The Day We Killed Bob Woolmer
Zarrar Said March 19, 2007
#162 Posted by bhairav on March 22, 2007 10:08:56 am
http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=41638
Kenya Broadcasting Corporation
Probe of Darfur `slavery` starts
Written By:Muthoni Kariuki/bbc , Posted: Wed, Mar 21, 2007
Lawyers in Sudan`s Darfur region are investigating reports of slavery during the conflict.
``There are many cases of abductions,`` a Sudanese lawyer told the BBC.
They are too afraid of possible reprisals from either militias or state security agents to give their names but say there is strong evidence.
``It is happening but on a smaller scale than in the south,`` one Sudanese human rights worker said. Some 11,000 people were enslaved in the north-south war.
Arab pro-government ``Murahaleen`` militias rode their horses into southern villages, killing men, raping women, looting anything they found and burning the huts.
The Darfur conflict broke out just as the war in the south was coming to an end and eyewitness reports bear a striking similarity of atrocities committed by the militias, known in Darfur as the Janjaweed.
One of the worst affected parts of south Sudan was Bahr al-Ghazal - just south of the border with the largely Arab north and not far from South Darfur.
Sudanese human rights workers say some members of the Arab Rezeigat community have been in both the Janjaweed and the Murahaleen but most of the Janjaweed are from different Arab tribes.
Sudan`s veteran anti-slave campaigner James Aguer, however, says they are exactly the same groups, just with a different name.
Sudan`s government has strongly denied claims it mobilised first the Murahaleen and then the Janjaweed to terrorise civilian populations seen as rebel sympathisers.
It also denies there are slaves in Sudan, instead using the euphemism ``abdcutees``.
But some analysts say the similar methods used could be because they have undergone the same training.
One aid worker said that in both cases, after local groups took up arms against the government, Arab tribal leaders were told that black Africans were trying to take their land and needed to be resisted. The Arabs were given weapons with horrific results, he said.
Until now, a key difference between the two conflicts is that despite all the other atrocities committed, there have been no reports of people in Darfur being abducted and held for more than a few weeks.
A court in Khartoum has heard evidence that some 40 women and girls were abducted two years ago from the village of Wadi Saleh by a group of Janjaweed.
One of the militiamen sought a court order to let him legally marry one of the women but after he admitted how they had met, the judge refused his request.
Both the woman and the man said the 40 had been divided up between the raiders as a form of booty.
But the woman has since disappeared.
There is no independent confirmation of the claims but the testimony closely resembles that of some of the southerners who were abducted during raids on their villages and spent years in slavery in the north before returning home following the north-south peace deal.
One of the lawyers now investigating the reports says he has personally met two people who were forced to work for a prominent Janjaweed leader for six months, before another member of the militia helped them escape.
One reason why there seems to be less slavery in Darfur could be religion.
Both Darfur and south Sudan are mostly inhabited by black Africans but southerners are mostly Christian and animist, while Darfuris are generally Muslim, like the Arabs who have traditionally dominated Sudan.
Forced conversion seemed to be one motivation behind the abduction of southerners - they were mostly given Islamic names and told they were now Muslim.
One group of abductors was known as the Muhajadeen [Islamic holy warriors].
But this justification cannot be used in Darfur.
``Muslims are strictly forbidden to enslave fellow Muslims,`` the lawyer said.
While they proceed with their investigations, the lawyers are extremely concerned for their safety.
The Hague-based International Criminal Court has already issued an arrest warrant for a top Sudanese official over the conflict in Darfur - and says it is investigating others.
As a result, anyone seen asking questions about possible war crimes such as enslavement would be seen as a potential ICC spy, the lawyers fear.
Kenya Broadcasting Corporation
Probe of Darfur `slavery` starts
Written By:Muthoni Kariuki/bbc , Posted: Wed, Mar 21, 2007
Lawyers in Sudan`s Darfur region are investigating reports of slavery during the conflict.
``There are many cases of abductions,`` a Sudanese lawyer told the BBC.
They are too afraid of possible reprisals from either militias or state security agents to give their names but say there is strong evidence.
``It is happening but on a smaller scale than in the south,`` one Sudanese human rights worker said. Some 11,000 people were enslaved in the north-south war.
Arab pro-government ``Murahaleen`` militias rode their horses into southern villages, killing men, raping women, looting anything they found and burning the huts.
The Darfur conflict broke out just as the war in the south was coming to an end and eyewitness reports bear a striking similarity of atrocities committed by the militias, known in Darfur as the Janjaweed.
One of the worst affected parts of south Sudan was Bahr al-Ghazal - just south of the border with the largely Arab north and not far from South Darfur.
Sudanese human rights workers say some members of the Arab Rezeigat community have been in both the Janjaweed and the Murahaleen but most of the Janjaweed are from different Arab tribes.
Sudan`s veteran anti-slave campaigner James Aguer, however, says they are exactly the same groups, just with a different name.
Sudan`s government has strongly denied claims it mobilised first the Murahaleen and then the Janjaweed to terrorise civilian populations seen as rebel sympathisers.
It also denies there are slaves in Sudan, instead using the euphemism ``abdcutees``.
But some analysts say the similar methods used could be because they have undergone the same training.
One aid worker said that in both cases, after local groups took up arms against the government, Arab tribal leaders were told that black Africans were trying to take their land and needed to be resisted. The Arabs were given weapons with horrific results, he said.
Until now, a key difference between the two conflicts is that despite all the other atrocities committed, there have been no reports of people in Darfur being abducted and held for more than a few weeks.
A court in Khartoum has heard evidence that some 40 women and girls were abducted two years ago from the village of Wadi Saleh by a group of Janjaweed.
One of the militiamen sought a court order to let him legally marry one of the women but after he admitted how they had met, the judge refused his request.
Both the woman and the man said the 40 had been divided up between the raiders as a form of booty.
But the woman has since disappeared.
There is no independent confirmation of the claims but the testimony closely resembles that of some of the southerners who were abducted during raids on their villages and spent years in slavery in the north before returning home following the north-south peace deal.
One of the lawyers now investigating the reports says he has personally met two people who were forced to work for a prominent Janjaweed leader for six months, before another member of the militia helped them escape.
