Understanding the Death Fatwa on Taslima Nasreen

Be prepared to hear from Islamists here that Fatwas are only advisory in nature according to their self-referential Islam.

Kisan B,

They may behead u as well. ;-)

According to ibn Saad, Prophet Mohammad had a concubine. Can anyone provide any scholarly corroboration?

Dear writer

My stand for this issue is as follows.

# 1:- I truly believe that all of us should respect eachother`s faiths/religions/beliefs equally.
# 2:- I believe in freedom of expression with RESPONSIBILITY.
# 3:- There is a hell of a difference between being (CRITIC) and being(ABUSIVE).
#4:- Majority of people abuse their freedom of speech, they do not show responsibility and this whole world end up being chaotic and that`s the reason , majority of humans are @ war.
# 5:- I am not an orthodox Muslim, but, it doesn`t mean that I can insult those who wishes to be orthodox and vice versa( same way orthodox have no right to insult my stand)
# 6:- If, Taslima has had insulted Islam , then she is held responsible for her bigot actions.
# 7:- If, we being liberal thinks that orthodox have illogical or skewed way of thinking or illogical POVs, same way orthodox think about our POVs as skewed/illogical.
# 8:- There is absolutely NO set standards of LOGIC.
# 9:- May be someone`s logic is illogic for us and vice versa.
# 10:- There is no solid grounds for anyone to start hurling insults for eachother`s beliefs.
# 11:- What makes Taslima or even me( being unorthodox) more logical? nothing.
# 12:- What right do anyone has to insult our beliefs/faiths? No right
# 13:- Neither orthodox, nor unorthodox have any right to manipulate eachothers views.

Thanks

Besides, even if someone is derogatory about someone`s religion..........I will NOT support any death fatwa for such irresponsible and illogical act..........................

Take care

#3 by neembu on April 15, 2007 4:03pm PT


According to ibn Saad, Prophet Mohammad had a concubine.


concubine

a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, esp. one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.

Uh-oh...the islamofascists are going to go bonkers...you just drew the danish cartoons....

``I feel that I belong here. There is not much of a difference in cultures. I have applied for Indian citizenship and am not sure whether I will get it,`` she said. — PTI

(http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/16/stories/2007041601771300.htm)

Tasleema, we`d like to trade the President of AIMPLB in ur favour. We`d petition the Prez of India if it`s possible to exchange him for u.

Similary We`d like to send the Pakistani Advani in favour of any woman who`s as boradminded as u, Tasleema.

#4 by Zeena on April 15, 2007 5:30pm PT

Who is the arbiter of what`s responsible and what`s not...This BS about responsibility is just the way the practitioners of the religion of peace want to abridge free speech by demanding people be respectful to some 7th century arab camel jockey...

I thank Chowk staff for posting my essay even though it is almost 4 weeks after it was written and the issue has become a little `old news`.

Somehow all of the hyperlinks that are there in the original (18) aren`t there in this version. I don`t know how to post hyperlinks in the interacts also.

Another place where the article is available with all hyperlinks is:

http://islam-watch.org/others/Death_Fatwa_Taslima.htm

Re: Zeenas contortions that : # 6:- If, Taslima has had insulted Islam , then she is held responsible for her bigot actions.

No, people don`t get beheaded for insulting peoples beliefs in this day and age as a religious right. Such mentality believing in the right to kill those insulting our cherished dogmas has no place in modern world.

K.

#4

# 7:- If, we being liberal thinks that orthodox have illogical or skewed way of thinking or illogical POVs, same way orthodox think about our POVs as skewed/illogical.

---

Dear Zeena, you and liberal? kiya logoN ko ullo samajh rakha hai tu? beTi we all have been reading your uncondiitonal support fo the burqa clads for the last 2 weeks. you have been spending half of your days writing those long posts and your orgasmic enthusiasm for the ``impending`` establishment of khalifa in Islamabad is not hidden from anyone.

now go kisi aur ko budhu banai by pretendng to be a liberal. ``we liberals``....haha what a joke.

#10 dullabhatti sahib

So, you are IMPOSING your fatwa upon me that I am NOT liberal.............

I am not answerable to you or anyone here...........but, let me try last time with my sincere efforts to make you understand my views...........

If, you are sincere in your views, you will also try to understand my views on religion.

And, I hope you`ll read the following post with all the honesty of your heart.

But, after reading this post, if, you will still insist upon falsely accusing me for nothing, then you have your own bigot views and you have your own personal beef with me. I do not recall being personal with you.

Any way, my stand for Taslima`s issue is same as I posted in #5 and # 4..........I do not feel to repeat this all over again................I do not need your approval or disapproval(FATWA) against me.................

I will never ask for beheading Taslima , even if that person insults my religious beliefs........

Yes, I am proud that I am liberal Muslim and Pakistani.........No doubt about it.

I am also proud that I am not morally corrupt and that was the main stand for HF issue..........I did not take it as religious issue or mullah issue...........No matter how much you skew it.......

Please, read this lengthy post carefully with open mind..............
Again, to you your belief and to me, mine........................

After reading this post if you will still repeat the same thing over and over again then you are NOT sincere , you are biased like majority of chowkies here who just settle down their personal scores here on this web site......................

anyway,I again request you to read this post with open mind and heart. Thanks

I never wished to see Pakistan as some sort of religious state..............My stand is totally different based on my own views and values that I am raised with. And I am quite sure, these people who have had been protesting agree with the same values as any average Pakistani is raised with and I am also sure, you`re also holding the same basic values.


[[[#1562 by Zeena on April 13, 2007 8:00pm PT
#1547 by hasanmahmood sahib
With all due respect, Let me once more try to clear my POV on this issue and I will honestly answer all your questions one by one.

I am not just passing the time, trust me, If, I would have been passing this time, I would have been shopping or watching movies. But, instead I am here writting to you with all the honesty and fairness of my heart.

I strongly hope that you will read and will try to understand my POV with broad mind, enlightened moderation and without being fascist. I appreciate that you never ever tried to harass me, never ever abused me, always tried to interact with me with respect and with your dignity and trust me that is the only reason I am taking your interact seriously and is trying to respond to you with equal respect.

First of all, I am extremely disappointed by the way, my opponents have ganged up against me, including Males and ONE Female on this board and tried their best to harass me, abuse me , call me names and did everything under the sun to make me change my POV particularly on this very issue.

Let me ask you, Suppose right now I say, alright (HF girls are wrong, they are the worst humans on this earth) and all of you who abused me on this board just for one SIN that I supported a good act by HF girls only on this web site( are right and are very fine humans), I just gave my opinion. So, they gave me punishment for speaking up my independent MIND, so, they slashed me with their tongue blades just for standing up for my freedom of expression..................yes, they are very fine humans..........

So, what example did they set for me to look up to? What exemplary behavior they set for me to follow their POV`s? What act of decency did they establish here on this board that I should start worshipping them instead?
This is just an anon web site, where different interactors are supposed to come with their unflinching idealism and give their own POV`s. Without getting personal.

If, you re read all my posts and compare them to the ones who abused me, personally attacked me, collected all kinds of personal informations about me and tried their best to harass me.

I could have done the worst , but, all I did I kept on repeating my POV and did not surrender. And they made it their life to come to this board and harass me more.They made it their life and death type of a situation to abuse me and to personally attack me without even understanding my POV............

