Understanding the Death Fatwa on Taslima Nasreen

Be prepared to hear from Islamists here that Fatwas are only advisory in nature according to their self-referential Islam.

Kisan B,

They may behead u as well. ;-)

According to ibn Saad, Prophet Mohammad had a concubine. Can anyone provide any scholarly corroboration?

Dear writer

My stand for this issue is as follows.

# 1:- I truly believe that all of us should respect eachother`s faiths/religions/beliefs equally.
# 2:- I believe in freedom of expression with RESPONSIBILITY.
# 3:- There is a hell of a difference between being (CRITIC) and being(ABUSIVE).
#4:- Majority of people abuse their freedom of speech, they do not show responsibility and this whole world end up being chaotic and that`s the reason , majority of humans are @ war.
# 5:- I am not an orthodox Muslim, but, it doesn`t mean that I can insult those who wishes to be orthodox and vice versa( same way orthodox have no right to insult my stand)
# 6:- If, Taslima has had insulted Islam , then she is held responsible for her bigot actions.
# 7:- If, we being liberal thinks that orthodox have illogical or skewed way of thinking or illogical POVs, same way orthodox think about our POVs as skewed/illogical.
# 8:- There is absolutely NO set standards of LOGIC.
# 9:- May be someone`s logic is illogic for us and vice versa.
# 10:- There is no solid grounds for anyone to start hurling insults for eachother`s beliefs.
# 11:- What makes Taslima or even me( being unorthodox) more logical? nothing.
# 12:- What right do anyone has to insult our beliefs/faiths? No right
# 13:- Neither orthodox, nor unorthodox have any right to manipulate eachothers views.

Thanks

Besides, even if someone is derogatory about someone`s religion..........I will NOT support any death fatwa for such irresponsible and illogical act..........................

Take care

#3 by neembu on April 15, 2007 4:03pm PT


According to ibn Saad, Prophet Mohammad had a concubine.


concubine

a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, esp. one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.

Uh-oh...the islamofascists are going to go bonkers...you just drew the danish cartoons....

``I feel that I belong here. There is not much of a difference in cultures. I have applied for Indian citizenship and am not sure whether I will get it,`` she said. — PTI

(http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/16/stories/2007041601771300.htm)

Tasleema, we`d like to trade the President of AIMPLB in ur favour. We`d petition the Prez of India if it`s possible to exchange him for u.

Similary We`d like to send the Pakistani Advani in favour of any woman who`s as boradminded as u, Tasleema.

#4 by Zeena on April 15, 2007 5:30pm PT

Who is the arbiter of what`s responsible and what`s not...This BS about responsibility is just the way the practitioners of the religion of peace want to abridge free speech by demanding people be respectful to some 7th century arab camel jockey...

I thank Chowk staff for posting my essay even though it is almost 4 weeks after it was written and the issue has become a little `old news`.

Somehow all of the hyperlinks that are there in the original (18) aren`t there in this version. I don`t know how to post hyperlinks in the interacts also.

Another place where the article is available with all hyperlinks is:

http://islam-watch.org/others/Death_Fatwa_Taslima.htm

Re: Zeenas contortions that : # 6:- If, Taslima has had insulted Islam , then she is held responsible for her bigot actions.

No, people don`t get beheaded for insulting peoples beliefs in this day and age as a religious right. Such mentality believing in the right to kill those insulting our cherished dogmas has no place in modern world.

K.

#4

# 7:- If, we being liberal thinks that orthodox have illogical or skewed way of thinking or illogical POVs, same way orthodox think about our POVs as skewed/illogical.

---

Dear Zeena, you and liberal? kiya logoN ko ullo samajh rakha hai tu? beTi we all have been reading your uncondiitonal support fo the burqa clads for the last 2 weeks. you have been spending half of your days writing those long posts and your orgasmic enthusiasm for the ``impending`` establishment of khalifa in Islamabad is not hidden from anyone.

now go kisi aur ko budhu banai by pretendng to be a liberal. ``we liberals``....haha what a joke.

#10 dullabhatti sahib

So, you are IMPOSING your fatwa upon me that I am NOT liberal.............

I am not answerable to you or anyone here...........but, let me try last time with my sincere efforts to make you understand my views...........

If, you are sincere in your views, you will also try to understand my views on religion.

And, I hope you`ll read the following post with all the honesty of your heart.