One reason why there seems to be less slavery in Darfur could be religion.
Both Darfur and south Sudan are mostly inhabited by black Africans but southerners are mostly Christian and animist, while Darfuris are generally Muslim, like the Arabs who have traditionally dominated Sudan.
Forced conversion seemed to be one motivation behind the abduction of southerners - they were mostly given Islamic names and told they were now Muslim.
One group of abductors was known as the Muhajadeen [Islamic holy warriors].
But this justification cannot be used in Darfur.
``Muslims are strictly forbidden to enslave fellow Muslims,`` the lawyer said.
While they proceed with their investigations, the lawyers are extremely concerned for their safety.
The Hague-based International Criminal Court has already issued an arrest warrant for a top Sudanese official over the conflict in Darfur - and says it is investigating others.
As a result, anyone seen asking questions about possible war crimes such as enslavement would be seen as a potential ICC spy, the lawyers fear.
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#161 Posted by bhairav on March 22, 2007 9:55:49 am
RE - # 148 and # 149 masadi
http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NjIzNzQ0MDk5
Slavery `still exists` in Mauritania
Published Date: March 22, 2007
NOUAKCHOTT: They do not wear chains, nor are they branded with the mark of their masters, but slaves still exist in Mauritania. In the Saharan Islamic state, a centuries-old system of bondage is resisting the rise of democracy in the largely desert former French colony. Herding camels or goats out in the sun-blasted dunes of the Sahara, or serving hot mint tea to guests in the richly carpeted villas of Nouakchott, Mauritanian slaves serve their masters and are passed on as family chattels from generation to generation. They may number thousands, anti-slavery activists say. A shocking anomaly in the 21st century, this is widely accepted in a racially diverse, hierarchical society dominated by a Moorish elite and a brand of Islam that preaches submission. ``It`s like having sheep or goats. If a woman is a slave, her descendants are slaves,`` said Boubacar Messaoud, who was born a slave and is now his country`s leading anti-slavery campaigner.
He says a 1981 decree outlawing slavery is a dead letter and slavery is alive in Mauritania, with all its manifestations of non-paid work, punishment, forced sex and other abuses. Mauritania`s military rulers, who are handing over to civilian rule in democratic elections, shy away from discussing the issue and prefer to talk of ``vestiges of slavery``. Some members of the light-skinned elite which has traditionally ruled the country deny slavery exists at all. Questions about it can draw anger, mistrust and silence. But anti-slavery campaigners say the master-slave relationship and its social repercussions are branded into the minds of all Mauritanians, just as class-consciousness still haunts social discourse in Britain and other European states. ``There is slavery in our country, in all of our society. You need laws to eliminate it. The fact people try to hide what exists just complicates things,`` said Messaoud Ould Boulkheir, a black Mauritanian and descendant of slaves. ``It doesn`t have to have chains to be there,`` added Boulkheir, who ran for the presidency in an election this month, finishing fourth out of 19 candidates.
`Born a slave`
In Nouakchott`s sprawling, dirt-poor slums, most of whose inhabitants are black, the testimonies about enduring slavery are repeated, and heartfelt. ``Yes, it`s true,`` said Abdarahman Ould Mohamed Abd, 52, a street vendor sitting outside his ramshackle hut. ``In the interior of the country, it`s the worst. You see it in the way some people treat others. Sometimes, they (the masters) have even killed children,`` he added. His own surname means ``son of Mohamed Slave`` as ``Abd`` is the Arabic word for slave. ``It comes from a long way back. But it should end,`` he said. Anti-slavery groups, such as SOS-Slaves run by Messaoud, say the fear and secrecy cloaking the issue make it difficult to bring cases of slavery to light, let alone to court. But victims periodically surface, such as Matalla, a black Mauritanian who two years ago escaped from members of a Berber warrior tribe, the Reguibat. They were holding him and his family in the isolated deserts of northeast Mauritania. ``I was born a slave. All my family, all my ancestors were slaves of that group.
My aunt, my brothers are still slaves with them,`` he said with lowered gaze. He told Reuters he herded camels for his masters, ate only leftovers from their table and suffered occasional beatings. ``I have a scar here,`` he said, pointing to his right cheekbone, ``from where they hit me with a stick``. Asked how many slaves his masters had he answered: ``There are more than can be counted``. Anti-slavery activists say it is impossible to tell how many people remain enslaved in Mauritania, a mineral-rich country twice the size of France whose 3 million population mixes white and black Moors and black Mauritanians of several ethnic groups. Diplomats in Nouakchott say the outgoing junta declined an offer from the European Union to fund an investigative study. ``It`s probably fairly widespread. In the houses of the Moors, you see young black boys serving tea. I don`t know what their work contracts are but I would not like to have theirs,`` said one diplomat, who asked not to be named. He said Mauritania`s new president, to be elected in a March 25 run-off between two white Moor frontrunners, would have to tackle slavery and enduring social and racial inequality: ``It`s at the heart of this country`s imbalances.`` Historians say slavery developed in Mauritania from the 7th century, when Arab invaders pushed south into Sub-Saharan Africa, bringing their Islamic religion which explicitly allowed the enslavement of non-believers.
This blossomed into a Trans-Saharan Slave Trade that captured black Africans several centuries before the peak of the European-run Atlantic Slave Trade. Some historians argue the practice of slavery already existed in black Africa. This religious sanctioning of slavery and the establishment of Arabicised Berber ruling castes whose wealth was partially based on it-has marked Mauritanian society. ``There is a racial policy here. It`s the politics of domination,`` said Boulkheir, adding that Islamic law and succession rights guaranteed the perpetuation of slavery, passing on ownership from master to son. He said the 1981 ban ``doesn`t exist`` in practice. ``It gives the right of compensation to the master,`` he added. ``The state has never prosecuted anyone. We need a law that criminalises slavery,`` Messaoud said. The activists said they had asked the outgoing junta head, Col Ely Ould Mohamed Vall, to include a prohibition of slavery in the constitution, but he rejected the idea. Slavery was so engrained in Mauritania`s society that it had even crossed racial and social barriers, they said. ``There are white slaves. There are blacks with black slaves. There are even freed slaves who have slaves,`` Boulkheir said. He said many Mauritanians remained ``slaves in their heads`` even after freedom. Asked if he forgave his former masters, Matalla shook his head: ``No they are bad people.`` - Reuters
http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NjIzNzQ0MDk5
Slavery `still exists` in Mauritania
Published Date: March 22, 2007
NOUAKCHOTT: They do not wear chains, nor are they branded with the mark of their masters, but slaves still exist in Mauritania. In the Saharan Islamic state, a centuries-old system of bondage is resisting the rise of democracy in the largely desert former French colony. Herding camels or goats out in the sun-blasted dunes of the Sahara, or serving hot mint tea to guests in the richly carpeted villas of Nouakchott, Mauritanian slaves serve their masters and are passed on as family chattels from generation to generation. They may number thousands, anti-slavery activists say. A shocking anomaly in the 21st century, this is widely accepted in a racially diverse, hierarchical society dominated by a Moorish elite and a brand of Islam that preaches submission. ``It`s like having sheep or goats. If a woman is a slave, her descendants are slaves,`` said Boubacar Messaoud, who was born a slave and is now his country`s leading anti-slavery campaigner.