Only, you are the first and probably last interactor who took his precious time and asked me all these questions with the honesty of your heart. I smelled the fairness in this post of your`s and that is the main reason, I am answering your queries............You did not try to personally attack me, you did not collect all kinds of information about me to attack me out of some unknown personal REVENGE.........GOD(ALMIGHTY) KNOWS why? I am speechless on few ineractors here, they crossed all their limits of decency and they forgot that this is just a web site................We are perfect strangers for eachother.......Nothing personal..........But, I guess this is another lesson that I learned from this web site........................for my future plans and projects............

Well, even then I will be calm, composed and collected. Only my God(Almighty) is my witness. If I am true or NOT.

Now, let me answer your questions one by one............

#1:{{You ask me whether I want an Islamic state to not. Of course I do. But a true Islamic state, where nobody has a fear of living according to his/her own beliefs. I don`t want a Pakistan where people like Zeemax and their convoluted theories are in majority. I don`t want a Pakistan where these mullahs can take the law into their own hands without any fear of reprisals. I don`t want a Pakistan where you cannot say anything wrong about a dari-walla for the fear of prosecution. I don`t want a Pakistan where Mullahs tell me what and what Not to do. I want a Pakistan where people learn to live with each other. I do care about your POV not because I want to change it but because I do think of you as an intelligent person.]]]

Answer:- hasanmahmood sahib

Let me be honest with you here. I am absolutely NOT asking you to have an Islamic state.Show me a single post by me, where did I ask you to have an Islamic state? Never. of course I do not wish to see Pakistan as Islamic state. I wish to see Pakistan as a secular country, where each and every religious belief is equally respected , where people are free to practice their moral beliefs without any fear of extremism or fanaticism or Mullahism or dictatorship of any kind, where no one can play power or God, where all citizens (poor or rich) regardless of their status are treated with equal respect and dignity.Where , whether you are Mullah or NOT Mullah, no one should be above law.

And same goes for the ones who call themselves Liberals, but, show extreme intolerance (Like this board is an alive example of such behavior) , where those of my opponents showed extreme hate for me . Why? Just B/c I supported HF girls stand for the right action. I did not do any gaali gaaloch for them. ONE Female even gathered all my personal information and personally attacked me, and harassed me, while other abused me with the vilest abuse possible.

I am never an extremist, rather trust me these pseudoMullahs ( in my real life ) call me (kafir), which I always laugh..............But, I know what I am and what I am not.

I do not need anyone`s approval or disapproval. And frankly I am proud of what I am with all my ideology and with all my good deeds that I have had been doing and will still do in future.Nothing can stop me for loving poor oppressed Pakistanis and nothing can stop me for standing up for the right actions...........Period.

#2:- [[As for as Zeemax is....trust me, we do not know each other, we are completely strangers for each other. Sometimes , we agree and sometimes we disagree. But, one thing is for sure, Zeemax has never insulted me even when I have disagreed with him on other issues.

Zeemax is an independent, matured, married with kids and professional interactor with extra energies. Trust me I do not have any kind of influence upon him and same way Zeemax doesn`t have any kind of influence upon my mind.

If, we agree on this issue, It doesn`t mean anything. Still, we both are independent individuals , free thinkers and I respect him and all of you who did not abuse me for their patience with me.

I do not come on chowk to make any kind of PR or any kind of gangs or groupies or friends. I have sufficient friends and NO enemy in my real life. I am happily married professional woman with great many projects accomplished and so much more ahead to be accomplished.

I love Chowk and may be like everyone else I am now little addicted to this web site...........LOL.........

# 3:-[[[He probably does not know that Muslims are hated and looked down upon in the whole world because of what they have become. he probably loves everyone who believes in everything these mullahs tell them without ever reading Koran. he probably encourages people NOT to read Koran but to listen to these mullahs]]]

Answer:-Again I am absolutely NOT answerable on behalf of Zeemax for all his opinions and ideologies. I am a kind of person , you can call a real open minded and free thinker, I hate to impose my POV`s on others. If, you disagree with me, It does not mean you are my enemy. If I agree with you, again It does not mean I am your friend. This is not a high school class room,{{ where your friends are my friends and your enemies are my enemies based on our agreements and disagreements on some issues.}}.

If, Zeemax loves Mullahs, let him be. If , Zeemax hates Mullahs , let him be. That doesn`t affect my mental and Physical health and I won`t hold grudges against some people based on their own individual ideology either. May be on next board, you and I will be in complete agreement on some issue. Does it mean we will be friends or enemies? NO, not all. We are matured nation and are proud to be Pakistanis and Muslims, of course.

If, you ask me , [[[that I do not know that Muslims are hated and looked down upon in the whole world}}
My answer for this for me( again I am not talking on behalf of Zeemax). is.....
I do not see any hate for Muslims among average Americans now, they do not care at all. They only care, if, they are being affected by the presence of Muslims. To be honest , they do not even care, if, Muslim women wear Burqa or no burqa at all. These are just our fears.

The point is how we present ourselves , while living abroad? I never have had any problem regarding that very matter. And why should I be guilty for the crime or sin that I haven`t done? I am as innocent as any other American citizen is and I am as innocent as any other Pakistani citizen could be. I am absolutely NOT answerable to those who are biased and bigots and who are generalizing all the Muslims based on racial or religious profiling. B/c I am NOT Mullah, I am NOT jihadi and I am absolutely NOT a Taliban, either.

# 5:-[[he probably loves everyone who believes in everything these mullahs tell them without ever reading Koran. he probably encourages people NOT to read Koran but to listen to these mullahs]]]

Again, I am not answerable to what Zeemax believes? And trust me, again the way I am, I will never get offended , if, he loves Mullahs or their ways. B/c this is his life, not mine. He is a free man to think and to do what is right for his mind. Who am I to brainwash HIM to change his POV to suit my mind?

Yes, If, you ask me the same question , for myself. My answer is...........NO I do not love Mullahs and their ways. I know their kind of Islam is just mis interpretation of Quran to suit their minds. I always call them Pseudos. But, I do not impose my ideology upon them either. I am comfortable with Mullahism, as long as they do not impose their kind of Islam upon me. As long as I am not being affected.

I am not in secured by their presence. Plus, they have very little role to play in the political arena of Pakistan. Majority of Politicians are NOT Mullahs.

I read Quran almost daily and then interpret with my own mind and trust me I trust my interpretations more than anyone else. Mullahs are absolutely NOT the owner of Islam. Islam is not their commodity. It is a true belief just like any other belief.

I always respect all beliefs equally, I never hurl abuses to other religions. B/c, I strongly believe , if, you wish them to respect your belief, then you got to respect their`s and vice versa. But, here on this web site.
Even though I do not abuse other`s beliefs and nationalities, majority of interactors hurl tons of unnecessary abuses for Islam and for Pakistan. That is unacceptable. Even then I do not cross my limits and do not lower myself to their level.

I do not blindly trust Mullahs............I trust myself and my Quranic interpretations more than anyone else and also I trust in valid Hadiths( I totally reject Invalid hadiths).

But, one thing is for sure, I stand up for the right action ..............no matter where it is coming from.

Like here on this board, I strongly believe Hafsa Brave clads did the right action( I do not need to repeat my thoughts on this stand all over again) If, you wish you can read my posts.

I believe , if, corrupt Police failed to give the basic right of living with peace of mind in their homes, the people have every right to stand up against their violation of rights. I strongly believe, this matter is the matter of social morality............If, you do not wish to live right next door to a brothel and drug trafficking and all the pornography, you have every right to raise your voice, if, your state failed to provide you the basic right to live in a decent neighborhood of your own choice.

