for the security forces of a nation to kill innocent citizens who may belong to the same ethnic/linguistic group as the miscreants. The good thing about Mushy is that he put an end to the massacres and the occupation of Karachi. If he goes, I am worried about more bloodshed by the PPP Rangers.

#68, vanguard {``Mohajirs had it coming``}

Mr. Vanguard,
Using your logic, my friend, maybe the Muslims of the world had it coming. 100% of the 9/11 WTC and Pentagon mass murderers and terrorists were Muslim. 100% of the Madrid train station killers were Muslim. 100% of the London subway bombings were Muslim. 100% of the attackers of the Indian parliament and various Kashmiri terrorists were Muslim. The plot against the US, resulting in almost 3,000 innocent deaths, was hatched, planned, and executed by Al Kayda leaders, who were in Afghanistan/Pakistan and are still being sheltered in the remote caves of Pakistan.

Re: # 71

salim mian,

``Maulana Urstruly`s defamation of a public figure`` ........ i am sorry, now who did he defame ?.......... i must have missed it ........ but you really shouldn`t pay too much attention to urstruly - he is a wretched soul who hates everyone ......

#65 by anil on March 17, 2007 12:28pm PT
{``Hamidm Sahib:

Please go easy on Salim sahib, and continue to support him. He and Yasser stand out at Chowk. Salim was only correcting the fundoo Urstruly`s attempt to misinform chowkies.``}

Anil Bhai,
Thank you for noticing and explaining my sense of outrage at Maulana Urstruly`s defamation of a public figure. Our steamed Hamidum Sahib will buy Urstruly a drink but will not spank him for lying in public - it`s a PPP thing.

Honestly, as an insignificant Mohajir and a hated traitor, I don`t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with the honorable future PM of Pakistani Punjab. :)

Ally Sahib #51 {``in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu i.. i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, ...slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over... ``}

Ally Sahib,
Very few of us Mohajirs are Urdu missionaries. We don`t care if you switch to Serbo-Croat or Swahili as your mother tongue. :)

Judging from the standard of PPP usage of English on Chowk, we can safely assume that Lahore will not be confused for London anytime soon. :)

Re: # 74

...... have you heard the one about sir arthur, his ahle-zaban knight and the chastity belt ?

Salim

That reply was meant for Hamid Sahib anywayus, I`m not really bothered what you think, Urdu is no longer just your language it is the national language and therefore everyone in the country will know some of it at least to get by... but as English is being used more people will know Urdu but not give it as much importance... this is happening all over Pakistan and India in those areas where Urdu/Hindi isn`t the native language for ppl... i dont associate Urdu with mohajirs for us its simply a link language that links the various ppl together... what you think or dont think is of no concern to me or most other ppl...

Ally #74 {``what you think or dont think is of no concern to me or most other ppl...``}

Ally,
Likewise - now we are getting somewhere. :) Most of us Mohajirs just want to be free from oppression. You go your way, we`ll go ours. Peace be unto you. :) You pull your Army out of Karachi and we will ask Mushy to come home. :)

#73 by hamidm2 on March 17, 2007 1:33pm PT
{``Re: # 71
salim mian,
``Maulana Urstruly`s defamation of a public figure`` ........ i am sorry, now who did he defame ?.......... i must have missed it ........ but you really shouldn`t pay too much attention to urstruly - he is a wretched soul who hates everyone ......``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Maulana Urstruly swore that Mrs. Sehba Musharraf is a ``Mirzaee.`` This is an utter lie and deliberate defamation against the First Lady of Pakistan. Had it been true, I would have defended her right to practice the faith of her choice.

I pay a lot of attention to Maulana Urstruly - for very good reason. While I am not at all frightened of the so-called `liberal`` PPPs such as Zeemax, Manto Bhai, and Chacha Buttees, Maulana Urstruly and his type are of significant concern - they have even managed to entice some stupid Mohajirs to their side. The ``liberal`` elite among the PPPs are a known group of Mohajir-haters that all of us recognize and none of us trusts.

Regarding #77 itself regarding #74,
...and Sir Lancelot (an ALLY of King Arthur) was speechless. :)

Re: bjkumar # 79

With all due to respect to the author, the article was more an emotional jab than an analysis of the situation in Pakistan and did not really address the basic issues. The unfortunate fallout of the crisis is that once again, we in Pakistan, are making the same mistake of hoisting our hopes on to a pedestal from which they will surely fall once more. The mistake in this case is that the person of the chief justice has been made into a hero and once more, we are wrongly concentrating on the personalities rather than the issues.

This crisis/situation is not about the charges filed against the chief justice of Pakistan or the dismissal of the chief justice himself, but hinge around the very basic constitutional issue about the legality of the reference itself.

The question at stake is who has the right to interpret the law in Pakistan; the judicial or execcutive branch of the government?

In my opinion, this is a unique situation, because the heart of the debate is not about sharia or liberal politics versus religious conservatism, but about consititutional law and within that, about the meaning of the idea of the separation of powers. The unique nature of the situation is that for the first time since 1947, a key political debate in Pakistan is being decided on a purely secular agrument of constitutional law and the issue of justice and not the ideology of Pakistan or the meaning of Pakistan. Whatever the final outcome of the debate, it will address the issues of balance of power and ``check and balances`` within the three branches of government in Pakistan.