He says a 1981 decree outlawing slavery is a dead letter and slavery is alive in Mauritania, with all its manifestations of non-paid work, punishment, forced sex and other abuses. Mauritania`s military rulers, who are handing over to civilian rule in democratic elections, shy away from discussing the issue and prefer to talk of ``vestiges of slavery``. Some members of the light-skinned elite which has traditionally ruled the country deny slavery exists at all. Questions about it can draw anger, mistrust and silence. But anti-slavery campaigners say the master-slave relationship and its social repercussions are branded into the minds of all Mauritanians, just as class-consciousness still haunts social discourse in Britain and other European states. ``There is slavery in our country, in all of our society. You need laws to eliminate it. The fact people try to hide what exists just complicates things,`` said Messaoud Ould Boulkheir, a black Mauritanian and descendant of slaves. ``It doesn`t have to have chains to be there,`` added Boulkheir, who ran for the presidency in an election this month, finishing fourth out of 19 candidates.
`Born a slave`
In Nouakchott`s sprawling, dirt-poor slums, most of whose inhabitants are black, the testimonies about enduring slavery are repeated, and heartfelt. ``Yes, it`s true,`` said Abdarahman Ould Mohamed Abd, 52, a street vendor sitting outside his ramshackle hut. ``In the interior of the country, it`s the worst. You see it in the way some people treat others. Sometimes, they (the masters) have even killed children,`` he added. His own surname means ``son of Mohamed Slave`` as ``Abd`` is the Arabic word for slave. ``It comes from a long way back. But it should end,`` he said. Anti-slavery groups, such as SOS-Slaves run by Messaoud, say the fear and secrecy cloaking the issue make it difficult to bring cases of slavery to light, let alone to court. But victims periodically surface, such as Matalla, a black Mauritanian who two years ago escaped from members of a Berber warrior tribe, the Reguibat. They were holding him and his family in the isolated deserts of northeast Mauritania. ``I was born a slave. All my family, all my ancestors were slaves of that group.
My aunt, my brothers are still slaves with them,`` he said with lowered gaze. He told Reuters he herded camels for his masters, ate only leftovers from their table and suffered occasional beatings. ``I have a scar here,`` he said, pointing to his right cheekbone, ``from where they hit me with a stick``. Asked how many slaves his masters had he answered: ``There are more than can be counted``. Anti-slavery activists say it is impossible to tell how many people remain enslaved in Mauritania, a mineral-rich country twice the size of France whose 3 million population mixes white and black Moors and black Mauritanians of several ethnic groups. Diplomats in Nouakchott say the outgoing junta declined an offer from the European Union to fund an investigative study. ``It`s probably fairly widespread. In the houses of the Moors, you see young black boys serving tea. I don`t know what their work contracts are but I would not like to have theirs,`` said one diplomat, who asked not to be named. He said Mauritania`s new president, to be elected in a March 25 run-off between two white Moor frontrunners, would have to tackle slavery and enduring social and racial inequality: ``It`s at the heart of this country`s imbalances.`` Historians say slavery developed in Mauritania from the 7th century, when Arab invaders pushed south into Sub-Saharan Africa, bringing their Islamic religion which explicitly allowed the enslavement of non-believers.
This blossomed into a Trans-Saharan Slave Trade that captured black Africans several centuries before the peak of the European-run Atlantic Slave Trade. Some historians argue the practice of slavery already existed in black Africa. This religious sanctioning of slavery and the establishment of Arabicised Berber ruling castes whose wealth was partially based on it-has marked Mauritanian society. ``There is a racial policy here. It`s the politics of domination,`` said Boulkheir, adding that Islamic law and succession rights guaranteed the perpetuation of slavery, passing on ownership from master to son. He said the 1981 ban ``doesn`t exist`` in practice. ``It gives the right of compensation to the master,`` he added. ``The state has never prosecuted anyone. We need a law that criminalises slavery,`` Messaoud said. The activists said they had asked the outgoing junta head, Col Ely Ould Mohamed Vall, to include a prohibition of slavery in the constitution, but he rejected the idea. Slavery was so engrained in Mauritania`s society that it had even crossed racial and social barriers, they said. ``There are white slaves. There are blacks with black slaves. There are even freed slaves who have slaves,`` Boulkheir said. He said many Mauritanians remained ``slaves in their heads`` even after freedom. Asked if he forgave his former masters, Matalla shook his head: ``No they are bad people.`` - Reuters
#160 Posted by bhairav on March 22, 2007 9:53:46 am
Re # 148 and # 149 masadi
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L22184525.htm
FACTBOX-Muslim Mauritania straddles black and Arab Africa
22 Mar 2007 14:54:20 GMT
Source: Reuters
March 22 (Reuters) - Voters choose between one of Mauritania`s most experienced economists and a veteran opposition icon in a presidential run-off on Sunday.
Hailed as the freest elections ever held in Mauritania, the polls pit frontrunner Sidi Mohamed Ould Cheikh Abdallahi against veteran opposition campaigner Ahmed Ould Daddah.
The winner will take over from a military junta which seized power in a bloodless coup in 2005.