But, after reading this post, if, you will still insist upon falsely accusing me for nothing, then you have your own bigot views and you have your own personal beef with me. I do not recall being personal with you.

Any way, my stand for Taslima`s issue is same as I posted in #5 and # 4..........I do not feel to repeat this all over again................I do not need your approval or disapproval(FATWA) against me.................

I will never ask for beheading Taslima , even if that person insults my religious beliefs........

Yes, I am proud that I am liberal Muslim and Pakistani.........No doubt about it.

I am also proud that I am not morally corrupt and that was the main stand for HF issue..........I did not take it as religious issue or mullah issue...........No matter how much you skew it.......

Please, read this lengthy post carefully with open mind..............
Again, to you your belief and to me, mine........................

After reading this post if you will still repeat the same thing over and over again then you are NOT sincere , you are biased like majority of chowkies here who just settle down their personal scores here on this web site......................

anyway,I again request you to read this post with open mind and heart. Thanks

I never wished to see Pakistan as some sort of religious state..............My stand is totally different based on my own views and values that I am raised with. And I am quite sure, these people who have had been protesting agree with the same values as any average Pakistani is raised with and I am also sure, you`re also holding the same basic values.


[[[#1562 by Zeena on April 13, 2007 8:00pm PT
#1547 by hasanmahmood sahib
With all due respect, Let me once more try to clear my POV on this issue and I will honestly answer all your questions one by one.

I am not just passing the time, trust me, If, I would have been passing this time, I would have been shopping or watching movies. But, instead I am here writting to you with all the honesty and fairness of my heart.

I strongly hope that you will read and will try to understand my POV with broad mind, enlightened moderation and without being fascist. I appreciate that you never ever tried to harass me, never ever abused me, always tried to interact with me with respect and with your dignity and trust me that is the only reason I am taking your interact seriously and is trying to respond to you with equal respect.

First of all, I am extremely disappointed by the way, my opponents have ganged up against me, including Males and ONE Female on this board and tried their best to harass me, abuse me , call me names and did everything under the sun to make me change my POV particularly on this very issue.

Let me ask you, Suppose right now I say, alright (HF girls are wrong, they are the worst humans on this earth) and all of you who abused me on this board just for one SIN that I supported a good act by HF girls only on this web site( are right and are very fine humans), I just gave my opinion. So, they gave me punishment for speaking up my independent MIND, so, they slashed me with their tongue blades just for standing up for my freedom of expression..................yes, they are very fine humans..........

So, what example did they set for me to look up to? What exemplary behavior they set for me to follow their POV`s? What act of decency did they establish here on this board that I should start worshipping them instead?
This is just an anon web site, where different interactors are supposed to come with their unflinching idealism and give their own POV`s. Without getting personal.

If, you re read all my posts and compare them to the ones who abused me, personally attacked me, collected all kinds of personal informations about me and tried their best to harass me.

I could have done the worst , but, all I did I kept on repeating my POV and did not surrender. And they made it their life to come to this board and harass me more.They made it their life and death type of a situation to abuse me and to personally attack me without even understanding my POV............

Only, you are the first and probably last interactor who took his precious time and asked me all these questions with the honesty of your heart. I smelled the fairness in this post of your`s and that is the main reason, I am answering your queries............You did not try to personally attack me, you did not collect all kinds of information about me to attack me out of some unknown personal REVENGE.........GOD(ALMIGHTY) KNOWS why? I am speechless on few ineractors here, they crossed all their limits of decency and they forgot that this is just a web site................We are perfect strangers for eachother.......Nothing personal..........But, I guess this is another lesson that I learned from this web site........................for my future plans and projects............

Well, even then I will be calm, composed and collected. Only my God(Almighty) is my witness. If I am true or NOT.

Now, let me answer your questions one by one............

#1:{{You ask me whether I want an Islamic state to not. Of course I do. But a true Islamic state, where nobody has a fear of living according to his/her own beliefs. I don`t want a Pakistan where people like Zeemax and their convoluted theories are in majority. I don`t want a Pakistan where these mullahs can take the law into their own hands without any fear of reprisals. I don`t want a Pakistan where you cannot say anything wrong about a dari-walla for the fear of prosecution. I don`t want a Pakistan where Mullahs tell me what and what Not to do. I want a Pakistan where people learn to live with each other. I do care about your POV not because I want to change it but because I do think of you as an intelligent person.]]]

