Jaane kahan gaye voh din!

i must concede however that overall lyric-making in hindi movies in older was supeior. that is one reason apparently yash chopra asked javed akhtar to start writing songs (starting with silsila i think). this must be the time when even prolific workhorse anand bakshi stopped writing ;-)

samar yar i dont think i have heard first 3 songs..? i heard rehman sing some bulbule song (from gangster?) really off-key live in an award fuction..it was awful singing :(

i dont like kumar sahnu because he sings with ``chora hua`` voice as opposed to honest full-trhoated..i guess its an attempt to make it sexy for lady-public.

samar:

``Durability has to do with time and let 30, 40 or 50 years pass and then, if god permits, judge.``

Maybe. ``Yeh zindagi kay melay duniya mein kam na hongay, afsos hum na hongay``

...and I completely agree with you re. listening to Bhimsen, Bhide, Ganharav and others for saint poets. These days, I am enjoying Bhimsen`s Abhangs.


jang:

I also like that ``aeri ri re aeri ri, kya hain yeh paheli``.

Re: # 84
Zahra
I must look at this Shakira person some time. Doubtless my 13 year old will tell me with great delight who she is. As for hips , my wife does all the leg-pulling necessary to keep me in line. -) I`ll risk the Abida Parveen CD. I think it will be worth it.

Zeemax
I haven`t heard ELP in a long time but I have that Album back in India. You bring back memories of ``C`est la vie`` and college.
If you remember my favourite Beatle single `` A day in the life`` has the London symphony orchestra playing completely out of tune at the end to emphasise the point.

Samar
You make good points.

Jang
I`ll buy the ticket I think. The interesting thing is that even in the 50`s , 60`s and till today there have been beautiful songs composed that people forget. Do you remember the songs of Daman. There is a very seductive song sung by Hema Sardesai in that film. I thought the film was quite terrible.
For longevity and simplicity I was thinking of this Salil Chowdhury tune , that I heard first in my mother tongue Malayalam and then in Hindi and finally the original Bengali sung by Hemantda. It has such a beautiful lilt. I always see the tribal dance in Satyajit Ray`s Agantuk when I hear this tune.
dhitang

Re: # 81, dost-mittar saheb,

Durability has to do with time and let 30, 40 or 50 years pass and then, if god permits, judge. I can give you some clues. Take the songs of Ek duje ke liye, Sajan, Aashiqui, Lekin. Twenty years have passed and the music still lingers. So, if you keep listening you will find almost equal percentage of great music all the time. Yes, I must say that poetry started to disappear after 60s but that was bound to happen. Film songs have their own limitations. When you have to write thousands of songs you can`t fit the same emotions in a limited variety of meters year after year. So, gradually lyrics gave way to free verses, even meaningless, rather abstract lines. This is called the problem of form which has to keep on changing. You must change yourself to appreciate it. This has happened in all branches of art. My point is, don`t lament the era gone by like the death of a sweetheart.

#82 by swarrier and #83 by jung,

I accept that my list was too random. Moreover, that depends on your taste and the songs you relate to. For Kabir and other saint poets you can try Kumar Gandharv, Bhimsen Joshi and even Ashwini Bhide.

Samar

#79 by swarrier ,

A very good example of how a totally off-key (bey-sur) note can build the entire theme is the accoustic prelude of Emerson Lake & Palmer`s `From the Beginning` from their album `Trilogy`. This was the first time I realized Sur is not everything. In fact, Sur is quite predictable while the strategic placement of a single shockingly off-key note sets the mood for the whole composition.

I concluded from it that Sur can be learnt, but bey-sur is the work of creative genius :)

#79 by swarrier ,

A very good example of how a totally off-key (bey-sur) note can build the entire theme is the accoustic prelude of Emerson Lake & Palmer`s `From the Beginning` from their album `Trilogy`. This was the first time I realized Sur is not everything. In fact, Sur is quite predictable while the strategic placement of a single shockingly off-key note sets the mood for the whole composition.

I concluded from it that Sur can be learnt, but bey-sur is the work of creative genius :)

Re: # 79

Swarrier - I am not sure if anyone would care for Eric Clapton or Simon G or Frank S when Shakira`s ``hips don`t lie`` is playing. There has to be some spark or beat in the music.