Here are some key facts about Mauritania:
• THE COUNTRY:
•
GEOGRAPHY: Most of Mauritania is desert. At 1,025,220 sq km (395,800 sq miles), it is almost twice as big as former colonial power France, but has little more than 800 km (500 miles) of paved roads.
POPULATION: Almost all Mauritania`s 3.1 million people are Muslims and it is officially an Islamic republic. Light-skinned Moors have dominated government since independence in 1960.
Black Africans and Moors each make up around 30 percent of the population, with the remainder of mixed descent, according to the CIA World Factbook.
ECONOMY: Main products are fish, livestock and iron ore, although offshore oil reserves promise to revolutionise the economy.
According to a World Food Programme study, 165,000 people, or 9 percent of the population, depend on humanitarian assistance to survive through the toughest months of the year.
• WHAT HAS HAPPENED:
November 1960 - Mauritania becomes independent from France as the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, with Moktar Ould Daddah as president.
1975 - Mauritania is declared an Islamic Socialist Republic.
Dec. 1984 - After a number of coup attempts in Mauritania, Maaouya Ould Sid`Ahmed Taya seizes power and proclaims himself president. Almost two years later, Taya imposes sharia law.
Jan. 1992 - Taya is elected president with nearly 63 percent of the vote under a new 1991
constitution permitting multiple political parties, but opposition candidates denounce victory as fraudulent. Taya is re-elected in 1997 and 2003 after another coup attempt in June that year.
Aug. 2005 - Mauritania`s army seizes power to end what it calls the ``totalitarian`` regime of Taya, while he is out of the country, and says it plans to rule for up to two years. In November, the 17-member junta pledges to hold presidential elections in March 2007, five months ahead of schedule.
June 2006 - Voters overwhelmingly back constitutional changes ensuring no president can serve for more than a decade.
Dec. 3, 2006 - After a second round of voting in parliamentary elections which completed the results of the Nov. 19 first round, the opposition Coalition for Change emerges with 41 seats in the 95-seat National Assembly. The new parliament will only sit after Sunday`s presidential elections.
Jan. 21, 2007 - Elections are held for the 56-seat Senate, with independent candidates without party affiliation gaining 23 of the Senate seats. The coalition allies barely scrape 10 seats between them.
Mar. 11, 2007 - An inconclusive presidential first round election is run with no candidate securing a majority.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L22184525.htm
FACTBOX-Muslim Mauritania straddles black and Arab Africa
22 Mar 2007 14:54:20 GMT
Source: Reuters
March 22 (Reuters) - Voters choose between one of Mauritania`s most experienced economists and a veteran opposition icon in a presidential run-off on Sunday.
Hailed as the freest elections ever held in Mauritania, the polls pit frontrunner Sidi Mohamed Ould Cheikh Abdallahi against veteran opposition campaigner Ahmed Ould Daddah.
The winner will take over from a military junta which seized power in a bloodless coup in 2005.
Here are some key facts about Mauritania:
• THE COUNTRY:
•
GEOGRAPHY: Most of Mauritania is desert. At 1,025,220 sq km (395,800 sq miles), it is almost twice as big as former colonial power France, but has little more than 800 km (500 miles) of paved roads.
POPULATION: Almost all Mauritania`s 3.1 million people are Muslims and it is officially an Islamic republic. Light-skinned Moors have dominated government since independence in 1960.
Black Africans and Moors each make up around 30 percent of the population, with the remainder of mixed descent, according to the CIA World Factbook.
ECONOMY: Main products are fish, livestock and iron ore, although offshore oil reserves promise to revolutionise the economy.
According to a World Food Programme study, 165,000 people, or 9 percent of the population, depend on humanitarian assistance to survive through the toughest months of the year.
• WHAT HAS HAPPENED:
November 1960 - Mauritania becomes independent from France as the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, with Moktar Ould Daddah as president.
1975 - Mauritania is declared an Islamic Socialist Republic.
Dec. 1984 - After a number of coup attempts in Mauritania, Maaouya Ould Sid`Ahmed Taya seizes power and proclaims himself president. Almost two years later, Taya imposes sharia law.
Jan. 1992 - Taya is elected president with nearly 63 percent of the vote under a new 1991
constitution permitting multiple political parties, but opposition candidates denounce victory as fraudulent. Taya is re-elected in 1997 and 2003 after another coup attempt in June that year.
Aug. 2005 - Mauritania`s army seizes power to end what it calls the ``totalitarian`` regime of Taya, while he is out of the country, and says it plans to rule for up to two years. In November, the 17-member junta pledges to hold presidential elections in March 2007, five months ahead of schedule.
June 2006 - Voters overwhelmingly back constitutional changes ensuring no president can serve for more than a decade.
Dec. 3, 2006 - After a second round of voting in parliamentary elections which completed the results of the Nov. 19 first round, the opposition Coalition for Change emerges with 41 seats in the 95-seat National Assembly. The new parliament will only sit after Sunday`s presidential elections.
Jan. 21, 2007 - Elections are held for the 56-seat Senate, with independent candidates without party affiliation gaining 23 of the Senate seats. The coalition allies barely scrape 10 seats between them.
Mar. 11, 2007 - An inconclusive presidential first round election is run with no candidate securing a majority.
#159 Posted by okhla99 on March 22, 2007 9:50:30 am
Utterly & completely respected Masadi,
Most kindly refer to your idiotic posts #148, #149 etc.
We acknowledge your claim that you are not totally retarded. It is probably true.However, we strongly contest your claim of being a ``Genius Masadi``. Otherwise the US college would not have rejected all your pleadings and kicked you out in favour of someone who was actually literate. Now that you are back in Pakistan, stop cursing your erstwhile Gora masters who discovered your ``true colours``(you are cloured, are you not??). Try to work hard at whatever college you are in, else you will be kicked out once again, probably to a place where you really belong.
R_sole, do not ridicule Coach Woolmer`s death. He was a fine cricketer who tried very sincerely to help our cricket.
BTW, How is everyone in Lululand????
Most kindly refer to your idiotic posts #148, #149 etc.