Answer:- hasanmahmood sahib

Let me be honest with you here. I am absolutely NOT asking you to have an Islamic state.Show me a single post by me, where did I ask you to have an Islamic state? Never. of course I do not wish to see Pakistan as Islamic state. I wish to see Pakistan as a secular country, where each and every religious belief is equally respected , where people are free to practice their moral beliefs without any fear of extremism or fanaticism or Mullahism or dictatorship of any kind, where no one can play power or God, where all citizens (poor or rich) regardless of their status are treated with equal respect and dignity.Where , whether you are Mullah or NOT Mullah, no one should be above law.

And same goes for the ones who call themselves Liberals, but, show extreme intolerance (Like this board is an alive example of such behavior) , where those of my opponents showed extreme hate for me . Why? Just B/c I supported HF girls stand for the right action. I did not do any gaali gaaloch for them. ONE Female even gathered all my personal information and personally attacked me, and harassed me, while other abused me with the vilest abuse possible.

I am never an extremist, rather trust me these pseudoMullahs ( in my real life ) call me (kafir), which I always laugh..............But, I know what I am and what I am not.

I do not need anyone`s approval or disapproval. And frankly I am proud of what I am with all my ideology and with all my good deeds that I have had been doing and will still do in future.Nothing can stop me for loving poor oppressed Pakistanis and nothing can stop me for standing up for the right actions...........Period.

#2:- [[As for as Zeemax is....trust me, we do not know each other, we are completely strangers for each other. Sometimes , we agree and sometimes we disagree. But, one thing is for sure, Zeemax has never insulted me even when I have disagreed with him on other issues.

Zeemax is an independent, matured, married with kids and professional interactor with extra energies. Trust me I do not have any kind of influence upon him and same way Zeemax doesn`t have any kind of influence upon my mind.

If, we agree on this issue, It doesn`t mean anything. Still, we both are independent individuals , free thinkers and I respect him and all of you who did not abuse me for their patience with me.

I do not come on chowk to make any kind of PR or any kind of gangs or groupies or friends. I have sufficient friends and NO enemy in my real life. I am happily married professional woman with great many projects accomplished and so much more ahead to be accomplished.

I love Chowk and may be like everyone else I am now little addicted to this web site...........LOL.........

# 3:-[[[He probably does not know that Muslims are hated and looked down upon in the whole world because of what they have become. he probably loves everyone who believes in everything these mullahs tell them without ever reading Koran. he probably encourages people NOT to read Koran but to listen to these mullahs]]]

Answer:-Again I am absolutely NOT answerable on behalf of Zeemax for all his opinions and ideologies. I am a kind of person , you can call a real open minded and free thinker, I hate to impose my POV`s on others. If, you disagree with me, It does not mean you are my enemy. If I agree with you, again It does not mean I am your friend. This is not a high school class room,{{ where your friends are my friends and your enemies are my enemies based on our agreements and disagreements on some issues.}}.

If, Zeemax loves Mullahs, let him be. If , Zeemax hates Mullahs , let him be. That doesn`t affect my mental and Physical health and I won`t hold grudges against some people based on their own individual ideology either. May be on next board, you and I will be in complete agreement on some issue. Does it mean we will be friends or enemies? NO, not all. We are matured nation and are proud to be Pakistanis and Muslims, of course.

If, you ask me , [[[that I do not know that Muslims are hated and looked down upon in the whole world}}
My answer for this for me( again I am not talking on behalf of Zeemax). is.....
I do not see any hate for Muslims among average Americans now, they do not care at all. They only care, if, they are being affected by the presence of Muslims. To be honest , they do not even care, if, Muslim women wear Burqa or no burqa at all. These are just our fears.

The point is how we present ourselves , while living abroad? I never have had any problem regarding that very matter. And why should I be guilty for the crime or sin that I haven`t done? I am as innocent as any other American citizen is and I am as innocent as any other Pakistani citizen could be. I am absolutely NOT answerable to those who are biased and bigots and who are generalizing all the Muslims based on racial or religious profiling. B/c I am NOT Mullah, I am NOT jihadi and I am absolutely NOT a Taliban, either.