Pakistan has a golden and a very rare opportunity, in the shape of the present crisis, to redefine its constitutional compass and to reassert the idea of the separation of powers that was constitutionally discredited by the judiciary itself in its legal decisions, since the 1950s, condoning extra-constitutional acts by the executive branch of the government. The opportunity does not merely come from the chance to revive the dead spirt of constitutionalism in Pakistan, but from the pleasant realization that the debate is being influenced and argued by secularists; educated members of legal community on a secular issue - constitutional law. It is for this very reason that the mainstream political parties or the religious alliance is not in the forefront of this debate and it is because of this very fact, the the politicans in Pakistan cannot use religion to score political points against the government, that this debate has assumed the proportions of pushing Pakistani politics towards a definitive point.

Will it make a difference? Yes; it will but only if the legal community in Pakistan is to able to argue the merits of consitutional issues and keep this debate limited to issues of justice and constitutionalism and does not allow the politicans to hijack this crisis for their own narrow minded interests.

Has anything changed that might a difference in the nature of political power in Pakistan?

Since 1950s, historically, the judiciary in Pakistan has acted in collboration with the executive to undermine the legislative branch but in this crisis, we are witnessing a new realignment of the judiciary with the legislative against the executive. Hence, the ratios of political power in Pakistan have already altered and for the first time in the history of Pakistan, the power of the executive branch has been checkmated.

I cannot answer about the future, but the crisis has already made a difference in Pakistani politics and from thesedifferences, we will see more ripple effects and one of these effects would be now the issue of the supremacy of parliament in Pakistan will have a constitutional momentum which was lacking since the 1950s` dismissal of the Constituent Assemby by the Governor-General of Pakistan.

It will make a difference, because Pakistani politics have turned a corner and whether turn will result in good or bad for the nation is another question. :)

Hope this answers your query.

Ciao

Dear Interactors,

Does anyone think that this thing with the judiciary is actually going to make a real difference to the way power is shared in Pakistan or is it just another mini-replay of what we have seen countless times before?

It is a genuine question, serious answers only, please!

My own guess is ``no`` - but my knowledge is less expansive than every other chowkie here!

Revolt is brewing in the ranks of Pak army, 6 corps commanders have expressed discontent with the Pervez Musharraf. It is also reported that Tariq Aziz orchestrated the attack on Geo news:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/mar/17pakcj.htm

Re: # 81 Tahmed

``“I am blamed for everything,”

That is shameful behavior on the part of the Generalissmo. A ship`s captain is ultmately responsible for its well being. Nobody put a gun to the General`s head to act on Shaukat`s `recommendation` (if indeed that was the case). But if he did, then he should accept responsibility for it and quit blaming others. Also, Musharraf successfuly blamed Nawaz for Kargil -- he is one helluva slippery eel. I say screw the el Presidente. Long live the Chief Justice!

When the going gets tough....
....the tough point to their prime minister

(From Dawn)
No personal differences with chief justice: Musharraf
...Addressing a rally in the eastern city of Pakpatan, Musharraf termed the attack on a private TV channel a conspiracy aimed at lowering his image. He said he had “no personal differences” with Justice Chaudhry, and had acted against the judge after receiving a case against him from the prime minister. “I am blamed for everything,” state-run Pakistan Television quoted him as saying.

#74 Ally {``Urdu is no longer just your language it is the national language and therefore everyone in the country will know some of it at least to get by... ``}

Ally,
When you PPPs cure yourself of your verbal handicap and speech impediment concerning the Q and K; Kh and K; and Gh and G sounds, please come back and tell us that Urdu is your language too. :)

Bollywood actors, including Hindu ones, have done a wonderful job in adopting Urdu as the lingua franca of the Indian entertainment world. The least you could do is to emulate their success. You guys not only massacre us in our own city, but do you have to butcher our language too?

#58, Hamidum2 {``when i was growing up my maternal grandfather used to tease me for being the son of a `teez-mar` (gas-passing) `dal-khor` punjabi so i never wanted to be identified as a punjabi ....... but then he also used to say things like ``urdu sheer ast, farsi sheer o` shakar ast, pukhtu goz-i-khar ast `` (urdu is like milk, farsi is milk and sugar and pushtu is like a donkey`s fart`)``}

Hamidum Sahib,

Kheili mamnuman...Hal-e-shoma chetor ast?
Bebakhshid, what did your wise maternal grandfather say about Punjabi? To many of us it sounds like someone shouting very loudly and painfully with marbles rolling around in his mouth.
Urdu is merely a half-hearted attempt at preserving our wonderful Farsi language and adab that was forcibly taken away from us by the British in the early 19th century. :(

there is no such thing as a good dictator. musharaff should go sooner rather than later.
since we are in farsi speaking mode, musharraf should be aware of this saying, `agar dar khaneh kas ast, yek harf bas ast`.

Re: # 90

jawaab e jaahilaan khamushi baashad.

if our team believed in `ghaus paak day` ie. gyaarvin sharif, like all sunnis they migh