We acknowledge your claim that you are not totally retarded. It is probably true.However, we strongly contest your claim of being a ``Genius Masadi``. Otherwise the US college would not have rejected all your pleadings and kicked you out in favour of someone who was actually literate. Now that you are back in Pakistan, stop cursing your erstwhile Gora masters who discovered your ``true colours``(you are cloured, are you not??). Try to work hard at whatever college you are in, else you will be kicked out once again, probably to a place where you really belong.
R_sole, do not ridicule Coach Woolmer`s death. He was a fine cricketer who tried very sincerely to help our cricket.
BTW, How is everyone in Lululand????
#158 Posted by rajiv2303 on March 22, 2007 9:10:18 am
enjoy this one
Don`t know who will win the cup....... just sharing an Interesting stat
I received:
Year 1981
1. Prince Charles got married
2. Liverpool crowned Champions of Europe
3. Australia lost the Ashes
4. Pope Died
5. After 1 year Italy won soccer world cup (1982)
6. 2 years later India won the world Cup!!!(Prevented a WI hat-trick)
Year 2005
1. Prince Charles got married
2. Liverpool crowned Champions of Europe
3. Australia lost the Ashes
4. Pope Died
5. After 1 year Italy won soccer world cup (2006 after 24 years)
6. 2 years later will India win the world Cup ?????(preventing an
Australian Hat-trick)
Lies...damn lies...and hopes
Don`t know who will win the cup....... just sharing an Interesting stat
I received:
Year 1981
1. Prince Charles got married
2. Liverpool crowned Champions of Europe
3. Australia lost the Ashes
4. Pope Died
5. After 1 year Italy won soccer world cup (1982)
6. 2 years later India won the world Cup!!!(Prevented a WI hat-trick)
Year 2005
1. Prince Charles got married
2. Liverpool crowned Champions of Europe
3. Australia lost the Ashes
4. Pope Died
5. After 1 year Italy won soccer world cup (2006 after 24 years)
6. 2 years later will India win the world Cup ?????(preventing an
Australian Hat-trick)
Lies...damn lies...and hopes
#157 Posted by rajiv2303 on March 22, 2007 9:04:14 am
Re: # 151
Masadi,
my man.Sorry to presume too much.But you are way too intense and serious about too much.Relax,loosen up....listen to the immortal Nusrat Fatehally Khan Saab...or Junoon or the rolling stones.
Just Chill....
PM ,you bright lad,also do likewise;-)
Masadi,
my man.Sorry to presume too much.But you are way too intense and serious about too much.Relax,loosen up....listen to the immortal Nusrat Fatehally Khan Saab...or Junoon or the rolling stones.
Just Chill....
PM ,you bright lad,also do likewise;-)
#156 Posted by rajiv2303 on March 22, 2007 8:59:58 am
Re: # 155
PM,
My point exactly.I am a dilliwalla.In the eighties, every street corner bristled with guns and whatnot as there was the Sikh problem.My family was 5 minutes away from Sarojini Nagar Market before Diwali in 2005 when Bombs went off...I was in Hong Kong,not knowing what the hell was happening.When I called my wife she said``Itna Pareshaan Kyon ho?``-Meaning ``why are you so worried?``
FYI..was tensely waiting with a Pakistani friend when a series of Bombs went off in Karachi...and his entire family was sacttered..wife out shopping, son in college,daughters in classes..we were in Tunisia.He got through to his Begum and guess what she said?You guessed it``Itna Pareshaan Kyon HO??``
Did we move from Delhi?No.I said Goras are scared.I wouldnt be...As I am sure the Goras who now live there are not...Am sure from all accounts Karachi is just like Mumbai,and Lahore is just like Delhi(BTWin Bombay, my brother missed the commuter train by a whisker before the bombs went off)...last July the city was submerged..did Mumbai stop?Not a chance
This is the Subcontinent..love it or hate it,its home..and I discovered that after nearly two decades of mostly living away from India...
As for Pakistan`s talent..whoever denies it,man.But Only the great Imran ever welded a Team together:Even the great miandad couldnt...and as for the stylish Zaheer he couldnt do a thing either.
Maybe Pak needs to turn to someone of the Old School like Intikhab Alam who just coached the Punjab Ranji team.
It will happen again.Pak will rise.No worries,mate
PM,
My point exactly.I am a dilliwalla.In the eighties, every street corner bristled with guns and whatnot as there was the Sikh problem.My family was 5 minutes away from Sarojini Nagar Market before Diwali in 2005 when Bombs went off...I was in Hong Kong,not knowing what the hell was happening.When I called my wife she said``Itna Pareshaan Kyon ho?``-Meaning ``why are you so worried?``
FYI..was tensely waiting with a Pakistani friend when a series of Bombs went off in Karachi...and his entire family was sacttered..wife out shopping, son in college,daughters in classes..we were in Tunisia.He got through to his Begum and guess what she said?You guessed it``Itna Pareshaan Kyon HO??``
Did we move from Delhi?No.I said Goras are scared.I wouldnt be...As I am sure the Goras who now live there are not...Am sure from all accounts Karachi is just like Mumbai,and Lahore is just like Delhi(BTWin Bombay, my brother missed the commuter train by a whisker before the bombs went off)...last July the city was submerged..did Mumbai stop?Not a chance
This is the Subcontinent..love it or hate it,its home..and I discovered that after nearly two decades of mostly living away from India...
As for Pakistan`s talent..whoever denies it,man.But Only the great Imran ever welded a Team together:Even the great miandad couldnt...and as for the stylish Zaheer he couldnt do a thing either.
Maybe Pak needs to turn to someone of the Old School like Intikhab Alam who just coached the Punjab Ranji team.
It will happen again.Pak will rise.No worries,mate
#155 Posted by PM on March 22, 2007 8:21:48 am
re. rajiv:
``I mean not just white americans but all goras are terrrified of PAkistan..well almost all.``
Yes. Until they actually spend some time here.
Dude, I live in Karachi. In my little totally locally-run school there are two gora teachers and three gora students. None of them have consular attachments. They`re aware of some dangers they face, but are attracted by the many charms of the city/country.
``Bob mustve been a courageous guy..``
Dude, don`t forget that the opportunity to coach a talented outfit like Pakistan is probably every coach`s wet dream-- or at least that of every coach who isn`t `terrified` by the picture painted by most of the Western media of Pakistan. And the moola, I`m sure, wasn`t too bad either.