# 5:-[[he probably loves everyone who believes in everything these mullahs tell them without ever reading Koran. he probably encourages people NOT to read Koran but to listen to these mullahs]]]

Again, I am not answerable to what Zeemax believes? And trust me, again the way I am, I will never get offended , if, he loves Mullahs or their ways. B/c this is his life, not mine. He is a free man to think and to do what is right for his mind. Who am I to brainwash HIM to change his POV to suit my mind?

Yes, If, you ask me the same question , for myself. My answer is...........NO I do not love Mullahs and their ways. I know their kind of Islam is just mis interpretation of Quran to suit their minds. I always call them Pseudos. But, I do not impose my ideology upon them either. I am comfortable with Mullahism, as long as they do not impose their kind of Islam upon me. As long as I am not being affected.

I am not in secured by their presence. Plus, they have very little role to play in the political arena of Pakistan. Majority of Politicians are NOT Mullahs.

I read Quran almost daily and then interpret with my own mind and trust me I trust my interpretations more than anyone else. Mullahs are absolutely NOT the owner of Islam. Islam is not their commodity. It is a true belief just like any other belief.

I always respect all beliefs equally, I never hurl abuses to other religions. B/c, I strongly believe , if, you wish them to respect your belief, then you got to respect their`s and vice versa. But, here on this web site.
Even though I do not abuse other`s beliefs and nationalities, majority of interactors hurl tons of unnecessary abuses for Islam and for Pakistan. That is unacceptable. Even then I do not cross my limits and do not lower myself to their level.

I do not blindly trust Mullahs............I trust myself and my Quranic interpretations more than anyone else and also I trust in valid Hadiths( I totally reject Invalid hadiths).

But, one thing is for sure, I stand up for the right action ..............no matter where it is coming from.

Like here on this board, I strongly believe Hafsa Brave clads did the right action( I do not need to repeat my thoughts on this stand all over again) If, you wish you can read my posts.

I believe , if, corrupt Police failed to give the basic right of living with peace of mind in their homes, the people have every right to stand up against their violation of rights. I strongly believe, this matter is the matter of social morality............If, you do not wish to live right next door to a brothel and drug trafficking and all the pornography, you have every right to raise your voice, if, your state failed to provide you the basic right to live in a decent neighborhood of your own choice.

Let me give you an example..............In America, when we move to a new neighborhood , what is the first thing of concern that we ask from our seller or home owner?

We always ask, if, this is a decent neighborhood? If, this is the right neighborhood to raise our kids? If, this is the crime free, drug free, prostitution free, brothel free neighborhood? If, this is a SAFE neighborhood to live with your peace of mind?

And we investigate before moving in............B/c we believe we have every right to live with our own values, with our own cultural mannerism, with our own preferences........................with our own choices.

And I believe , every decent and moral society( No matter which religion, no matter which country) set certain rules of ethics, set certain rules of dignity and certain set moral standards to abide by.

I lived in Pakistan, London, Canada, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, France and Bermuda and Dubai...............I did not see any difference in this code of conduct, which is universally acceptable. And with which I am raised.

If, Madam Shamim ( with all her illegal activities) wanted to perform such sorts of activities, my only stand was/is and will be she better would have moved to the area where she is accepted with all her ganged illegal activities...................................Line has to be drawn somewhere and there is absolutely NO excuse for Madam Shamim to perform her illegal and harassing activities in that particular family neighborhood. Period.

And, trust me there is much corruption at each and every level in Pakistan, which needs to be addressed. And, I am sure this is the wake up call and just the beginning of a new era.........

Isn`t it shame that Pakistan is considered a # 1 corrupt country in this world? Yes, I do feel shame........And I am sincere in my part to make this country as much corruption free as possible. I wish to see Pakistan as much progressed as possible. Trust me, I do............

Even, if, some jeans clads would have done this action( like Hafsa sisters), I would have appreciated them the same way.

Even, if, some Pakistani men( No matter beard or no beard), jeans or shalwaar Kameez, I would have supported their stand.


# 6:-[[[You, however have disagreed with him in the past on many occasions, so what I don`t understand is why you think that Jamai Hafzaa girls are so brave to stand up against the law and order. lets say Musharaf was not in power. Would you say the same thing if there was democracy in the country? ]]]

Answer:- Again, I already answered this question above about my disagreement with Zeemax.

Again, I will never ever recommend to take law and order in their hands at first place. I am very peaceful citizen myself.