Let me give you an example..............In America, when we move to a new neighborhood , what is the first thing of concern that we ask from our seller or home owner?

We always ask, if, this is a decent neighborhood? If, this is the right neighborhood to raise our kids? If, this is the crime free, drug free, prostitution free, brothel free neighborhood? If, this is a SAFE neighborhood to live with your peace of mind?

And we investigate before moving in............B/c we believe we have every right to live with our own values, with our own cultural mannerism, with our own preferences........................with our own choices.

And I believe , every decent and moral society( No matter which religion, no matter which country) set certain rules of ethics, set certain rules of dignity and certain set moral standards to abide by.

I lived in Pakistan, London, Canada, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, France and Bermuda and Dubai...............I did not see any difference in this code of conduct, which is universally acceptable. And with which I am raised.

If, Madam Shamim ( with all her illegal activities) wanted to perform such sorts of activities, my only stand was/is and will be she better would have moved to the area where she is accepted with all her ganged illegal activities...................................Line has to be drawn somewhere and there is absolutely NO excuse for Madam Shamim to perform her illegal and harassing activities in that particular family neighborhood. Period.

And, trust me there is much corruption at each and every level in Pakistan, which needs to be addressed. And, I am sure this is the wake up call and just the beginning of a new era.........

Isn`t it shame that Pakistan is considered a # 1 corrupt country in this world? Yes, I do feel shame........And I am sincere in my part to make this country as much corruption free as possible. I wish to see Pakistan as much progressed as possible. Trust me, I do............

Even, if, some jeans clads would have done this action( like Hafsa sisters), I would have appreciated them the same way.

Even, if, some Pakistani men( No matter beard or no beard), jeans or shalwaar Kameez, I would have supported their stand.


# 6:-[[[You, however have disagreed with him in the past on many occasions, so what I don`t understand is why you think that Jamai Hafzaa girls are so brave to stand up against the law and order. lets say Musharaf was not in power. Would you say the same thing if there was democracy in the country? ]]]

Answer:- Again, I already answered this question above about my disagreement with Zeemax.

Again, I will never ever recommend to take law and order in their hands at first place. I am very peaceful citizen myself.

But, if, Law and order failed to protect your rights, if, law and order are themselves corrupted your rights, if, law and order have lost their true face and values, if, there is very selective and biased law and order..........means if, law and order is only for a particular people and spare the rest of the people, if, law and order are weak............

Then If, I feel the need to take law in my hands , I will stand up for my self defense. No doubt about it.
why law and order are made? for the protection of people rights....If, they start violating their rights instead, then as a respectable citizen, I have every right to stand up for my basic right.............I believe , if, I will not stand up, then I am equally violating the law which is made for my protection.

If, I am being harassed in my own home , my first response will be to call Police. My second response will be AGAIN to call Police(depending upon the emergency of my need). But, in spite of my variable calls, if, Police won`t show up or ignore my requests..............then I will NOT surrender in front of harasser to let him/her do whatever he/she wishes to do. I will then play the role of Police myself. I will then become SELF POLICE, just to defend myself. Period.

# 7:-[[lets say Musharaf was not in power. Would you say the same thing if there was democracy in the country? ]]]

Answer:- Trust me, there is no question of democracy here. Suppose, there is NO Musharaf here and there is Imran Khan or BB or Nawaz Sharif as heads of state................I would have supported Hafsa brave clads the same way.

No matter what Governance it is( democracy or dictatorship), I would have done exactly the same thing.

I am not scared of burqa or Mullahs, they CAN not affect my ways of Life...........if, we live in Pakistan or In USA or anywhere in the world. I know what My stand is for...........It is not for mullahs establishment, it has got nothing to do with burqa.............this is the right action that was taken when everything else failed.

# 8:-[[[Would you say the same thing about thee hooligans who want to close down the music stores or burn the cinema houses down. When do you think it should stop?]]]

Answer:- Just go back and read all my posts..............Tell me one post where did I support Mullahs for Lal Masjid`s Incident? Show me where did I support their demands for closing down the music stores or burn film theaters(cinema houses)?

Again, I believe that Lal Masjid`s incident and other stuff is just that some pseudo Mullahs took advantage of this whole situation and got all nerved up for their own selfish agendas.

Yes, I will demand closing down of music stores, if, their NOISES disrupt my daily routine. If, their NOISES disturb my sleep and the sleeps of my neighborhood............if, I am studying and their noises are disturbing my studies..................Then I will inform the higher authorities or will try to discuss it out with the owners of Music stores about my problems, if, my family is sick........If, this can be settled down in a very nice and peaceful way, I will not take any action myself.

I do not have any problem with selling CDs or DVDs..........

Again, let me clear one more thing.........I think even Loud speakers in Mosques should be banned, if, they do disturb your sleep and your studies and your daily routine.

Back in the past, there were NO loud speakers in the mosques..........even then people used to pray with more enthusiasm...............

We do not need loud speakers at all for any purposes. I do not even like loud music in Pakistani transport as well...............

It has got nothing to do with religion..................

At the end...........hasanmahmood sahib

To you , your belief and to me my own................

Regards ]]]]]

Zeena, ignore these people. They will never get your point of view. They don`t understand that some religions and Prophets simply have to be respected.

#12 kaalchakra jii

Thanks for your positive feedback.

#12 kaalchakra jii

Thanks for your positive feedback.

---

hahahhaha Kala ji is probably getting neela peela after having a 10 min long laugh:)

Zeena beTi, you seriously think I will read your whole 10 pg long post after reading your response to kala below? you are over extending the empire of your intellect. Please stop before you end up disintegrated in a small room in psychiatric ward of your hospital.

if above is a fatwa...then consider it one of those advisory kind. of one:-)..even though I am not your white doctor colleage:-)

Besides death fatwa on Taslima will not do Islam any good, either.
The best bet for Muslims is to completely ignore Taslima`s derogatory remarks.

By announcing fatwa for this woman will only give her more publicity and that`s exactly what she wants....................just think about it.

#14 dullabhatti sahib

sadly, you are constantly cyberharrassing me on front page.

Will you please be kind enough to stop cyberharrassing me?
If, you have your own relevant views on this Taslima`s topic @ hand, go ahead, post them here.

It serves no purpose to harrass me when the fact of the matter is I am NOT the topic of this article.

Chwok staff
Kindly take the notice of dullabhatti`s cyberharrassment for me...........and please, remind this interactor that I am not the topic of this article.

And also to remind this intractor to stick to the actual topic. Thanks

10 by Dullabhatti,

Ur point s well taken. Yeapp, it`s always the case abt one group thinking -vely abt its opposing group.

Author,

Religion relies solely on belief system. They never stand the scrutniy of historical, scientific inquiry.

Evey religion has skeleton in its cupboard.

``In a news conference on March 15 2007 the President of All India Muslim Personal Board Maulana Tauqeer Raza Khan said that if the Government of India doesn’t restrict Taslima Nasreen from entering India then he was announcing a 5 lakhs (approx US$11,363) reward for any faithful Muslim who would behead Taslima. ``

If this is true then this man has committed a serious crime against Government of India and Indian legal institutions and should be dealt with accordingly. Nobody can take the law in their own hand no matter what circumstances.

Having said that I would also like to mention that we should stop the vein attempts to link every crime to the historical precedents. I don`t care so much for the history of Islam or, any other history for that matter. What happened in the past has happened already. We live in the modern society now where the law of the land should be supreme.