``I mean not just white americans but all goras are terrrified of PAkistan..well almost all.``
Yes. Until they actually spend some time here.
Dude, I live in Karachi. In my little totally locally-run school there are two gora teachers and three gora students. None of them have consular attachments. They`re aware of some dangers they face, but are attracted by the many charms of the city/country.
``Bob mustve been a courageous guy..``
Dude, don`t forget that the opportunity to coach a talented outfit like Pakistan is probably every coach`s wet dream-- or at least that of every coach who isn`t `terrified` by the picture painted by most of the Western media of Pakistan. And the moola, I`m sure, wasn`t too bad either.
#154 Posted by PM on March 22, 2007 8:13:02 am
re. retard ``By the way, the Pakistani cricketers who claim that Woolmer was like a ``father`` to them ( as did many slaves during the slavery era in the US) does not disprove what I write.``
No dimwit, it doesn`t! ONE cannot conclusively PROVE attitudes any more than you your sanity. Unfortunately.
But there`s this little thing called Probable Cause. Heard of it? See how your theses start to wither on these grounds once the players` own words are matched against contrary contentions-- which, to date, are only the rants of a delusional, chip-on-shoulder retard on this website.
No dimwit, it doesn`t! ONE cannot conclusively PROVE attitudes any more than you your sanity. Unfortunately.
But there`s this little thing called Probable Cause. Heard of it? See how your theses start to wither on these grounds once the players` own words are matched against contrary contentions-- which, to date, are only the rants of a delusional, chip-on-shoulder retard on this website.
#153 Posted by PM on March 22, 2007 8:03:31 am
re. retard who writes: ``Perhaps PM is unaware of the derogatory term ``boy`` used for African Americans by their slave masters and the assertion of every white bigot that his or her best friend is ``black``.... Learn something PM rather than call others retards based on BS``
Ahh yes... the two great Pathans, no less, attributing paternal qualities to Woolmer are, of course, unwitting agents of the Colonialism Perpetuation Movement, taught to bend over backwards (and otherwise) before white skin, unable after 60 years of independence to shake off the attitudes of inferirority (which, in fact, explains the team`s poor showing against White Ireland-- intimidated as they were by not only the Irish but the Ghost of St Patrick`s that day!).
It couldn`t possibly be that Woolmer was a great guy, because Masadi doesn`t think that possible. (Hello? Heard of Occam`s Razor, Mr two-bit philosopher?)
Wah!! Masadi MiaN... your PoMo-style takes on events would put Saminasha to shame.
And THAT, my friend, is a shame as great as any! :-)
Ahh yes... the two great Pathans, no less, attributing paternal qualities to Woolmer are, of course, unwitting agents of the Colonialism Perpetuation Movement, taught to bend over backwards (and otherwise) before white skin, unable after 60 years of independence to shake off the attitudes of inferirority (which, in fact, explains the team`s poor showing against White Ireland-- intimidated as they were by not only the Irish but the Ghost of St Patrick`s that day!).
It couldn`t possibly be that Woolmer was a great guy, because Masadi doesn`t think that possible. (Hello? Heard of Occam`s Razor, Mr two-bit philosopher?)
Wah!! Masadi MiaN... your PoMo-style takes on events would put Saminasha to shame.
And THAT, my friend, is a shame as great as any! :-)
#152 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 22, 2007 7:39:18 am
#141 PM {``Fancy a (West) Pakistani pontificating on the issue of racism! :-) ``}
PM,
Paki Punju Paindoos are white ``Sons of Alexander`` trapped in dark-pigmented Indian skins.
PM,
Paki Punju Paindoos are white ``Sons of Alexander`` trapped in dark-pigmented Indian skins.
#151 Posted by masadi on March 22, 2007 7:00:53 am
rajiv << I suspect Masadi is in some Ivy League campus experiencing radicalisation as a SouthAsian or person of colour after escaping Feudal Pakistan...grin grin >>>
Rather Masadi is a public university attending non-radical (depends on who views him, to the US elite worshippers he is a radical) pragmatic sociologist who remains true to the field`s classical roots and values of truth, reason and freedom, who escaped Feudal Pakistan, only to return back to it recently. Who is often abused on chowk, but the abusers have absolutely no clue why they are trying to abuse him, except that he might be guilty of blasphemy against their unconditional love for all things western, which they attribute to reason but which is the projection of the agenda of the US power elite, the most anti-human, inhumane bunch in the history of humanity...
Rather Masadi is a public university attending non-radical (depends on who views him, to the US elite worshippers he is a radical) pragmatic sociologist who remains true to the field`s classical roots and values of truth, reason and freedom, who escaped Feudal Pakistan, only to return back to it recently. Who is often abused on chowk, but the abusers have absolutely no clue why they are trying to abuse him, except that he might be guilty of blasphemy against their unconditional love for all things western, which they attribute to reason but which is the projection of the agenda of the US power elite, the most anti-human, inhumane bunch in the history of humanity...
#150 Posted by rajiv2303 on March 22, 2007 6:53:26 am
Re: # 147
Ahhhh Yes, Bangladesh brought such a thrill by beating India..before reverting to type and getting walloped by SL.
Sambit Bal is right.It wouldnt be a bad thing if India too got knocked out.
If Jaggu Dalmiya was in charge , we would have had a friendship series between India and Pakistan in Morocco or something,(now that both teams are free!!) with ideal prime time timings for TV.And millions of nitwits will still watch...wah wah,kya fiendship hai
This damned Hype should stop.Maybe we should get back to Kabaddi,Khushthi,Gilli danda, Kite flying...and hockey???
Ahhhh Yes, Bangladesh brought such a thrill by beating India..before reverting to type and getting walloped by SL.
Sambit Bal is right.It wouldnt be a bad thing if India too got knocked out.
If Jaggu Dalmiya was in charge , we would have had a friendship series between India and Pakistan in Morocco or something,(now that both teams are free!!) with ideal prime time timings for TV.And millions of nitwits will still watch...wah wah,kya fiendship hai
This damned Hype should stop.Maybe we should get back to Kabaddi,Khushthi,Gilli danda, Kite flying...and hockey???
