Understanding the Death Fatwa on Taslima Nasreen

#332 by kisan

SO you bought the book, read it cover to cover but did not know the name of the author or the translator...hehehehe

You don`t know squat.

Liar...

Problem for Qadianis – Is Quran lying or Ghulam?

The False Account of Asma bint Marwan

Prophet Muhammad(saw) has been accused of ordering the killing of Asma bint Marwan after she had insulted him(saw) through her poetry. She was a poetess and a mother for whose death our Prophet(saw) is being held responsible.

Any student of Islam knows that the life of Prophet Muhammad(saw) has been described in detail in what are called the “Ahadith”. Ahadith in whole are basically collected stories, events, actions of the Prophet(saw). However not all the stories transmitted down by a chain of narrators are cent percent true. There are many sahih, hasan, da’eef (weak) ahadith. For Muslims it was very important to develop a science of hadith to separate truth from falsehood.

There are two places where this story about the killing of Asma bint Marwan has been reported and those are:

1) Kitab at-Tabaqat al-Kabir

and

2) Kinz ul Ummal

In Kinz ul Ummal this story is related under number 44131 and has been attributed to three people namely Ibn Asaker, Ibn Sad and Ibn Adiyy.

Ibn Adiyy is also the author of the book Al-Kamel and in that book he has mentioned this incident and on the authority of Jafar Ibn Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn As-Sabah on authority of Muhammad Ibn Ibrahim Ash-Shami on authority of Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj Al-Lakhmi on authority of Mujalid on authority of Ash-Shu’abi on authority of Ibn ‘Abbas, he has added the following:

This isnad (chain of reporters) is not narrated on authority of Mujalid but by Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj and they all (other reporters in the chain) accuse Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj of forging it. (Al-Kamel Vol 6, pg. 145)

Ibn al-Gawzi in his book Al-Ilal (Vol. 1, pg. 279) mentioned that this report was false. This report is also listed among other flawed reports.

Hence in conclusion this report is nothing but a fabricated lie – a forgery and should be discarded.

#328, HP, says I`m a liar, liar, liar and says fk, fk, fk.

I think you`re losing it in your impotent rage.....

The book I bought from Oxford University Press. It has 813 pages + index and introduction not exactly what you yanked off the net. I have the original. It`s MRP is 700rs and I bought it for 700Indian Rs with a 10% discount from Oxford Uni Press in India. I bought 3 copies, two for friends.

The Khatma`s were obviously a very small time tribe of a few folks and not some major historical dynasty, fkhead.

The story is pukka in the major historical biography of the Prophet, who the translator is doesn`t change whether Asma Bint Marwan is in it or not. It`s in the original.

You are shooting blanks with your line of attack and now lost it completely so screaming Liar and fk, fk, fk.

Your crude attempt to bully isn`t working out so piss off or if you have any basic manners apologise for your fake accusations of Liar.

PS.
The answer to the first question you ask is affirmative in your case.

#330 by zeemax

Yaar Zee, you`re celebrating the girls` victory over a proven coward like Mushy?

Daily Dawn: Govt accepts Lal Masjid demands: All issues settled: Shujaat

ISLAMABAD, April 24: The government has agreed to accept all demands put forward by the Lal Masjid management, including the enforcement of Sharia in the country .... The PML chief assured the mosque administration and girl students of Jamia Hasfa that the government was ready to accept all their demands, including the enforcement of Sharia.

I wonder the power of ``which type of Islam`` of a bunch of burqa clad girls made a powerful state like Pakistan surrender? And with not even a single act of violence, suicide or otherwise, but just the threat?

Oh well ...

#323 by kaalchakra

[I don`t believe that Islam (the unreal one, in your view) is as `bad` as you make it out to be. It has its own internal and external logics. It can indeed be a perfect religion IF you accept those logics.]

kaalchakra,

Most of the time I am in splits reading your posts. :)

But tell me, you meant to say ``premises``, not ``logics`` - right?

Also this one:

[#313 by kaalchakra

LOL, It`s ok, sattar sahib. I could rattle those screws in your head (and mine) a lot more by telling you, straight-faced and in complete sincerity, that I fully support the killing of innocent people.

But one can only have so much fun. ]


Did you really mean to say ``sincerity``? Because that changes everything.

#311 by kisan
Liar,

Do you really think we are idiots here?

Here is from your post…Check the ISBN

``The Life of Muhammad, A translation of Sirat Rasul Allah, ISBN 0 19 636033 1, Oxford University Press, 2004, Printed in Pakistan by Mas Printers, Karachi.
Published by Ameen Saiyid, Plot No.38m Sector 15, Korangi Ind Area. PO Box 8214m, Karachi - 74900, Pakistan.``

Check the ISBN here. You were clearly trying to hide the name of the author and translator here. Liar.....

The Life of Muhammad
A TRANSLATION OF IBNE ISHAQ’S SIRAT E RASUL ALLAH
A. Guillaume
Professor Guillaume’s translation of Ibne Ishaq’s Sirat is now reissued. The
translator has used Ibn Hisham’s abridgement and also included many additions
and variants found in the writings of early authors. This book thus presents
in English practically all that is known of the Prophet (PBUH). As the earliest
monument of Arabian prose literature, the Sirat remains a work of importance.
1997, 850 pages, 216x138mm, Hardback

ISBN-13: 978-0-19-636033-1, ISBN-10: 0-19-636033-1


Anyway. Can you post the web site where you got this book referenced above? Obviously, you have not read the book yourself.

Now for accuracy sake, let’s examine this: (I am going to shame you into accepting that you have no idea what you are posting here.)