There is nothing new in the article. Let me make it somewhat more thought provoking by raising a few questions. The questions are :

1) ``Is killing for any reason treated as MURDER under INDIAN PENAL CODE?``

2) ``Is desecration of a place of worship, a religious book, constitution, flag, parliament etc etc an offense attracting death penalty under INDIAN PENAL CODE?``

3) ``Is not ADVISING to kill synonymous to instigating to kill which is a punishable offense.``

4) ``Is there nothing in INDIAN PENAL CODE to take action against one who ADVISES to kill.``

Because these days fatwas are to be taken as advises the word ADVISE assumes significance.

Anyone having knowledge of Indian Laws should come forward and reply.

Samar

Unfortunate it is that the disciples of Muhammad(PBUH) bringing him bad name by adopting extremism. I think any fatwa for violence needs to be dealt with utmost intolerance on part of the govt and civil society. Today is the age of information and information is flowing all ways.

I was flabargasted to read the extremist sermon of LAl masjid imam trying to call for violence against the govt of Pakistan. Either many of muslim clergymen have gone mad or lagging behind in their understanding of progressive societies which is again highly questionable.

It is politics at its worst.

Regarding Taslima, I have no respect for her either. She is cashing in and some twisted elements in the West are using her unfortunate past which forced her to express her frustrations in form of a book where rationality must have been a common casuality much like in other cases where expression out of duress is brought forward. I havent read the book but anyway there is no doubt in my mind that she has voluntarily taken side of the Western lobby who are using her as a bate to bring tolerance in muslim societies by questioning and many time ridiculing every thing entailing islamic practices. She has taken the bate, enjoying the goodies of recognition.

Islamic repression is not islamic but anthropological in nature. Islam is the same religion where the name of Bulle shah is prosperring and many such philosophers of amazing perspectives. Their silence in the political life of a muslim is unfortuante but then the silence is more manufactured partly by fundamentalists and their political gainers to achieve their motives and many cunning Western mafia groups to self prove their case of islamic regression.

Then we can also delve into economic circumstances of social groups in the Eastern peripheries to further explain why such irrational and outdated modes of expression by such muslim clergies.

p.s. if in the West you tell that you are an Arab, one gets all complemeptary remarks `` How good corporate Arab is doing``and there are 110 conversations one may get into with a white man or a woman (white is relative here) about pleasures of life. However if one clalims to be a Pakistani the second question would be if you are a muslim and if so a practicing muslim and if yes or no next questions would always pertain islam, islamic extremism etc etc etc. I am amazed how judgemental people are and become ignorant to intricacies of theology and abuse others much like today`s mullah is abusing the liberals.Mullah calls for violence and liberals ridicule those who listen to them. Better should be the mindset where voices of extremism are curtailed coming out of institutions and modest elements work for harmony and preach reason rather than passing judgements.

So both such pseudo liberals and mullahs are feeding on each others hate and many shrewd politicians are cashing in big time. It seems social confusion is living long and spreading wings and prosperring like always whether it is Chowk in world wide web or a chowk next to your homes. Atittudes remain pretty much same.

Re: # 20

Are you aware of the numerous inconsistencies in your post. How are the disciple of Islam embracing extremism. Clearly Mohammed himself would have wanted Taslima beheaded or dismebowled or whatever if he were alive today. His actions are similar to any cult leader. How do you defend the murder of the poetess Asma Bint Marwan? Please I am REALLY curious to understand how Muslims sanction the cold blooded murder of a mother. Spare me the usual blah blah of Bulleh Shah, tolerance of Sufi etc... Why should you be flabbergasted by Lal Masjid they are articulating and encouraging the mindest of Mohammed are they not?

So you have not read her work! Big suprise. How is she cashing in? I know so many individuals who feel as she does but do not want to go thru the hassles of being endlessly harrassed.

Please justify the deaths and murder commanded by you peaceful prophet so all of us in the dark can understand what is going on now is a western conspiracy. Esp the death of Asma Bint Marwan. Please explain.

All of you nappy-headed-hos, should be ashamed of yourselves for disrespecting our religion.

Re: # 22

Respect is earned. Behavior of Mohammed was abdominable for much of his life. Mastermind at manipulating, bullying and orchestrating group dynamics. Appeals to the lowest common denominator. That is why its so popular with people. Just like
Howard Stern radio show.

eastmwest

I deducted my impressions from logic not emotions.

Net contribution of Muhammad (PBUH) in Arab some 1500 years ago= overhelmingly positive
He talked about women rights (property rights etc) when infanticide was practiced widely. He stressed upon rationality. Donot isolate his life in one sentence but see his life contributions of many decades. There are many accounts and books in addition to Quran. Thus one may easily deduce he was a prophet of God. Now he indeed fought many wars and he was a military strategist also. Overall, he was working for peace and logical reasoning. He lived simply despite establishing his power in Mekkah and Medina. He went conquer Mekkah but forgave the opponents.

His message to the people was entirely logical and it is to , be fair, simple etc etc and stop the worship of mere idols but be spritual. Now how he dealt with some of the propaganda and spin masters of his times who were spreading most probably lies and mischief and trying to either become his copy cats in a twisted manner was his prerogative. However all this is totally out of context here and the author also is wrong in a sense that he made too simplistic an argument to explain fundamentalism practised by muslims or muslim clergy by restricting himself and also highlighting some isolated hitoric accounts.

So let me not go into further details to prove prophethood of Muhammad as I donot intend to do any such here. Above lines were just to suggest there is no contradiction in my earlier post. Now let us come to today`s age and my comments were on Tasleema Nasreen and the violence preached by clergymen stands correct without much contradiction.

If you can justify the cold blooded murder of Asma Bint Marwan (I think she was suckling one of her children) then your argument might have weight.

If he is so laudable and great why the anger at people who disagree. Buddha strived to alleviate human suffereing but did not have to incite muder, looting and mayhem to do it.

I think Mohammed was more of a charlatan. Everytime he wanted something (like marrying Zainab) miraclously Allah allowed him to do so. Many cult leaders are not motivated by wealth or material gain but the lust for power and do implement positive effects on their population/followers.

I don`t think you have read this article or even really thought about why Muslim countries in particular are so reactionary to any opposing view of Mohammed, in fact preferring any critic to be put to death.

The real problem is that just as you might find him a source of inspiration others might see him in a very different light and they should not be killed for this! I find your phrase ``How he dealth with propaganda etc.. was his perogative`` extremely disturbing. They way he dealth with them was usually utterly barbaric and is also part of his legacy which continues today in Saudi Arabia, Lal Masjid etc...

...chowk has officially become the mouthpiece of hindoos and bhayyas...both of whom have ONE agenda- break pakistan and insult islam....it`s ime for pakis to rethink and move over to www.pakistaniat.com rather than stay here and be insulted on a daily basis by the rss agents...

Congratulations on writing on a difficult topic. Taslima should definitely be given a long-term visa in India. It is a shameful display of pandering that prevents our goverment from doing so.

You are correct in locating sources of intolerance around Mo` himself and also some of his immediate followers. Like Christianity, mainstream islam has had no problem with the use of violence to propagate the ``correct view``. Unlike modern Christianity, there is little recognition of this problem within islam or any remorse or self-consciousness. So it is difficult to address this issue, for the faithful it simply doesn`t exist...