#149 Posted by masadi on March 22, 2007 6:52:45 am
By the way, the Pakistani cricketers who claim that Woolmer was like a ``father`` to them ( as did many slaves during the slavery era in the US) does not disprove what I write. On the contrary even if Woolmer had said that those cricketers were like his ``children``, that wouldn`t prove much as well. Perhaps PM is unaware of the derogatory term ``boy`` used for African Americans by their slave masters and the assertion of every white bigot that his or her best friend is ``black``.... Learn something PM rather than call others retards based on BS
#148 Posted by masadi on March 22, 2007 6:47:38 am
PM writes <<< ``Retarded masadi dthe cause (not motive) of Woolmer`s stress to be related to his support of the white supremist agenda`` >>>
Wrong once again. Rather
(Genius) masadi (totally not retarded) suggests that it is more probable that Woolmer`s stress (if he died of stress related heart attack) was caused by his fear of totally losing everything that describes his life in a status bound society, that of his position in the career sphere, RATHER THAN the assertion that his stress was caused by love for the Pakistani cricket team or the nation of Pakistan, because (what makes it improbable is) historically and currently as objective fact, the white male has been socialized into not worrying too much over even the wholesale destruction of inferior dark skinned creatures ( or aliens, whichever term they prefer for them).
Wrong once again. Rather
(Genius) masadi (totally not retarded) suggests that it is more probable that Woolmer`s stress (if he died of stress related heart attack) was caused by his fear of totally losing everything that describes his life in a status bound society, that of his position in the career sphere, RATHER THAN the assertion that his stress was caused by love for the Pakistani cricket team or the nation of Pakistan, because (what makes it improbable is) historically and currently as objective fact, the white male has been socialized into not worrying too much over even the wholesale destruction of inferior dark skinned creatures ( or aliens, whichever term they prefer for them).
#147 Posted by Baghi_Shehzada on March 22, 2007 6:20:00 am
t`s only a game
Sambit Bal
March 22, 2007
`If a game starts taking lives, there is something sickeningly wrong with it` © Getty Images
We don`t yet know for sure why or how Bob Woolmer died. We shouldn`t rush to judgment; it is still possible that it was an accident. It is equally possible he was murdered. And, while conspiracy theorists are working overtime on the motives, it is also quite possible that we will never know the full truth.
And in the event of this not being an accident, it is quite likely that Woolmer was a victim of cricket`s seamier side. Either it was the stress, induced by the most obscene and blind expectations of cricket fans who brook no failure, or he was killed by people who felt let down or had something to fear.
Either way, it should serve as a wake-up call to those who run cricket, and those who profess passion for it. If a game starts taking lives, there is something sickeningly wrong with it. But this is not really about Woolmer. We didn`t need someone to die to awaken us to a problem. The signs have always been there, it`s just that most of us have found it expedient to ignore them. Commodification has been chipping away at the soul of cricket for years, and now the game is the danger of losing its head.
Take the current predicament of this World Cup as an example. The major stake-holders in the tournament - the television channels and major sponsors - risk losing millions, either in cash or kind, if India go out in the first round. They are not the number one team in the world by a mile. Not even number two. They are ranked sixth in the ICC team ratings and, while that might not always be the best indicator of a team`s worth, they have not won a competition of note outside the subcontinent since 1985. Yet the fate of the World Cup rides on them. It`s a disaster waiting to happen.
Cricket has acquired a dangerous obsession with money, to the extent where it is not a question of a game needing the money to survive or grow but making as much as possible at any cost.
The reason for this is not hard to comprehend. Cricket has acquired a dangerous obsession with money, to the extent where it is not a question of a game needing the money to survive or grow but making as much as possible at any cost. Players have been ground to dust and cricket, the one-day variety in particular, has been divested of any meaning and consequence. It would seem that the administrators have learnt very little from the match-fixing scandal, which was as much a result of greed as of a surfeit of matches that meant little to the players.
Meanwhile, the Indian administrators have managed to market a massive captive television audience to acquire financial muscle that relies little on the capabilities of the national team. As a result the cricket economy has gone ahead of the game, which is struggling to catch up.
It`s an economy that relies more on projection and hype than reality. SetMax, the entertainment channel owned by Sony, paid nearly 40 % of the total cost of the ICC rights in the hope of recouping it from advertisers. Luckily for them, India made it to the final of the last World Cup and one Champions Trophy. But that was clearly not enough and Sony didn`t even bother to bid for the next set of rights, which have been won by ESPN-Star for US $1.1 billion.
ESPN-Star is a joint venture between Disney and NewsCorp, but there is little doubt which television audience they are banking on. It is an unhealthy dependence. So much should never depend on the performance of one team. Apart from putting unfair pressure on the players, it leaves the cricket economy dangerously imbalanced and prone to huge risks.
The passion of the fans is the biggest strength of cricket in the sub-continent - but it is also its weakness, particularly in case of India and Pakistan. Sri Lankan fans are far more stoic about their team`s fortunes and far more accepting of failure, whereas in Bangladesh they are grateful for every little or big victory, be that of the team or individual. But in India and Pakistan, the passion borders on frenzy.
As an Indian, I would like India to win the World Cup. But it might not be such a bad thing for cricket if they were to be knocked out in the first round
In India it is brazenly and cynically fueled by an increasingly sensationalist and populist mass media, which treats cricket as one of the biggest baits to attract advertisers. Instead of providing perspective and being the voice of reason, the media feeds the frenzy and cashes in on it. Stars are built up and decimated. Exaggerated glorification is matched by proportionate vilification. So cricketers are either to be worshipped or denigrated. There isn`t a middle ground, a measure of reality, or a sense of proportion.
The reality is that India reaching the World Cup would be an overachievement. Australia and South Africa possess superior teams, New Zealand have more balance and depth and Sri Lanka are the most improved team in world cricket. India have proven, but ageing, batsmen, a bowling attack that`s susceptible to pressure and poor fielders. To be a fan is to dream. But to many Indian fans the dream is the reality.
Nationalism is the bedrock of cricket. But you can`t call yourself a true fan if the sight of 17-year old Tamim Iqbal charging down pitch to belt Indian quick bowlers brought you no thrill. Yes, India played below themselves, but every cricket match has a winner. To be unable to comprehend, and appreciate, this runs against the spirit of the game.
