Inzi Post-Bob: An Interview

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#49 was filtered perhaps due to a misunderstanding. Hamidm quoted that incident himself ...

Naqshbandi: Hamidm I think deliberately overstretches here (i.e. into Shalom and Gesundheit) in order to make an important point: Allah does not need us to reassure Him we are thinking of Him every time we, e.g., go to do batting (as in this case). And to think such reassurances (not to mention more overt forms of bribery like sacrificing a lamb) will cause Him to over-ride the Law amounts to reducing him to the level of, say, a Patwari.

I have no problem with tradition. But in Pakistan we have gone too far because we have reduced islam to mere voodoo magic , and thus replaced responsible behavior (e.g. playing cricket without taking drugs, or doing proper maintenance on airlines, or having no individual above the law) with gimmicks (i.e. chanting Allahs name when going in to bat in case of cricket; chanting Allah`s name before a PIA flight, and chanting Allah`s name and ignoring the constitution).

I don`t think is should be anybodies business if someone wants to be religious or not, it`s entierly their choice. There are numerous sportspersons in every sport who thank there God after a victory. Those who don`t know this need to read more.

Personally I am disappointed with Mr Paracha`s mock interview. We still have a colonial mindset where English is a standard to judge the goodness of a person. Why do we really need to speak English? Most Europeans, Koreans, Japanese, Turkish etc do not KNOW and do not WANT to speak in English, then why is it so important to us? To make fun of some one on his ability to speak a second language is really in bad taste !!!

Re: # 51

tahmed,

............ thank you for your understanding,

............ look, i have nothing against soft-headed individuals practicing their silly superstitions as long as they don`t turn it into a mass obsession that leads people to blow themselves up or commit mass suicide ....... there was absolutely nothing wrong with jim jones and his followers splattering themseves with chicken blood and dancing around the fire, but you will agree that the jonestown mass murder and suicide was taking it a bit too far .......... similarly, if inzimam and the other mullahs on the team wanted to make fools out of themselves five times a day it is fine by me, but they have no right to shove their religiosity into the faces of spectators, fans and innocent bystanders ......... i wouldn`t be at all surprised if one of these bearded fools killed poor bob because they heard a voice telling them to do it !

........... to your point, i stopped flying pia when the pilots handed over control to al-lah and the fat stewardesses began to grow moustaches .........

hamidm2

People do and say such things to reassure themselves and to motivate others. So there may be clear benefits to all. Fact is, even the most reassured and motivated people may sometimes fail. Such failure implies nothing about specific beliefs. :)

The assumption here is that the said beliefs and words do not engender a negative personal and/or social dynamic, in which case, in time, `bad` consequences will accompany `good` ones.

Re: # 54

kaal,

........... i agree that ``Such failure implies nothing about specific beliefs`` ........ however, i would also add `unbeliefs`........... i will accept the fact that there are some unintended `good` consequences of such beliefs but, by and large, religion has been a curse for mankind ........ it is an ill wind and even iller when it blows from the deserts of the mid-east (inspite if my derision for the horrible hindoos, i find their silly beliefs to be somewhat less harmful than christianity and islam)

hamidm2

LOL, OK. In the silliness of our religious beliefs, it is true, we have a permanent hold on the World Cup. :)

Could it actually be that enough people in the team did not have beards.......As opposed to too many having beards........The following facts would indicated the former:

1. Inzi started growing out his beard after becoming captain..........Ever since he has become the captain (with a beard), with a very new and young team mind you, he has had the highest ODI batting average of any captain in the world.......At 44+, he is ahead of all non-bearded captains, Ponting and Dravid included.......

2. Yusuf (Yohana) started growing out his beard, after converting to Islam.......Ever since then, he has risen to the top of the world`s batting charts........behind only the non-bearded Ponting........Yusuf`s rating is the highest ever by any Pakistani.......Higher than the clean-shaved Miandad, Hanif etc.........In the process, Yusuf, broke the record for the most runs in a year and most 100s in a year, held by the great Viv Richards (who by the way also has a beard)

3. The third most prominent soul on the Pakistani team with a beard is coach Mushtaq Ahmad......In his pre-beard days, Mushtaq was rolling around aimlessly in county and domestic cricket......Lo and behold, he grows a beard and, since then, has been the top wicket-taker in country cricket over the past three years......In his clean-shave days, he was never top in anything.......

4. Afridi, after romaing around endlessly, started growing a beard.......All of a sudden, his numbers went up so high that, for the first time, he became a regular member of both the ODI and Test squad.......Then he shaved his beard and his averages fell.....thereby losing his place in the Test and ODI squad........Now he is growing it out again, and is back in the ODI squad.......I think, once it gets a little longer, his Test numbers will improve also.......