However, I would also like you to comment on incidents like:

(a) Exile of MF Husain from India
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/04/06/his_epic_works_have_brought_him_praise_and_protests/

(b) Attacks on American Scholar and burning of great indian library in Pune
http://www.complete-review.com/quarterly/vol5/issue1/laine0.htm

(c) Attack on Indian historians - example of Professor Jha
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1818/18180160.htm


Where do these fit in? This has nothing to do with Islam, right? So there are sources of intolerance in many cultures, including hindu culture, and each culture should struggle to rid themselves of this scourge. The roots may be different - religous imperialism in islam - excessive localism and superstition in hinduism - but the results can be strikingly similar.

I dont think Nasreen will be harmed physically and these days it has become common for women and men of erstwhile islamic faith like
Salman
Manaji
Asra Nomani
Nasreen
Herse Alli
to cash into islamophobia that is leashed upon bilion of islamic people including the site ``islam Watch`` by this writer Kisan who does not have free speech in his mind
as much as his cause of propaganda as a goal by setting websites

Re: # 26

So questioning the murder of Asma Bint Marwan is insulting Islam? Funny I guess you are in agreement that Taslima needs to be beheaded. Do you have any other people to add to the list? Typical reaction from closeminded indiviudal who demands tolerance from the whole world to justify his own brand of intolerence. I can appreciate the many great contributions of Mohammed but that doesn`t mean that he is beyond reproach because there are nutcases (like Maulana)who are prepared to kill anyone who disagrees.

I have been on pakistaniat.com and sorry to disappoint you but their are conflicting views their as well. The mullah of Lal Masjid is not inciting to kill Hindus or Sikhs but fellow Muslims! He has plenty of inspiration form Mohammed on how to murder those who digress of course it is with the highest motivation; to achieve a peaceful Islamic society. How any literate peron can accept such convoluted logic is beyond me. PS Why is it only Islamic societies who dispense death penalty for critizing Mohammed? Why the harsh reprimand? Do Buddhists kill those who think Buddha is a joke or would rather follow Islam?

Re: # 28

Oh please, how about all the people who have been killed or assaulted? Too long to list. How much money and fame did Asma Bint Marwan get? Why is everyone avoiding ansering this?

If Islam is so peaceful why is there a new death sentence to anyone who dares digress?

PMishra2 makes some valid points about the attempts to censor those challenging Hindutva politics being censored by the Govt in India under the BJP. This shows a real problem from Hindu fundamentalists also. The nature of it may be slightly different but it is still problematic.

You wrote:
However, I would also like you to comment on incidents like:

(a) Exile of MF Husain from India
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/04/06/his_epic_works_have_brought_him_praise_and_protests/

After cartoon incident Hindu fanatics saw the opportunity to say ``us too``, he`s insulting our religious feelings too. BJP even brought this up in the parliament.

(b) Attacks on American Scholar and burning of great indian library in Pune
http://www.complete-review.com/quarterly/vol5/issue1/laine0.htm

The above gives BJP a very bad look with Vajpayee justifying what took place and suggesting prosecuting a historian for hurting sentiments.

(c) Attack on Indian historians - example of Professor Jha
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1818/18180160.htm

All of these examples show the same phenomenon of using legal maneuvers, intimidation and limited amounts of violence to enforce Hindu dogma and a line of Hindu politically correct history telling and this in the name of ``respecting Hindu sentiments``.

You wrote:
Where do these fit in? This has nothing to do with Islam, right? So there are sources of intolerance in many cultures, including hindu culture, and each culture should struggle to rid themselves of this scourge. The roots may be different - religous imperialism in islam - excessive localism and superstition in hinduism - but the results can be strikingly similar.


Most cultures will use state apparatus`s to protect the official dogmas. Islam is however par exellence unique in the extent of the violence it allows itself in protecting it`s official dogmas with killing of apostates and murdering of those who critique it`s prophet. Often times the Hindu fanatics use as a justification for their actions a type of example pointing to the effectiveness of Islamic fanaticism and say that if it works for them we should also use such tactics too. That is not to say that Hindu fanaticism is not a major problem in it`s own right although it is a novice in regards to Islamic extremism at present.

There is a need to allow for free critique of dogmas curtailed at present in the name of respecting sentiments (and temporarily avoiding riots and bloodshed by those with hurt religious sentiments).

K.

Some Indians and Hindus here on this board have GONE WILD against our Prophet(PBUH).

Such hatred I have never seen anywhere....

They are really examplery Indians....ofcourse in their extreme hate for our beloved and kind Prophet(PBUH).....

Now come and kill me based on my religious affiliations.........what a shame....

Re: # 32

So you think Asma Bint Marwan should have been murdered? So should Taslima. Hey dummy fyi some clerics in Saudi Arabia think the same applies to Shias. Are they Hindus? Obviously you have no problem with Maulana!@!@#.

The starting point for all of this is how Mohammed dealt with those who did not get his message. DEATH to them. Now the violence spewed by Lal Masjid clerics is quite plausibly an extension of this mindset.

Prophet wasn`t perfect, get over it, deal with it. Stop killing people because of it.

Re: # 32

I have no desire to see anyone killed because of their religious likes/dislikes. How about you?

Re: # 23, eastmwest,

Though it a diversion from the article it must be stated that many progressive thoughts are attributed to Islam and rightly so. I will enumerate a few below.

1) Equality of all human beings. No discrimination on the basis of caste, creed, colour, ethnicity. In the US slavery was abolished in the nineteenth century whereas it was abolished in the Muslim world as soon as Islam became powerful.

2) Equality between men and women. Laws of inheritance are the best in Islam.

3) True belief in oneness of God which is quite progressive thing to implement in those times.

4) It encouraged simplicity, piousness, brotherhood, honesty.

5) Islam is a complete way of life. Religion plays a vital role in day to day affairs of the society and the politics so nobody is absolved from his duties even in day to day affairs.

Though Islam is a progressive religion it has inherent weaknesses too. Firstly there is no Christian type Church. This has made it pron to interpretations by any lallu-jagdhar. This has caused it to grow into many rigid forces fighting between themselves because the one seen to be more inflexible was treated as more faithful. From the very beginning interpreters prevented it from growing into a free and open religion bringing into itself many new and modern ideas. Many scholars were killed and subdued. Many poets and scientists whom Muslims today claim to be theirs can not be treated as Muslims at all. This is a fact that Islam has played a vital role in furthering progress and modernity in the past it requires some kind of reform now. They may not change Koran but they must interpret it so that it may be projected as progressive, forward looking and united force able to face challenges posed by modern realities.

Samar

Re: # 19
``1) ``Is killing for any reason treated as MURDER under INDIAN PENAL CODE?``

2) ``Is desecration of a place of worship, a religious book, constitution, flag, parliament etc etc an offense attracting death penalty under INDIAN PENAL CODE?``

3) ``Is not ADVISING to kill synonymous to instigating to kill which is a punishable offense.``

4) ``Is there nothing in INDIAN PENAL CODE to take action against one who ADVISES to kill.``

Because these days fatwas are to be taken as advises the word ADVISE assumes significance.

Anyone having knowledge of Indian Laws should come forward and reply. ``

I have always maintained that these mullahs should be booked under IPC for incitment to people to attempt murder. A call in public to murder someone is an act of criminal conspiracy as defined under the Indian Penal Code, Section 120. Section 307 of the code defines what constitutes an “attempt to murder” and this mullah should be booked under these sections. Infact courts should suo motu take cognizance of this provocation because it is also an attempt to disrupt public peace and harmony.
I have already written to the hon`rable HC to take cognizance of this and direct the police to file an FIR against this mullah and arrest him immediately. Infact, if anything happens to Taslima this mullah should be the first person to be arrested and sent to jail - along with his co-conspirators.