“Now there was a great commotion among B.Khatma that day about the affair of Bint Marwan. She had five sons, and when `Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, `I have killed Bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don`t keep me waiting`. That was the first day that Islam became powerful among B.Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was `Umayr b.` Adiy who was called `the Reader`, and `Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam.”

Who the fk are B. Khatmas? Is there any record of them in the history?

From the above quote, the Umayr appears to be Omar bin Khitab (aka Omar Farooq) the second caliph after the death of Mohammed. Evidently, you or the fake reference you provided, have no idea about the real names of the persons involved.

Who the fk are Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit? And what relation they have with this reference in your artcile.

“Salim Ibn Umayr who was one of the great weepers and who had participated in Badr, said, ``I take a vow that I shall either kill Abu Afak or die before him. He waited for an opportunity until a hot night came, and Abu Afak slept in an open place. Salim Ibn Umayr knew it, so he placed the sword on his liver and pressed it till it reached his bed. The enemy of Allah screamed and the people who were his followers, rushed to him, took him to his house and interred him.

Later Asma Bint Marwan a woman who composed verses ridiculing the prophet for his barbarity came under the radar of Muhammad. He said ``Who will rid me of Marwan`s daughter?`` `Umayr b. `Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, ``You have helped God and His apostle, O `Umayr!`` When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, ``Two goats won`t butt their heads about her``, so `Umayr went back to his people.”


Basically you are a liar and the article is based on lies.

I hope chowk staff/Editors will account for this gaffe by removing this article from this web site.

Chalo, sattar sahib, if abusing me does you any good, I would gladly accept the epithets from a fellow non-Muslim. Catch you later.

kaal,

People disagree over interpretations; and that’s life. I fail to see your point.

It is futile of you to incessantly worry about what others think of Ahmadi-Muslims. Like I said, opinions carry little weight. And pardon my lack of interest in your belief regarding jihad. Your examination of Ahamdis too is of little interest to me. I think you need to get out more often ...

If you raise specific criticism against others, but ramble philosophically when pressed on the issue, you come across as a low IQ, fucking idiot. That is not to say you are deliberately misleading others ... but only that you come across like an idiot. That`s all ...

sattar

Hubris, unlimited. :)

Other than you, bade bhai, there are a couple of other people (all false Muslims, supposedly) who have read the Quran once or twice. They have given and give their own interpretations, references, and validation. And they don`t necessarily buy into your ahmedi beliefs. They don`t even call that Islam.

Not that your widespread rejection, and worse treatment from the readers of the Quran makes you wrong. You may be a newly minted Prophet. Just don`t think you are the only person who knows how to read.

Anyways, since I don`t belive in Jihad, I will let you continue with your Ahmedi (``real Islam``) variety of it. When I have time, I will be glad to examine why you are treated so badly - whether you are a new Prophet or a charlatan or just one ``true Muslim`` on the face of this earth. Best regards.

Re #323:

Islam has always been there … in Quran. I am not reforming Islam, but only giving my interpretation with references and validation. Nothing magical about it. You may take your despise for interpretationist games ... and shove it.

I do believe in fighting jihad; and it is foolish of you to suggest otherwise. It is sanctioned in Quran, with limitations and conditions. Ummah’s conflicts today are mainly political wars which have little to do with Islamic concept of jihad.

Believe whatever you want; it’s not my problem. However if you criticize others, and fail to back up your claims, you come across as a low-IQ goon.

Like I`ve said, either put up or shut up. Hollow philosophical ramblings do not cut it ...

khair, we might take this up at another time.

This is how I see matters stand.

In your view Islam (of the ummah) is a violent, intolerant, irrational - almost beastly - religion that kills innocent people. You want to `reform` this `unreal` Islam by offering up a very specific `real` Islam you have discovered.

I don`t believe that Islam (the unreal one, in your view) is as `bad` as you make it out to be. It has its own internal and external logics. It can indeed be a perfect religion IF you accept those logics. And I don`t think what you have on offer is half as good as you make it out to be, with all this talk of peace and unviersal brotherhood. Nor, of course, does it have any relation to Islam (the bad one, in your view).

Although I despise interpretationist games, I will play that game with you at a suitable time. Until then, please enjoy the wonderful company we are lucky to have on Chowk. Take care.

Re #321: Sahib, little knowledge may not be a good thing.

I have based my views on Quran and teachings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Which Islam are you talking about? Like I said, I am not interested in your opinions.

Even your master zeemax avoids discussion on Quran. And when pushed, he conceded that his criticism of Ahamdis is without much valid basis.

… you seem to have an axe to grind. Even as you try to appear neutral and philosophical …

May be this will clarify, for one last time. If I see Ahmedism as dramatically different from Islam, I will say so. I do not state that fact in order to attack you or defame Ahmedis or anyone else.

If that is your idea of hate, then I think love is overrated.

… kaal Mian … and no one is promoting Ahamdi faith. I fail to understand your paranoia. I have shunned hatred and fanaticism and presented peaceful aspects of Islam, as issue has come up. I am not sure why this bothers you. Perhaps you’d rather see violence escalate and spread. What gives?

kaal MiaN,

Your agenda is starting to get exposed. You and your master are promoting violence and fanaticism. My faith in Islam has nothing to do with your hateful Islam.

You criticized Ahmadis, but failed to back up your claims. When pressed further, you rambled philosophically, and later cited lack of interest in Ahmadis. And now you are back at attacking them.

… and hence my claim that you are an intellectually impotent, lame person. Keep kissing zeemax’ rear. And feel free to pull his pin when you are done …