Yes, India not making past the first round would be a huge setback. But it would be accorded the status of a national calamity. It will be discussed in Parliament. Television channels will conduct inquests. Effigies will be burnt, cricketers` homes will be attacked, and these will be gleefully publicised. A couple of months ago, Greg Chappell was slapped on the back by a man in Bhubaneswar seeking his fifteen seconds of fame. He was obliged. It could get worse. Someone could get killed. Perhaps someone has already been killed.
As an Indian, I would like India to win the World Cup. But it might not be such a bad thing for cricket if they were to be knocked out in the first round. Cricket needs a reality check. It has an unhealthy, and unsustainable, business model that relies primarily on an increasingly delusional and one-dimensional fan-base. The bubble has to burst for a semblance of sanity to be restored. We must learn to once again enjoy cricket as a game.
Sambit Bal is the editor of Cricinfo and Cricinfo Magazine
Sambit Bal
March 22, 2007
`If a game starts taking lives, there is something sickeningly wrong with it` © Getty Images
We don`t yet know for sure why or how Bob Woolmer died. We shouldn`t rush to judgment; it is still possible that it was an accident. It is equally possible he was murdered. And, while conspiracy theorists are working overtime on the motives, it is also quite possible that we will never know the full truth.
And in the event of this not being an accident, it is quite likely that Woolmer was a victim of cricket`s seamier side. Either it was the stress, induced by the most obscene and blind expectations of cricket fans who brook no failure, or he was killed by people who felt let down or had something to fear.
Either way, it should serve as a wake-up call to those who run cricket, and those who profess passion for it. If a game starts taking lives, there is something sickeningly wrong with it. But this is not really about Woolmer. We didn`t need someone to die to awaken us to a problem. The signs have always been there, it`s just that most of us have found it expedient to ignore them. Commodification has been chipping away at the soul of cricket for years, and now the game is the danger of losing its head.
Take the current predicament of this World Cup as an example. The major stake-holders in the tournament - the television channels and major sponsors - risk losing millions, either in cash or kind, if India go out in the first round. They are not the number one team in the world by a mile. Not even number two. They are ranked sixth in the ICC team ratings and, while that might not always be the best indicator of a team`s worth, they have not won a competition of note outside the subcontinent since 1985. Yet the fate of the World Cup rides on them. It`s a disaster waiting to happen.
Cricket has acquired a dangerous obsession with money, to the extent where it is not a question of a game needing the money to survive or grow but making as much as possible at any cost.
The reason for this is not hard to comprehend. Cricket has acquired a dangerous obsession with money, to the extent where it is not a question of a game needing the money to survive or grow but making as much as possible at any cost. Players have been ground to dust and cricket, the one-day variety in particular, has been divested of any meaning and consequence. It would seem that the administrators have learnt very little from the match-fixing scandal, which was as much a result of greed as of a surfeit of matches that meant little to the players.
Meanwhile, the Indian administrators have managed to market a massive captive television audience to acquire financial muscle that relies little on the capabilities of the national team. As a result the cricket economy has gone ahead of the game, which is struggling to catch up.
It`s an economy that relies more on projection and hype than reality. SetMax, the entertainment channel owned by Sony, paid nearly 40 % of the total cost of the ICC rights in the hope of recouping it from advertisers. Luckily for them, India made it to the final of the last World Cup and one Champions Trophy. But that was clearly not enough and Sony didn`t even bother to bid for the next set of rights, which have been won by ESPN-Star for US $1.1 billion.
ESPN-Star is a joint venture between Disney and NewsCorp, but there is little doubt which television audience they are banking on. It is an unhealthy dependence. So much should never depend on the performance of one team. Apart from putting unfair pressure on the players, it leaves the cricket economy dangerously imbalanced and prone to huge risks.
The passion of the fans is the biggest strength of cricket in the sub-continent - but it is also its weakness, particularly in case of India and Pakistan. Sri Lankan fans are far more stoic about their team`s fortunes and far more accepting of failure, whereas in Bangladesh they are grateful for every little or big victory, be that of the team or individual. But in India and Pakistan, the passion borders on frenzy.
As an Indian, I would like India to win the World Cup. But it might not be such a bad thing for cricket if they were to be knocked out in the first round
In India it is brazenly and cynically fueled by an increasingly sensationalist and populist mass media, which treats cricket as one of the biggest baits to attract advertisers. Instead of providing perspective and being the voice of reason, the media feeds the frenzy and cashes in on it. Stars are built up and decimated. Exaggerated glorification is matched by proportionate vilification. So cricketers are either to be worshipped or denigrated. There isn`t a middle ground, a measure of reality, or a sense of proportion.
The reality is that India reaching the World Cup would be an overachievement. Australia and South Africa possess superior teams, New Zealand have more balance and depth and Sri Lanka are the most improved team in world cricket. India have proven, but ageing, batsmen, a bowling attack that`s susceptible to pressure and poor fielders. To be a fan is to dream. But to many Indian fans the dream is the reality.
Nationalism is the bedrock of cricket. But you can`t call yourself a true fan if the sight of 17-year old Tamim Iqbal charging down pitch to belt Indian quick bowlers brought you no thrill. Yes, India played below themselves, but every cricket match has a winner. To be unable to comprehend, and appreciate, this runs against the spirit of the game.
Yes, India not making past the first round would be a huge setback. But it would be accorded the status of a national calamity. It will be discussed in Parliament. Television channels will conduct inquests. Effigies will be burnt, cricketers` homes will be attacked, and these will be gleefully publicised. A couple of months ago, Greg Chappell was slapped on the back by a man in Bhubaneswar seeking his fifteen seconds of fame. He was obliged. It could get worse. Someone could get killed. Perhaps someone has already been killed.
As an Indian, I would like India to win the World Cup. But it might not be such a bad thing for cricket if they were to be knocked out in the first round. Cricket needs a reality check. It has an unhealthy, and unsustainable, business model that relies primarily on an increasingly delusional and one-dimensional fan-base. The bubble has to burst for a semblance of sanity to be restored. We must learn to once again enjoy cricket as a game.
Sambit Bal is the editor of Cricinfo and Cricinfo Magazine
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