Re: # 35

I agree with your points. They are the reasons that Islam has attracted so many adherents as well. The kindness, humility and deep spirituality that I have witnessed of many acquaintances is testament to that. Islam fosters connectivity and is a salvation from blind hedonistic individualism. I see all of this.

My chief problem is that everything about Islam and Mohammed is beyond reproach/scrutiny. I have researched the life of Mohammed for the past 20 years and clearly there are numerous examples of self-serving (as well as selfless) and cruelty(as well as kindness). The examples listed above are very problematic but labelling anyone who raises them as necessarily an enemy of Muslims is myopic.

As for Zeena I am all to familiar with the offensive and derogatry vitriol spewed by Muslims towards Hindus, Christians, Jews etc... Yet they seem entitled to a double standard. Let me assure you its never going to happen. I am not suprised that fanatic Hindus are using tactics masterminded at squashing dissent by Muslims. Lowest common denominator seems to win.

It just baffles me that the kind of cold blooded killings listed above do not unnerve some interactors and instead they blissfully offer ludricous justifications.

Hey, Hindu Jihadi Indians

Keep on insulting our Prophet(PBUH)...keep on showing hatred for Muslims......
will that make any difference? absolutely NOT.

Re: # 38

You are incapable of any dialogue. If someone disagrees with you they must be a hindu or indian.

One of these days you might end up on someone`s fatwa list and there will be no one to defend you. Ever thonk of that.

People who go around making lists of who deserve to die are the REAL problem. Of course to you it might seem like a harmless hobby.

Re: # 38

I think you should relax and try not to indulge into name calling. One never knows what other person`s ``intention`` might be while indulging in this level of discourse at a discussion forum. Some people are just too scared, some are too inquisitive but do not know how to ask a question, and some are simply bored. Our job is to:


``Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.`` ..... The Bee 16.125


As far as blasphemy and its treatment is concerned, the law governing the issue, in Islam, is very explicit. In order to argue with them, try to learn about the said law. The political reasons, behind any `agenda`` are well known as well. Help them understand why our Prophet (pbuh) gave us this law, and why it is necessary in society.

Re: # 39

Abbayy Pultipharakhyarpujaramalthisharapitpitubhajan,

You are getting your knickers in a knott for taslima`s well being, however would gladly burn your own mother with ur dead father? Do you sabji`s have any idea how ironic not to mention dowright hypocratic it sounds when you morons try to act cute? YOU THINK COW IS GOD! End of discussion, you can only be made fun of there CAN NOT BE any sort of intelligent discourse with you. Why is it so hard for you dimwits to get.

Now for all of you who are not soaked in cow-piss. Get this in your heads no tom, dick & Tasleem raza is allowed to issue ``Fatwa`s`` on who should live and who should die. In Islamic jurisprudence ONLY STATE is allowed to make laws and the penalties for those laws. For all intent and purpose in this day age Islamic Shriah is only going to come to frution thru democracy. What i mean by that is that if the majority of an y country decide that they want to govern themselves with a ceratin code of conduct than how is it any different from the concept of western democracy? If a majority in country decides that whoever picks there nose in public should be executed or insults shakespere or questions the theory relativity should be hanged, that is there perogative. As a rule no single person no matter how pious he is, is allowed to form laws and execute punishments in a Islamic framework, we have a lineage of 1500 years and there is no example of this anarchy. I love it when these einsteins quote Asma Bite Marwan`s incident like there kahloo jee was present there and videotaped the whole event, however if the same book or resource lists an incident that Prophet (PBUH) broke the moon in 2 pieces than it all must be a lie. Listen you are a Hindu and that makes you bitter for obvious and quite justifiable reasons, looks depravation of beef, smelling like cow-piss all day long, i get it, and i have sympathy for ya, but stop pretending to be scholarly it just doesnt suit the bobbling head.

mr. eastmwest

were you with Muhammad some 1500 years ago....No.....Are you an historian (objective one that is)...no......so stick to contemporary issues because most logical step is to under stand the life of Mushammad is to read about it in its entirety, read Quran read other islamic literature, the read larger history of mankind and then relate it to contemporary times and even contextualise it......

If you are an Indian and if your army is funded by your taxes and even if one kashmirir is killed innocent or even one innocent has been killed by police encounters, are you ready to claim your government a terrorist state...definitely not.....

Now definiitely you have certain biasness and you want to see a certain colour and thus failed to objectively analyse history.

Islam is getting a bad marketting and thus you think your argument against Muhammad has a lot of weight....pretty hilarious is such mindset.


So better stick to Taslima and the mad clergy and stop passing sweeping judgements and putting words in other people`s mouths.

ANd secondly muslims need to stop being offended by insults on islam and prophet but be tolerant. We are already a powerful entity becuase of our sheer numbers. Yes a polite explaination should always be there if any one has patience against some hate attack. Let the others show their ignorance and insecurities.

People who really want to seek truth would always have a opinion quite different from hate mongerers or even fundamentalists.

to all the Hindus,
people nothing you will say will ever convince a muslim that you are intelligent. Secondly, the only thing you are showing to the Muslims is how worried you are about your own religion. Remember if every Muslim just piss once the whole Hindu community will drown. Maybe then you will really be purified instead of taking a dip in ganga with thousands of cow turds floating around. Calm down people and start acting the same way as you act in real life. ``Thousand Apoligies`` is the only way you can survive. However if you insist on keeping up with the abuse then so be it. Maybe then you will go home tell all the women (and in some cases the pujaris ;)) in your life how big of a man you really are. Just dont show them the article of you being being small that got published in BBC (and the whole world). LOL.

#26 if you r goingback in history why dont you inform instead of hiding the atroceties particularly in
Manu simriti

---

the oldest holy scriptures of Hindu which the modern hindu like to interprest according to there own liking..it has all the atroceous remarks about women and more

``My chief problem is that everything about Islam and Mohammed is beyond reproach/scrutiny. I have researched the life of Mohammed for the past 20 years and clearly there are numerous examples of self-serving (as well as selfless) and cruelty(as well as kindness). The examples listed above are very problematic but labelling anyone who raises them as necessarily an enemy of Muslims is myopic. ``

It is similar with Judaism (a vengeful and jealous god) and to a much lesser extent in Christianity (still an overbearing God with a bit of a complex - wanting to be worshipped alone to the exclusion of all others) and though the son of God does not advocate violence, the revelations are full of ghastly happenings for the Kaffirs.

So really, Islam is no different from any other semite religion. Your singling out Islam has more to do with the unique situation that Muslim societies are in today (fundamentally insecure and unenlightened) rather than any particlar peculiarity about Islam in it self. Your case may have more validity if it differentiated between Semite and Eastern religions in the collective sense.

No religion preaches killings. At least, I am not aware of one. It`s extremely wrong to promote one`s own agenda under the umbrella of a religion.

Having been a long time member and supporter of the Asia Society, I have attended quite a few programs where some of the controversial figures were invited for an open discussion. You can only expect that kind of mindset in the western society. Easter societies are way too narrow-minded for any kind of discourses or discussions. They only know how to violate human beings and how to take over via bloodless or bloody coups.