Now, lets look at how the non-bearded, clean-shaven guys are doing:

- Shoaib and Asif - out of the team on drug use
- Razzaq: broke his leg (if he had a beard, there is it possible that he would not have broken his le?)
- Openers: Not a single one has a beard, and not a single one has been able to do anything.....(though Imran Nazir has started growing out one, last week, and immediately got a record 160 against Zimbabwe)
- Kaneria: He has been doing fine, but he is not a Muslim, hence the beard rule does not apply to him......

The only non-bearded player to have some success, is Yunis Khan........Hence the conclusion is that more players have to have beards, not less.......

bulleya, that is a solid, fact-based argument. The only way to refute it (if your facts are correct) is that while beards improved personal scores, they made the challenge of everybody working together, and pulling together as a seamless team harder. Of course, that may or may not be true.

so they keep beards for modesty and thank God, big deal.

very intellectual ppl here.

#58

Solid, Fact-based Proofs of Successful People with Beard
Sri Hamidm
Sri Kaura
Sri Tauheed
Sri Kaal (a bit short)
Sri Burpinder
Sri Subroto
Sri U-no-Hu
Sri Folio
Sri Chauhan
Sri Paracha
Sri Gopinath

hamidm2:

I just watched an amazing interview at CBS 60 minutes of a 26 year old British ex-jihadi. It is at: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/23/60minutes/main2602308.shtml

Some excerpts:

``He became one of the network’s star fundraisers. Over the next couple of years, he says he raised $300,000.

His biggest contributors? ``Doctors. People who were businessmen. Professional people basically who wanted to donate substantial amounts of money,`` Butt tells Simon.

Butt says he openly told them he was raising funds for Jihad.``


And I was thinking of some of my moderate friends at chowk when I heard him say the following:
`` The position of moderate Muslims is that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Do you buy that?`` Simon asks.

``No, absolutely not. By completely being in denial about it`s like an alcoholic basically. Unless an alcoholic acknowledges that he has a problem with alcohol, he`s never gonna be able to go forward,`` Butt argues. ``And as long as we, as Muslims, do not acknowledge that there is a violent streak in Islam, unless we acknowledge that, then we are gonna always lose the battle to the militants, by being in complete denial about it.``

This is very similar to my very first interact at chowk some 8-9 years ago. I had then stated that Hindu reformers did not fight Sati by saying that it is against Hindu religion (if they had, they would have been defeated by the protagonists of Sati of whom there were many 100 years ago!) but by fighting against it. Similarly, moderate Muslims will never win against jihadis as long as they keep in denial that there are certain things that need to be condemned regardless of whether or not they are permissible in Islam.

Re: # 61

dost-mittar,

........... i agree with you 100% and that is what i keep on trying to tell nice, well-meaning but hopelessly naive moderate muslims like tahmed ........``moderate Muslims will never win against jihadis as long as they keep in denial that there are certain things that need to be condemned regardless of whether or not they are permissible in Islam`` .............. sometimes you just have to throw out the baby with the bath water - the baby will be a little bruised and shaken but it will survive (unfortunatley, as far as i am concerned)

Bad bad piece.

NFP, I think the shock of the defeat and Woolmer`s death and pushed you over the edge. This is terrible- not funny in the least.

Pity...it could have been so good.

Re: # 57

Bulleya Sahib,
Beard per se may not be the culprit, but surely the mindset behind it is the real culprit. You have made some very interesting statistical comments, to which I quote from Navjot Sidhu:

``Statistics are like miniskirts, they reveal more than what they hide``

1. Yes its true Inzi has a better batting average as captain when compared to other captains, but what u did not mention is that Ricky Ponting`s Australian team has a much much better track record when compared to Inzimam`s Pakistani team. As we all know, cricket is a team sport, not an individuals game. Another way to assess Inzi batting performance is the steady downhill decline in performance, whatever averages he has are from his younger and beardless days and the stats quoted by u r dependent upon performances on flat tarcks of the sub-continent with sub-standard teams.

2. Mohd Yusuf (Moyo) or Yusuf Yuhana was always the same brilliant batsman that he is today. His bearded performance no doubt exceptional and remarkable but was made possible because he finally came to terms with his religious conversion. Another angle to this theory, these Tablighees deprived Pakistan and the world of cricket the excellence of that batsman for three years when he was undergoing religious indoctrination and great social turmoil. Just imagine, had he been left alone to concnentrate on cricket only? Then again that wud be another algorithmic exercise of simulation.

3. Mushtaq Ahmed or MiniMe, take your pick. The only reason he is the Asst Coach now caretaker is because of his friendship with Inzimam. County cricket cannot be compared to international cricket nor does it provide any statistical relevance for players performance. English players have always been weak against leg spin thus the seemingly improved performance by Mushtaq Ahmed with the beard. Count cricket has many overseas or foreign players Without Beards, you have failed to mention their performance.