Jaane kahan gaye voh din!

Re: # 67

I have a CD with Kishori Amonkar singing some of Kabir`s work. I have not listened to it in almost 10 years but I must dig it up. It was titled after Kabir`s ``Ghat Ghat mein panchi bolta``. There is one bhajan by Mirabai too. I did not think that it was as good as her other works. She is my favourite Hindustani classical vocalist. Her live performances are something to savour.

I used to have strong opinions on Mukesh too. However there is some magic in his voice and one must sometimes sacrifice perfectness for expression. Otherwise I would never be able to listen to any western singer except the classical ones. A large majority of pop , rock and even jazz musicians cannot hold a note to save their lives.

Lata was different. Most music directors kept her singing in the upper register because few people could sing accurately at that pitch and secondly I guess they wanted the heroine to be the good little virginal girl who never grew up. Lata`s voice seemed to have some fo that quality at that pitch. Some of her non film songs that explore the lower registers are superb.

I liked some of Nur Jahan`s earlier works but the later ones were rather limited.

Re:ZahraJ#72

[...I do not want to disrupt the romance and nostalgia in the air, but I have to express my dislike for Nur Jehan`s voice. I could never stand a single song sung by her.....]

Lahoulwilaquat!! Madam, you are a philistine!! I am sorry to say but you have no appreciation for any of the finer things in life. How can you make such a crass statement? Have you listened to her sing - ``Mujh se Pehli si Mohabbat, Mere Mehboob na Maang``? I think you should just listen to Himesh Reshmaiyaa day in and day out. Sorry to be harsh, but this was just too much to stomach....

I do not want to disrupt the romance and nostalgia in the air, but I have to express my dislike for Nur Jehan`s voice. I could never stand a single song sung by her. I do not even remember if I ever listened to one complete song by her. I would rather listen to the horrible voice of Mukesh...I am sorry that`s a bad example. Mukesh was even worse. ugh.
Lata was far more tolerable. Aasha B has some spark in her voice.

DM and kaal,

1. Meera opposed rituals and emphasized love (you may call it devotion). Nizamuddin, Khusro etc. did something similar.... don`t you think?

2. kaal you make a very subtle point. Let me go ahead and make a very heroic statement - for the unwashed masses in the sub-continent, Islam was NOT PERFECTLY true by and of itself. Perfection is being imposed by a subsect which has gained new followers - the chattering class or what I call Pakistani aunties. Mr. Bin Laden`s chamchas from the West were amazed at the `rituals` followed by the Afghans and desis. What appaled them further was that these rituals were tolerated in the camps. Furthermore, Mr. BL did not discourage such rituals .... as long as the `ritual` of jehad reigned supreme.

DM

True, debate and criticism (shastrarth) of all traditions WAS the Indian tradition, in which every heretic pretty soon became a hero or heroine to some groups of people (until Europe-educated Gandhi and Nehru decided to freeze the Indian mind with their silly insistence that every idea must be respected no matter how illogical and unacceptable it may be).

kaal#68:

I think that what GT meant was the tradition of speaking up against false rituals and superstitions which is a time-honoured tradition in India - from Buddha to Nanak and continues to the present day. Kabir was part of that tradition although I am not so sure about Mira Bai being in the same mould. She was more into devotion than religious reform.

GT

I think the Indic view has always been that while religions can be false, or take false steps, there can never be one perfectly true, and certainly not the sole true religion. Any `religion` that made such a claim is, by Indian definition, a patently false religion.

You would, therefore, be hard put to find anybody in long years of Indian traditions ever making such an exclusivist claim.

If DM Sahib disagrees, we could surely listen.

Re: # 66

swarrier - Interestingly I learned about Kabir by a learned Indian fellow on Chowk. He had just mentioned Kabir to me and I guess the same year I came across this CD and was pleasantly surprised. Besides all the fiascos on Chowk, that`s a good introduction to something very sweet.

Re: # 65

How on earth did this thing get posted twice. I`m begining to believe there are gremlins on the net. -)

Zahra
Thanks for the CD suggestion. I have not heard it and I shall definitely get a copy. I began to appreciate Hindi/Urdu later in life not being a native speaker.

Poetry in my first years in school was a dreadful subject. I always thought as a kid that a person called Anonymous wrote a lot of English poetry that he shouldn`t have.

Music was a different experience. I craved complexity in it. I suppose you could say music soothes the dumb beast. -)

RE: #59
GT
I know very little about Amir Khusro that is not common knowledge.

Re: # 55
Zahra
[Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific.]

I`m tempted to say that this is true of Physics , Maths et al. I liked calculus and Electrodynamics and Quantum mech, but was never really enthused with number theory or mechanics. -)

What you say is true to some extent? But you know it takes some time and effort to appreciate any form of art. You might hate a Picasso or a Wagner at the first sight or hearing and then you might go back to look at them in a different light later, and begin to appreciate their creations.