So, during one of the interesting programs, Ms. Taslima Nasreen was also invited to share her perspectives. Obviously, as a grown up woman, she had her share of perspectives based on her background, personal life experiences and outlook towards life. I must say that her childhood experiences were very disturbing and sad. On top of it, her book also added fuel to the fire. She was happily promoting her Banglaa language and reciting some excerpts from her book in Banglaa. Obviously, few jayalas in the audience were ready to give their lives to hear their fellow country woman speak Banglaa at the Asia Society.

I did not care much for anything Ms. Tasreen had to say. Some of her pointers could have been considered very offensive. But then something occured to me as the program was done, she never asked anyone to lean towards her beliefs or her experiences. She was vocal about her own background, the hypocrisises, and various bad experiences. In short, a life full of negativities had impacted her view on life. But she was definitely entitled to her view.

With all that said, I do not believe that anyone should have the right to issue fatwas on anyone`s life. By doing that, we will never allow people to come forth and express their own life`s experiences or understanding. Not every Muslim or Christian or Jew or Hindu has a hunky dory impression of their respective religion. Why can`t we accept that?

In case of Islam, some Muslims have become notorious for spreading intolerance in whatever community and environment they land in. This thought process has created more uproar than respect for Islam. Don`t get me wrong, Christians are very territorial about their religion and holy figures. If there is a misportrayal or bad portrayal, they will also raise hue and cry. But they will not go around issuing fatwas or killing human beings.

That`s where we have to draw the fine line.

I am not sure if the so called Islamic societies are prepared to live in the modern day and age. They are certainly not civil societies.

Re: # 46
Mohtarma the supposed Islamic societies are not civil societies not BECAUSE of Islam but rather lack of understanding of what the REAL spirit of Islam is. When you discourage democracy and rule because you have more guns then you give message to masses that this a jungle where the might rules, Jamia Hafsa and their disillusioned is an apt example of that phenomenon.We have rulers in all these Islamic societies that thugs, looters and could care less about Islam or Muslims or anyone for that matter.

What i find interesting about you supposed enlightened is that you don`t question the stupidity of declaration of mere discussion on the validity or scale of holocaust as a crime but you have the audacity to question the intellect of people who protest if the basis of their entire religion is attacked. I have said it many a times that we need to be consistent with our standards. If you respect the opinions of the majority in USA when they pass a draconian law sucha as patriot act, then when and IF the majority of pakistan passes law in which the disrespect of ANY Prophet is a crime then you need to be a law abiding citizen and not break that law, and if you must then whatever the punsihment is should not be considered outrageous. If you think that any punsihment or law is unfair then in civilized socities there are discourses available to repeal laws, we follow those procedures here in west it shouldnt be any different in ``Islamic Countries``.

#45 by stuka on April 16, 2007 11:45am PT


So really, Islam is no different from any other semite religion.


Islam gets defined by the way it`s followers practise it, not by what the koran says...nobody gives a rat`s rear about whether the koran says muslims should live in peace when we see them either doing the exact opposite.

``Islam gets defined by the way it`s followers practise it, not by what the koran says...nobody gives a rat`s rear about whether the koran says muslims should live in peace when we see them either doing the exact opposite.``

Fair enough, as long as you put in the qualifier that the followers practise it is also specific to time. Should Christianity be defined by the period of the inquisition or should it defined by the Church today?

This is Allah speaking.

Mohammad was a charlatan, as all prophets are.

At the very best he was a power-hungry peadophile.

These fatwas are result of the intolerance and bigotry that he perpetuated.

To be true he would himself be surprised that people really continue to believe his camelshit!

Peace.

I am just posting Miss Farzana Versey`s today`s i-log to show these hateful Hindus their real faces......LOL....

[[[Mazhab nahin sikhaata...

Beyond the Shilpa-Gere kiss:

A right-wing group attacked the Mumbai office of STAR News, breaking furniture and window panes and injuring a few people. They carried hammers and iron rods. One report states, “The activists allegedly belonging to a little known organisation called Hindu Rashtriya Sena protested against the presence of a couple from Surat in the studio.

The boy is reportedly a Muslim and the girl a Hindu and a minor. The boy has been taken into custody and the girl sent to a remand home.”

Even if this is a case of a minor, the timing clearly reveals the intolerance of fanatic groups. It follows soon after the case of the couple in Bhopal (Hindu girl-Muslim boy – both adults – who converted to Hinduism) who are being threatened by the Bajrang Dal. There are several kidnappings that take place in India and elsewhere. Why the hell don’t these blokes do something? Should they not have informed the parents of the girl if they were so concerned? And I would also like to know what programme the channel planned to air.

If it was one more sensational story, then I’ll be damned if I will forgive the media. Instead of getting underage couples in their studios they ought to debate the issue or inter-religious alliances and play a proactive role in putting the goons in their place for meddling in people’s lives instead of trying to get sound bytes from them. ]]]

#40 Urstruly sahib

Very inspiring post, indeed. Yes, I won`t indulge myself in this hateful discussions. Thanks

#41 and #47 abu_safwaan

Very valid posts. Keep it up. Excellent.

stuka:
it is not about definition of religion. People are being killed in the name of `X`. Noone wants to give importance a low-iq BS that a bedouin came up long time back not in public domain. And certainly noone cares if Islam reforms itself or not. It is not even about Islam. It is about holding on to our values as a society, the core principles of Enlightenment, and if some douchebag kills people according to his perception of whatever delusions he has then the debate is about taking him and other douches like him out and not about primarily correctly-identifying the nature of his delusions. We as the ones not harboring those delusions have no reason to get into a friggin theological argument on the authenticity of that stuff. Koran or Bible or whatever excuse he used to disturb public space be damned. The moment you venture into ``define Islam`` you lose 50% of the debate to Islamists cos it is their turf.

Just because I find fatwas loathsome does not make the goonish behavior of some Hindus, Christians and esp Zionists acceptable.

Fatwas as death sentences are uniquely Islamic and are embarassing. Does not make Pakestianin oppression or abuses acceptable in Kashmir.

Dear Abu retard. I am not a Hindu, nor am I South Indian. Your racists rants are pitiful. My ancestors in all probablity raped yours, does it make you happy? I am a ``real`` outsider (not a trace of Hindu blood).

#49 by stuka on April 16, 2007 12:49pm PT


Should Christianity be defined by the period of the inquisition or should it defined by the Church today?


It`s not an either or..The christianity of the old days was defined by the inquisition and the christianity of today is defined by the actions of christians today....

Re: # 44

Yeah Manu was an idiot. The movie Water demonstrated the logical consequences of his mindset. Has anyone been killed for calling Manu an idiot?

Re: # 43

Hate to tell you this but this is more a believers vs non believers debate. My Chinese friends are similarily disposed to Islam. China is an ally with Pakistan for tactical purposes but they crush any Islamic movement in their own country. True West maligns Islam often to justify their greed and violent occupation of Iraq.

The people who suffer from the mindest of Maulana and his ilk will be Muslims children for generations.

To hasan, abu, zeena

Funny but not usprising that not one of you mentionned the people who were listed above who had died or were issued fatwas against them. In rural areas of Pakistna you can accuse someone of blasphemy to force your will upon them. Iran has executed numerous people for the filmiest excuses. Some Saudi clerics want Shias to be declared heretics and killed thats why they are funding much of the violence in Iraq.

One question what the !@$#@!$ does this have to do with Hindus? Or Jews? Will you idiots at least explain why you think fatwas such as Talseemas are no bid deal and why the above mentionned individuals are better off dead. Face the music before hiding behind insults.