But, if, Law and order failed to protect your rights, if, law and order are themselves corrupted your rights, if, law and order have lost their true face and values, if, there is very selective and biased law and order..........means if, law and order is only for a particular people and spare the rest of the people, if, law and order are weak............

Then If, I feel the need to take law in my hands , I will stand up for my self defense. No doubt about it.
why law and order are made? for the protection of people rights....If, they start violating their rights instead, then as a respectable citizen, I have every right to stand up for my basic right.............I believe , if, I will not stand up, then I am equally violating the law which is made for my protection.

If, I am being harassed in my own home , my first response will be to call Police. My second response will be AGAIN to call Police(depending upon the emergency of my need). But, in spite of my variable calls, if, Police won`t show up or ignore my requests..............then I will NOT surrender in front of harasser to let him/her do whatever he/she wishes to do. I will then play the role of Police myself. I will then become SELF POLICE, just to defend myself. Period.

# 7:-[[lets say Musharaf was not in power. Would you say the same thing if there was democracy in the country? ]]]

Answer:- Trust me, there is no question of democracy here. Suppose, there is NO Musharaf here and there is Imran Khan or BB or Nawaz Sharif as heads of state................I would have supported Hafsa brave clads the same way.

No matter what Governance it is( democracy or dictatorship), I would have done exactly the same thing.

I am not scared of burqa or Mullahs, they CAN not affect my ways of Life...........if, we live in Pakistan or In USA or anywhere in the world. I know what My stand is for...........It is not for mullahs establishment, it has got nothing to do with burqa.............this is the right action that was taken when everything else failed.

# 8:-[[[Would you say the same thing about thee hooligans who want to close down the music stores or burn the cinema houses down. When do you think it should stop?]]]

Answer:- Just go back and read all my posts..............Tell me one post where did I support Mullahs for Lal Masjid`s Incident? Show me where did I support their demands for closing down the music stores or burn film theaters(cinema houses)?

Again, I believe that Lal Masjid`s incident and other stuff is just that some pseudo Mullahs took advantage of this whole situation and got all nerved up for their own selfish agendas.

Yes, I will demand closing down of music stores, if, their NOISES disrupt my daily routine. If, their NOISES disturb my sleep and the sleeps of my neighborhood............if, I am studying and their noises are disturbing my studies..................Then I will inform the higher authorities or will try to discuss it out with the owners of Music stores about my problems, if, my family is sick........If, this can be settled down in a very nice and peaceful way, I will not take any action myself.

I do not have any problem with selling CDs or DVDs..........

Again, let me clear one more thing.........I think even Loud speakers in Mosques should be banned, if, they do disturb your sleep and your studies and your daily routine.

Back in the past, there were NO loud speakers in the mosques..........even then people used to pray with more enthusiasm...............

We do not need loud speakers at all for any purposes. I do not even like loud music in Pakistani transport as well...............

It has got nothing to do with religion..................

At the end...........hasanmahmood sahib

To you , your belief and to me my own................

Regards ]]]]]

Zeena, ignore these people. They will never get your point of view. They don`t understand that some religions and Prophets simply have to be respected.

#12 kaalchakra jii

Thanks for your positive feedback.

#12 kaalchakra jii

Thanks for your positive feedback.

---

hahahhaha Kala ji is probably getting neela peela after having a 10 min long laugh:)

Zeena beTi, you seriously think I will read your whole 10 pg long post after reading your response to kala below? you are over extending the empire of your intellect. Please stop before you end up disintegrated in a small room in psychiatric ward of your hospital.

if above is a fatwa...then consider it one of those advisory kind. of one:-)..even though I am not your white doctor colleage:-)

Besides death fatwa on Taslima will not do Islam any good, either.
The best bet for Muslims is to completely ignore Taslima`s derogatory remarks.

By announcing fatwa for this woman will only give her more publicity and that`s exactly what she wants....................just think about it.

#14 dullabhatti sahib

sadly, you are constantly cyberharrassing me on front page.

Will you please be kind enough to stop cyberharrassing me?
If, you have your own relevant views on this Taslima`s topic @ hand, go ahead, post them here.

It serves no purpose to harrass me when the fact of the matter is I am NOT the topic of this article.

Chwok staff
Kindly take the notice of dullabhatti`s cyberharrassment for me...........and please, remind this interactor that I am not the topic of this article.

And also to remind this intractor to stick to the actual topic. Thanks