I`m sure some of the elders (they sound like they come out of Tolkien) must have lightened up sometime and romped to ``Aana meri jaan meri jaan , Sunday ke Sunday``... -)

The Bahadur Shah Zafar verse in the film Lal Qila was sung by Rafi and the music was by S N Tripathi. It`s been done by a whole lot of other folks too.

Re: # 61

DM:

You may very well be right. The tradition of weaning people away from the `false religion` always existed and still does in India, even within the Indic religions. Think Mira Bai here for example. According to me, and I know nothing about this aspect, Khusro`s genious (he was supposed to be very arrogant you know) lay in a very intuitive undertanding of the spiritual desires of the common people. Through this, he also understood pathways for reform. At that time there was very little of today`s Hinduism or Islam.

Re: # 62

Swarrier - While we are on the subject, for me it`s always the ``chemistry`` that has to go well :) I have been a calculus and chemistry person through and through. Physics was ok. Heat transfer and Design was where my passion lied once upon a time.

I suggest listening to Gulzar`s introduction to Abida Parveen singing Kabir. That`s the most magnificent work I have come across in ages. I do not ever share my CDs or music collection, but I gave that away to my father`s youngest sister (pophi jaan) who has the appreciation for the said verses and won`t have found them on her own in DC. That`s a huge step for me to part with something that meant a lot to me. I never missed that CD since I still have the cover and it gives me an impression that I still have it somewhere. I may not ever buy it again since I can get it on Rhapsody online. I felt like mentioning that CD since it brings artists from both side together to create magnificence.

People, like BJK, may come back to give me a sermon, ``ama zahra ji, how could you ever think of having kabir, india and pakistan in one sentence? We are all derivates of the same ancestors.`` And, he may have his own point in that :)

I like the cover and the message it conveys. Check it out if you haven`t already.

http://www.sonarupa.co.uk/itm00977.htm

Re: # 55
Zahra
[Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific.]

I`m tempted to say that this is true of Physics , Maths et al. I liked calculus and Electrodynamics and Quantum mech, but was never really enthused with number theory or mechanics. -)

What you say is true to some extent? But you know it takes some time and effort to appreciate any form of art. You might hate a Picasso or a Wagner at the first sight or hearing and then you might go back to look at them in a different light later, and begin to appreciate their creations.

I`m sure some of the elders (they sound like they come out of Tolkien) must have lightened up sometime and romped to ``Aana meri jaan meri jaan , Sunday ke Sunday``... -)

The Bahadur Shah Zafar verse in the film Lal Qila was sung by Rafi and the music was by S N Tripathi. It`s been done by a whole lot of other folks too.

GT:

Khusrau was perhaps the first Hindi poet, though he was equally good at Persian poetry. His poetry is a classic combination which can be considered as both folk and mystic, for example, his classic ``babul mora neehar chhuto hi jaaye``. BTW I sometimes wonder if the beautiful song ``chhaap tilak sab chheeni re`` was meant to wean Hindus were from ``false religion``.

HN#52:

Gulzaar is indeed in a class by himself. Unfortunately, I am not as familiar with his work as of others but he does come across as a master of free-verse, such as ``mera kuchh samaan vapas kar do`` or Rudali`s hauntingly beautiful song, ``dil hoon hoon karay``.

But I would disagree that the Urdu poetry`s only growth ``was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry``. The only thing the Urdu poets sacrificed for films was their persian vocabulary. And romance oozes through many of their creations. Almost every ghazal sung by Talat Mehmood was rich in romance and/or philosophy. Listen for example, to Rajendar Krishan`s ``yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chaandni teri ik ada pe nisaar hai`` in Sangdil or his ``Yoon hasraton ke daagh mohabbat mein dho liye`` or Sahir`s ``kabhi kabhi meray dil mein khyal aata hai``. Even Hindi poets like Bharat Vyas and Shailander have produced wonderful romantic songs like:

sur aadha hi shyam ne saadha
raha radha ka pyaar bhi aadha
aadhe chhalke nayan, aadhe dhalke nayan
rahi man mein milan ki voh baat aadhi

Or this one from Shailendra:

chori chori aa kay piya baithna sirhane
jaan ke main chup rahungi neend ke bahaane
mujhe chhed ke jagaana re sajna
meray sapnon mein aana re sajna.

I could go on and on..

Re: # 57

swarrier, DM:

Since we are onto this - folk, classical music, urdu, hindi etc. Would it be too much to ask you to get into Amir Khusro (Khusrau). No not an article on him, there are many. But sharing some knowledge, here on ``interacts``, which is not commonly known.

What can be more mysterious, spiritual and tittilating as:

``Chap tilak sab cheen .....``