Re: # 47

Abu - Why don`t you list the muslim countries where the spirit of Islam is really practiced with full fervor ? Once you do that, then we will talk again. Do not forget that it is because of your muslim brethren that the whole world is upside down. Majority of the muslim countries have no value for time and whatever is associated with it. As a result, they like to jeopardize the systems and lives of others who have respect for time.

Let`s leave it at that.

Take Care.

this is a very clever bagal-mein churri-type bania article. the author starts seemingly starts with the incidence of taslima and fatwa on her and then goes on to bash mohamedism. IMO indians (hindu and muslims) are best served by bashing the AIMPLB dignitories.

hindus can derive inspiration to be good from even stones and snakes, so whats the big deal if someone derives inspiration to be good from mohammed? if they are acting vile, bash them pronto...its totally un-hindulike to start bashing mohammed.

Related news from Iran

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6557679.stm

Iran`s Supreme Court has acquitted a group of men charged over a series of gruesome killings in 2002, according to lawyers for the victims` families.

The vigilantes were not guilty because their victims were involved in un-Islamic activities, the court found.

The killers said they believed Islam let them spill the blood of anyone engaged in illicit activities if they issued two warnings to the victims.

Re: # 60

My Muslim bretheren? Like your dad is Sir Robert Rotherem of York? Just because you are intellectually competent enough to enjoy a martini and have the ``courage`` to shake the bootilicious in a bar doesn`t make you a blue blooded blonde, revlon is a hair-product not a genie in a bottle so your prayers havent been answered. Read my posts i again i wasn`t bragging about how smashing my ``Muslim Bretheren`s`` have been, quite the contrary. My contention is that Islam should not blamed for the stupidities of Muslims. Islam is not responsible for individual absurdities not even for collective ones for that matter. It can only be responsible for what`s in Quran and the authentic sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH). I don`t defend groups of people, i do however will defend my religion intellectually, especially if its attacked by obvious opportunists & liars with proven agendas such as Taslima, Ayan Hirsi, Manji the lesbo ( not that theres anything wrong with that, but sleeping with women doesnt make you a scholar of Islam, otherwise Bal thakray would be one as well) amongst numerous others. I am against violence and i truly believe that Islam has no place for vigilantiism but i also believe that any majority has a right to govern their lives with laws that they deem appropriate for themselves.

Re: # 55

hahahahahahaha..i really like pissing u off..its kindda funny..thank u for putting a smile on my face..now go worship that monkey...

Re: # 54

though the issue is serious but some of the posts have transgressed to full blown commedy

fr example: `The moment you venture into ``define Islam`` you lose 50% of the debate to Islamists cos it is their turf.`

Re: # 64

Why are u so pissed of? Just because you r mom was only a concubine?

Do you adopt an arabic moniker in the hopes that someday you will pass as one? They will only let you shine their shoes not marry one of their daughters. Because to them you are a monkey.

Re: # 66

hahahahahahaha.....what m i suppose 2 do now? disrespect ur mother? she is a hindoo..need i say more... i m on ur side man...i get why u so mad at Muslims..i dig that u grew up as dark lil weakling amongst fair skinned bad ass muslims n u have acquired this inferiority complex and there is no outlet except cyberspace cuz u know if u even hint of disrespectin anythin muslim u`ll get a beating of a lifetime, maybe u already have, n its not fair ..Muslims can be threatning like that sometimes, i dont approve of that but maybe n just maybe if u try eating beef rather than worshippin it u might even actually grow some balls n wont be this bitter..think about it

ibn Arabi

#63

[[Islam is not responsible for individual absurdities not even for collective ones for that matter. It can only be responsible for what`s in Quran and the authentic sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH). I don`t defend groups of people, i do however will defend my religion intellectually, especially if its attacked by obvious opportunists & liars with proven agendas such as Taslima, Ayan Hirsi, Manji the lesbo ( not that theres anything wrong with that, but sleeping with women doesnt make you a scholar of Islam, otherwise Bal thakray would be one as well) amongst numerous others. I am against violence and i truly believe that Islam has no place for vigilantiism but i also believe that any majority has a right to govern their lives with laws that they deem appropriate for themselves.]]

Excellent!!!

Re: # 69

Buhat shukriya..jeeti rhyayy!

allah: #50

---

This is Allah speaking.
Mohammad was a charlatan, as all prophets are.
At the very best he was a power-hungry peadophile.
These fatwas are result of the intolerance and bigotry that he perpetuated.
To be true he would himself be surprised that people really continue to believe his camelshit!
Peace.


ROFL.. is that really you??.. thanks for visiting chowk and leaving your comments.. it is so nice of you. :-)

Kisan,

You must be commended for your courage in writing this article and for your foresight in covering up your name. :)

You`re all the same ..... so-called liberals (n) :P

MUMBAI, April 16: The staff of an Indian news channel was attacked on Monday and its offices were ransacked by dozens of Hindu protestors after it broadcast an interview with a runaway couple — a teenage Hindu girl and a young Muslim man.

About 50 people attacked the channel’s office in Mumbai, saying the television company was denigrating Hinduism by appearing to promote love between people from different religions.

Marriage outside ones own caste, religion and background is frowned upon in much of officially secular, Hindu-dominated India. Romantic liaisons between Hindus and Muslims have sparked riots.

Fearing the reaction by their families and communities to the relationship, the young couple fled on a scooter last week from their homes in Surat, a city in the neighbouring Gujarat state.

They turned up at the office of Star News, a 24-hour Hindi-language current affairs channel partly owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp.

The young man said their families were against the romance and that the girl’s life was in danger.

After broadcasting the interview on Friday, Star News officials handed over the couple to police, who took the young man into custody and sent the 16-year-old girl to a remand home for minors.

Protestors damaged furniture and smashed company vehicles with hammers. A few employees were injured.

“We have arrested 18 people. They are from an unknown Hindu group,” police officer Arup Patnaik told reporters.

OMG :P:P ... this is funny

NEW DELHI, April 16: Angry protesters in cities across India burned effigies of actor Richard Gere on Monday after he showered Bollywood starlet Shilpa Shetty with kisses at an AIDS awareness event, officials said.

Right-wing Hindus burned effigies of the 57-year-old Gere in India`s entertainment hub of Mumbai and organised street rallies in the capital New Delhi one day after Gere`s public display of affection, seen as taboo here.

“This is against Indian ethos... Don`t touch our women,” the demonstrators screamed in New Delhi, the Press Trust of India (PTI) news agency reported.

Similar protests erupted in other cities like Benaras, Bhopal, Kanpur and Indore, with demonstrators demanding an apology from the silver-haired Hollywood actor, PTI said.

At an AIDS awareness function in New Delhi on Sunday, Gere embraced the 31-year-old Shetty -- winner of Britain`s Celebrity Big Brother reality show -- and kissed her several times on the cheek in front of 4,000 onlookers.

“Such a public display is not part of Indian tradition,” said the spokesman for the opposition Hindu nationalist BJP party, Prakash Javadekar.

Security was beefed up around Gere, who has starred in Hollywood hits like “Pretty Woman”, “An Officer and a Gentleman” and “American Gigolo”, sources at India`s home ministry said.

“Since he is a guest we have to provide him protection and it`s for the police to judge whether he committed an indecent act,” a ministry source said.

Shetty called for calm, telling a news conference in Mumbai: “Richard called me three times to apo