The CD I had mentioned earlier has beautiful lyrics, but I do not care much for the music. It`s very slow. You have to be in a certain mood to listen to it. It can evoke nostalgia. Just wanted to give you heads up to avoid any disappointment.

this like sucks...i completely agree with warrier re k. amonkar, various new singers and composers (incl the great vanraj bhatiaa ...he also had a couple of asha bhosle number like chahe mar dalo raj, chahe kat dalo raja in sardari). i thankfully disagree with dm that todays songs wont last because they lack some inherent quality. i think even songs like ``aeri ri re aeri ri, kya hain yeh paheli`` from yadein (?) are great songs but get quickly forgotten because in todays world there is information deluge (warrier mentined takshak and those were very good songs too).

in ``good ol days`` we got to listen to some relatively simple songs like zillion times (e.g. lari lappa lari lappa etc) on vividh bharti and radio ceylon because there was no other entertainement medium available. repetition causes a song to become hit, this is a well-known thing in western pop-world where music publishers would blitz radio stations by paying-bribing DJs to repeat songs so that they become hits.

and mukesh is perfect for singing after a few drinks..

Re: # 80
Compositions by M M Kreem in Paheli, Shantanu Moitra in Parineeta , A R Rahman (Swades, Thakshak etc) when he is not being A R Rahman, are very good. Jatin-Lalit etc have given us pretty decent tunes.
Udit Narayan and Sonu Nigam, Kay Kay, Shreya Ghosal, Sunidhi Chauhan are good singers.

I don`t particularly care for the selections you have chosen.

samar#80:

Some of the new songs are good but they do not have the durability of the old songs. Why, I even found myelf humming Reshmayya`s ``jhalak dikhla ja`` after I heard it wherever I went to in India during my last trip.

Dost-Mittar and other old timers,

Sorry to disturb the nostalgic stupor of all of you senior citizens! But I think it is senseless to sing the past for such a long time when there are modern singers of great talent easily available. Problem is that you just don`t want to listen to the latest film music. You are too biased to give an ear to it. Don`t think for a moment that all that is coming out of Bollywood is harsh noise or fake pop music. For a try would you be kind enough to listen to following songs readily available online with Musicindia.com. I assure you on its behalf that it will not desecrate the image and the idol firmly ingrained in your minds. Just you listen to them peacefully with clear heart and open mind.

1)Ya ali by Zubeen from Gangster
2)Kaho na kaho by Amir Jalal from Murder
3)Main yahan hoon by Udit narain from Veer-Zara
4)Chori chori jab nazrain milin by Kumar Sanu and Sanjivani from Kareeb

There are many more but I`ll not waste my time listing all of them. First have some feel of the things new. I am not too sure you will bother yourself even this much.

Samar

Re: # 78
No there wouldn`t be. I mean would we listen to rock for example. It`s full of besur vocalists. Look at Eric Clapton singing ``Lay down Sally``, quite terrible vocally but still an odd quality to the voice. Or Mark Knopfler singing ``Romeo and Juliet``. In the begining I tried to listen only to the Dobro guitar and try to forget the vocals. But the song grows on you.
But as Zahra mentioned earlier a lot of it is personal taste. Some of it is the milieu you are born into. For example see the similarities here.

asmahan

and
awaara

The second tune adapted from the first is in the raaga Bhairavi. Most Indians/Pakistanis would like it. Most Arab listeners would love the other.

#74 by swarrier,

What you said about Mukesh is correct. He is said to have been `bey sura`, when compared with the likes of Rafi and Manna Dey. But there was indeed a magic in his voice. So it`s not always about the `sur` ... or is it? If it was only the `sur`, there wouldn`t be half the genres there are ...

#73 by ranjit,

She hasn`t heard her `Sunjey dil waley booey, ajey main nayu dhoey` either.

Philistine is right. And a hypocrite on top of that.

Re:ZahraJ

[..By the way, who is HR?....]

Just go to any Indian music channel and they are ALWAYS playing Himesh Reshmaiyya. Every song starts with a deep nasal twang with a ``OOOOUUUUuuuuuuuuuu!!!``, so you can imagine the impact on the ears. He is the modern day Cacofonix!!

Re: # 73

ranjit - You are more than welcome to appreciate the vocals that I would not even go near. That`s what happens when good poetry is sung by someone you are not very fond of. By the way, who is HR? I do not listen to indian singers or pre-partition singers. So, I guess I never developed the taste. But it seems that HR is a character from Lord of the Rings :) May I please suggest that you keep him in your back pocket...No need to let him out.